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Posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/12/01 00:16:30

Someone named Michael Rennie has ported Winquake to Flash. It has been bundled up with the shareware episode, so you can play all of episode 1 in your browser using mostly tolerable mouselook controls (click and hold to mouselook.) Read more at Quaddicted.
Play Here: http://www.quaddicted.com/engines/...
Source Code: http://github.com/mkr3142/QuakeFla...
Compile Info: http://github.com/mkr3142/QuakeFla...
Thanks to Spirit for the original story and Baker for finding the source code.

Whoa
#1 posted by Zwiffle [66.170.5.18] on 2009/12/01 01:38:25
That is all
Total Convert Into An Audience For Your Maps
#2 posted by Baker [99.30.141.155] on 2009/12/01 05:16:02
Quake platforms:
Desktop: Windows, Mac, Linux
Consoles: PSP, Wii, Nintendo DS
Phones: iPhone, maybe others
Web Plug-Ins: Flash, Silverlight
Most Quake maps get an audience of maybe 50-400 because someone has to buy Quake. A no strings attached free download would get a far larger audience and a Flash version would increase the ease of access substantially.
If it were a standalone download, a great map could have an audience far higher (think Mac OS X alone which severely lacks in game choices to begin with).
Example of a near total conversion (has a couple of Quake sounds remaining) was Kurok:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOW...
/End subliminal message
Woah.
#3 posted by Shambler [86.25.167.239] on 2009/12/01 11:34:58
You bitches need to get on this like niggaz getting on a ho.
For once Baker is right, this could be a really significant event, for the obvious reasons of accessibility. Get this p1mped out right and you've got a lot bigger audience.
I don't know any of the technical nor legal details about utilising the rest of Quake, nor about custom content for that / for shareware alone but I think this is worth following up a lot. This Rennie guy should be welcomed with open arms and worked with.
P.S. Control remapping doesn't work for mouse buttons but surely that shit can be ironed out.
P.P.S. Spirit I hated flash for years too and still think it's often used pointlessly - but NOT for in-browser games, this is a perfect use. There's a world of difference between a site that's been made user-inimical by pointless flash, and using flash to play a game. BTW where did you find some of the choads on your comments page?? Jeez...
Absolutely Agree
#4 posted by SleepwalkR [92.229.61.226] on 2009/12/01 11:43:59
with Shambler, the cock whore. This is an awesome achievement, and what is most surprising is how well this performs - my laptop's fans didn't even spin up during the demo. Great stuff! Now once Flash supports 3D acceleration, hopefully though OpenGL, we can port Fitzquake to Flash as well!
#5 posted by Baker [99.30.141.155] on 2009/12/01 12:36:18
I'm working through the very rough grunt work here ...
http://forums.inside3d.com/viewfor...
Very Cool Tech Demo
#6 posted by sock [92.249.164.198] on 2009/12/01 12:52:03
That was awesome, I seriously did not think flash could do 3D applications very well. My only problem is having to press down LMB all the time to move around, otherwise I like!
Uhm
#7 posted by Spirit [141.22.131.105] on 2009/12/01 15:15:51
It does load the whole chunk at once, right?
Streaming gamedata on demand would be needed to make this useful (and not killing the host). I had the biggest german game mag make a tiny hidden link and got 50GB traffic on that day.
Also, you cannot store much data locally, correct? Everything would be needed to be downloaded each time.
How big are savegames? Could you store them as those stupid Flash objects?
Last but not least, Flash performance on Linux is laughable.
Save Games And Config.cfg Saves
#8 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2009/12/03 04:23:18
I had messaged Michael Rennie and he emailed me back and told me that in fact save games DO save and config.cfg does save as a "flash cookie".
That's Pretty Wild
#9 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/12/03 04:42:08
it just sucks that it takes a couple of minutes for the thing to load each time (i'm guess it's downloading the whole game? iirc, stock quake with nothing else is like 50-60mb?)
#10 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2009/12/03 05:09:25
If you save it locally, it loads very quickly. It is more a measure of your bandwidth.
For a moment, pretend that there is no shareware license agreement prohibiting this ...
Imagine opening pak0.pak and stripping out E1M1 thru E1M8 plus start. And then putting a single map or maybe 2 in there.
It would load rather quickly.
Now imagine mouselook not requiring you to hold the mouse down but rather moving you in the direction the mouse is placed.
Or imagine the top-down perspective DarkPlaces games (about 10 of them have been made or partially made), like the side scroller Quake.
That's an easy engine modification.
http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtop...
I personally believe the potential implications of what Michael Rennie has done is huge. And this port is 10/10 on a quality scale -- it's not like it is some perma-beta with dozens of non-working features.
It isn't immediately obvious to most people the possibilities to this because most people are going to compare it to playing Quake on the desktop.
But there is 11+ years of Quake modding history ... the engine, the QuakeC, the mapping.
This is like a lump of clay. If you have an imagination, it can be molded and shaped.
I'm not claiming I have an imagination, but I can envision someone having one.
Attack Of The Killer Trees!
#11 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2009/12/03 20:25:13
http://www.quake-1.com/docs/flashq...
Flash Quake compiling thread:
http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtop...
#12 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2009/12/04 04:08:55
of course it's just openquartz, but the concept is now proven. Are there any (true) Total Conversions out there that are good quality? Xmen was decent from what I remember, though it is (or was) commercial. What about QuakeRally? Was that a TC or did it use some quake assets?
Also:
#13 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/12/04 04:16:28
might be worthwhile to try using one of the improved engines that has a software renderer. Aguirre's quake is one, tyrquake is another i think, and maybe there is a frikquake?
X-Men: The Ravages Of Apocalypse
#14 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2009/12/04 15:35:27
XMenRavages.swf:
http://www.quake-1.com/docs/flashq...
Quake Rally wasn't a total conversion. Actually X-Men: The Ravages of Apocalypse wasn't quite either but I null.wav'd out the id1 Quake sounds for the Flash compile.
Software engines:
aguirRe Quake has .pcx skybox support, enhanced capacity, and can deal with rendering more surfaces.
Aside from that I can't really think of any interesting software renderer engines, but no doubt I'll add some niceties in (cvarlist / cmdlist / etc).
Truely what needs to happen is an "OpenGL" Flash Quake engine. Of course it wouldn't be "OpenGL" but using a Flash 3D API (there seem to be multiple ones).
Which I don't really know much about at this point, but here is one:
http://www.streamhead.com/tutorial...
#15 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.91] on 2009/12/04 17:44:35
Oh, you got to check out Makaqu. It is a fantastic software engine (without no raised limits I guess).
Makaqu
#16 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2009/12/04 18:07:03
I tried it once. Couldn't figure out what was so great about it, but maybe my memory is wrong and it was some other engine.
I'll peek around in www.quaddicted.com/engines and try it sometime.
Makaqu Cont ...
#17 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2009/12/04 18:09:42
Was that the engine that used to be hosted at quakesrc.org/hell's kitchen or something like that. I'm thinking I'm wrong on the engine name and it was something else.
Actually, I don't think I tried Makaqu but had tried another software renderer engine with interesting ideas.
#18 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.91] on 2009/12/04 18:25:56
Nah, Makaqu is "the Dreamcast engine". It's got nice shadows on models and usability things.
#19 posted by stevenaaus [110.20.49.150] on 2009/12/20 12:18:38
Anyway... this thing is fairly useless imho.
Just a little rant against flash. I installed flash block for firefox, and it's great to block out the hoards of obnoxious ads.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/f...
#20 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/12/20 14:57:19
It's useless because you don't like flash? Doesn't sound logical.
Its Not Very Good IMO Because
#21 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.53.24] on 2009/12/20 17:01:49
there seems to be input and sound delay.
Which kinda sucks! Apart from that I love it, and when I finally get round to making my "Uber Quake Maps" website for my portfolio I would love to embed a playable version of a couple of them into the site :)
But the input delay on my sys is a bit of a bummer :( And the sound delay :((
#22 posted by stevenaaus [110.20.37.205] on 2009/12/20 20:44:12
Flash is great really. I bought machinarium the other day (bloody bloody tricky thing&^%$), first linux game i've paid for in years.
It's the constant ads everywhere i don't like. And when it's slowing down your almost-light-speed hardware because it's such a resource hog.
#23 posted by metlslime [98.248.107.212] on 2009/12/21 00:39:19
instead of flash-block, try ad-block. I have the same problem with multiple flash ads slowing down my computer, and the blame is squarely on the people making the ads. There's no incentive to optimize your ad when it's going to go on someone elses's website alongside 3 other flash ads from other companies.
@Ricky: Sound Delay = Gone
#24 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2009/12/21 02:44:14
Michael Rennie made a change a couple of days ago to either reduce or eliminate the sound delay:
http://cloud.github.com/downloads/...
He also added volume control (volume cvar, in other words the volume slider works).
Can't tell you about the input delay, but I'm trying to think of ways that the mouse input can be improved.
Furthermore, although there isn't a Flash 3D API version of this, I may end up trying to port Spike's 24-bit color software renderer in FTEQW to Flash. This would mean that, among other things, a Half-Life type of map could be utilized. (FTEQW's software render is neat, it can even do decals, heh).
That Seems A Lot Better, But
#25 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.53.24] on 2009/12/21 02:53:46
I have to hold mouse 1 down all of the time to get the mouselook to work. So I cant fire with the mouse. And when I press Ctrl+one of the w,s,a or d keys, it closes my browser!
Not sure the exact combo that does that.
If I could get past the mouse problem it would be perfect! The sound + input delay has gone :D
Mouse
#26 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2009/12/21 03:05:44
Quake has 2 methods of handling the mouse:
1. Normal: It actually captures the mouse pointer and re-centers it in the middle of the Quake window constantly.
2. DirectInput (Windows): Direct mouse input capture; no need to recenter mouse.
I don't know a ton about Flash but I imagine that Flash has no mechanism to "capture" or relocate the mouse pointer (nor would someone want Flash to be able to do this! Imagine annoying Flash ads using that.)
So the traditional ways that Quake handles the mouse aren't available.
I'm wondering if there isn't another way to handle the mouse input ... but no time to play around with that at the moment.
Ya
#27 posted by meTch [69.183.58.210] on 2009/12/21 20:58:04
when the mouse pointer reaches the ends of the computer screen it makes you stop turning
a mouse capture dealio would be great
#28 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2009/12/22 07:03:27
Mouse capture is impossible. Flash doesn't support this since it is a security risk.
And it appears capturing mouse movement when the mouse isn't over the Flash window is impossible.
But I just tried something that makes things a lot better.
Apparently capturing MOUSE2 is a non-starter, Flash doesn't support that since some platforms don't have a mouse 2.
Mouse wheel capture is possible, doesn't seem to be implemented in Flash Quake.
And Ricky's CTRL + W etc are browser shortcut keys like CTRL + Q = quit.
Less Annoying Mouse Aiming Version ...
#29 posted by Baker [65.60.178.244] on 2009/12/22 14:34:52
http://www.quake-1.com/docs/flashq...
Source: http://www.quake-1.com/docs/flashq...
Interesting
#30 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.53.24] on 2009/12/22 14:50:19
Getting warmer methinks. Problem is that if you turn say left, then left, then left, and left again for example the mouse goes off the end of the screen.
Also I was getting a very jerky mouse movement.
A bit like input lag but more just jerky.
I read what was said about it being impossible to lock the mouse into a flash object for security reasons, and I thik that is a shame. But I can see why it is like that also.
In an ideal world the solution would be that the mouse pointer re-appears when the player accesses the menu or the console. So when you press escape, you are free to close the window.
Platforms +1
#31 posted by Baker [99.54.146.62] on 2010/01/05 09:22:44
Google Android Quake (Motorola Droid)
http://code.google.com/p/glesquake...
Developed by Jack Palevich, ironically who is the developer of the original Direct3DQuake, haha.
Molehill
#32 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/03/17 07:50:49
Flash is getting a hardware-accelerated 3D in an upcoming version. Code name is "Molehill", and it's basically a new API that is backed by OpenGL or D3D depending on the platform.
http://www.adobe.com/newsletters/e...
This means that anything you wanted to do with Quake in flash could now be done with hardware-accelerated graphics. Picture Fitzquake or DirectQ quality graphics and framerate in flash.
Porting could begin now with the beta code available. I haven't touched it yet because it already takes like 10 different package installs just to compile the current flash quake (cygwin, flashdevelop, alchemy, flex, java, etc...) and I haven't had much time to bother with it.
Does That
#33 posted by nitin [124.168.200.68] on 2011/03/17 09:56:16
mean that sites that use flash willy nilly will also load up faster?
I Wouldn't Count On A Good Implementation
#34 posted by megaman [88.66.17.14] on 2011/03/17 10:09:37
the new flash with d3d support crashes if you switch on "break on error" in the debug panel ;-)
#35 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/03/17 18:30:05
nitin: it would only speed up rendering, not loading. And it will only benefit flash applets that are (re-)written to use the new API.
Thanks
#36 posted by nitin [124.168.200.68] on 2011/03/18 06:35:04
not much to expect on that front then.
Nitin:
#37 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/03/18 08:03:37
adblock plus takes care of most of those issues for me.
Will Look Into That
#38 posted by nitin [124.168.200.68] on 2011/03/18 08:56:42
thanks!
Metl
#39 posted by nitin [124.168.200.68] on 2011/03/18 09:14:33
you just made my day mate, cheers! Works great.
For Flash
#40 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/03/18 14:33:28
Blitting is the new hotness.
Someone Used Molehill On Q3 Already, Apparently:
#41 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/03/31 10:16:01
http://q3fl.impulse12.com/
Also includes a lengthy discussion of the issues using Molehill for GLQuake and Quake 3.
I'm Sure Flash Will Eventually ...
#42 posted by Baker [69.223.185.127] on 2011/04/01 03:51:11
... be a decent alternative to 3D single player games but they are still ironing out the problems.
They need to do something reasonable with mouse capture for starters (still not available really) and it is tough to deal with the long download times (although the game data for Quake based games isn't internet optimized.)
Games like Runescape do a pretty good job, but have to have some sort of Java backend layer to do the networking.
I'm sure Flash will eventually be an FPS capable platform. They clearly want to go there.
I Hope Not
#43 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/04/01 03:59:09

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