Func_Msgboard: Busting Out The (Valve) Hammer?

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Posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/23 16:59:48

I like Worldcraft 1.6a quite a bit, but the lack of quality rotation is a real time killer. I did some experiments creating a cube and copying it and rotating it 180 degrees and recording everything I had to do to make it a mirror image and it was too much work.
I've done some reading on aguirRe's site on all of the features his map compile tools support and basically I am wondering this ...
1. Does anyone know from A to Z everything it takes to setup Valve Hammer for doing a Quake map? I've tried but get very intimidated by the configuration screens.
2. Is there any major disadvantage in Valve Hammer that is a reason to not switch to it from Worldcraft?
3. Not quite related, but at Func_Msgboard some ppl talk about using Wally over TexMex. Is there any reason to do that, I've not heard that tool talked about here.
4. What texture manager is a good fit with the WAD3 format Hammer uses and how do you convert it.
5. Currently I use CZG's fgd for Worldcraft. Will that still work?
If I can get the answers to these questions, I'll aggregate all of this into a tutorial, post it here and anyone can do with it what they wish -- mirror it, modify it to make a better one, whatever -- I'd just like for this information to be available as it seems like it requires a great deal of learning/setup to get things started with mapping and maybe with the information more readily available that would change.

#1 posted by Vigil [88.112.241.76] on 2006/07/24 00:11:55
1. What you want to do is visit the following site and download Qonverge. As far as I can remember, it has compiling tools, a wad converter and the fgd. I use this myself.
http://www.icculus.org/homepages/r...
2. Yes, there's one big disadvantage. Quoting from Riot's site, There is some legal garbage surrounding this. You see, you're legally allowed to make Quake maps with Worldcraft 3, but not Hammer. <snip> I am also allowed to tell you that the Worldcraft 3's files are totally compatible with Hammer's and that you couldn't tell the difference between a map made in Hammer or Worldcraft even if you had the source files. I assure you, however, that this whole thing is entirely coincidental.
4. I edit the wads while they're still in Quake format using TexMex, then convert them over to Half-Life. See link above for a Quake -> HL wad converter.
5. Any fgd should work just fine. I have been using the Chapters fgd a bit, and have had no problems yet.
I Know What You Mean About Texture Lock In 1.6a
#2 posted by than [220.47.234.129] on 2006/07/24 00:49:05
It's the one thing that really sucks ass about it and I'm thinking of changing over to hammer for any future maps I might make for Quake.
Having said that, I did fire off an email to Valve's Yahn Bernier the other day about WC 1.6a full. I asked if they would consider making it abandonware so we can distribute it freely. I got a quick (short but also it came within 5 mins of me sending the original email) reply saying he as forwarded it to couple of people who might be able to help, which was very promising - however, I can't check my email because I'm on holiday now and I sent it via my work email address. DOH!
Worldcraft 3.0 Vs. Hammer
#3 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/24 00:54:30
Thanks for that information.
I'm looking to do things proper, are there any major differences between Worldcraft 3 vs. Value Hammer?
Does Worldcraft 3 have the ability to rotate things without messing up the textures? Are there any major differences between 3.0 and 3.4 from the perspective of Quake maps. (I'm assuming it's just a name change/license agreement change)
Also, Hammer seems to be free (as far as I can tell). So far, it looks like Worldcraft 3.0 uses the shareware vs. full system of things.
"It's the one thing that really sucks ass about it and I'm thinking of changing over to hammer for any future maps I might make for Quake."
Yeah, it's the ONLY thing I don't like about Worldcraft 1.6a, otherwise it is totally awesome in my experience (maybe there is something GTKRadiant or Quark or maybe even BSP can do better, but my limited imagination can see what it would be.)
Ask Him To Legalize Making Quake Maps With It?
#4 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/24 01:11:14
I did fire off an email to Valve's Yahn Bernier the other day about WC 1.6a full. I asked if they would consider making it abandonware so we can distribute it freely.
I just checked and the Worldcraft 3.3 is the first version with texture rotation.
How can I tell if making Quake maps is permitted with it? The page referenced in the first reply says Worldcraft 3 can be used to make Quake maps, so I'm guess that Worldcraft (any version) can be used for Quake but Hammer (any version) can't be.
So if 3.3 has the texture rotation fix, from a pure Quake perspective I don't think there is a difference.
Maybe if you check your email you might ask the Value people if they might allow Quake maps to be made with it in a 100% unsupported way so they have no obligation to support that use of it.
I Wish There Was An Edit Post So I Could Add This.
#5 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/24 01:12:51
Worldcraft 3.3 Download link:
http://www.fileplanet.com/44990/do...
4) What's New in Version 3.3
* OpenGL 3D Renderer. The real-time renderer is much faster, more robust, and allows for animating visuals in the 3D view.
* Texture Locking. Texture alignment is now preserved through rotation, scaling, and flipping, allowing for the hassle-free construction of odd-angled geometry.
* Powerful Texture Application Features. Automatic texture continuity is guaranteed when lifting and applying from one face to another. Textures can be fit across one face or multiple faces, or aligned to the left, right, top, bottom, and center of faces with a single button click. Textures can be projected onto faces from an arbitrary viewpoint, useful for texturing cliff faces or other irregular geometry. In addition, texture axes are now displayed in the 3D view.
#6 posted by Vigil [88.112.241.76] on 2006/07/24 04:02:39
How can I tell if making Quake maps is permitted with it? The page referenced in the first reply says Worldcraft 3 can be used to make Quake maps, so I'm guess that Worldcraft (any version) can be used for Quake but Hammer (any version) can't be.
That's pretty much it right there. The, ehh, EULA was changed when they renamed WorldCraft to Hammer (version 3.4), so you can't legally make Quake maps with it. The differences between 3.3 and 3.4 are absolutely minimal.
One Word: Visgroups
#7 posted by Kinn [195.92.144.188] on 2006/07/24 04:43:03
That's the only reason I needed for me to make all my Quake maps with Hammer. I can't remember what I had to do to set it up for Quake, but I followed a guide on teh internet, so Google is your friend here. God knows how I would have made Marcher in an editor without some kind of layer functionality or way of logically grouping areas o_O
Hammer Setup
#8 posted by Ankh [80.54.3.203] on 2006/07/24 06:01:52
Here are some pictures showing my hammer setup.
http://republika.pl/quake_1/hammer...
http://republika.pl/quake_1/hammer...
http://republika.pl/quake_1/hammer...
http://republika.pl/quake_1/hammer...
http://republika.pl/quake_1/hammer...
http://republika.pl/quake_1/hammer...
http://republika.pl/quake_1/compil...
http://republika.pl/quake_1/hammer...
I have the compiling tools in the rmf directory together with my bat files for running the tools. Running the compilation from hammer is fast and easy but sometimes I'm using the bat files if the compile time is longer.
You have to change the wad files to wad3 format (in Texmex) if you want to use them with hammer.
Hammer has some slight advantages over worldcraft 1.6a but I don't remeber them anymore . It has also some annoying bugs.
Woldcraft 1.6 has the vis grop functionality if i remember it right.
Ankh
#9 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/24 10:15:10
Those screens were very confusing to me compared to 1.6a. Thanks for that.
(Yeah, VisGroups are incredibly helpful. Helps focus on a specific part of the map.)
Well ... if the differences between Worldcraft 3.3 and Hammer (3.4 and beyond) are trivial I'll just setup a "guide" for Worldcraft 3.3 since it doesn't matter for Quake purposes.
#10 posted by Extruder [62.252.0.7] on 2006/07/24 12:39:59
One feature of the Valve versions of Worldcraft I like, is the "ignore groups" function. When you turn it on you can fiddle about with the individual brushes that make up your groups. This enables you to keep large chunks of map nicely grouped together for tidyness, while still enabling you to go in and tweak without having to ungroup everything.
"mapversion Is Not A Field" ????
#11 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/24 16:12:41
I get "mapversion is not a field" when compiling and running a map using Worldcraft 3.3
Do those of you that use Hammer have to manually edit that out of the .map file before compile or any clues on how to avoid this annoying thing that appears to get added into the final bsp?
You Can Safely
#12 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.97] on 2006/07/24 17:13:37
ignore it.
This Could Have
#13 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2006/07/24 18:43:07
been asked in the mapping thread.
Anyway, no worries. A map made in Worldcraft or Hammer whould contain nothing that would betray what editor you used. So, the EULA is mainly so other dev studios can't use Hammer for their games (correct me if I am wrong). It's smoother and much speedier than WC1.6(a or b).
Wc 1.6
#14 posted by bambuz [193.167.3.24] on 2006/07/25 04:53:04
has the ignore groups function too, press g.
I originally found this when I named vis groups and places like "flag room" made the editor go weird. :)
Never Knew That!
#15 posted by than [220.47.234.129] on 2006/07/25 10:44:57
does it work with entities? I'd love to be able to delete brushes from entities without having to copy properties, move to world, edit, then make back into func and paste properties.
copy and paste entity properties is something else I noticed recently - another feature lacking in many other editors. Doesn't copy flags though :(
Copy And Paste Entity Properties ???
#16 posted by Ankh [80.54.3.203] on 2006/07/25 11:04:00
"copy and paste entity properties"
What do you mean exactly? Is it possible to copy all properties from one entity to another in one step? How?
Like This...
#17 posted by than [220.47.234.129] on 2006/07/25 12:22:06
Go into the entity properties dialogue and click the copy button :)
When you select another entity, you press paste, and the properties are copied across.
As I mentioned, it doesn't copy flags, just the basic properties. I haven't experimented with it enough to know whether it adds/deletes keys/values or overwrites entity types etc. but If I want to copy the properties of a func door that makes machine sound, is named door1, has speed 50, damage 5, lip 8... then that all works fine. This is in 1.6a
Hammer
#18 posted by Extruder [62.252.0.7] on 2006/07/25 12:32:59
Well I'm totally sold on using Hammer for Q1 maps! With Aguire's tools there's no problems. Super smooth 3d preview, along with those great texture alignment tools. I recommend it to everyone!
Could Someone Mirror Wc 3.3 In Non-planetcrap
#19 posted by bambuz [213.169.4.84] on 2006/07/26 06:31:14
The old password doesn't work anymore and I won't bother to workaround.
Even with the Worldcraft name, I still have to change my wads to some stupid HL format? What about the old brightness bug?
Ok
#20 posted by bambuz [213.169.4.84] on 2006/07/26 06:59:06
found this
http://www.dhlp.de/world.php3
and Vigil told me it doesn't load quake wads.
#21 posted by DaMaul [62.252.0.7] on 2006/07/26 16:34:05
The texture brightness in Hammer 3.4 seems absolutely fine to me!
Bambuz .... Not Anymore - Quake Adapter For Worldcraft 3.3
#22 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/26 17:02:08
I created a companion package for Worldcraft 3.3 that installs aguirRe's compile tools, a couple of open source .map and a couple of WADs.
For lack of a better name that wasn't taken by something else, I called this the QuakeAdapter for Worldcraft 3.3.
Merely install Worldcraft 3.3 and then install the QuakeAdapter and every hassle of using Worldcraft 3.3 (same issues as Hammer) are eliminated.
Upon starting Worldcraft 3.3 - AFTER installing the adapter - all of your Quake WADs in c:\program files\worldcraft\textures will automatically be converted to the HLWAD format any time you start Worldcraft.
Additionally, the "Mapversion is not a field" error is eliminated (it gets stripped from the .map).
And ... it is pre-broken in. There is no setup involved to set the tools, it is done for you.
I spent a lot of time on it and tested it about 80 times.
To install Worldcraft 3.3:
http://www.quake-1.com/files/devel...
Then install the QuakeAdapter for Worldcraft 3.3:
http://www.quake-1.com/files/devel...
Upon installation, you are ready to go. The ONLY catch is that you must use c:\program files\worldcraft as your Worldcraft folder.
Does this affect Hammer?
It doesn't. Hammer uses not only a separate folder from Worldcraft 3.3, but separate registry entries as well. You can have Worldcraft 3.3 and Hammer on the same machine with no issues.
Does this affect Worldcraft 1.6a?
Unless you use c:\program files\worldcraft folder for Worldcraft 1.6a, the answer is no. Worldcraft 1.6's default install folder was c:\wc2 and it uses different registry entries than either Worldcraft 3.3 or Hammer.
Why Worldcraft 3.3 and not Hammer?
Mainly because Hammer isn't permitted to be used for Quake. Additionally, I don't see any features in Hammer 3.4 that matter to Quake that Worldcraft 3.3 doesn't have. Why go afoul of a license agreement, especially if you can use a version where Quake usage is permitted (but unsupported.).
The perfect rotation and OpenGL acceleration are both in Worldcraft 3.3 and those were the only things I didn't like about Worldcraft 1.6a.
---
Btw, if anyone who takes a look at the setup has any suggestions or comments, let me know. This was at first just an idea. I included 2 .map sources, one from Trinca and one from Zwiffle because the readme.txt files for those 2 maps were very liberal, I would have included more but I'd rather follow what the readme.txt says than make assumptions.
If you discover something that doesn't work, let me know. There shouldn't be anything because I did tons of tests on it and used it several times myself, but live usage > testing, in my experience.
Thanks
#23 posted by KennyJC [62.252.128.18] on 2006/07/26 17:16:49
^^^
Enourmously helpful and saved a lot of time...
That QuakeAdaptor should be put somewhere prominent so that n00bs like me would find it easier :D
Hehe Thanks
#24 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/26 17:23:23
I want to get more feedback first. Yeah, it's pretty sweet and should be solid as a rock.
But I want to see what others have to say, they may have changes or some other sort of feedback I didn't take into consideration.
Sounds Great
#25 posted by Drew [203.87.20.41] on 2006/07/26 18:37:56
like sliced etc.
I'd been thinking about going through that process, but I'm a lazy, lazy man. I don't even properly vis my maps, so you can see my predicament. First thing i'ma do when I get home is set up WC3.3 on my comp with your programs...
Obviously can't provide real feedback, but the idea sounds fucking sick.
Baker
#26 posted by Vigil [88.112.241.76] on 2006/07/27 13:14:50
Does it include the fgd?
Of Course
#27 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/27 14:50:04
It has even has skippy ;)
In fact, in the c:\program files\worldcraft\quaketools folder, it has several utilities.
Works Fine But..
#28 posted by Gib [81.179.73.223] on 2006/07/28 14:47:31
Error creating HLWAD: c:\program files\worldcraft\textures\dkte2.hl... ... details ...
WadConv Texture Toolbox by Eric 'Riot' Lasota.
Syntax: wadconv [-wad2wal] [-wad2tga] [-wad2hl] filename
Loading palette... Done.
Converting wad textures...
Loading directory... Done. Loaded 969 entries.
Converting miptexes...
0: +0lavarock1
1: +1lavarock1
2: +2lavarock1
3: +3lavarock1....... blah blah blah
138: cycped1
************ ERROR ************
Texture too big, shrink it.
Everything else appears to work perfectly, Im guessing I got a texture too big in one of my texture wads to convert properly.
The Textures Are Convert By Qonverge ...
#29 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/28 16:08:58
... which says in the readme "Don't use WADs with over 1024 textures. Don't use textures bigger than 512x512."
If someone knows of a utility that converts WAD2s to WAD3s that doesn't have this limitation, let me know and I'll change it.
I might write a workaround that extracts the textures from the WAD and checks each lmp's dimensions and removes them from the WAD, but that would be a lot of work.
If the texture dimension limit an inherent weakness of the WAD3 format or just of the Qonverge utility?
(I don't know of a WAD3 texture manager to check this out myself.)
Align: World And Face
#30 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/08/03 04:29:07
From Hammer help:
"Align: World and Face
These checkboxes allow you to set the texture alignment style for the selected faces. World alignment causes textures to be aligned according to world coordinates (if you're familiar with versions of the editor before 3.3, this was the standard behavior). Face alignment uses the coordinates of the face as a basis for alignment."
I have made much mess using this feature. It changes the texture alignment in a way I don't understand quite right (maybe I'm dumb).
Could anyone explain how it works?
I Think...
#31 posted by Blitz [63.97.37.210] on 2006/08/03 13:12:38
You generally want to stick to world alignment. The only time I think you'd ever have to use face alignment is on a rotated crate or something of that nature. But I could be wrong as I haven't used the old Hammer in some time.
Hammer 4.3
#32 posted by . [70.224.202.201] on 2006/08/14 19:32:07
Anyone ever have resource problems after applying a texture? I get a Windows message stating my system resources are low. Sure enough, Hammer is using 400MB of my 1GB. My pagefile is on a drive with at least 65GB free, the other 2 partitions have at least 6GB free.
Any idea what to do?
Simple Solution
#33 posted by than [220.47.234.129] on 2006/08/14 19:42:48
Reduce the levels of undo from 50 to 10 and tell it not to show the warning. It should be fine after that.
same with all versions of worldcraft and hammer...
Fgd File Question
#34 posted by Ankh [80.54.3.203] on 2006/08/15 00:55:37
Would it be possible to change the fgd file in a way that entities would be assigned to specified visgroups upon creation? For example every new light entity would be assigned to the "lights" visgroup when created. The same with monsters and other point entities. Maybe this could be done with triggers also.
Not 100% Sure
#35 posted by than [220.47.234.129] on 2006/08/15 10:30:39
but I reckon not :/
You should just use shit+drag clone as much as you can bear, the visgroups are kept unless you group (ctrl+g) something that has a visgroup assigned, or make it into an entity.
I pretty much never create new lights after I've got one or two in the level - just clone drag them around and tweak values as neccessary. If you have certain types of lights in your level that are a reccuring feature then cloning is perfect anyway :)
Sometimes I do group lights so that I can tweak the values of many without having to select them all individually. Unfortunately, I think you need to ungroup them to do this, then regroup when you are done, which loses the visgroup data. Maybe g works?
Er, And By G
#36 posted by than [220.47.234.129] on 2006/08/15 10:33:20
I meant "ignore groups". Perhaps ignore groups keeps the whole group selected at first and lets you alter the brightness of all the lights in the group without having to ungroup first and regroup later.
Whoa
#37 posted by bambuz [213.169.28.209] on 2006/08/15 12:56:40
tell me more tips when you use wc...
I didn't know about shift-drag, i always hit ctrl-c ctrl-v like mad!
Sorry
#38 posted by bambuz [213.169.28.209] on 2006/08/15 13:00:47
in wc, the proper term is indeed shit-drag as you said
Ankh
#39 posted by ijed [201.236.125.212] on 2006/08/16 09:34:04
I'm modifying the qouth fgd at the moment and I've checked about ~three different styles of .fgd format and I'd guess setting the visgroup inside the entity definitions is impossible. Its your basic system (hauntingly familiar of raw .html (cascades)) and not too difficult to get the old breadbox round; but there seems to be no way of modifying how objects are created - though you can change how they are viewed in the editor.
#40 posted by Ankh [80.54.3.203] on 2006/08/16 11:45:56
thanks for the answers. Looks like I will have to stick with drag cloning (which I'm already using but not in that extent).
Thanks A Lot Baker! :D
#41 posted by born4trance [24.132.40.175] on 2006/09/02 08:06:42
i'll be damned. Your QuakeAdapter does the trick.. You must know i've been using Worldcraft as my first Quake Map/level editor, and i've been searching the net for better working alternatives.. I've been using QME 3.x, Qoole, Thread and Quark, but i liked Worldcraft most because of its simplicity. Now today, i found this page, and i'm damn happy i found it!
So, once again you did it. I'll definetely keep an eye on you... atleast, i'll try :o)
As a little suprise i'll share the two DM maps i've ever made, using Worldcraft 1.6a .. all enjoy :-) http://members.chello.nl/j.leijten...
For now, thanks a lot and see you around! =)
/b4t
Thanks
#42 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/02 16:58:31
I got very frustrated with WC 1.6's lack of rotation w/o messing up the textures and the later versions of Worldcraft were a pain with the need for constant texture conversions.
Feedback
#43 posted by ijed [201.236.130.134] on 2006/09/04 10:47:17
ok, I finally tried it out and nearly everything runs perfectly, apart from the aforementioned texture limitation problem ("over 1024 textures in a WAD, you are insane!") which means its not easy to use many different wads (ie. splitting them into two, three or even four pieces), including nehahra and my own project wad (though that'll definately be shrinking alot). the other problem is that the compilers call the log by default everytime a portion of vis is completed - which slows it down a huge amount (i'd guess x3-x4 though this behavior can be disabled)- in the readme you say its bengt's tools but to be honest I didn't check which versions.
Since I'm in the middle of something I don't want to go through the process of reconversion (since loading a .map in 3.3 makes it incompatible with 1.6 (most likely an easy fix editing within the .txt of the mapfile)). However this is a huge leap forward when you consider 1.6 has been around and used for almost as long as quake itself - great work.
As to all the other tools and adaption systems; they worked perfectly, possibly the only gripe that could crop up is having base directory as c:/program files/worldcraft but since its such a small utility to move I can't see anyone complaining.
All in all, a very useful set of tools that will eliminate the headaches from alot of mappers lives, I salute you.
Ijed
#44 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/05 02:55:41
All in all, a very useful set of tools that will eliminate the headaches from alot of mappers lives, I salute you.
Thank you. I appreciate the feedback I have been getting on this.
#45 posted by Napalm [80.134.9.181] on 2006/10/20 03:40:43
Absolute Newbie question. Whenever I run the map all the textures are missing. What am I doing wrong?
Other than that it seems to work great.
Thanks alot for this.
Sounds Like...
#46 posted by Blitz [63.97.37.210] on 2006/10/20 07:32:47
Your map doesn't have its worldspawn properties pointing at the .wad you're using to make your level. What editor are you using?
#47 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/10/20 08:05:01
Napalm setup Quake directory in program!!?!?!
I Found Out What The Problem Was.
#48 posted by Napalm [80.134.9.181] on 2006/10/20 08:57:13
I am using Baker's Worldcraft3.3 Quake fix and it turns out you need to have your Quake Directory somewhere in c:\ (i.e. c:\Quake for example) otherwise it can't write the GFX from the wad into the BSP.
You Can Also
#49 posted by bambuz [213.169.29.130] on 2006/10/23 08:38:57
have the wad in the same dir as your compiler and the map file... or something like that. don't remember if the wad had to have the same name as the map too or if it was specified to qbsp.
Vb6 Runtime Link For Win32
#50 posted by dingo [66.93.3.72] on 2010/06/06 12:41:56
this requires vb6 runtime for win32 systems:
http://download.microsoft.com/down...

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