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Posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/21 23:25:17

I was looking at the oil rigs in the ocean link that was posted in inspiration. This made me think of the question:
What kind of lesser known maps are out there (for Quake 1)?
Any Mars maps? It looks as if the Quake palette would support such a thing.
Other than Source of Power that was reconstructed by Aguire from an older mod, I can't recall seeing another "ocean map" or even a map with an island except for fc1 that had the boat on the river. I've seen a couple of "canyon style" maps.
Are there any particularly unique lesser known maps with themes other than the 3 or 4 styles we normally see -- which are great, by the way -- base/castle/enclosed lair/futuristic/rocky.
I'm largely referring to single player. I'm sure most have seen the mockups of someone making a house or fort or even a kitchen or huge toilet for a DM map.

KJSP1
#1 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2005/09/22 02:19:16
I don't know if it's "lesser known" but I always thought that KJSP1 by killjoy was very unique in terms of how it deviated from the normal SP style.
For one thing you start out in an ocean/lake thing an climb the sand to shore, and traverse the outside of a stark white temple. It's a pretty cool intro that has always stuck in my mind.
Hmmmm Yes...
#2 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.54] on 2005/09/22 02:20:39
Another uber-specific and inward looking "discussion" topic, just what this board needs.
But In The Interests Of Answering It...
#3 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.54] on 2005/09/22 02:35:38
...so we can all swiftly move on:
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha...
Basically if you get away from the standard themes, you usually find either clean looking / sci-fi looking bases, temples of various genres, and outdoor maps. There's a couple in there that are different because of the design, rather than the theme, though.
A Moon Map
#4 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/22 02:45:27
http://web.archive.org/web/1998120...
Back when Quake was new, there were an enormous amount of things made. I wasn't playing Quake back then and mostly played multiplayer until recently.
I would wonder if most Quake players are even aware of the existence of a lot of these things.
I Can Imagine ...
#5 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/22 03:49:54
>Another uber-specific and inward looking
>"discussion" topic, just what this board needs.
this isn't exactly the most interesting topic for mappers (been there, done that, discussed it to death, I'm sure).
I'm asking this question because those here know more about this topic than anyone else.
Rest assured, my interest are to make it so this question need not be asked in the future.
I'm not trying to bore the map making/reviewing/playing elites to tears. heheh
My interests are in categorizing the most interesting maps and make some reference material -- after I play them, of course ;) heh
And ...
#6 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/22 03:52:17
I have read many of the reviews at Team Shambler/Underworld Fan/etc.
I was just wondering if there are more obscure or older/stranger maps of interest that most people don't think of or are not well known.
Bleh
#7 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/09/22 04:30:15
Before Shmabler's site there was Matt Sefton's site
http://www.planetquake.com/spq2/qu...
and before that there was pure crap.
I remember sitting at my school downloading maps from cdrom.com onto a 1.4" floppy and bringing home, and they were unanimously terrible. It wasn't really until late 97 or so that people started making decent maps.
In particular I remember the horror that was the Aftershock pack (which led me into mapping, so yay!) which came packaged with ~60 or so custom levels. One was a giant box with the pink/black checkerboard textures (which renders as HOM in GLQuake). Another was a box that spanned the entire grid with lava at the bottom and thin walkways across it and lots of shamblers. Other highlighs included ghosts.bsp, which was pitch black, filled with monsters and slime, and no exit, and swamp.bsp which was a lovely creation of vertical water brushes and flying fish.
Another thing you might (not) want to check out is After The Fall
http://www.planetquake.com/atf/
a total conversion which is pure shock and awe because oh my god it's so terrible I'm crying just by thinking of it. Sound effects that sound like a lewd phonecall, textures made from photos of motherboards, the completely nonsensical bolo gun... BIKER BITCH NOO!
So what I'm saying is that the only thing that is worth checking out really is the stuff listed on Matt's and Shagbler's site, and you can find plenty of original stuff there too.
Czg Lol
#8 posted by Vondur [195.128.95.36] on 2005/09/22 04:51:09
i was bringing the levels from cdrom.com on a 1,4" floppy from work too!
i remember i needed 10 floppies to bring zerstorer home goddammit!
and matt sefton's site helped alot to separate shit from the tits :)
Bah
#9 posted by nitin [138.217.5.178] on 2005/09/22 05:55:25
I was using my good old 14.4k modem to download stuff back then.
Once sefton stopped his site (and moved on to unreal and q2), I went away from the quake scene. When I accidentally came across TEAMShambler 3 yrs later, I was pleasantly surprised.
Btw
#10 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.54] on 2005/09/22 07:00:49
That list wasn't supposed to be retro-p1mpage, just that it's the easiest place for me to find styles of maps.
I remember Lunar Base....
Oh God
#11 posted by Shallow [213.143.16.244] on 2005/09/22 10:07:39
Another thing you might (not) want to check out is After The Fall
I'd somehow managed to completely forget that. Or more accurately, scour the horror from my mind. PC Zone put it on one of their cover disks without giving their dear readers any sort of warning whatsoever, and I never bought another issue after that*.
Thanks for reminding me of the pain czg.
(* Probably a lie)
Was That
#12 posted by Text_Fish [194.72.70.124] on 2005/09/22 11:20:34
the coverdisk dedicated purely to Quake?
That was such a useful CD! It introduced me to such wonders as Horror Quake and Painkiller.
/tangent
#13 posted by Vigil [85.76.3.38] on 2005/09/22 14:53:58
Aftershock pack
Was this the one that you had to pay money for? I remember seeing a map pack for Quake in the local gaming store many years ago.
Anonca Base
#14 posted by Scragbait [67.68.0.212] on 2005/09/22 14:58:04
Anonca Base is evidence that simple maps can have a lot of atmosphere. It was a strange, chilly, blue weird map with a layout that seems DooMish. It has it's own flavour.
I would say that with the exception of A Place of Belonging and a few others, maps didn't start approaching id quality until the Matt days.
Stumbling upon TSQLR was a pleasent surprise and made me want to actually make maps.
A couple other maps come to mind - an ugly but unusually atmospheric one called Lighthouse which used custents. There was something about those long halls with the noisy rotating shafts that drove the light that was cool. Very crude mapping though and the highlight was a moving light ent to simulate the panning beam from the lighthouse.
Shambler already listed it but Soulstice in Elek's Tide of War Nehahra expansion is phenominally original in atmosphere, environment and gameplay.
I forget the name but there was this small base-tech map with non-id textures that at the very end, dropped you into open water with the ruins of some sort of sunken city or complex. It's a weird end that is kind of different and novel.
Neil Manke's maps are off the typical theme but they don't necessarily appeal to everyone. I didn't mind them although they could be ugly looking.
#15 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/09/22 15:33:42
I forget the name but there was this small base-tech map with non-id textures that at the very end, dropped you into open water with the ruins of some sort of sunken city or complex.
Sounds like it's Speedy's SPD_v2 map.
My World Is Your World
#16 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.212] on 2005/09/22 20:34:03
quite original. Hard as hell though.
Sefton
#17 posted by Lunaran [67.129.250.254] on 2005/09/22 20:48:46
SPQ2 is what got me back into mapping. I stopped after the first version of THRED because I thought carving was the only way to change textures on faces since the editor only worked that way. SPQ2 made me give Radiant build #42 a shot and I'm glad it did - before that I was content making spaceships in DOS 3DS2.
Always The Nostalgia :)
#18 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/09/22 22:00:34
I remember making my first map in aftershock's toolbox/ deathmatch maker pro thingie. Quite unsophisticated, but it taught me the basics!
Bleh
#19 posted by Levelworm [67.68.73.162] on 2005/09/22 22:41:02
It seems lots of the maps are lost, I've checked fileplanet(anyone hate the new interface?) and gamers.org, maybe I should check 3dgamer too...
Anonca Base...
#20 posted by metlslime [69.181.44.163] on 2005/09/22 23:14:20
anonca base 3... and that other aztec level by rob marten...
Most Maps Aren't Lost
#21 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/22 23:18:05
Best way to find maps --->
www.google.com
Search for: mapname.bsp (like aerowalk.bsp)
If your map doesn't appear, then ...
Search for: mapname.zip (like aerowalk.zip)
If that fails:
Search for: +mapname +quake +map (like +aerowalk +quake +map)
I've rarely run into a map I couldn't find.
Hehe
#22 posted by voodoochopstiks [85.224.214.72] on 2005/09/22 23:37:52
Back when I was really young, (10), I brought Deathmatch Maker home with me from the store, I found things pretty cool but I couldn't figure out for the life of me how to link two two boxrooms together, it was seemingly impossible :D. I could have been the maker of kill_box. I've come a bit since then.
Spd.zip
#23 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/22 23:50:32
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
I had never seen that one before. Innovative as hell.
(I guess it was reviewed at the Underworld fan site and given a 12/20. I probably skipped it due to that.)
That Anonca Base map was strange. More like a Doom map.
Lost Maps
#24 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.20] on 2005/09/23 00:20:01
FFS! This is why I have most available SP maps in my archive...
http://www.quaddicted.com/componen...
^don't forget to mark "Name:" & "Description:"!
If you can't find a map there, but got it on your harddisk or somewhere in the web, then tell me about it, PLEASE!
Gah
#25 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/23 01:03:24
I forgot. I use your archive like this, hope you don't mind ;)
Shows 1000 at a time, heh.
http://www.quaddicted.com/componen...
Fiffy Maps
#26 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/23 01:19:29
I noticed that in your archive, the sole maps you have comments on are the Fiffy maps.
Those are certainly old skool, but he made them in 1996 when everyone was doing "box style".
Would you believe his AOL members website in the 1996 readme.txt's STILL WORKS.
That guy deserves a medal for continuity.
Fiffy
#27 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.54] on 2005/09/23 02:24:53
Deserves to be shot.
By SPD you mean this right> http://www.planetquake.com/teamsha... ?
Second about the Anonca base ones. Not that great though.
People should keep making innovatively styled maps I reckon. Most mapping these days is good enough to pull off some high quality weird shit.
Fiffy
#28 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/23 03:03:06
Those were "action maps" made back in 1996 when all the Quake maps were primitive. You can't fault a guy for operating within his time.
The things you can do with map making tools today are incredible, but those tools and the documentation didn't exist back then.
I read something about it taking DAYS to compile maps (vis? or was it light that was REAL slow on old computers) back in the old days.
They were working with stone-age tools back then. They didn't have vertex manipulation and all the cool stuff.
Here's The Problem:
#29 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.0.141] on 2005/09/23 03:04:42
I reckon the number one reason there is not more variety in map themes comes down to the textures that are available for Q1.
The vast majority of textures available in .wad format (both amatuer work and stuff ripped from other games) is either tech or medieval. For the most part the textures available don't stray too far from those themes (except for the occasional diversion which suits the quake palette well, e.g. Egyptian).
Yes, there are a few texture wads floating around which feature other styles, but for the most part, they simply just aren't good enough - artistically and/or technically (i.e. bad conversion jobs, unsuitable palettes, etc).
The Quake palette itself is a large part of the problem. If 250 shades of brown don't suit your intended theme, you might be in trouble. You can get very good results using a different palette and colormap though, so I'm a little surprised more people don't do that.
Actually, I'm really not all that surprised, since you'd need a mod to use a new palette gracefully, and more to the point, it takes a bloody good artist to take advantage of that fact. And with a few notable exceptions in the past, there just hasn't been any fantabulous artists out there dedicated to providing us with wonderful new textures.
No Shambler
#30 posted by Bazzu [195.249.230.57] on 2005/09/23 03:40:33
By SPD he means this: http://www.planetquake.com/underwo...
While I'm Here
#31 posted by Bazzu [195.249.230.57] on 2005/09/23 03:55:26
Does anyone have the few reviews that was made at "TeamFern" some years ago?
Fribbles
#32 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/23 04:33:02
I wasn't aware you could change the palette.
I was looking at recently Open Sourced X-Men mod for Quake 1 and they seemed to be able to do a lot more with the textures than I thought the palette would permit.
Looking at it, they have a palette.lmp sitting in the quake\xmen\gfx folder
What is the best program to edit the lmp files?
I've looked around in the past and this is probably the last Quake mystery I haven't found an answer to.
refs:
(X-Men mod)
http://www.zerogravity.com.au/xmen...
http://www.quaketerminus.com (News source)
Baker - Fiffy
#33 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.20] on 2005/09/23 04:40:07
I just started writing mini reviews/comments on the maps. There are some maps in the "Crap!" category, these are already reviewed. The fiffy maps are just the only maps that I reviewed already and that are no crap in my opinion :D
For easier access to the huge list:
http://www.quaddicted.com/componen...
Changing Lmp Files
#34 posted by Preach [86.129.212.220] on 2005/09/23 04:46:20
I've never been able to get a custom palette to work either. QMe has a few features for working with custom palette, you might wanna grab that, and let us know if you get it to work. Adquedit is probably a good bet for the actual implementation.
The main problem with changing the palette is that all the other models in quake have to use the same palette as the textures do. So unless you choose the colours very carefully you'll have to reskin all the models you want to use. I expect that's always been a bigger sticking point than the technical side of things.
Tried It ... Results ...
#35 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/23 05:43:41
GLQuake doesn't appear to even use the palette or colormap. (I did delete the glquake folder). Switched out the palette; no effect. Tried a couple of different engines, none of them even took notice something changed.
WinQuake did use the palette. Everything looked wrong.
I'm not sure what to make of this.
TexMex, the WAD editor recommended here (and it works great), seems to be hardcoded to force the Quake 1 palette (couldn't find anything useful in options).
So ... it might be very challenging to build a WAD that uses a non-Quake256 color palette.
I Was Doing Something Wrong ... It's Not Workable At All
#36 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/23 06:18:42
Whatever I didn't do to get GL to work right, I fixed.
However, everything from the HUD to textures to models were affected.
It would almost require a total conversion to use any palette other than the standard Quake palette. You'd have to reskin all the models and the remake/redesign HUD elements.
GLQuake
#37 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.129] on 2005/09/23 07:36:42
does indeed use the palette.lmp file; this is e.g. the file that idgamma manipulates. It must be put in the gfx subdir of the current game dir, e.g. id1\gfx. If using pak files, make sure case matches as paks are (like unix) case sensitive.
Also, remember resource search order; first pak files in descending order, then files, then same in basedir (usually id1).
For weird mods that changes the palette, try lomgoat or vile. And don't tell me I didn't warn you ... Gameplay is OK though.
Heh
#38 posted by Tron [203.219.252.192] on 2005/09/23 08:18:19
I remember not long after Q2 came out I stuck the q2 palette into q1 to use q2 textures without having to convert them.
Turned out badly.
Very badly.
.
#39 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/23 08:41:19
I'm a little surprised more people don't do that.
because if you change the palette, you need to have a TC because all the monsters and such will have their skins screwed up because the colours will be different.
that means as well as making new textures, you need to redo all the skins for all the models. have fun. :P
Oh
#40 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/23 08:42:33
not to mention all the UI graphics.
you need to have a TC because should be <you need to have nearly a TC because
Noir Quake
#41 posted by Preach [86.129.212.220] on 2005/09/23 11:41:48
I always reckoned a good, simple mod would be to make a palette with all the same "value" as the original colours, but all as a shade of sepia. That way you could have old black and white quake, or noir quake if you're looking for a catchier name. In theory all the textures should just work straight away like this, they'd look black and white. But then I ran into the same problem that glquake wouldn't load the palette and at the same time discovered my card could do the sepia effect on 3D through the graphics options, so I had a look at how it was for a bit and then forgot about the idea.
But I suppose it would make for a stylised map, and you could convert textures across easier as you'd only have to worry in greyscale. So someone might want to give it a shot, if you figure out what it takes to make glquake load it please say. I thought of a few other ways you could get around the difficulty of using a custom palette. One would be to just tint the palette for effect, or to match the colours or mood of some textures you want to convert more closely. That way the models would all be reasonably well matched, you could do a firey red tint for a hellish map or something. This might end up look crap though, especially if you overdo it to make textures match.
A more conservative, but potentially useful way would be to only change some of the rows in the palette. The two pink/purple rows are pretty safe to change in terms of use by monsters, and the horrible bright blue one near the bottom. You could even have a look at the bottom fullbright row - I'm pretty sure there's a way to make them non fullbright in game, and they aren't really used outside map textures. So if you had textures with a strong colour that's poorly matched in the regular quake pallette, like orange, replacing one of those rows with a row of a suitable shade would probably work well.
If you go down this route, I'd recommend sticking to one colour per row, and to also keep the same pattern of light to dark going. Mainly because when colours get dark, they can get mixed in a lot - the lightest bright blue is rarely used, but the darker tones could quite easily be included in the shadowy recesses of a model. If you replace those colours with a similarly dark tone it'll go unnoticed, fullbright orange in the shadows less so. If the worst comes to the worst and a few models have some ugly pixels, you can fix them in QMe quite easily. From the palette editor right click on the colour you want to get rid of, select replace and then select something that works, it'll replace through the whole skin.
Aftershock
#42 posted by cyBeAr [80.217.112.208] on 2005/09/23 13:56:51
"I remember making my first map in aftershock's toolbox/ deathmatch maker pro thingie. Quite unsophisticated, but it taught me the basics!"
What? Aftershock came with thred and not dmm! Like czg aftershock was what got me into quake mapping, I had done some minor things with doom and then when I saw the aftershock box with screenshots of thred on the back at some silly game expo - I just had to get it because the thought of getting to build levels in full 3d seemed like the most awesome thing ever.
Hmm
#43 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/09/23 17:12:48
I guess I got the aftershock pack and never used the editor included.
Or maybe I did; I was young back then!
Well Yeah
#44 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.0.141] on 2005/09/23 17:26:42
I kinda forgot about that. Changing the palette radically also requires changing the HUD graphics, model textures, pickup textures and every other damn texture in the game to match the new palette.
Which is, of course, precisely the reason more people don't do it.
Now, an engine which allowed you to have abitrary palettes for the HUD, monsters, pickups, level etc would give people much more freedom to change the look of the parts of the game they were willing (and able) to edit.
Thanks Guys...
#45 posted by Levelworm [67.68.73.162] on 2005/09/23 17:45:53
thanks for all the links :P, they really help.
Making A New Palette
#46 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.0.141] on 2005/09/23 18:18:16
Here's how to make a new palette and get it into the game.
Extract the palette from your textures.
This particular method requires Photoshop.
1. Open Photoshop and go File > Automate > Contact sheet.
2. Adjust the document settings to fit all your textures. Set the 'source images' folder to the directory where all of your textures live, then hit ok.
3. Once the contact sheet is ready, go Image > Mode > Indexed color.
4. Then go Image > Mode > color table.
5. Use the SAVE button on that dialogue and save the file as a .PAL file.
You now have your new palette. The next step is to get it into a .wad file with your new textures.
Make the wad file.
You need TexMex this time. TexMex DOES default to the Quake palette, but this will be overriden if there is a PALETTE entry in the wad file.
1. Open TexMex and go File > New.
2. Right click inside the WAD file view and go load > palette.
3. Browse to your new .PAL file and load it.
4. Import your new textures using File > Import.
5. Save the .WAD file.
p.s. go view/preferences and change the Remip method to 'TexMex original'. Its much better than the RemipDLX method.
Export the palette as an LMP file.
While you're still in TexMex, do this:
1. Right click the PALETTE item.
2. Select Export > LMP.
3. Save it as palette.lmp - you MUST use that specific filename.
Generate a colormap from your LMP file.
You must make a colormap for this palette, or your colours will be completely fucked in-game. The only way I know how to do this successfully is using Adquedit. Its a bitch to set up, but assuming you already have it working...
1. Put your palette.lmp somewhere you can find it in Adquedit.
2. Browse to the file in Adquedit. Double click it.
3. It will ask, do you want to make a colormap? You know the answer.
4. Use the default values and hit OK.
5. It should save the colormap into the same directory as the palette.
Make a new PAK file for your palette and colormap.
Use PakScape or whatever you usually use.
1. Make a new PAK file.
2. Make a GFX directory.
3. Import the palette.lmp and colormap into the GFX directory.
4. Save the file as pak2.pak or whatever (you know the rules).
Your pak file is ready to go.
Put the pak2.pak file in your ID1 directory.
If you already have a pak file with a palette inside (e.g. idgamma palette), then rename it or remove it temporarily.
Build a BSP with the new WAD file.
Make a map using the textures in the new WAD file and compile the BSP.
Load that sucker in Quake.
You're done. If you've done everything right, you should be seeing your map with its lovely new palette. Hurrah.
Looking at all those steps, its no wonder people don't do this shit even if you could have a new palette just for the level.
Noir Quake
#47 posted by nitin [138.217.7.49] on 2005/09/23 18:24:55
if anyone made a decent level with that theme, I'd be all over them :)
On another note, so does using IDGAMMA change the palette ? I use it and dont notice too much wrong with how the monsters etc look, in fact I think quake in general looks better and more vibrant in color.
You Rule, Fribbles!
#48 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/23 18:29:41
Nice tutorial.
Nitin
#49 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/23 18:42:10
yeah, idgamma basically just changes the original palette colours for more vibrant ones.
Note:
#50 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/23 21:07:01
you can change/disable the fullbrights by editing colormap.lmp, which is basically a lookup table for the software renderer to calculate light values per pixel. There are 256 columns and 32 rows, so there's an entry for each texture pixel color mixed with each lightmap level. This file is also the place where the 2x overbright lighting of software quake is generated. And you should be aware that the colormap is itself an 8-bit image that uses the same palette that the textures do. So you can see how a completely different palette can truly screw up software quake.
However, this file is totally ignored by glquake (which doesn't have overbright or fullbrights,) and also by any GL engine that does support overbright and fullbrights like fitzquake or darkplaces. So if you edit this file, your changes will not have any effect in a non-software engine.
Also:
#51 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/23 21:16:58
Though the colormap.lmp has the '.lmp' extension, it is not a valid lmp like the rest of the UI graphics, becuase those all have an 8-byte header indicating height and width, and colormap.lmp is just raw data.
So, you could technically open it and save it in any paint program that lets you edit raw files (PSP has this feature.)
Palette
#52 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/04 05:58:20
I think everyone is playing quake with engine mod (fitz, MH, DP etc) that allows independat pal full color textures... so whats the
problem ?
Noir Quake
#53 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/04 06:00:19
if you are using ATi card, u can go to drivers panel and set some funky shader mode (b/w/red or sepia or whatever )
Post #52 Clarification
#54 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/04 06:03:41
independet palette and\or full color textures
Nope.
#55 posted by Kinn [86.136.155.2] on 2005/10/04 11:32:12
I think everyone is playing quake with engine mod (fitz, MH, DP etc) that allows independat pal full color textures... so whats the
problem ?
Couldn't be more wrong.
Just Changing Textures
#56 posted by cyBeAr [80.217.112.208] on 2005/10/04 13:12:07
is hardly the same thing as changing the palette wich applies to more than textures and doesn't involve actualy having to make/edit ltos of content.
Just Changing Textures Is Hardly The Same
#57 posted by Speed@ home [84.204.105.197] on 2005/10/04 18:35:27
but u can get same/better results with fewer problems
Isnt that what u want - use some other set of graffics in color different from what you have in q1 pal.
And you dont have to care about HUD and monster skins, unless you want to change them as well.
If you just want a b&w quake - messing with a pal might be a better option than mass-desaturating (processing textures is ~10 minute job, but extracting all the skins could be tiresome)
But just changing the colors you get "omg too much DOB/DXM" effect
With enhanced engines u can have independent pal per texture (just like 1st Unreal) or use 24\32 bit (just think of the potential of the alpha channel for cool features and effects)
Palette limitation is awkward but u dont have to put up with it nowadays
Speaking of the players
are there any people still without gfx card capable of running something like fizquake or old TQ?
s3virge anyone ?
Or I guess some people prefer to use winquake cause they are very used to it`s pixelated look and color-shift shadows - would they mind using GL engine version to play a good map with custom hi color textures?
How many people dint play something like marcher, just cause it had to be run in a special version of quake
And as you can read from Frib`s and others posts - messing with palette is quite a hassle and it does involve editing lots of content.
Spd
#58 posted by [84.204.105.197] on 2005/10/04 18:50:08
noir quake, thnx ATi
http://www.2and2.net/Uploads/Image...
oh, and funny someone brought up that SPD map as the example of something original
As I recall the end section (flooded one) was made just like an architectural experiment and not meant to be playable.
But then I desided to add it to that bleh-level remake of doom map01, in order to try to re-create the atmosphere I had experienced playing doom - being alone in a weird dangerous world (and hence the text - its written after the text you see in doom2 just before 'Dead simple' level)
pS: ehh its 6am. I hope you could get what I mean
Nope 2.
#59 posted by Kinn [86.128.40.238] on 2005/10/04 21:45:52
How many people dint play something like marcher, just cause it had to be run in a special version of quake
From readme_marcher.txt:
This map was designed primarily for high capacity engines, such as Bengt Jardrup's Win/GLQuake variants, and LordHavoc's DarkPlaces.
However, I have gone to great lengths to ensure that the map is at least playable in FitzQuake, and the original Win/GlQuake
#60 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/05 03:36:00
Well yeah, with packet overflow galore, sound losss, far away geometry dissapearing.
And no skybox too :(
Not your fault sure, just want to point out that marcher does require new engine to be enjoyed. How many whines did you get due to it, Im really curious
Same thing with hi quality textures - you could play map in whatever quake u want and see the textures in q pal, no issues here, just worse visual quality. And playing in some other engine you enjoy the smoothness and viriety of colors. Nothing is wrong.
One minor thing : d/l size increases when you include the hi-color textures with your map. But thats not a big deal, esp if you keep most images 8bit and not 32bit TGAs
The Problem With Hi Quality Textures
#61 posted by nitin [138.217.5.187] on 2005/10/05 04:18:57
everything else, monster skins, weapon skins, etc are still low res and the resulting contrasting effect is not very good.
And
#62 posted by nitin [138.217.5.187] on 2005/10/05 04:19:29
I havent seen a good set of replacement hi quality skins yet.
#63 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/05 04:57:40
there is no contrasting effect, unless you use some totally whacky vibrant colors
it probably all comes down to most quake mappers being purists
stock tex, no code mods
keep the spirit alive! brown for life
colored light must die
everyone who wants it fancy has moved to hl2 or whatever
Speedy
#64 posted by nitin [138.217.5.187] on 2005/10/05 06:50:24
I meant that hi res background textures dont mix well with low res monster and weapon skins.
#65 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/05 07:40:42
its ok. many the games have that
#66 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/05 07:41:00
-the
I Havent Seen A Good Set Of Replacement Hi Quality Skins Yet.
#67 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/10/05 15:54:52
I have ;)
http://www.planetquake.com/pandemo...
Rename them to the proper (=non-tenebrae) naming convention and place in quake\id1\textures\models and using them in QMB, JoeQuake, DP, etc.
Pah
#68 posted by . [69.217.51.68] on 2005/10/05 16:06:22
The only really improved skin is the Wizard, looks great. The rest look worse than the oriignals.
Ogro's A Talented Artist
#69 posted by nitin [138.217.5.187] on 2005/10/05 17:35:40
but only the ogre, the scrag and maybe hte shambler look better.
Ugh
#70 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.115] on 2005/10/05 21:07:59
The high poly models look pretty good. I don't care for the cheesy sharp teeth on some of the models, or Sumo-Ogre, but they are well made.
The skins are another story. They are realy bad, Enforcer and Hell Knight excepted. The skins look jumbled over the wrong polies, stretched out, and the detail work on the body and limbs make little visual sense. On the fiend you have that well defined bicep and then it just blahs out once you get past the shoulder.
He is a good artist, I loved the Caleb skin for one, but on balance these stink.
Speedy
#71 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/10/05 21:11:33
what are color-shift shadows?
However, I Do Recall
#72 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.115] on 2005/10/05 21:12:29
Tenebrae did some weird things with the diffuse textures. They would look washed out. Not oversaturated washed out, but some how less defined in the features. Maybe it isn't Ogro's fault.
Headthump
#73 posted by nitin [138.217.5.187] on 2005/10/05 23:40:29
I remember ogro pimping those on the polyclount forums ages ago. Basically, there were some limitations he couldnt get around (I think he used the original quake skinmaps, but I could be wrong) and it's meant to look better in game.
Still, apart from maybe 3 of those, I wouldnt consider them better, whether it's ogro's fault or tenebrae's.
#74 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/06 01:53:05
Nitin yeah, same old UV maps on the boxy models
And unfortunately they dont work just as replacements for non-tennebra, except scrag and shambler, like you`v said. Cause they are not meant to be used w/o normalmap
wasn`t there some 'Quake skin replacement project' for non-tenebra
Maybe we could do a 'community pack' of q1 skin replacements, if any artist are interested
inert software quake doesn`t lay lightmaps over the textures like gl, it draws lighting by shifting the color of the texture according to the palette, and thats why u get grey texture looking blue-ish-greeny :(
on the up side sw renderer can brighten the textures as well, while lightmaps only darken
Speedy
#75 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/10/06 13:37:07
ah that explains alot, actually -- thanks

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