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Posted by negke [31.18.172.250] on 2013/02/22 01:44:43

Or was it "Asshanding & Dazending"?!
This is a small medieval/realism puzzle map, complete with cramped rooms and oversized furniture. It's based on M.C. Escher's print of the same title, albeit without the visual paradox or any other weird styles for that matter. It's a bit of a blend between my very first Quake map, Scragbait's Fall Cleaning, and Lower Forecourt.
The gameplay is slow and focuses on key-hunting and finding secret areas. Requires a little thinking out of the box at times, but not excessively so. Try to discover, figure out and remember the hint messages.
It has a very open, nonlinear layout with terrible visblocking resulting in a high polycount and the risk of packet overflow on older engines. I recommend Fitzquake or one of its forks, but if you must play it with a vintage port, consider using some corpse removal mod.
Originally, it was supposed to be a quick and simple turtlemappish level to be released on Halloween or Christmas, but it dragged on and I ran into all sorts of technical problems (limit-related) which eventually made it a very frustrating experience - hopefully it won't be for you. Demos are appreciated.
Screenshot
Download
Note: There's quite a bit of compatibilty issues, be sure to check the readme for information. Most importantly, this map does not work with DirectQ 1.9.0 (use 1.8.8(1) instead), and Darkplaces users must set sv_gameplayfix_ q1bsptracelinereportstexture 0.

Of Course
#1 posted by Drew [199.180.99.9] on 2013/02/22 02:55:29
You release a map when I have 2 midterms coming up. Thanks for your ongoing support of the scene (asshole)!
#2 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/02/22 03:12:57
It's not named negkeycony?
rating -1/5 on Quaddicted
Think It Broke? :(
#3 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/02/22 04:37:30
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/103186490...
My play through, but I think it broke at the endish and couldn't complete... maybe I am dumb though!
I really liked playing it though! so many hacks!
#4 posted by digs [46.191.218.198] on 2013/02/22 13:08:10
Very cool and very interesting. I still found three runes and can not move further. Thanks for the map!
W34fruiwehidfsw
#5 posted by DaZ [2.99.127.163] on 2013/02/22 13:14:56
68:40 minutes
2/3 secrets
fuck you negke
Lovely construction and attention to detail as usual in a Negke map. The progression was absolutely horrible though. I was so utterly and completely lost for most of the map, and when I did eventually find the way forward it wasn't a feeling of accomplishment but rather that the level was cheap shotting me in the gonads.
Main issues I had were:
pressing buttons and having no idea what they did.
Seeing doors open but then having to run around half the map trying to figure out how to get to them.
Some architectural details felt like important clues or puzzle elements but ended up just being brush porn.
I think that making rooms feel more unique in their colour scheme would have helped a lot also, I had trouble navigating to where I wanted to go for the entire map.
Oh
#6 posted by DaZ [2.99.127.163] on 2013/02/22 13:16:15
No demo, because I'm not that cruel ;)
Really Interesting And Fun Map
#7 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/02/22 14:03:25
I tested this and although there are a few gameplay problems due to the crampedness, it's a fun map overall with a really great exploratory feel, a few nice little secrets and decent gameplay.
Nice work!
#8 posted by spy [178.88.144.159] on 2013/02/22 15:17:03
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
here is my skill3 demo of me wandering around clueless for ~ 40min
not completed though
very nice map and very negkish
Free Jazz In BSP Format -> Clearly Not A Map For Everyone
#9 posted by negke [31.18.172.250] on 2013/02/22 17:25:23
Like I said, the hint notes (=orange headlines) are important as they hint at the areas where the runes are hidden. Once you've found a rune, the corrsponding hint will deactivate, so if you come across a 'silent' one, it means you've already solved that part and can ignore it. If you're lost, return to the hint notes, and start again from there.
You don't need to do grenade jumps or anything like that, and there's no need to shoot every single wall - only examine the areas in question. None of the cupboards and closets open, so don't bother with them.
You need the runes to unlock the seals (1+2 for the one in the basement; 3+4 for the one in the courtyard; all 4 for the one on the roof).
#10 posted by digs [94.41.64.204] on 2013/02/22 17:44:34
I'm exhausted. I used to jump RocketJump boxes. And I still can not find the rune "S"
Cruel Mistress
#11 posted by sock [186.108.77.104] on 2013/02/22 17:54:00
Amazing idea, I love the atmosphere of the place with all the attention to detail. I did find the progress strange, I was never sure if anything I was doing was the right way to progress. I would find a jump shortcut from a balcony railing and it felt like a shortcut, but turned out to be the way forward. Eventually I got all the secrets on my second play through and the MH was by accident which did not feel good.
The puzzles and progress just made me feel frustrated most of the time. I often found locked doors and did not know how to get past them. First time through I was hopelessly lost and spent ages just bashing walls with my axe. The lowest point for me was the picture puzzle, that should of been a secret not the way forward! That was just cruel.
From a technical point of view the map is amazing, I am sure most of what you have done will be lost on most people because it is not obvious the map hacks. The effort you must of gone through makes me wonder why? It could have been done with new entities and some QC scripts, but I suppose it is the challenge of doing it.
The visuals are amazing, texture alignment perfect and the roles of rooms linked together really well. The pillar details, the storage areas in ceiling spaces and notice boards were flawless. All the extra details created the right vibe for the place.
I thought the scale of the place added to the encounters, it made the knights and ogres feel more dangerous instead of the usual dance around the AI without much care for geometry. The AI certainly had some issues but overall they were fun. I noticed you sneaked in some spawns which made me laugh. My favourite encounter was the shambler in the box up in the attic, very cool story idea.
Amazing work as always.
I Finally Done It!
#12 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/02/22 18:31:14
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/103186490...
2 demos.
only ever got 2 secrets, not sure how to get the last.
Bonus Map
#13 posted by negke [31.18.172.250] on 2013/02/22 19:14:58
Ok, anyone who manages to make it through in one piece, or several (including mental integrity), may cool off (or warm up again, depends) in this bonus map which is the actual base of the newly-released one. That's why it took so long and... you know.
Argh!
#14 posted by Mandel [80.217.68.43] on 2013/02/22 19:27:38
I can't believe I actually finished this on my first playthrough! Easy skill, 48:48, 2/3 secrets, 60/74 kills. http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Quite confusing I have to say. My sense of direction isn't good by any means, and even though this map is quite small I barely ever knew where to go! Still I enjoyed it in some weird way, maybe because it was open to trick jumps. Was trick jumps the way to go most places though? I'm sure there are intended ways to getting all the stuff... I never got past the boxes blocking one path by the way. And exiting with 14 missing kills I'm sure I've missed at least one section of the map.
Sorry about the huge demo, I'm no regular fitzquake user, although mark v has all the features I require and seems nice. My demo is protocol 666, and I'm guessing my playing with a very high framerate cap blows the demo size up.
Amazing though what can be done with (almost) only the standard assets.
#15 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/02/22 19:36:58
Not completed it yet but I had no idea what was happening when I pressed certain buttons and used the runes. Brushwork was good though.
#16 posted by Johnny Law [76.126.53.122] on 2013/02/22 20:34:46
Fun times so far. Got 3 of the runes, but the remaining one (the rune from episode 1) I haven't even glimpsed yet. And it seems that I've reached every area and killed every monster that I've been able to see.
HMMM
(And the fact that you said above that no grenade jumps are required, that's interesting. I did use one; wonder what I missed there.)
#17 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/02/23 03:03:42
Well I completed it with 3/3 secrets. Pretty tough, and I would never have done it if I hadn't have read someone above mentioning the "picture puzzle". It's an interesting map but the difficulty for me is a bit much, I ran out of ammo on the last few death knights near the end (ended up cheating the last bit of the map because of it).
Finished It...Sort Of...
#18 posted by generic [67.235.205.11] on 2013/02/23 03:36:37
Managed to get all kills and all secrets in just around 40 minutes! I got plenty lost as the navigation through the map was counter-intuitive to me, in a left-handed vs. right-handed kind of way. The details and architecture were amazing, even if the textures were a bit drab. The hacks were sheer genius! I broke something at the end, though, and I couldn't end the map properly :(
Great job!!!
I Passed!
#19 posted by digs [94.41.9.21] on 2013/02/23 06:26:14
Great map!
How did you manage to make such a complex weave of corridors and rooms? I bow to your creativity.
Thank you!
#20 posted by rj [82.9.43.50] on 2013/02/23 09:45:00
and I would never have done it if I hadn't have read someone above mentioning the "picture puzzle".
likewise. would never have found rune 3 either if i hadn't opened up the entity file and looked at the origins ;/ was the hint for that one supposed to be the 'rear balcony' message?
good map otherwise. library made me giggle
Not Completed.
#21 posted by Shambler [86.25.166.192] on 2013/02/23 11:17:20
Attempt 1: Spent a very long time getting everything up to the "S"-shaped rune but failed to get that.
Attempt 2: Same again, also spent a very long time getting the S-rune, used up all my ammo on the death knghts and wasn't able to kill the final monsters.
I found a large difference between the internal logic of some puzzles (visible jumping puzzles onto balconies, visible rune behind curtain with a path of instructions to follow), and the puzzles that were pure secrets (S-rune - if the kitchen note relates to this, it is not clear what is front and back of the building, nor which of the many upper floors are the upper floor). The basement puzzle was somewhere in-between as it used a map feature as the secret (painting), however there are a vast number of visual red herrings both in details (paintings etc) and objects (books etc). There are also physical red herrings e.g. grenade jumping (despite not being necessary, explosive jumping is necessary to exit), jumping around the edge of the map (the earliest progress the player makes is via jumping, and later there could be more jumps, also the wooden roof tiles are visible from below).
True
#22 posted by negke [31.18.172.250] on 2013/02/23 11:33:52
It's all fairly haphazard. Once again, I overestimated the players' ability to quickly and easily grasp a layout and mechanics. But in the end I was too fed up with the whole thing to be willing to change or sacrifice any of it. Sorry about that.
You make good points. Another potentially misleading bit about the attic crates, as otp pointed out, is that there's a GL in the workshop next to some broken crates, and a box of rockets visible on the attic, all of which can be interpreted as suggesting one needs to break the crates oneself or grenadejump over if that doesn't work. I blocked off the attic (->roof access) thinking it would help the player for being able to explore the roof part as well would make it even more confusing.
The S-rune in the stash, well, some players found them by accident without even having seen the hint. I made it so the secret door isn't visible when passing by, only when stopping to look around. Obviously doesn't work out.
SPOILER: Rune Locations
#23 posted by negke [31.18.172.250] on 2013/02/23 11:45:13
Rune 1 ("7"): it's in the headmaster's secret study/laboratory. The diary in the bunkhouse hints at the "top of the library stairs" - the button to open access is in the painting.
Rune 2 ("ß"): easiest to find - in the head summoner's chamber, the one with the fiend trap in the doorway.
These two runes unlock the seal in the basement.
Rune 3 ("S"): a secret stash in a corner next to the rear balcony, the one with the GK. The note on the storage floor in the kitchen, up the ladder.
Rune 4 ("&#945;"): behind the curtain. The spell to open it is on one of the bunk beds, as hinted to by the note in the workshop.
These two runes unlock the seal in the courtyard.
When the first two seals are broken, the attic becomes accessible. The third seal on the roof requires all four runes to open.
Wut?
#24 posted by onetruepurple [91.240.47.30] on 2013/02/23 12:40:33
Rune 1 ("7")
Rune 2 ("ß")
Rune 3 ("S")
Rune 4 ("&#945;")
The runes are just 1, 2, 3, 4, highly stylized.
Route
#25 posted by Mandel [80.217.68.43] on 2013/02/23 14:54:55
Route planning is a documented weakness of mine, but here's a demo of me finishing mce in 1:21.
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
#26 posted by negke [31.18.172.250] on 2013/02/23 18:31:19
Func_moderator: Can you please edit the OP and fix a typo - it should read "DirectQ 1.8.8(1)"
Mandel: Very nice already. It should be even quicker/easier if you use the super secret. ;)
#27 posted by lth [85.2.96.225] on 2013/02/23 23:57:49
I concur that it's too confusing but still good fun. Thanks negke!
I Will Play This
#28 posted by Drew [216.252.87.69] on 2013/02/24 01:25:59
eventually...
And when I do I might even record a demo!(!!!!!!!!)
I Need Better Computer
#29 posted by nahkahiir [188.238.168.90] on 2013/02/24 07:04:13
My crappy laptop doesn't run this map without low fps.
And that is why Mandel can keep his record. ;)
#30 posted by Yhe1 [108.0.230.2] on 2013/02/24 08:01:04
try -nomtex
OTP
#31 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/02/25 15:15:47
I never noticed that. Probably because S = 3...
http://wiki.quakeworld.nu/images/R...
Haven't played this one yet.
So
#32 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/02/25 15:16:27
That image is 2341.
#33 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/02/25 17:41:33
pretty sure that fourth one is the episode 2 rune, otherwise i've ballsed up considerably here: http://isoterra.co.uk/quake/s9/e2m...
Uh
#34 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/02/25 17:47:38
You're right.
So the order is 1342 in that image...
Alternatively
#35 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/02/25 18:51:31
Earth, Hell, Elder, Black.
Can't Get Past Seals Breaking...
#36 posted by the silent [79.32.179.76] on 2013/02/26 01:29:01
...everything freezes.
Using Fitzquake (Quakespasm) 0.85 2 on an Imac.
What gives? Any (easy, for the untrained, for dummies) workaround?
Thanks in advance...
Awesome Map
#37 posted by Sevenstrings [114.77.82.28] on 2013/02/26 03:51:03
Just finished playing this one on all the difficulties.
Played it on Fitquakes Mark 5 with zero issues at all.
Very frustrating at first, but once you get into the swing of things it flows very well. Some parts of the map genuinely put a smile on my face (the silly magic curtain and some of the props etc).
I enjoyed the attention to detail. The props as mentioned, like the knives in the workshop and stuff like the rug on the library floor very cool.
One thing I enjoyed was being able to get the keys/items in a different order when I would replay the map in the higher skill level, enhancing the non-linear feel of the map even more.
For those complaining about running out of ammo, well honestly I think that's an issue of simply being wasteful with it.
Fair enough I was almost out of shells and nails (like 4 shells left, 30 nails), but I just finished on Hard just then with 99 rockets and 15 cells, still with one of the 'Battery' of 100 cells left over near the Deathknight super battle/Gold key door that I didn't have to use.
I think that's a more than reasonable amount of ammo to get the job done.
Very cool to see what mappers can still wring out of vanilla quake. A very creative and daring effort, well done Negke!
Big Grin
#38 posted by stevenaaus [49.176.69.173] on 2013/02/26 08:03:51
Finally found the last rune.
Lots of nice touches. Getting lost seems obligatory (gold door is where!?!), but the nice mediaval touches everywhere meant i didnt get so annoyed at having to continuously wander around. The seals are a great theme.
@the silent
QS 0.85.2 is very old... so probably best to upgrade
Uh... Supposed So...
#39 posted by the silent [79.32.179.76] on 2013/02/26 09:59:33
...Question is, where do I find a more recent version ported for OSX?
Nevermind.
#40 posted by the silent [79.32.179.76] on 2013/02/26 10:02:28
Found it.
And Finished It.
#41 posted by the silent [79.32.179.76] on 2013/02/26 10:46:08
Great stuff, as usual Negke. Great, great stuff.
Second run on normal (first one I was up to 3 runes and 2 secrets, missing only the gk) 30 mins-something, 90/90, 2 secrets.
The 2 Secrets is what troubles me. The first time through I had not found the ROS and still had 2. (NG&Tidiness, I suppose)... Hmm, shall have to Nightmare it...
Thanks Guys
#42 posted by negke [31.18.172.250] on 2013/02/26 14:33:56
If you have trouble getting it to run, try one of the engines/versions listed in the readme.
Judging from the demos, it seems most people don't take the hint messages seriously. My idea was that players should return to them, see which ones are still working, then go to the area they hint at and search it thoroughly until the secret door is revealed. Instead, at some point they just run around the map aimlessly and in patterns, always revisiting the same areas and axing this and that as if the way to proceed would just open up by itself.
Perhaps two hints per rune would have been better, at least on the lower skills. And in retrospect, I should have put the stash note (up the ladder in the kitchen) out in the open, so that people wandering around spot it more easily. Library and especially rear balcony (roof negcony) are the nasty ones. Though it should be clear what the front of the building is - big stairs, large door... if in doubt, look at the painting in the hall.
I also found that people sometimes don't seem to understand the seals. I assume that's what Daz meant by "pressing buttons and not knowing what they did". It may be another case where someone doesn't use the second line in the status bar that shows ammo and runes, but it's really quite obvious, now, isn't it: you collect runes, there are runes painted on the seal clamps, go figure.
#43 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/02/26 15:45:24
One of the problems with the rune clamp areas is that there are two of them and also different hint areas. I think if you had all the clamps and hints in one area as a kind of "hub" then that would be much easier to comprehend as a player. You'd still get some aimless wandering about but probably a lot less then now.
The other problematic areas are the picture puzzle and the hidden door. Making the hidden door a very slightly misaligned texture would have been better, and for the picture puzzle I think a subtle animation would have been brilliant (and the player would have blamed himself for not noticing the animation rather than the mapper for not giving you a clue).
Nice Map Once Again Negke
#44 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/02 17:13:23
Nahk: you need low fps? you found some very fancy low fps trick? Or did you get some words mixed up there :) But thats not enough reason to let mandel keep silly records:
http://members.upc.nl/verorber/mce...
if you got good bunny power showing "faith" should be doable from the first fence (i could only do it hfr)
Nice Map Once Again Negke
#45 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/02 17:14:46
Nahk: you need low fps? you found some very fancy low fps trick? Or did you get some words mixed up there :) But thats not enough reason to let mandel keep silly records:
http://members.upc.nl/verorber/mce...
if you got good bunny power showing "faith" should be doable from the first fence (i could only do it hfr)
Aargh
#46 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/02 18:38:25
i give up been searching for that last rune for atleast an hour. secret stash near balcony...? Il stash my secret up your rear balcony.
Finaly
#47 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/02 18:51:41
foudn that stupid door :)
Bit Faster
#48 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/02 22:15:16
http://members.upc.nl/verorber/mce...
bit smoother and found a way i can bunny,still a bit longer then straight of the fence
#49 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/03/03 00:31:06
wow, that's a cool run!
Basil
#50 posted by Mandel [80.217.79.210] on 2013/03/03 01:26:40
My demo showed more of the map... Seriously though, that's great!
Yeah
#51 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/03 18:24:07
I geuss in the old days taking the void secret might be considered the cheap way, though its still a bit to long for that
Argh
#52 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/06 01:32:34
Finally got to play this one properly, and now see what everyone was complaining about :)
Full of details that make me laugh - although the knights doing the ascending have been getting on my nerves for about half an hour as I run round looking for... something.
As always, reminds me of a properly interactive adventure game book.
Ok
#53 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/07 23:24:57
I cheated and followed your spoilers. That damn S rune.
A better indicator would have saved a lot of headaches there, as has been mentioned.
Texturing the 'rear balcony' in red for example and hinting at such in the kitchen ogres text.
Mind-bending fun nonetheless. Thanks.
Quality Production.
#54 posted by Drew [216.252.87.111] on 2013/03/09 04:17:21
So I didn't actually record a demo, since everyone made it sound like it would be 2 hours long, revealing me to be an idiot, axing everythign in sight.
But after having read some of the posts (but not your explicit hints) and playing with a certain mental framework in place, I kind of regret not recording a demo; I think I performed very admirably!
I really only had trouble with the painting button, like everyone else. I I found the S rune immediately upon entering that section of the map! I think my overall play time was around 40 minutes. I actually enjoyed my experience wholeheartedly, other than the time I spent searching for that painting-button.
BUt yeah Negke - this is so polished and atmospheric and has such a perfectly realised aesthetic to it. You should definitely be proud of what you've accomplished! A very well rounded locale - loved the basement, loved the courtyard area, everything in the looks department!
Really enjoyed the magic curtain scenario, the library, the 'interactive adventure game book' feel overall! No idea how you managed all that shit in Vanilla... but that's nothing new on my end!
Thanks again, as always, for being more committed to this Quake shit, and not being a flake like me!
Kitchen Ogres :)
#55 posted by mechtech [65.190.158.200] on 2013/03/13 18:06:03
great map
Walkthrough Demo
#56 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/16 10:10:35
As usual, here is a 100% demo for those who are interested in seeing the (official) secrets and how to deal with the puzzles.
Demo
Youtube (quality sucks, watch on HD if you can)
I'll look into redoing the video properly.
Thanks everyone for playing or at least giving it a try. Drew, I'm proud of you. <3
Holy Shit...
#57 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2013/03/16 14:06:11
... impressive !
Seal Override Activated
#58 posted by Drew [216.252.94.249] on 2013/03/23 04:09:55
hahaha!
#59 posted by Baker [69.47.162.203] on 2013/03/23 06:26:06
Tried this 2 weeks back and liked it a lot, had a nice puzzle feel like Red Slammer mappi did. Had to watch some of Scragbait's demo to progress, ironic perhaps as map reminded me of his Haunted House level hhouse.
Didn't actually finish map entirely. Enjoyed a number of the puzzles; like your brush models trick. Didn't find Mandel's demo particularly useful in solving map. ;-)
Initial failure to achieve progress using axe on all surfaces caused intrigue and frustration causing obsessive need to make progress. Irritated that did not solve wine barrel secret on own; inspected room several times, not sure how I could have missed the obvious except I may have thought activator caused text to appear and looked like button.
#60 posted by erc [46.197.69.124] on 2013/05/14 09:32:56
Silly me - figured I have to jump for the first key, somehow didn't see that for second. Ran around for ten minutes then got the clue from your tube vid. It was enough for me to get the 'logic' and go on by myself.
But enough of that.
This is marvellous. Even though it is contained in a single building, it reeks of Hexen - highly adventureous feel that I think would add greatly to some medieval themed custom maps of the past. The way you open up your path by following the logically placed hints and all the little details (additional texts especially) make this one come alive and give it a proper sense of place. Surely a unique approach for Quake and a winner without a doubt.
I hope you will design more experimental maps like this negke. Thanks for the great experience.
Thanks
#61 posted by negke [31.18.179.222] on 2013/05/18 11:44:10
Heh, hope you're not incurring the wrath of everyone else for encouraging me to make more experimental maps...
#62 posted by erc [46.197.69.124] on 2013/05/18 12:47:38
It even made me begin my Assassin run through Portal of Praevus that I had in in mind for a long time. I have only played it as Demoness before (or the original as Paladin and Crusader for that matter). Hopefully your next 'experiment' will make me go for Necromancer in a few years. :)

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