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Posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/01 18:37:12

Today I am releasing TrenchBroom 1.0 for Windows and Mac OS X. TrenchBroom is a modern cross-platform level editor for Quake.
Features
- True 3D editing, no 2D views required
- High performance renderer with support for huge maps
- Vertex editing with edge and face splitting
- Manipulation of multiple vertices at once (great for trisoup editing)
- Smart clip tool
- Move, rotate and flip brushes and entities
- Precise texture lock for all operations
- Smart entity property editors
- Graphical entity browser with drag and drop support
- Comprehensive texture application and manipulation tools
- Search and filter functions
- Unlimited undo and redo
- Point file support
- Automatic backup
- Support for .def and .fdg files, mods and multiple wad files
- Free (as in beer) and open source (GPLv3)
- Cross platform (Windows, Mac OS X and Linux supported)
Check out a video of TrenchBroom in action here.
You can download the editor here.
If you would like to give feedback, please do that in this thread. If you find a bug or have a feature suggestion, please submit them at the issue tracker.
If you are wondering where the Linux binaries are then sorry, but currently there are none. The Linux version has a few problems which I could not fix before this release. I will get working on those right away so that the Linux version should be available in a couple of weeks, too.
Finally, I would like to thank necros for all his work over the past year. Without his tireless efforts, TrenchBroom would simply not exist. Or it would suck.
Alright, enough of this. Have fun with the editor!

Hats Off Sir
#1 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/01 18:53:26
And thanks!
Forgot To Mention
#2 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/01 18:59:27
It has full documentation built in.
Yes
#3 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/01 19:05:03
Reading it and playing around now. The interface is incredibly slick. It's been a long time since I've opened a new editor and been able to just throw things together.
This feels more easy and comfortable than Unity...
And if I'm seeing right you are reading defs and fgd.
This is epic.
#4 posted by [142.245.193.2] on 2013/03/01 19:13:46
The FGD loading has been extended to support model loading (as well as linking models to specific settings on entities like spawnflags and other key/vals). So, if you click 'rotten' on the health box, you get the rotten health box model.
This can all be customized for mods and such. It isn't documented yet since it was more important to get the application released with the mapping related documentation but this sort of ancillary documentation will be done later.
#5 posted by rebb [80.141.110.100] on 2013/03/01 19:24:22
Nice work, SleepWalkR !
Wow
#6 posted by quakis [86.22.126.142] on 2013/03/01 19:35:34
My reaction after the video. Totally going to check this out. qe3 was nice to work with, but I just love messing around with editors in general. Looks very comfortable to use, will find out soon!
#7 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/01 19:41:42
This looks really slick, dude, congrats! Going to have a serious play with it over the weekend...
1st Impressions
#8 posted by DaZ [78.147.157.60] on 2013/03/01 20:17:44
After literally 10 seconds of adding some wads and choosing the quake directory etc and fgd (I love you for supporting fgd) I was mapping. It was literally that easy, amazing stuff!
Clipping tool is epic
camera controls are good but will take some getting used to coming from WC - would love to able to just toggle a key and go into "noclip camera mode" like in wc. Where you have mouselook on and can just w,a,s,d to move around like you were in-game.
Quite tricky to pull brush sides outward on a single axis that you want, theres probably a key for this I'll have to play some more.
TrenchBroom 1.0.1
#9 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/01 20:21:51
There was a bug that prevented TrenchBroom from reading map files with comments in it (it was a mere typo). This is fixed in TrenchBroom 1.0.1.
Download here.
Camera Controls
#10 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/01 20:36:11
For those lazy bastards who don't read documentation: Try Alt + Right drag and make sure your drag starts on some object (brush or entity). This will orbit the camera around the point were you clicked. I think once you get used to this, you won't miss your old editor for long ;-)
#11 posted by necros [142.245.59.11] on 2013/03/01 20:41:01
you can sort of get a walkthrough mode with just right clicking to turn the camera and mwheel up to move forward.
#12 posted by necros [142.245.59.11] on 2013/03/01 20:45:27
Quite tricky to pull brush sides outward on a single axis that you want, theres probably a key for this I'll have to play some more.
Are you talking about while in vertex editing mode? There is only the Alt key to toggle vertical movement on and off for now. There was originally a way to clamp movement to specific axes, but it was bulky and not very useful most of the time so for now, movement on x/y cannot be clamped.
In these cases, it helps to get used to moving the camera more. For myself, it took a while to get used to having to move the camera so much because I would normally just leave it sit in a general area and do my editing in the 2d views and just watch the 3d without interacting with it much.
Daz
#13 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/01 20:58:36
You can move things around with the cursor keys and page up / down.
Or Try
#14 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/01 20:59:48
Shift dragging faces when not in vertex mode.
#15 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/01 21:01:34
"Try Alt + Right drag and make sure your drag starts on some object (brush or entity). "
Mother of god ... awesome!
My only complaint at this point would be the texture browser. It's hard to make out some of them on a high res screen.
#16 posted by necros [142.245.193.9] on 2013/03/01 21:02:11
Yes, thanks I should have mentioned that as well. Vertices are treated like objects, so you can select them and move them just like anything else. I use the keyboard a lot when I need to do precise stuff.
Looks Epic But
#17 posted by Kinn [86.164.250.110] on 2013/03/01 21:06:31
For those lazy bastards who don't read documentation: Try Alt + Right drag and make sure your drag starts on some object (brush or entity). This will orbit the camera around the point were you clicked. I think once you get used to this, you won't miss your old editor for long ;-)
wasd-style flythough is essential for this kind of work, i'd highly recommend putting it in.
Willem
#18 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/01 21:08:55
I will add a zoom feature for the texture browser in 1.1.
Kinn
#19 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/01 21:11:04
Like this? https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBr...
Sure
#20 posted by Kinn [86.164.250.110] on 2013/03/01 21:15:14
sounds great :}
#21 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/01 22:39:47
Just wanted to say thanks for this. I've played around for a little bit now and I can honestly say that I feel this rekindling a lot of that old, raw fun factor of Quake editing that I felt way back in the day.
This is a great editor, congrats!
Thank You
#22 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/01 22:41:09
That is great to hear!
Amazing
#23 posted by Tyrann [203.122.220.108] on 2013/03/01 22:52:15
Damn that looks awesome! Definitely going to start using this.
SleepwalkR: Thankyou so much for using git as well! So much easier to follow what is going on and to contribute. You're a bloody legend :D
F Yeah!
#24 posted by Spiney [91.177.70.247] on 2013/03/02 00:03:43
Awesome, downloading!
#25 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/02 00:31:29
Tried to run it and I got an error saying "msvcp100.dll could not be found". I downloaded this -
http://www.microsoft.com/download/...
Which removed the error message. But the .exe crashes. I can see the black box at the bottom trying to find all the .mdl files but all I can do is close the program.
I'm running 32bit windows 8. (2ghz processor, 3gb ram... ummm yeah it's a laptop).
I literally reinstalled my OS today so my pc is completely clear of junk.
FifthElephant
#26 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/02 00:34:14
I have successfully been able to run the editor on Windows 8, albeit in a virtual machine. Could you please create a new issue and give me some information on your graphics card and driver? Also, paste the entire contents of the console, please.
http://github.com/kduske/TrenchBro...
#27 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/02 00:34:30
Just watched that video, really well done on that. :D
Thanks ;-)
#28 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.58.140] on 2013/03/02 00:40:38
But it's mostly a testament to how easy to use iMove is, because I'm totally a hack ;-)
#29 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/02 00:47:12
Sorry SleepwalkR, it wont let me select the text in the console. Does the editor have a way of logging everything into a file? I have made a screenshot -
http://s23.postimage.org/xm8w7bsq3...
My graphics card is Geforce 8600M GT and the driver info is in the screenshot -
http://s23.postimage.org/lls1kcap7...
I hope this helps.
No Problem
#30 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 00:52:09
TrenchBroom doesn't write a log file, but it should. I'll add that to the next release. Maybe I can fix your problem then. Sorry.
Congrats!
#31 posted by mindabuse [24.196.80.38] on 2013/03/02 01:09:48
Echoing what Williem said and congrats on the release!
Also want to say that TrenchBroom has an extremely fluid method of sculpting (tri-soup-like) brushes. Excellent work!
Any Way To Get WASD? :)
#32 posted by Spiney [91.177.70.247] on 2013/03/02 01:32:53
Success!
#33 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/02 01:44:52
Turns out it was the graphics driver, I updated to the latest nvidia drivers and I got it working!
It's fairly nifty, somewhat reminiscent of the built-in Portal 2 editor (only more powerful), I will be a bore and echo the WASD requests... so far so good though. I look forward to tinkering all weekend. :)
This Looks
#34 posted by scar3crow [131.107.0.75] on 2013/03/02 01:55:56
amazing. I'm going to have to try this out tonight. On a side note, I discovered this via Carmack's twitter actually. I'll do a news post on Inside3d about it tonight as well.
I hope I like it even half as well as DaZ and Willem seem to!
#35 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/02 02:04:21
You'll love it. I'm mapping for my old mod Qonquer right now and it's absolutely seamless. Between this editor, and the new tools that were just released, and the compiler UI from Necros Quake mapping is enjoyable again. :P
#36 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/02 03:37:24
I think once everyone starts to get the hang of the vertex manip, we may see some truly wild maps.
#37 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/02 04:04:35
I've already partially converted my WIP level to trenchboom. I do feel without a 2d x/y grid etc I have less accuracy though, it's a very organic feeling editor.
This Looks Pretty Sweet!
#38 posted by The Happy Friar [50.122.188.10] on 2013/03/02 05:34:31
I'll give it a go, but Quake 2 is my poison of choice for Quake editing. Any plans for Q2 support?
Quake 2 And Quake 3 Support
#39 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 08:00:19
it's on my todo list, but it will take a while.
Thanks Scarecr0w
#40 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 08:09:39
Crash...
#41 posted by quaketree [76.14.42.216] on 2013/03/02 08:36:38
I had the same problem as elephant walker (sp) above.
Win XP (fully up to date)
GForce440go
C++ 2010 runtimes installed
old laptop (but that shouldn't matter unless this software needs more than 512mb on startup)
Console started loading something about models (it went by pretty fast so I couldn't see what it said with any accuracy) then it crashed.
Maybe I'll try it again after it's a bit more matured but I do like the concept.
#42 posted by Spirit [80.171.96.73] on 2013/03/02 09:36:21
Wow, how did Carmack find out about this?
I Got Cocky
#43 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 09:42:19
And emailed him.
Quaketree
#44 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/02 10:04:34
I resolved the issue by updating to the latest drivers, maybe try that if you haven't already? :)
Cock
#45 posted by Spirit [80.187.110.71] on 2013/03/02 10:04:35
nice!
So It's Offically To TB Now Supports Win?
#46 posted by spy [95.56.44.124] on 2013/03/02 10:38:37
great news
#47 posted by spy [95.56.44.124] on 2013/03/02 10:44:43
<quote>Loading file H:\Mapping\555.map
Loading unsupported map Valve 220 map format</quote>
thats sad
Tried It A Tiny Bit
#48 posted by scar3crow [71.236.238.51] on 2013/03/02 10:52:15
Went through 80% of the documentation, I really appreciate that it is there! So far everything feels very good. Going to finish the documentation in the morning, then prod at the primary functions, and once I feel comfortable, attempt a speedmap with it.
Oh and FYI, Tom Mustaine retweeted the link Carmack had supplied, and stated he knew what he was going to be up to this weekend. Perhaps word will spread to Levelord and we can get some bizarro mini-Scourge of Armagon going on...
#49 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/02 10:53:16
I think he said he's working on support for 220 map files. It'd be nice (and I could import my WIP levels in to do the organic stuff like terrain), but I'd love to have some more robust texture alignment features (snap to top/bottom/face/floor etc, basically the options available in WC)
Gonna Read This Thread From Its Start
#50 posted by spy [95.56.44.124] on 2013/03/02 11:02:17
Not Loading .mdl Files
#51 posted by Lava Croft [62.131.240.170] on 2013/03/02 11:58:17
Maybe I have done something wrong, but TrenchBroom will not find/load any .mdl files from either the Quake paks or the progs folder.
Other than that, this editor is a fantastic piece of work. Now on to adding support for Quake2 and Quake3! :)
What Does It Say On The Console?
#52 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 12:01:49
#53 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/02 12:02:37
It would be nice if Q2 and Q3 support were segregated well. Most editors wear all the games on their sleeve and it's annoying to see menu options and flags all over the place that don't apply to the game you're editing.
Not Loading .mdl Files
#54 posted by Lava Croft [62.131.240.170] on 2013/03/02 12:13:00
Apparently TrenchBroom selected Quake\id1 instead of just Quake\. Solved!
Not Loading .mdl Files
#55 posted by Lava Croft [62.131.240.170] on 2013/03/02 12:13:35
Actually, it only loaded player.mdl. It did not load anything else...
#56 posted by Spirit [80.171.96.73] on 2013/03/02 12:27:29
Same crash as Quaketree on a Windows 7 with Intel GMA 3150 with ancient drivers. I will reboot into nvidia (it's an optimus system).
#57 posted by Spirit [80.171.96.73] on 2013/03/02 12:35:16
Works fine with the nvidia.
Placing "Preferences" in "View" seems weird to me. "Edit" would be more normal.
Random
#58 posted by Spirit [80.171.96.73] on 2013/03/02 12:43:43
Loading wads quickly says "loaded" in the console but then it stalls for a moment before the wad appears in the list (thumbnails I guess). Maybe add a message, I thought it crashed.
When you have toggled "group" in the wad view, make the wad name clickable and extend it into a list of all the loaded wads to let the user quickly jump to a wad.
Lava Croft
#59 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 12:49:49
Please open an issue at the issue tracker and post the console output there.
Willem
#60 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 12:50:26
Good point! The interface must adapt to whatever game you are working on.
Sleepwalker
#61 posted by Lava Croft [62.131.240.170] on 2013/03/02 13:25:58
The issue seems solved once I pointed TrenchBroom to Quake\ instead of id1\. I don't recall if I set it to Quake\id1 or if TrenchBroom did. I will stick with my being at fault for now. Thanks a bunch for the editor, awesome work!
TrenchBroom 1.0.2
#62 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 13:33:50
Changes
- Fix issues with texture caching when removing wad files.
- Correctly display long spawnflag names.
- Improve clip plane guessing when less than 3 points are available.
- Fix crash when calling "Center Camera on Selection" when nothing is selected.
- Add option to disable instanced rendering.
About the last issue: If the editor goes bonkers when you activate vertex mode, it failed to properly detect whether OpenGL instancing is supported by your driver. In this case, go to the preferences and choose "Force off" from the instancing mode dropdown list.
Thanks everyone for the bug reports.
Addendum
#63 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 13:47:07
Also fixed an "off by one" error in the mod list of the map properties dialog.
Unable To Load Mdl
#64 posted by DxC [82.12.172.122] on 2013/03/02 16:40:57
Loading 'progs/player.mdl' (searching C:\Quake\ID1,C:\Quake\ID1)
Unable to find MDL 'progs/player.mdl'
as a example - I saw others fixing it by pointing TrenchBroom to Quake\ instead of id1\ I have no idea how to go about this. So any help or being pointed towards a solution would be great - I am looking forward to using this as been using Quark for so long a change would be wonderful!
Are Your Pak Files All Lowercase?
#65 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.106.206] on 2013/03/02 16:54:59
And yes, you have to set your Quake directory in the preferences, but it looks okay from the log output. Can you post the contents of your id1 directory please?
Contents
#66 posted by DxC [82.12.172.122] on 2013/03/02 16:59:27
GFX
glquake
MAPS
progs
SOUND
there are the folders
GFX.WAD
PROGS.DAT
QUAKE.RC
qwprogs.dat
Are the side files in the folder also.
Contents
#67 posted by DxC [82.12.172.122] on 2013/03/02 17:05:02
GFX
glquake
MAPS
progs
SOUND
there are the folders
GFX.WAD
PROGS.DAT
QUAKE.RC
qwprogs.dat
Are the side files in the folder also.
There Are No Pak Files
#68 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.106.206] on 2013/03/02 17:15:23
TrenchBroom will only read models from pak files, not from the directories. You will need the standard pak files.
Contents
#69 posted by DxC [82.12.172.122] on 2013/03/02 17:32:54
GFX
glquake
MAPS
progs
SOUND
there are the folders
GFX.WAD
PROGS.DAT
QUAKE.RC
qwprogs.dat
Are the side files in the folder also.
Two Feature Requests?
#70 posted by quakis [86.22.126.142] on 2013/03/02 17:35:47
Duplicate brush and paste EXACTLY where previous brush is. Just an alternative to copy & paste really. This is super useful to save even a few seconds, no need to align x/y/z when I just need it nudged to the left/right a few times. Pretty sure Radiant/DarkRadiant has this, but it's been a while since I last used them.
Texturing from the texture window without needing a face selected. I choose my texture, and start clicking at random faces and they'll be assigned there. Kind of like WC/Hammer (iirc)
Otherwise, I am loving this editor. Still messing around with it but workflow is pretty fast already. It honestly feels a bit smoother and quicker to use than Radiant varieties I've tried.
Quakis
#71 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 17:43:13
Duplicate in place is already on my todo list.
As for the texture application issue, TrenchBroom has something similar builtin. Look at the section "Working with Textures / Mouse Shortcuts" in the documentation.
Dude
#72 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/02 18:03:47
I think I'm going to play with this :)
Looks really cool.
Video just blew my mind.
Contents
#73 posted by DxC [82.12.172.122] on 2013/03/02 18:07:19
GFX
glquake
MAPS
progs
SOUND
there are the folders
GFX.WAD
PROGS.DAT
QUAKE.RC
qwprogs.dat
Are the side files in the folder also.
We Get It Dude
#74 posted by onetruepurple [91.240.47.30] on 2013/03/02 18:08:18
Thanks!
#75 posted by DxC [82.12.172.122] on 2013/03/02 18:08:33
No idea why it keeps posting that iv even restarted my browser and it still insists on doing so.. >.<
anyway thanks Ill try track down the original Pak files they should not be so hard to find!
DxC
#76 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 18:11:23
I already have a build that will load models from scattered files. If you want it, send me an email to kristian.duske@gmail.com
The fix will go into 1.0.3, but I'm not going to release that right away.
Needs Xonotic Support
#77 posted by poVoq [41.190.196.82] on 2013/03/02 19:04:59
Needs to support Xonotic (runs on the quake1 based Darkplaces engine) like RIGHT NOW!
Awesome work, thanks for making this.
Strange Texture Skewing
#78 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/02 19:07:04
I'm having a lot of trouble with texture alignment (as you may have seen on my other posts) but I haven't shown a picture. Essentially I've edited the verts of a brush so that I can create a kind of angular wall but the alignment is way off. Is there a way to align the texture to the face like in WC? Pictures below for reference -
http://s15.postimage.org/wgjjzbix7...
http://s16.postimage.org/enqn5lg5h...
I hope I'm not being annoying with bringing this up multiple times, this is otherwise an excellent editor (and I will probably end up dropping using Worldcraft entirely).
This Is Not A Bug
#79 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 19:25:03
It's not a feature either ;-). This is how Quake does texture projection. WC uses a different type of projection that most compilers also understand, but TB doesn't support his yet. It's on the todo list though, and since a few people have already asked for this, I will probably get working on it soon.
Crashes Using 3 Point Clipping
#80 posted by scar3crow [71.236.238.51] on 2013/03/02 21:48:38
Still trying to work out repro steps, but it has crashed each time I've tried to do any 3 point clipping. Might have to do clipping in multiple separate steps. I'll let you know if I find anything more specific. FYI, I've not had any of the problems others have in this thread so far (Win7-64bit, Radeon HD6850).
Oh And
#81 posted by scar3crow [71.236.238.51] on 2013/03/02 21:49:18
This is with 1.0.2 and 1.0.1.
Scarecrow
#82 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.108.249] on 2013/03/02 21:55:27
Thanks for trying. I'm thinking it must be something with the renderer.
Wow
#83 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/03 00:44:46
Never realized you could split multiple edges at once if they share the same place.
Select two brushes that share a pair of vertex positions, double click the edge between those two and you split both edges at once AND the new vertices move as one.
I love this editor. ^_^
Mandatory *tips Hat To SleepwalkR"
#84 posted by Baker [69.47.162.203] on 2013/03/03 01:29:51
I hope this editor evolves to become "the standard Q1 editor".
Knowing how 10 minute ideas can at times take 2-days to reduce to code, and the sheer number of them, there are 53 different ways this is quite awesome.
Congratulations! Shall we all be fortunate enough to see more monumental acts of defiance against odds in the future.
I Wouldn't Have Even Attempted This Without It
#85 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/03 02:15:29
http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jon...
http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jon...
Thanks. :)
Also, I haven't done any of the documentation I said I would do because I was mapping. You have only yourself to blame!
#86 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/03 02:26:38
Necros you are an unstoppable beast... Really I'm blown away right now.
I was kinda hoping I'd get to crank out the first Trench map but I can't map so much at that pace.
#87 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/03 03:07:03
I've been testing it for the past few months so I'm pretty proficient with the interface, but this is the first chance I've had to do some serious non-stop mapping that wasn't trying to break anything. :P
I just really love how powerful the vertex manip is. In other editors I would always be careful to do my manip in a way that wouldn't crash the editor or break the brush. In trenchbroom I just grab a vert and move it any old way and it just works.
Drivers
#88 posted by quaketree [76.14.42.216] on 2013/03/03 05:38:21
Frogdammit. I do have the latest drivers for that card. In fact I have drivers newer than the last officially released ones for that card. Still made by Geforce but dated in 2005. The laptop is a 2002 model and doesn't support shaders which is why I was going to relegate it to something else. All of the other map editors work fine on it.
Oh well...
QuakeTree
#89 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.106.206] on 2013/03/03 07:30:11
Sorry, but TB requires shaders. I'll add minimum system requirements to the website.
#90 posted by digs [92.50.131.158] on 2013/03/03 07:59:35
Can't run. After starting the program I get a message:
http://s017.radikal.ru/i430/1303/e...
After pressing a button, the message is displayed again. So many times. Then the program ends
Windows 7
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Series
It Needs A Log File
#91 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 08:42:28
digs, I will add a log file to the next version. For some reason, some of the error dialogs don't show any meaningful information (even though there usually is some). Then we can try to fix this problem.
God Damn
#92 posted by starbuck [77.99.186.145] on 2013/03/03 12:46:40
this looks amazing! I may have to try this mapping lark again. Everyone: Expect lots of newb questions in the near future.
Crash After Moving Program Dir (win7)
#93 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/03 13:40:58
I ran it yesterday, it was sitting in my downloads folder. So I moved it into program files today. When I open it now it instantly crashes. Does it store a config somewhere which I need to delete?
The copy in the old folder still works fine.
It Seems
#94 posted by Kinn [86.163.3.118] on 2013/03/03 14:05:25
2012 was a milestone years for maps, and 2013 is already a milestone year for tools.
Not even a quarter of the way through and we've already given vis times a big punch in the balls with Tyrann's new shizzle, and now this comes along which seems to be taking brush manipulation to a new level.
Do you know what I would absolutely love though:
The option of using a max/maya-style movement handle with arrows along each axis that you can pull to move in just that axis. The current movement is pretty great, but I find it's sometimes hard to keep it constrained to x or y, and with a max/maya type gizmo, I wouldn't need to keep holding alt to move in z.
That said, i've been mucking around making organic rocky stuff with this, and it's just amazing....
Make That "g" For Gizmo
#95 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/03 14:07:32
Kinn
#96 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 14:14:51
We had implemented movement handles at one point, but I found it to be unintuitive. I wanted ppl to be able to just grab objects and move them around. I can add a special mode for move handles, but it feels redundant. Let me think about it, maybe I can come up with a way to restrict movement axes that can be combined with the current approach.
Spiney
#97 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 14:20:39
TrenchBroom keeps its config in the registry under
HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/TrenchB...
If you delete that entire key, does it work? I can't imagine why it would fail when you move the app, though.
Yeah
#98 posted by Kinn [86.163.3.118] on 2013/03/03 14:23:22
i think as an option that you can toggle with a shortcut it would be perfect because there's always situations where you want to yank stuff effortlessly in one axis without worrying about moving it in another.
I Never Needed That
#99 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 14:25:39
but it seems that many people are used to what they can do in professional 3D packages. I'll see what I can do.
About The Gizmo
#100 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/03 14:46:50
Trying out a cave wall, I sometimes accidentally push verts off into the distance. Having a gizmo with 3 axis and 3 planes would be really handy at times. (like this: http://www.finalclap.com/ressource... )
The gizmo is one of those things I often lack in level editors for older games (most newer editors have them).
alternatively you could try having cubes for handles, and selecting the y-face on the cube would move on the y-plane, etc... you could have a similar system of bounding boxes when selecting an entire brush.
(on a sidenote, in the view tab, having the ability to hide vertex handles on backfaces could be useful)
Seems It Has To Do With User Rights Management
#101 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/03 14:54:35
I put it into program files on C:\, but that requires admin login. Moving it to F:\ which is accessible as regular user fixes it...
Hope that makes sense?
Using The Bounding Boxes For Axis Selection
#102 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 14:55:31
doesn't work if you are too close to the selection. We discussed that one already.
A lot of the fluidity and speed when doing brush manipulation in TrenchBroom is due to the ability to just click and drag stuff around. This is seriously hampered by gizmos because you have to hit a small part of them to select the correct axis. That's why I would prefer a different option that can be combined with the idea of just clicking anywhere on an object to move it around.
Spiney
#103 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 14:56:17
Never seen this problem, so I guess it's something with your system?
Woot
#104 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/03 15:02:07
Looks like insurer my gizmo back!
Nooooo
#105 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 15:04:24
I'll find a gizmo-less way to restrict movement axes!
#106 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/03 15:08:12
Looks like I may my gizmo back!
Predictive text sucks...
May Get
#107 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 15:10:58
Sure, blame technology!
Oops, Read Over The Handles Part...
#108 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/03 15:35:05
And yeah, might be my system.
Also, this is obviously a retard move, but anyway; reproducible crash with the clipper: http://www.spiney.me/files/etc/cli...
Camera Movement
#109 posted by Lava Croft [62.131.240.170] on 2013/03/03 15:39:00
It's probably been mentioned before, but I (as a Radiant-lover) would like some kind of 'legacy' control scheme for the editor that mimics Radiant's or (god forbid) WorldCraft's keybindings / camera control.
Other than that, and this can't be said enough, this editor is a serious Godsend.
Lava Croft
#110 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 16:10:03
You mean a flythrough mode like this? https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBr...
Spiney
#111 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 16:18:22
Thanks for the report, it will be fixed in 1.0.3.
TrenchBroom 1.0.3
#112 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 16:41:14
Changes
- Objects are no longer displaced when duplicated.
- Fix off-by-one bug of mod list in map properties dialog.
- Snap vertex coordinates if close to integer coordinates.
- Add logging on all platforms.
- Properly merge spawnflags when loading fgd or def files.
- Fix crash bug when clipping all selected brushes.
Append
#113 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 16:42:11
- Properly set the size of point entities from fgd files.
Oh And
#114 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 16:44:17
Scratch the first item. That's 1.1.0 - sorry!
+1
#115 posted by sock [186.108.77.104] on 2013/03/03 17:02:40
Having a gizmo with 3 axis and 3 planes would be really handy at times.
Yep, totally agree, also an axis lock function.
Add flythrough mode
A noclip fly mode is a must for me.
#116 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/03 17:22:47
I feel dumb .. how do I move brushes back to the worldspawn?
#117 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/03 17:24:31
FFS, NOW I see it in the docs. Never mind. :)
#118 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/03 17:24:31
FFS, NOW I see it in the docs. Never mind. :)
#119 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/03 17:24:42
*shame*
The Gizmo Issue
#120 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 17:40:06
Ok guys, I see that a lot of you want a gizmo for moving things around. The thing is, unlike everyone else except for necros, I have already seen how gizmos work in TrenchBroom, and while he may disagree, I don't think they work very well because
1. They clutter up the viewport, esp. if you have only one entity selected.
2. They are harder to hit than just clicking and dragging anywhere on an object.
3. They seriously diminish what some have called the "slickness" of this editor. The ability to just grab and move things around is very important, and it is hindered by having these gizmos.
Now you might suggest that I implement both. But that would be redundant for everything except restricting movement to one single axis. So what I really hear when you say "I want a gizmo" is "I want to be able to restrict the axis of movement". Note that you already have restrictions in place though:
- By default, you can only move things on the horizontal plane.
- You can restrict the movement direction to the Z axis by holding ALT.
So what I think is really necessary is a way to restrict the axis of movement to the X or Y axis. I have just thought about a solution that I'm going to implement to see how it works.
Bottom line: I'm not going to add gizmos for movement until all other options are exhausted. And even then I might not do it because I think they are, for the reasons outlined above, a bad solution to a fundamental UI problem of 3D software: How to translate 2D input into 3D.
Make Optional?
#121 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/03 18:19:27
I understand the whole 'developers license' as in 'artistic license', but you could make it optional, off by default.
#122 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/03 18:42:09
Ricky
Not to bash on you, but that's the crappy way out on stuff like this. Adding scores of checkboxes to an app just adds ton of code paths that all need testing before each release and just slows everything down. If he can hit on a "right way" and just do that, it's far better in the long run.
#123 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/03 18:43:17
"So what I think is really necessary is a way to restrict the axis of movement to the X or Y axis."
Yes, totally agree. If something simple can be worked out for axis locking on brushes and entities, I think you'd be golden!
#124 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/03 18:45:42
I agree with Ricky, make it an option (or a hotkey like holding alt does with z axis, or have it pop up like when you press R for rotation). I'm getting quite used to the workflow now, it's becoming less of an issue the more I play.
I need to figure out a good way of making curves in TB now... Also, I have noticed that the entities don't seem to have all the options available (for instance the light entity doesn't have the light, style, _color key etc).
#125 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/03 19:07:24
If he can hit on a "right way" and just do that, it's far better in the long run.
I agree with this. I'm all for customization, but not on core functionality.
#126 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/03 19:08:28
Elephant
Hit the "+" button. You can add all the keys you want.
Willem
#127 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/03 19:11:57
Yeah I know, I just have a terrible memory for remembering all the keys :P
I'm sure I remember seeing a colour picker for coloured lighting...
So I Love This Editor
#128 posted by DaZ [92.26.172.251] on 2013/03/03 19:12:54
I agree with others that a way to clamp to x or y axis is needed.
Something of a more advanced feature for people that are awful at maths (like me) would be a nice brush curves tool where for example you could select a brush or combination of brushes and then select a bend angle and amount of segments and it would create a nice clean on-grid brush curve for you. Similar to how czg's curve tutorial handles things but automated.
Adding more functionality to the entity window would be awesome too, things like light value entries, wait, delay, colour etc.
Just Wondering
#129 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/03 19:19:29
Is there a reason for doing page-up/down rather than alt+arrows?
Responses
#130 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 19:41:23
<quote>I understand the whole 'developers license' as in 'artistic license', but you could make it optional, off by default. </quote>
<quote>I agree with Ricky, make it an option (or a hotkey like holding alt does with z axis, or have it pop up like when you press R for rotation). I'm getting quite used to the workflow now, it's becoming less of an issue the more I play. </quote>
See Willem's response. That's exactly how I feel about this.
<quote>I need to figure out a good way of making curves in TB now...</quote>
<quote>Something of a more advanced feature for people that are awful at maths (like me) would be a nice brush curves tool where for example you could select a brush or combination of brushes and then select a bend angle and amount of segments and it would create a nice clean on-grid brush curve for you. Similar to how czg's curve tutorial handles things but automated. </quote>
A patch builder is on my todo list. It would basically allow you to create patches and then generate brushwork (trisoup) for them.
<quote> Also, I have noticed that the entities don't seem to have all the options available (for instance the light entity doesn't have the light, style, _color key etc). </quote>
The entity property editor is quite rudimentary as is, I agree. I plan on the following features
- Easy way to add "known" properties (from fgd or def file).
- Display additional description strings from fgd and def file.
- More smart property editors (angle, mangle, target, etc).
- Better navigation (tab to navigate row-wise, enter to navigate column-wise, create new property when leaving the last row).
- And other things I can't think of right now.
<quote>Is there a reason for doing page-up/down rather than alt+arrows? </quote>
Alt+Arrows is currently taken for the camera movement. You will be able to completely customize this in the next version though. I agree that Alt+up/down would also make sense given that Alt+Mouse will move things vertically.
Fucking Hell.
#131 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.186] on 2013/03/03 19:42:48
I understand the whole 'developers license' as in 'artistic license', but you could make it optional, off by default.
I agree with Ricky, make it an option (or a hotkey like holding alt does with z axis, or have it pop up like when you press R for rotation). I'm getting quite used to the workflow now, it's becoming less of an issue the more I play.
See Willem's response. That's exactly how I feel about this.
I need to figure out a good way of making curves in TB now...
Something of a more advanced feature for people that are awful at maths (like me) would be a nice brush curves tool where for example you could select a brush or combination of brushes and then select a bend angle and amount of segments and it would create a nice clean on-grid brush curve for you. Similar to how czg's curve tutorial handles things but automated.
A patch builder is on my todo list. It would basically allow you to create patches and then generate brushwork (trisoup) for them.
Also, I have noticed that the entities don't seem to have all the options available (for instance the light entity doesn't have the light, style, _color key etc).
The entity property editor is quite rudimentary as is, I agree. I plan on the following features
- Easy way to add "known" properties (from fgd or def file).
- Display additional description strings from fgd and def file.
- More smart property editors (angle, mangle, target, etc).
- Better navigation (tab to navigate row-wise, enter to navigate column-wise, create new property when leaving the last row).
- And other things I can't think of right now.
Is there a reason for doing page-up/down rather than alt+arrows?
Alt+Arrows is currently taken for the camera movement. You will be able to completely customize this in the next version though. I agree that Alt+up/down would also make sense given that Alt+Mouse will move things vertically.
This May Be A Stupid Question...
#132 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/04 00:41:28
But is there a way to group together brushes? I had a look through the Help document but couldn't find anything. It would make things a hell of a lot faster.
I generally create a set of pre-fabs to work with (saves time, keeps everything looking consistent).
Also, WIP of Deck 16 remake (completely done in TB) -
http://s24.postimage.org/ov1vd2out...
http://s7.postimage.org/jht6up70r/...
#133 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/04 00:43:34
I think the only way is to create a func_group entity with everything inside that you want grouped. They are added to the worldspawn at compile time...
#134 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/04 00:48:13
Make sure you add -group to your compiler or it will treat it like a normal brush entity. Adding -group is what makes the compiler merge those func_group entities as if they were normal brushes.
Oh And
#135 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/04 00:48:27
those are great shots, FifthElephant.
...
#136 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/04 00:59:33
I mean to make a kind of prefab that I can copy and paste to save time. Or is making a group entity how you do it?
Also thanks... This editor has really put the fun back into mapping!
#137 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/04 01:07:56
For now, yes. So select the brushes of the bits you want to be the prefab and right click and make it into a func_group (RMB -> Create Brush Entity -> Group).
This is actually a hold over for how it was done in radiant editors because they do not use a special map format.
Eventually, I think the plan is to create prefabs in external map files that you can then load into your actual map and then rotate, move, etc... (ie: they are not just pasted in, if you edited the original, then all the instances of that prefab would be updated).
Buhhhh
#138 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/04 01:09:10
should be:
RMB -> Create Brush Entity -> Func -> Group
FifthElephant
#139 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/04 01:26:48
Seeing Deck16 in Quake base textures fills me with joy :]
Doh...
#140 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/04 01:58:37
I'm using Necros's compiling tool and it doesn't have a -group checkbox (I tried adding it manually in the folder setup but it said unknown option 'group') :P
I might just persevere with clicking on brushes like a maniac than having to
Thanks Spiney, it's smaller than the original but it will tighten up the gameplay a lot more.
#141 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/04 02:16:58
Because all compilers have their own switches, I left the creation of the buttons up to the user. Right click in an empty space to create a new button. :)
Which compiler are you using?
#142 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/04 02:51:41
I'm using the BJP tools that just came out -
http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
#143 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/04 03:28:03
That's odd, the tool reports that it has -group support.
You added -group into the command line arguments textbox in my compiler UI, it said unknown option in the dos box that pops up when you try to compile?
Gizmo Argument
#144 posted by Vondur [195.218.191.148] on 2013/03/04 08:31:40
i totally agree with herr sleep. gizmo is good for 3d modeling editors, but even there, there's possibility to move objects not clicking on gizmo. (in maya it's middlemousebutton, but you have to fucking ctrl-click on an axis first to set the plane of movement). personally i'm trying to avoid using gizmo in maya, but it reigns there and forces me to click on it sometimes. and modeling in maya is more precise and complex by nature than messing with simple brushes, so gizmo there is indeed more useful.
and trenchbroom totally dropped this precise clicking on gizmo which rocks. you rly don't need it because there're hotkeys (soon to be customized).
#145 posted by quaketree [76.14.42.216] on 2013/03/04 08:45:51
Sorry, but TB requires shaders. I'll add minimum system requirements to the website.
Yeah. I kinda figured that which is why I mentioned it. No big deal, it's my fault that I was using such an old platform. I'm glad to hear that you're putting up minimum system requirements so someone else doesn't run into the same issue.
Necros
#146 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/04 10:17:12
That's exactly right. It's no big deal really.
Gizmos
#147 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/04 13:47:09
Were never a nice solution, after reading everything I'm relieved to see you've gone with the 'anything but' option.
Locking to an axis by a key press is much neater.
As to entity management, it'd be nice to have (another) worldcraft feature - the entity report.
https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/0/A...
( Sorry for the retarded link - Dropbox decided to 'upgrade' their previously working frontend, apparently. )
Basically the entity report allows searching of entities by keyflags / type / spawnflags in an additional text window.
Lower priority than the fixed texture projection, but would be good.
I can see it becoming a more evolved system, that doesn't depend on a load of floating boxes pointing to level logic.
May be wishful thinking, but if you apply the same approach to entity mangement as you have to brushes then it'd be just as awesome.
As per your earlier comment, I don't want the WC entity report, my request is for 'a nice way to work with entities...'
And Congrats, Trenchboom is famous!
Entity Report
#148 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.106.45] on 2013/03/04 13:59:23
Well, that looks like an extension to the search and filter feature from the View inspector. I was thinking of improving the search syntax to allow stuff like "spawnflags = 1 AND classname = "monster_ijed", would that be a good replacement for that functionality?
What do you mean, famous? Carmack's tweet? Yeah, that felt quite nice!
Hah
#149 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/04 14:55:10
Yeah the tweet - and this morning in the office someone (who isn't involved in Quake) started talking to me about a "the new Quake editor" :)
They actually arrived here and recognised my handle in the comments - which was weird.
I admit I haven't gone into the entity implementation properly yet, my earlier comments were just based on the brush editing.
Improving the search functionality would be ok, but I can imagine something more revolutionary. Like not visualising any pure-logic entities in the level, only physical entities. But also showing physical entities in the 'edit entity pane' - which would support all the current and suggested functionality.
That would be a ton of work though.
I'll have some more useful feedback over the coming week, as I try to get my current project converted over.
Ijed
#150 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.106.45] on 2013/03/04 15:01:39
That is mighty cool, it seems that a lot of people saw that (yet I didn't hear from anyone but the people on the forums I posted it on).
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean about the entity functionality you are proposing. By "not visualizing" you mean hiding them from the view? That would be easy if there was a way to identify "pure logic" entities. Not sure that there is, but it could be added to the FGD / Def files.
"Showing physical entities in the edit entity pane" - By "edit entity pane" you mean the entity inspector (second tab on the right)? But what do you mean by "showing physical entities" there?
Sorry if I'm being daft, maybe it's a language thing. Could you elaborate a bit?
It's Not You
#151 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/04 15:29:16
I tend to explain ideas elliptically / badly.
you mean hiding them from the view? Yes, but this would mean making the entity inspector powerful enough so that it wouldn't be necessary. The complex logic systems usually needed for set pieces in a map aren't helped by having the various entities visible in 3D space. There are much nicer systems that logic tree front ends but that'd be a lot of work to include.
More than anything this would be a new layer of interface.
By "edit entity pane" you mean the entity inspector?
Yes.
what do you mean by "showing physical entities" there?
Anything that is only logic wouldn't be visible, but other entities, for example "monster_thing" would be visible as well.
So a setup of:
monster_thing
monster_thing
monster_thing
+
trigger_counter
=
func_door
would have the door and monsters visible in 3D but not the trigger counter. All however would be shown in the entity inspector.
All of this is kind of dancing around the feature I'm suggesting though, which is referred to as a Visual Scripting Editor.
There are many different implementations of this, from very simple to extremely complex. Having a Quake version would be yet another evolutionary leap.
Ideas like the WC Entity Report or even the original id1 path system eventually evolved into Visual Scripting Editors.
Which are just more intuitive or user friendly ways of setting up level logic.
What I've written here is so open ended it could take years of work, whereas a more elegant and direct solution could provide the same functionality and take half a day. I need to get into the guts of the editor more to make more feasible suggestions. Converting over my current stuff should provide that though :)
Ijed
#152 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.106.45] on 2013/03/04 15:39:09
Now I understand what you want. We should discuss this more when the other, more essential features have been implemented.
Of Course
#153 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/04 16:10:58
Lower priority.
My Issue With Gizmo Vs Non-gizmo
#154 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/04 16:59:51
If it can be done without, that's great. However I find myself using the arrow keys more and more. The question to me is whether a slower and more calculated approach will save time in the end over a loose approach that requires more moves to complete. The current approach requires to switch the view constantly to get into a decent position to move stuff. I used to do sub-d modeling in Silo where pressing crtl will let you move vertices around parallel to the viewport. That's highly intuitive, but over time I found myself evolving to the 'slower' method of doing per axis movement since I didn't need to rotate the view constantly in order to get precise tweaks. So, I personally often prefer to take the ugly and slow 'long shortcut'... mileage might vary
FifthElephant
#155 posted by rebb [80.141.108.208] on 2013/03/04 17:02:28
Are you getting an error from the compiler or from the GUI frontend ? The compiler should definitely support this.
#156 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/04 17:04:04
So, I'm just saying, if you can find something that keeps things as simple and straightforward as they are now, it's win-win. But I just feel more precise movement would save me a lot of time in the end, and I'm skeptical a non-gizmo thing can do that. They've been in virtually all 3D packages for almost 2 decades now which should account for something. But at the same time I would honestly love to be proven wrong.
Rebb
#157 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/04 17:19:36
I get an error from the command line when I run the compiler and the BSP fails to run. (error code 01)
Gizmos
#158 posted by Kinn [86.163.3.118] on 2013/03/04 17:26:54
For me, the best thing about gizmos is it means you can securely move an object in any direction without having to get the camera view in a better position, and more importantly you don't have to keep holding different keys on the keyboard.
#159 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/04 17:34:45
So, I'm just saying, if you can find something that keeps things as simple and straightforward as they are now, it's win-win. But I just feel more precise movement would save me a lot of time in the end, and I'm skeptical a non-gizmo thing can do that. They've been in virtually all 3D packages for almost 2 decades now which should account for something. But at the same time I would honestly love to be proven wrong.
Oh No, It's My Evil Twin Brother!
#160 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/04 17:35:51
Seriously Though, Same IP, What The Hell...
#161 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/04 17:38:41
#162 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.5] on 2013/03/04 17:48:23
You refreshed the page. Your browser sucks.
"Gizmo"
#163 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/04 18:20:30
Can mean whatever its perceived as.
The task requirement is 'tool that allows precision movement along specified axis'.
Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue though.
...
#164 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/04 18:21:16
...
#165 posted by Spiney [91.177.35.210] on 2013/03/04 18:25:13
TrenchBroom 1.0.4
#166 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.106.45] on 2013/03/04 21:21:29
Changes
- Improved Quake.fgd and Quoth2.fgd (thanks negke!).
- Improvements to clipboard pasting.
- Fixed a crash bug when loading maps with invalid brushes.
#167 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/04 21:42:28
I saw this in the notes for 1.0.3 and wanted to say that:
"Objects are no longer displaced when duplicated"
This is still offsetting duplicated things for me. Do I need to clear a config file or something? I checked the About box and it said 1.0.3 ...
#168 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/04 21:45:59
Same with 1.0.4 ... heh.
Am I interpreting that correctly as saying ctrl+d shouldn't be offsetting anymore?
#169 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/04 21:59:24
I think it *should* displace but should only displace one grid block toward you.
#170 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/04 22:12:20
Displacing sucks. :) We've talked about it already but every time it displaces my duplicate, I have to move it back into place before working with it. It's almost never what you want...
Willem
#171 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.106.45] on 2013/03/04 22:14:31
I made an error, the displacement will be gone in 1.1. Sorry!
#172 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/04 22:34:07
Heh, no worries! Thanks...
#173 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/04 23:54:27
I just realised that CTRL+D displaces by a small amount rather than the huge amounts that Copy and Paste are doing... I've wasted so much time (also, if you're duping brushes you're moving it somewhere else, plus it's better that it displaces so that you don't accidentally dupe multiple times without noticing).
#174 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/05 01:14:51
You'd think that, logically, but my experience says otherwise. Over time it becomes far easier to dupe in place and then move it since at least one of the axis that it got bumped on is going to be wrong.
#175 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/05 01:55:51
yeah, that is my experience with it also. I almost always follow a Ctrl+D with a Up and Left to push the brush back to the original spot.
Re: Ijed's Post About Not Visualizing Logic Entities
#176 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/05 02:19:07
There is something like this in Quark.
The big difference with quark vs (afaik) all other editors is that there is a tree view of the entire map where you see individual entities and brushes as nodes in the tree, grouped by brush entities or user made group folders.
entities that are defined in a certain way (for example: trigger_relay, trigger_counter) do not appear in the map at all, only in the tree view. Since quark407 was the first editor I used, I was really confused about how script entities were like when I went over to radiant.
I actually still find them very cumbersome having all these boxes floating around with lines going everywhere. They are a very poor method of doing any kind of scripting.
There is a downside though: when you load a map like this in other editors, you end up with a giant pile of overlapping script entities all at '0 0 0'. :\
#177 posted by Razumen [142.165.135.33] on 2013/03/05 07:50:50
This looks really interesting! Is there any plans to support other closely related Quake1-engine games? Specifically: Hexen 2?
I REALLY need a better editor for the levels I am making...
Other Games
#178 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.102.19] on 2013/03/05 09:04:44
Quake 2 and 3 are on my todo list. You're the second person to ask for Hexen 2 support. I have no idea what would be necessary to support that game though. But I'll look into it once I start supporting other games.
#179 posted by negke [31.18.172.250] on 2013/03/05 09:20:32
I think all it takes to make it support a wide variety of (id-engine) games are surface/brush flags and patches (curves). Everything else is a matter of having a proper fgd. Quest 2.4, for instance, supported HL, Hexen 2, Sin, and several Q1-3 mods out of the box with this additional fuctionality.
Having some visual representation of entity linking would be nice (target#/killtarget#->targetnam... of course, it would have to be toggleable to avoid a mess. necros, I usually place script entities close to their area of action for easier accessiblity. But, yes, things like relay and counters can be at 0 0 0, or even lack an origin field altogether. However, the editor must have an entity list then (TB needs one, too, if it doesn't have it already).
Entity List
#180 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.102.19] on 2013/03/05 09:28:03
There will be a Quark-like tree of everything the map contains in a future version.
Target link visualization is also on my todo list.
Version 1.0.4.129
#181 posted by digs [92.50.131.158] on 2013/03/05 09:32:48
Again can't run.
In log file many lines like:
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:30: Loading 'progs/player.mdl' (searching )
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:30: Unable to find MDL 'progs/player.mdl'
In the end:
WARNING: 30:1: implicit cast from int to float
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:31: Fragment shader(s) linked, vertex shader(s) linked.
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:31: Fragment shader(s) linked, vertex shader(s) linked.
WARNING: 30:1: implicit cast from int to float
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:31: Fragment shader(s) linked, vertex shader(s) linked.
And then there is the same window with an error that is repeated many times
Digs
#182 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 09:41:15
Sorry if I asked you before, but what's your OS, graphics card and driver? I'll create a report for it, maybe I can fix it.
#183 posted by digs [92.50.131.158] on 2013/03/05 09:59:47
Windows 7 Pro
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Series
Driver:
Provider: ATI Technologies Inc.
date: 04.08.2009
Version: 8.635.0.0
#184 posted by digs [92.50.131.158] on 2013/03/05 10:00:33
Win 7 x64
Your Driver Is Very Outdated
#185 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 10:04:40
I suggest you update it. I have seen crash bugs go away for several people after they updated their drivers. Just ask Scampie ;-)
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownl...
#186 posted by digs [92.50.131.158] on 2013/03/05 10:35:24
Yes, now run. Thanks!
No Problem
#187 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 10:43:57
Have fun with it!
King Of The Outdated Drivers :D
#188 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/03/05 10:47:38
You're Missing Something
#189 posted by RickyT23 [81.151.59.16] on 2013/03/05 10:48:30
A paypal donate button on the main Trenchbroom page.
No-one Has Asked The Most Important Question...
#190 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/05 11:08:53
Why is it called Trenchbroom anyway?
Necros
#191 posted by ijed [186.37.203.46] on 2013/03/05 11:17:06
Ah, I forgot about Quark. Only used it briefly since I started with WC. Tree view sounds about right.
Maybe to mitigate the downside new logic entities could be offset 16 units, even though they're not seen.
Paypal
#192 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 11:50:02
This is just a hobby for me, and I'm happy if people like the editor (and use it to create maps). I doubt I'd get a lot of money from it, and I don't really need it, either. Not that I'm rich, but I have a job that's paid well enough to support me and my family.
FifthElephant
#193 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 11:51:39
Nobody has asked because these crusty Quake senior citizens already know the answer.
Back in the day, one of the most popular and respected deathmatch map review sites was RAMSHACKLE. You can view an archive of the site here: http://bit7.org/quake/mirrors/rams...
The author of the reviews, Jeff Yost, was quite fond of using the term 'Trench Broom' to describe the double-barreled shotgun. Of course, the phrase has its origins elsewhere, but Jeff placed in the collective Quake consciousness via his entertaining reviews.
The Name
#194 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 11:52:04
The name "TrenchBroom" is in reference to The Ramshackle, a Quake DM map review site by Jeff Yost. He kept referring to one of the Quake weapons (either the Shotgun or the GL) as "TrenchBroom".
I like the sound of the word, also it's rare enough that it's google friendly, and it references a Quake website that has been defunct for > 10 years now.
What's not to like?
Entity Properties
#195 posted by Toomaa [193.77.158.102] on 2013/03/05 11:55:11
First of all, good work with the editor! I love the simplified 1-view only interface.
So, I decided to make something for Q1 again after 10+ years and one thing that confuses me are entity properties. I know I can add new keys, but shouldn't there be some predefined keys for let's say trigger_once? Is there any way to find which keys a specific entity has?
Edit: Entity Properties
#196 posted by Toomaa [193.77.158.102] on 2013/03/05 12:03:02
Ok, I was lazy and didn't bother to read previous comments.
Only the last question remains: Is there any way to find which keys a specific entity has? Or should I check other editors for reference?
Thanks and keep on with the work :)
Toomaa
#197 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 12:13:40
Right now, this information is not displayed in TB. I plan to greatly improve entity editing support, but it will take a while. For now, you can open the Quake.fgd file and look at it.
I Have The Answer To The Duplicate Dilemma.
#198 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 12:30:01
It also brings about a decent productivity boost.
Firstly, the answer to the question of whether or not to translate an object created by using the standard duplicate operation is quite obvious. You should always move it away from the original object. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why people want it to remain in place for faster re-positioning, but I don't think this is the answer - the danger of leaving objects on top of each other is too high. Yes, if you're paying attention you're fine, but there's always a chance that you'll hit duplicate accidentally (or repeatedly), or that you'll get distracted for a while and forget you've cloned the object when you return. You are then left with unwanted brushes which you will not be aware of - as far as I can tell, brushes in TrenchBroom don't z-fight if they are placed on top of each other either (even if they have different textures applied). This makes it impossible to know there's a problem if you're not looking for it.
Mr Fribbles, I don't want to hear problems, I want to hear solutions!
OK, here's the answer (or a suggestion, at any rate): an additional set of commands (and corresponding shortcuts) to duplicate and offset the selected object(s) in one go. I would suggest the hotkey set listed below (opinion alert, I'd also remap some of the current ones!)
LEFTARROW: move object left
RIGHTARROW: move object right
UPARROW: move object forward
DOWNARROW: move object back
CTRL+LEFTARROW: rotate object left
CTRL+RIGHTARROW: rotate object right
CTRL+UPARROW: move object up
CTRL+DOWNARROW: move object down
CTRL+SHIFT+LEFTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone left
CTRL+SHIFT+RIGHTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone right
CTRL+SHIFT+UPARROW: duplicate object and move the clone up
CTRL+SHIFT+DOWNARROW: duplicate object and move the clone down
Naturally you'd offset the object by the current grid amount (if snap to grid is on). If grid snap was off, pick your poison (a sensible default distance, or perhaps something clever such as offsetting the object by its width in the chosen direction!)
Hmm
#199 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 12:35:37
Maybe the entire concept is not so good. Maybe it would be better to always duplicate objects just by dragging them, e.g. Ctrl+Drag will create a clone and move that.
OTOH, I wanted to use Ctrl+Drag to select multiple objects in a future version. But that could still be achieved if the drag starts with an unselected object. If it starts with a selected object, the selected objects would be cloned.
Frib
#200 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 12:37:09
I could add keyboard shortcuts as well, of course.
Let's Try That Again
#201 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 12:38:40
(Because I done fucked up!)
LEFTARROW: move object left
RIGHTARROW: move object right
UPARROW: move object forward
DOWNARROW: move object back
CTRL+LEFTARROW: rotate object left
CTRL+RIGHTARROW: rotate object right
CTRL+UPARROW: move object up
CTRL+DOWNARROW: move object down
SHIFT+LEFTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone left
SHIFT+RIGHTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone right
SHIFT+UPARROW: duplicate object and move the clone forward
SHIFT+DOWNARROW: duplicate object and move the clone back
CTRL+SHIFT+LEFTARROW: duplicate object and rotate clone left
CTRL+SHIFT+RIGHTTARROW: duplicate object and rotate clone right
CTRL+SHIFT+UPARROW: duplicate object and move the clone up
CTRL+SHIFT+DOWNARROW: duplicate object and move the clone down
Combine these with well chosen grid settings and you will be an unstoppable Quake editing beast of righteous fury.
Why Not Just
#202 posted by Kinn [86.163.3.118] on 2013/03/05 12:38:49
have "duplicate offset" in the options menu
That way, (most i think?) people can set this as (0,0,0), whilst others who prefer it to be offset can give it a different value.
Oh Wait
#203 posted by Kinn [86.163.3.118] on 2013/03/05 12:40:24
Maybe the entire concept is not so good. Maybe it would be better to always duplicate objects just by dragging them, e.g. Ctrl+Drag will create a clone and move that.
OTOH, I wanted to use Ctrl+Drag to select multiple objects in a future version. But that could still be achieved if the drag starts with an unselected object. If it starts with a selected object, the selected objects would be cloned.
this sounds like an even better idea.
RE: RE: Paypal
#204 posted by RickyT23 [81.151.59.16] on 2013/03/05 12:47:02
Well I read the 'free for beer' part, and thought 'Well, I can't buy him a beer directly - where do I donate?!'. And I actually went looking for the Paypal donate button. But there was none. So....
If I thought of it, others must have (surely :)
Maybe there'll be a few beers in it for you if you give us the means to buy you one!
You see I tried the editor, and I was so impressed and excited that it's a live project, I thought it WAS worth a beer.
Hmm
#205 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 12:47:31
Fribbles, I think your proposal will interfere with other actions which are done using the arrow keys. Also I don't like the clone + rotate options because it can create the same problem as duplicate in place if the brush is symmetric. Also I'm not sure how often it's necessary to clone + rotate in place. And it's not much more work to clone-drag, then rotate.
Beer
#206 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 12:48:31
Is always welcome, and if any of you guys is ever in Berlin (or I am near your place), you can buy me as many beers as you like (and I can drink).
SleepwalkR
#207 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 12:49:56
I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to thank you for making this, porting it over and continuing to support it!
This editor is full of win. I'm waiting till I have more time to fully dive into it (ok, full disclosure, I also really need the free fly mode before I can really get into it - I'm just too accustomed to it because of Radiant and my editor at work).
There's a lot to like here though! Quite frankly I'm amazed at how slick and easy to use this is. Top shelf!
SleepwalkR
#208 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 12:55:34
Yeah, the last commands are just fruity bonus ones (although I do use the dupe + moveup/down a fair bit at work in our editor). I understand that some of what I proposed differs from or conflicts with the current paradigm.
Another limitation/difference you will note is that I favour moving the objects up/down using CTRL+UP/DOWNARROW which conflicts with the rotation commands in TrenchBroom. My reasoning is that moving up and down is a much more common activity than rotating up/down.
Of course, if the actions are there and can be remapped by the user, everybody wins.
Frib
#209 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 13:00:42
Thanks, I'm happy to hear that you like it. Flythrough mode will happen in 1.1, due in a couple of weeks.
And you will be able to customize the keyboard in 1.1, too, so there's no point in discussing the current selection of keyboard shortcuts ;-).
Hah!
#210 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 13:18:46
I'll keep my stupid suggestions to myself then. (Oh yeah you wish!) Here's a few more random thoughts and what have you.
Copy/paste transform
Useful for quickly repositioning objects or replacing stuff. "I want that thing over here." As you expect by now I offer key combo suggestions!
CTRL+SHIFT+C = copy transform of currently selected object
CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste selected object to saved transform
Gizmos and widgets
Stick to your guns and find the right solution for TrenchBroom. Let's be real and admit that certain things (such as small movement manipulators and fully mouse driven camera controls tee hee) can waste time and reduce productivity.
Mouse wheel to resize stuff
Just a suggestion. Get rid of the mouse wheel to zoom the view, and make it resize the brush according to the currently selected face. For example, select a face and mouse wheel up/down would effectively move that face positive/negative along its normal or the closest axis, whatever. Wheeeee! (The current method is fine, just for fun and freestyling.)
Texture flip request
Please make the flip operations work for the currently selected face (that is, change the scale to -1 (or negative<current value>) horizontally or vertically, whichever was chosen. Toggle it back to positive if it was already negative. Do this and you may genuinely never need to use the texture dialogue to enter manual offsets which would elicit a loud and hearty FUCK YES from everyone who ever used a level editor.
><((((º>
#211 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 13:45:48
Ok, two more things and then I'll shut up for the night.
Selecting objects
Area select would be welcome of course, but please additionally consider paint select (both for brushes and faces) ala GtkR because it's just so fucking good.
Toggle brush outlines
Apologies if this has been mentioned (or can already be changed), but is there a way to toggle the white brush outlines? It's useful and I'd prefer to have it on most of the time, but sometimes I'd like to be able to turn it off to get a better idea of how things will look in game (or to see how well certain faces/textures sit with each other at the very edge, without the visual distraction).
#212 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/05 13:51:21
In terms of the duplicate argument I guess this is one time where I wouldn't be too opposed to a checkbox in the preferences:
[ ] Offset duplicates?
Then it either offsets based on your grid settings or it doesn't.
There seem to be strong opinions on each side of that one.
#213 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.227] on 2013/03/05 13:56:46
You guys have to try the texture editing in Quark some day, because it rocks.
I also really miss the tree view of brushes and entities from it. It makes organising a map, selectively hiding or disabling parts, copy'n'pasting, mass changing things so easy.
-group Problem And My Stupidity
#214 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/05 13:57:35
To appease rebb's brilliance and my idiocy it turns out I wasn't using his compiling tools at all, which is why it wasn't compiling func_groups properly. Sorry Rebb!
#215 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.227] on 2013/03/05 13:59:08
Duplication:
Maybe make the duplicated content selected and "moving" when moving the mouse. Leftclick places where it is shown, rightclick places it in the original location.
Or paste it in place if the mouse cursor was on the selection. Otherwise place it at the mouse cursor.
Frib
#216 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:01:41
Copy/paste transform
Can you explain this a bit more? I don't quite understand what you mean.
Mouse wheel resize
I like the current control scheme and I think that the current way of resizing brushes is better (allows you to also change back faces).
Texture flip
That sounds useful - will implement this.
Selecting objects
If by paint select you mean "select everything touched by the mouse while holding Ctrl", then that's already on my todo list.
Toggle brush outlines
You can already do this in the view tab (Toggle "Render Edges").
Toggle Brush Outlines
#217 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/05 14:01:55
You can switch these off, click "view" on the right and deselect "render edges"
#218 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/05 14:02:39
Fribbles
There's a checkbox on the "View" tab for the brush outlines.
Willem
#219 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:02:44
I think if I get rid of the Duplicate command altogether and just let people use Ctrl+Drag to duplicate, that would elegantly resolve this discussion.
#220 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/05 14:03:00
Oh lawd...
Spirit
#221 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:04:30
Texture editing will get an update in a future version where you will be able to move / rotate textures with the mouse. I also plan to add an "Align" button to the Face inspector which will align the texture to the brush edges (you can iterate through the edges by pressing the button repeatedly).
The tree view was in the Mac version of TB and it will eventually make a reappearance in this version.
Woah, Hold Up There Son
#222 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 14:04:58
Why for no CTRL+D!? DO YOU HATE SPEED AND EFFICIENCY? :P
Willem
#223 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:05:56
Don't like the idea?
Frib
#224 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:07:00
I'll leave it in if people want it, but I think that the most common operation is to duplicate something and then move it to another location. How is Ctrl+D + Mouse Drag more efficient than Ctrl+Mouse Drag?
Copy & Paste Transform
#225 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 14:09:08
SleepwalkR, the idea here is to simply copy the position of an object, allowing you to paste something to that location.
For example if you have a brush or entity at (64, 0, 128) for example, you could copy that position and then paste something to that location later (whether or not the original object is still there doesn't matter).
It's useful for replacing objects sometimes, and also just to get some crap from the other side of the map to where you want to be quickly.
SleepwalkR
#226 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 14:12:15
The difference is, not everybody wants to drag it with the mouse. I'd prefer to use the keyboard shortcuts to move stuff when it makes sense to do so (for greater accuracy and/or speed).
This would be particularly true once you add the fly camera mode, so you could stay in that mode (assuming it's a toggle) and not have to turn it off to move something. (I'm assuming like Radiant and Hammer, you'd lock the cursor to the middle of the screen when engaging free fly mode so as not to allow it to drift out of the viewport).
Frib
#227 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:15:01
Interesting idea. But I think it already does this, because if you paste while something is selected, the pasted stuff is positioned such that the grid-snapped center of the bounds of the objects of the clipboard is at the same position as the grid-snapped center of the current selecction.
So the workflow would be like so: You go to the other end of the map and copy some shit. Then you go to its destination position, select something that's rougly where you want the copied shit to go, and paste.
The only thing you can't do is repeadly transport objects to a target destination without returning to that destination. I guess this is where camera bookmarks, also a planned feature, will come in handy ;-).
#228 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/05 14:15:31
SleepwalkR
No, sorry, your idea sounds good. I was referring to the 3 duplicate answers in a row. :P
Render Edges
#229 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 14:16:40
I see the 'render edges' option now. I completely missed that before. Thanks everyone! (I will now request a keyboard shortcut to toggle it in a very small voice... please, sir...)
Rant
#230 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/05 14:20:38
For duplicating, I like the sound of selecting and dragging something while holding a key (shift or whatever). That's a pretty comfortable method I've seen in various editors and 3d apps.
The complex multiple key methods and with fixed offsets always feel clunky.
The texture argument is moot. Sorry. No matter how good a set of texture controls in another editor might feel, worldcraft wins because it has those extended controls for texture projection. (Yes, the ones that break Worldcraft compatability with everything else...)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1go2qe6...
Those justify controls automatically scale and align the texture to the face. The align world/face controls change the projection to one that actually fits on a non-orthagonal surface. Aligning rotated textures is a doddle with the additional buttons for scale, rotation and shift.
Replace is very powerful as well, allowing you to change all instances of a texture in a level with a few clicks, or just select all instances and modify how they;re aligned, scaled or whatever.
For me at least, these controls made all the hassle of the valve 220 format worth it. If we could have that level of efficiency in texture application but not have to piss about converting textures then it'd be like mapping in the future.
Duplicate & Flythough Mode
#231 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:20:50
Frib, I'm not adverse to adding the copy + displace in one direction commands that you proposed.
I'm just saying that the duplicate command, whether it displaces by some constant amount in a direction that is dependent on the camera direction (the way it is now), or whether it doesn't displace at all, is not as useful because
- either it puts stuff where you don't want it or
- you might miss that you actually duplicated something (although the selection would flash white to give feedback) and end up with unwanted brushes.
I agree that it should be possible to duplicate stuff with the keyboard, but it should give the user the option to control where the duplicated stuff goes. So Ctrl+Direction keys to duplicate with the keyboard and Ctrl+Mouse drag to duplicate with the mouse. Problem solved.
#232 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/05 14:23:12
One idea that I loved from Hammer when I was doing Left 4 Dead mapping is that Valve does this great this where it pastes to the spot you're pointing at with the mouse. This is HUGELY useful for items and deco stuff.
You already have really good code for pointing into the world (the clipping tool and vertex modes obviously use it), so that would be easy to implement.
Paste Behaviour
#233 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 14:23:51
Interesting idea. But I think it already does this, because if you paste while something is selected, the pasted stuff is positioned such that the grid-snapped center of the bounds of the objects of the clipboard is at the same position as the grid-snapped center of the current selecction.
Hmm, it doesn't seem to do that for me (if it did, that would most likely be a fine solution as you suggest). It always pastes it at the same default distance from the camera here, and does not seem to be influenced in any way by the current selection.
Half Life 1 Support?
#234 posted by quakis [86.22.126.142] on 2013/03/05 14:24:11
Not exactly a request, just thinking out loud. Would it be possible? I can't think of any alternatives to WC/Hammer for HL1, but an editor like TB could be interesting.
Food for thought when supporting other games, perhaps?
Ijed
#235 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:24:31
The justify controls are what my Align button will do. The rest hinges on Valve 220 support, which is planned for release 1.2.
Texture replace is something that could be solved with the search filter. Just filter the map by the texture name you want to replace, select all faces, then switch to the face tab and select another texture.
Not sure if that will work currently, as the search filter is quite rudimentary, but if it doesn't I'll be happy to implement it.
Duplicate Functionality
#236 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.209.3.241] on 2013/03/05 14:25:57
Ctrl+Direction keys to duplicate with the keyboard and Ctrl+Mouse drag to duplicate with the mouse. Problem solved.
I understand now, and agree that that sounds like a good solution.
Err, Flythrough Mode Again
#237 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:26:46
I forgot to reply to that one.
The flythrough mode will allow you to keep editing. The cursor will be frozen in the center (as a crosshair), and you will be able to do anything just like before. Of course, moving stuff will also rotate the camera, but that doesn't seem to hurt as can be observed in this cool video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkF...
Frib
#238 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:27:52
The new copy and paste code is in the 1.1 codebase, sorry.
Willem
#239 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:28:38
In 1.1, paste will just paste in the original position (if nothing else is selected). I like your idea and will try it out.
I Love You! Awesome Editing Tool!
#240 posted by Skiffy [210.195.127.132] on 2013/03/05 14:30:30
Way to go! I am all about good tool pipelines for game development. Imagine what folks would have done back in the day if the developer tools allowed such an intuitive environment for level authoring. This rocks! I cant say enough how much I appreciate this project.
I have a big soft spot for the older retro games but I have become spoiled by the likes of UDK and unity for level editing. Going back to the old editors lacking a proper 3d editing environment is a big hurdle these days. We are so used to more polished programs.
I think you might just have injected new life into the older titles sir! If you add quake 2 support "KMquake2 entity support would be even better" then I would be lost for months on end making new content for that game.
Cheers and keep up the great work!
Skiffy
#241 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:32:17
Thanks, and Quake 2 and Quake 3 support is on my todo list. Quite a number of people are asking for it, so I guess it will happen rather sooner than later.
I don't know about KMquake2, is it a mod? If so, all you need is a proper entity definition file (TrenchBroom will load .FGD and .DEF files).
Well
#242 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 14:33:04
I mean to write "all you WILL need", because I'd have to do Quake 2 support first.
KnightMare
#243 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/05 14:36:13
Is a Quake2 mod, one that adds a massive amount of stuff.
#244 posted by Razumen [142.165.135.33] on 2013/03/05 15:14:51
Quake 2 and 3 are on my todo list. You're the second person to ask for Hexen 2 support. I have no idea what would be necessary to support that game though. But I'll look into it once I start supporting other games.
Thanks! The H2 community is pretty small but we'd all really appreciate it. I don't think there is that much of a difference between the engines, but I'll see if I can find any necessary details myself.
Razumen
#245 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 15:18:48
Yes, that would be helpful. When the time comes, I can also talk to Ozkan Sezer, who develops the uHexen2 engine.
Texture Alignment
#246 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/05 15:53:25
If anyone is wondering (and is making odd or very angular geometry) I have found the texture alignment on Tyr's tools to be more accurate when you use the -oldaxis command line argument on the bsp program. Dunno why this is though...
Yes
#247 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/05 16:07:54
Maybe we should mention this in the docs:
- In txQBSP, you must NOT supply the -altAxis argument for TrenchBroom.
- In Tyrann's tools, you must supply the -oldAxis argument for TrenchBroom.
The reason is in the method to select the projection axis for the textures. I'll add this to the issue tracker so that we can add it to the docs.
KMquake2
#248 posted by Skiffy [210.195.127.132] on 2013/03/05 17:25:54
Well its a recompiled quake 2 engine with tons of extra features added. Indeed it has the .FGD and .DEF files setup. Well sir you had my curiosity now you have my attention.
Cheers!
Thank You!!!!!
#249 posted by mechtech [65.190.42.20] on 2013/03/05 17:34:17
Time to put away the Hammer and pick up the Broom.
Just when it seems like things are slowing down around here. Out comes all these wonderful new toys.
Shit
#250 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/05 19:29:10
i read this thread lsat week and thought hmm that might be an editor suited for me, Dl'ed it installed crashed checked the req's dléd MS c++ crap, found out already had that installed. Then i see videocard drivers mentioned and im currently using my Mobo's gfx, meh (burned my gfx card on diablo3)
Quake.fgd
#251 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/05 20:03:31
Just noticed it's missing at least two standard entities: viewthing and misc_noisemaker. I suppose hardly anyone ever uses them, but they should be included still.
Aren't
#252 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/05 20:20:16
They both debug entities?
Yes
#253 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/05 20:25:08
They are.
Fair Enough
#254 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/05 20:37:15
Negke
#255 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.104.108] on 2013/03/05 20:44:26
Would you be so nice? Just send me the definitions in an email so that I can add them to both FGDs.
Orbs
#256 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.104.108] on 2013/03/05 20:45:00
It requires OpenGL 2.1 and GLSL 1.2. I should do a better job of detecting these things and not crashing, though.
AFAIK
#257 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/05 21:39:26
These should work;
@PointClass size(-8 -8 -8, 8 8 8) color(0 255 0) = misc_noisemaker : "debug entity" []
@PointClass size(-8 -8 -8, 8 8 8) color(0 255 0) = viewthing : "fake player" []
Thanks!
#258 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.104.108] on 2013/03/05 21:52:03
Should They Have The Appearflags Baseclass?
#259 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.104.108] on 2013/03/05 21:58:47
The Appearflags base class adds spawnflags for skill levels. Or should they have any other properties?
Also, should they also be added to Quoth2.fgd?
Ah
#260 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/05 22:55:26
I cobbled those together, removing the baseclass since the fgd I took the syntax from has more involved baseclass' for various things.
I'm guessing you want these for entity hacks negke?
Excuse My Noobiness
#261 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/06 00:23:44
I kind of know what opengl is, i dont know if my card supports 2.1 though, how do i find this out, should the manufacturer list this? Never heard about GLSL at al, same kind of thing? Something your gfxcard either can handle or not?
@Orbs
#262 posted by quaketree [76.14.42.216] on 2013/03/06 01:28:37
Basically if your cards original specs say that it can handle games with Shaders v2.0 then you "Should" be able to run this. It won't break anything to give it a try and see if this will run on your PC. In my case it stopped right after the console said something about loading shotgun.mdl.
You may need to update the video card drivers so that the card can handle Shaders 2.X but that's a software upgrade and I can't think of a reason why a 2.0 piece of hardware wouldn't be able to handle 2.X with the correct drivers.
Without more information this is as good as it can get as far as help goes. If you have a year of manufacture, make and model number of the original PC (2005 Dell abc201 for example) then maybe you can get more assistance here. If you added a gfx card on your own then you need to go to their web site and find the latest driver package applies to that card. Note that it will probably be either Nvidia or ATI\Radeon based so even if you get a card from a third party they should still be able to use their drivers (but perhaps not their consoles but that's usually not a problem as most installers give you the option to not install those anyway and just install the drivers instead).
2D Overview
#263 posted by Lava Croft [62.131.240.170] on 2013/03/06 12:27:43
I am loving the editor so far, but the lack of a 2D overview like in for example Radiant is annoying the hell out of me. There is no way to keep oversight on a big, complicated map with just the 3D view.
I think a 'free flying' camera mode was already suggested, so I'll not mention it. (Lies!)
Thank you once again for this editor, after years of dealing with either shit like WorldCraft or shit like Radiant, this is just so awesome.
Not Tried Yet But...
#264 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/06 13:03:12
One of the things I like most about Worldcraft is that to copy stuff you just shift + drag it to the new location. I find that so much better and more efficient than duplicate in place like in Maya, or duplicate with offset like in Radiant. It also has duplicate special that lets you copy and paste in place, or set rotations and offsets that accumulate from each copy (I never use this though, though I do in Maya.)
Lava, Than
#265 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.106.74] on 2013/03/06 13:10:02
I'm aware that 3D only is bad for overview and I'm thinking about ways to improve it.
Than, drag-duplicate is on the feature list for 1.1.
Not Needed 2D Views Yet..
#266 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/06 13:10:28
I think I find the opposite of what Lava Croft said is true, on bigger maps the 2d views simply become like muddled spaghetti, doing everything in 3d is making everything so much simpler (and fun, I'm enjoying every minute of mapping!).
Also, Than, you should try it. (I emailed you ages ago and I know you said you were going to take a break but this editor is so addictive, I'm not even going to reinstall Worldcraft).
SleepwalkR
#267 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/06 13:12:23
I had an idea, if you want to bash in a 2d mode why not have the 1,2,3 and 4 keys cycle through each grid plane? (that way you don't have to give up the real estate offered by a single window).
In Quark
#268 posted by Spirit [80.187.110.149] on 2013/03/06 13:35:10
2d views are fairly easy since it will grey out brushes that are not also visible in the other viewports.
I miss a 2d overview in tb too, especially if you want to quickly draw some floor plan. hotkeys would rock.
Floorplans, Relative Positions
#269 posted by Kinn [86.153.126.205] on 2013/03/06 13:40:15
Yeah, I think some sort of 2d mode is essential when blocking out.
for example I always need to bang down a load of brushes at precise relative positions from each other. Currently, let's say you have 2 brushes at arbitrary positions - in radiant it's really easy to set their relative positions just by looking at them in the 2 views. In TB I can't really do this sort of positioning...unless I missing something obvious?
Blah
#270 posted by Kinn [86.153.126.205] on 2013/03/06 13:42:06
looking at them in the 2 views
that should read:
looking at them in the 2D views
2D Mode
#271 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 14:15:11
The 2D mode would be a mini map that is either overlaid on top of the 3D view or shown in a separate window. It would not be used for editing at all, only to get an overview and for navigation.
Kinn, if you drag a brush, you will see laser beams coming from its bounding box. Those beams should help you to position brushes relative to each other. They are not useful for measuring the distance to other objects, but I can add that and show the distance to the closest object hit by a laser beam.
#272 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/06 14:25:35
What's funny is that I thought the laser beams were just graphical sugar at first but then I started leveraging them for positioning and aligning stuff and they're just absolute GOLD now.
Laser Beams
#273 posted by Kinn [86.153.126.205] on 2013/03/06 14:41:17
yeah, I don't really find the laser beams help that much tbh.
What happens is i have to set a camera view, then move the brush so the laser beams appear to be lined up in that view. Except, chances are they won't be actually lined up, and i have to change camera view, then rinse/repeat until i've actually got them lined up.
e.g. view 1: they look kinda lined up here:
http://i.imgur.com/oaGALu6.png
move the camera a bit though and see they are actually off in all 3 axes:
http://i.imgur.com/LSijyg8.png
#274 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/06 15:05:33
I still think if you're going to implement 2d views you should bind the main viewport to cycle the axis using keys 1-4... hopefully this will be possible using custom key binds. I'm getting along fine right now without 2d, but it would help on the odd occasion that I need really fine-control over what I'm doing.
Kinn & FifthElephant
#275 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 15:14:25
I agree that positioning brushes like this is cumbersome in 3D. It gets easier once you have more brushes, but if you're in the void, it doesn't work very well. Will have to think about that.
Cycling through 2D views - what for? The 2D view, as it is planned now, is only there for orientation. I specifically don't want to give the impression that you can use it for editing. I want to avoid that people try to click and drag objects in the 2D views. That would mean that the 3D only approach has failed.
If eventually it turns out that you really can't map without fully functional 2D views, I'll reconsider them, but only as a last resort. Or maybe this editor isn't for everyone. Let's give everyone some time to get used to it, and then we'll see what happens.
Meanwhile, if anyone has any ideas about how to improve the problems that Kinn is describing in post #273 WITHOUT falling back to 2D views, let's hear them!
Afterthought
#276 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 15:18:16
So, maybe you didn't notice it yet, but the laser beams leave a mark if they hit something. So if a laser beam hits a face, there will be a red dot where the face is hit.
But I think this doesn't work well if the laser beam hits face at an edge or vertex (sometimes the mark is shown, sometimes it isn't).
If I were to improve this so that the hit mark is shown reliably, would that improve matters? I guess it will still be difficult to know where to move the brush if it isn't aligned, though.
necros suggested freely positionable grid planes at some point. That would be a possible solution. The idea is that you can tell the editor to show a grid plane (either XY, XZ, or YZ) at a specific position which you can change with the mouse. Then you could basically just drop a grid wherever you need it and disable it again later.
2D Mode
#277 posted by Lava Croft [62.131.240.170] on 2013/03/06 15:23:32
The oversight is the most important factor for me, the ability to edit in 2D can be missed.
SleepwalkR
#278 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/06 15:27:15
I personally think the editor is very good, but if you were to include a 2d view then I think it'd be fairly sweet if you could use the number keys 1-4 to cycle through the various 2d grids (and 3d viewpoint) kind of how the Opera browser allows you to cycle through open tabs using the 1-4 keys.
That being said I really am doing *very* well without the 2d grid. I'm about 75% complete on the geometry of my first TB map, even managed to make some lovely curved wall templates. :)
#279 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/06 15:32:28
Or maybe this editor isn't for everyone
Yes, THIS. :) Software becomes bloated and awful when it tries to be everything to everyone. Focused design is key to awesomeness - even if it leaves some users behind.
Hmmm
#280 posted by Kinn [86.153.126.205] on 2013/03/06 15:41:26
I know i used to use a function in some modelling app - can't remember what it was - maybe solidworks?
Anyway - let's say you select a brush - brush A, and then ctrl-select a second brush - brush B.
I remember I then had options, something like: "Align A to B in Y-axis", or "Align A to B in Z-axis" etc etc.
It's a bit clunky though.
Help With Tutorials
#281 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 15:41:54
I would like to have some tutorials available for new users. There are several options:
- Included in the documentation as text + images.
- Hosted on a wiki to be set up on my website.
- Youtube videos (Daz, I'm looking at you!)
I'm thinking that there should be a combination of these. The editor should come with simple tutorials such as "My first room" and "How to compile my shit" etc. More advanced stuff should go in a wiki so that we can keep it up to date easily.
Daz, seriously, I dig your videos, so if you are up for it and find the time, I'd love it if you were to make a video tutorial or two. Your narration is also quite good, unlike mine which sounds like a steamrolled duck.
Kinn
#282 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 15:43:05
That indeed sounds a bit clunky because you have to think about which axis is which first. By I hadn't even considered alignment buttons, so I'll think about it - maybe I can find a way to make them work well.
#283 posted by Kinn [86.153.126.205] on 2013/03/06 15:45:36
Yes, THIS. :) Software becomes bloated and awful when it tries to be everything to everyone. Focused design is key to awesomeness - even if it leaves some users behind.
That depends on what the design goal is - if the goal is "be the best quake editor that only has a 3d view", then yes, but if the goal is "be the best quake editor", then you have to consider whether 2d views are a worthwhile addition.
SleepwalkR + Kinn
#284 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/06 15:49:53
I love that idea! Why not it snap to the face of the brush? Like the Alt + Click for textures?
So you select the face of the brush using shift + click, and then hold say M (for move) + click and it will push the faces together.
Goddamnit!
#285 posted by Kinn [86.153.126.205] on 2013/03/06 15:51:36
i was just about to post a similar suggestion - yes align to face - that would be elegant
Fifth
#286 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 15:52:35
That is not the problem Kinn is trying to solve. He wants to be able to align two brushes with each other, but only in two dimensions. They should keep a certain distance to each other.
Kinn, if I'm not mistaken you want this so that you can block out your layouts. Wouldn't it be easier to start with the floors though? Once you have a floor in place, it's much easier to keep the brushes aligned.
Now I'm Confused
#287 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 15:53:12
You just want to put brushes right next to each other so that they share a face?
Nope
#288 posted by Kinn [86.153.126.205] on 2013/03/06 15:54:56
so face A on brush A shares the same plane with face B on brush B
they wouldn't be pushed together, Brush A would be moved just so the faces line up on the plane of face B
Aha
#289 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 15:56:38
But that would only work if the two faces have the same normal.
I'm not so sure about this. It sounds like it's only of limited use. And you'd have to do it twice to have the brushes line up in two dimensions.
Yeah It's A Bit Messy
#290 posted by Kinn [86.153.126.205] on 2013/03/06 16:12:23
the earlier idea where you can only snap to one of the ortho axes of brush A's bounds is probably better.
#291 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/06 16:52:14
Once the faces are next to each other it wouldn't take much more effort to to press alt/click to line the other axis together. I think it'd work.
No
#292 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 16:56:04
You have to select a different face, then click on the face you want to align again. If you want to align several brushes, it gets even more cumbersome.
And it will only work if the faces have the same normal. There must be a better way.
#293 posted by Spirit [80.187.111.49] on 2013/03/06 17:02:58
what about showing coordinates of vertices the mouse pointer hovers and allow the user to move a brush by selecting it and typing in the coordinates (autocad style, just 123,53,67)? then one could fairly easily make two brushes/selections placed similarly as needed. the problem here would be determining what base point to use.
Spirit
#294 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 17:05:47
The coordinates are already shown when you hover over a vertex in vertex mode. But moving brushes by entering the deltas? I don't like that very much, I think a "align on XY / XZ / YZ" buttons would be better than that.
But Then
#295 posted by Kinn [86.153.126.205] on 2013/03/06 17:06:01
you're moving brushes around by typing numbers into boxes and suddenly it's getting a bit ugly and cumbersome.
2D Views
#296 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/06 17:16:37
I was going to weigh in on this one before, but didn't because I haven't been using the editor recently and so haven't seen the latest versions.
A 2D view should instead be described as a layout view or, better yet, and overview - just because this is the objective you're describing SleepwalkR.
I agree with Willem in that the goal of the editor should remain the same since this focus will produce a and more elegant end result.
An overview could easily be described as a 3D camera thats far away from the level. So in other words, you just zoom out. Or select a secondary camera that you placed wherever was best for seeing the overall layout.
This doesn't work for brushes because they have visible faces on all sides - you can't see what's inside the level unless you set some sort of 'editor skip' texture on the outside that doesn't get drawn.
Just a random idea. Automatically detecting what's inside or outside a level on the fly would be like dynamically vising it. Which probably isn't a good idea. And would probably break anyway with a WIP level that's being blocked out.
Another idea would be selecting groups of brushes and being able to assign them (another WC feature!) visgroups. So the user can just hide colelctions of brushwork as they see fit.
Then snap to various cameras to see the layout.
A 2D view would obligate having various 2D views - imagine looking at The Living End or Skinny Norris in an editor and you'll have completely different things to look at, ones that an orthographic 2D view isn't 100% suited to, I suspect.
Overview
#297 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 18:58:58
I suspect that 2D (or rather orthographic projection) is better suited for an overview mode simply because there's less visual clutter. To see what I mean, go to the View tab and set it not to render the faces, then zoom out of a larger level. You can't make out anything.
In a 2D view with ortho projection, there would be less clutter because points on edges with the same X and Y coordinates get drawn only once. Look at a cube from above with ortho projection and it's a square.
However, even if you do this, if there is a lot of geometry stacked on top of each other, you're still going to have problems to use this as an overview. I have been thinking about this problem and I guess what you need is a way to limit what is drawn in the 2D view by discarding everything that is not in a certain range on the Z axis. Then you can limit the map to a certain "storey" of your level. Add to that the ability to zoom in and zoom out and to place the (3D view's) camera, and this should be a helpful addition.
Think of this 2D view as the inverse of what the 3D view was in early editors, where it was mainly used to get an impression of how things will look in the game, and not a view where you did your editing. Now you do all your editing in the 3D view, but use the 2D view to an idea of the level's structure and to quickly navigate to different locations in the level.
I'm just not sure how to integrate this into the UI yet. There are several options:
- Additional window, possible floating above the main window.
- Integrate it into the editor UI, possibly below the inspector.
- Make it an overlay over the 3D view that you toggle on and off with a keystroke.
- The overlay could either be as large as the entire 3D view or
- The overlay could be smaller and just be in the upper right corner of the 3D view.
Or Slice The 3D View
#298 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 19:03:06
Another option could be to have a shortcut that enables a mode where the camera orbits around the entire level at a great distance. In this mode, the mouse wheel would not let you move the camera forward or backward, but it would control the distance between the camera and a "clipping plane".
This clipping plane will then be used to remove from the view everything that is closer than the plane's distance from the camera. (For OpenGL afficionados: Similar to the near clipping plane). That way you could slice away stuff from your level and look into it. There should also be a way to quickly leave this mode and transport the camera to a point of your choosing.
This would completely avoid the need for a 2D view, at least for the issue of the overview over the entire level.
Thoughts?
Random Thought
#299 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/06 19:06:29
Perhaps a 2Dish view integrated into the 3D environment where the camera switches to a front/top/side that's fixed with the axes. Like in isometric strategy games that allow you to watch the playfield from straight above. When active, the textures could become 75% transparent and the grid lines more prominently visible. Ideally with an adjustable farclip to make it less messy.
Negke
#300 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 19:07:12
Mac TrenchBroom had this, and it wasn't very useful. I like the slice mode better.
Hey That Was My Idea!
#301 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/06 19:07:13
Oh, I See
#302 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/06 19:07:33
It Was?
#303 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/06 19:09:40
I must have missed that.
#304 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/06 19:13:06
At a glance, your suggestion sounded somewhat similar.
Slice + Strategy View?
#305 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/06 19:56:22
#306 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/06 19:57:36
SleepwalkR
You mentioned needing tutorials and such. You might want to touch base with Alex over at:
http://www.worldofleveldesign.com/
I bet he'd be willing to do a whole series on TrenchBroom ...
Willem
#307 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.106.90] on 2013/03/06 20:20:03
Thanks!
According To Intell
#308 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/06 20:31:55
it should support 2.0 vertex shader and pixel shader support. Just checked the start up process, and mine crashes after the shotgun.mdl. Il try reinstalling the card
Meh
#309 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/06 21:30:34
stil same crashes
Orbs
#310 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.224.11] on 2013/03/06 21:42:41
Can you give me the manufacturer and model of your GFX card and the driver version?
Omfg
#311 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 14:06:48
Smooth 3d camera view! I never knew what I was missing using WC 1.6b all this time :)
This is seriously excellent work SleepwalkR! However, as a Wacom tablet user I find the camera navigation a bit of a pain in the ass because I don't have a scroll whell on my mouse. Is there any chance you could make the camera controls adjust when the alt key is pressed (assuming this doesn't get in the way of anything else)? I'm thinking holding alt would make the middle mouse and moving the mouse/pen move the camera forward and backward.
Anyone else use a Wacom for everything (not just photoshop/zbrush etc)?
More extensive filters and perhaps even some kind of visgroups like system would great, though I've not exactly spent much time with the editor yet, so I don't know quite what is and isn't possible.
One other thing I thought I had posted already, but maybe not, is that WC handles cloning by shift + drag object. This works great, though WC is a 2d editor, and the drag clone makes perfect sense in 2d, wheras it might be hard to do correctly in 3d.
Ah...
#312 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 14:09:01
I did mention the shift drag thing :)
Looking forward to trying 3d only editing now. I'm going to go through the docs and build a simple map I think.
By the way, I love how easy the set up is, and that TB uses the wadstring of the .map file. This is something WC does not do, and it sucks working on more than one map at a time because of it.
Than...
#313 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/07 14:11:00
I just use Ctrl + D to dupe objects... It's fairly quick to get something good whipped up.
I'm thinking of asking my friend to help me make a tutorial video (I can make levels but I can't make videos... wtf).
Than
#314 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 14:49:10
This is seriously excellent work SleepwalkR!
Thanks!
However, as a Wacom tablet user I find the camera navigation a bit of a pain in the ass because I don't have a scroll whell on my mouse. Is there any chance you could make the camera controls adjust when the alt key is pressed (assuming this doesn't get in the way of anything else)? I'm thinking holding alt would make the middle mouse and moving the mouse/pen move the camera forward and backward.
This is a good idea. I will include this in 1.0.5, to be released in a couple of days.
More extensive filters and perhaps even some kind of visgroups like system would great, though I've not exactly spent much time with the editor yet, so I don't know quite what is and isn't possible.
TrenchBroom currently lacks a proper group / layer system, but this is on the todo list. It will be based on func_groups, which I plan to extend so that you can add entities to them (currently a func_group can only contain brushes). This also gives you the ability to have hierarchical groups. Add to that a group browser where you can quickly hide and lock groups and it should be really powerful.
One other thing I thought I had posted already, but maybe not, is that WC handles cloning by shift + drag object. This works great, though WC is a 2d editor, and the drag clone makes perfect sense in 2d, wheras it might be hard to do correctly in 3d.
Yeah, this is on the todo list for 1.1.
More Suggestions
#315 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 14:55:29
God I fucking love this editor. Feels a bit clunky now, but that's just because I'm not used to it yet. Feels so fucking modern and awesome... I've been using WC 1.6a (last version 1998...) since I started mapping and have yet to find an editor I liked more. Trenchbroom is still lacking some of the nicer features of WC, but it's really amazing so far and has a lot of things WC 1.6a will never have, such as 3 point clipping and 3d editing that works (WC 1.6a actually has 3d editing for some modes, such as vertex manipulation, but it sucks)
+ shortcut to hide selection highlight and outlines
+ flat render mode should probably have shading based on face + camera normal
I wonder how you could go about implementing some kind of visgroup style system without breaking the map format. One thing you could do is perhaps have a func_group for each area you want to group that could have an name key that would be handled by Trenchbroom so that it is automatically loaded into visibility groups on map load and regrouped on save. This would presumably allow it to stay compatible with compilers, and with better filters, there would be no real need to have visgroups that support entities like WC has. However, you would need to be able to filter much better than you can currently. For example, filter by flags (e.g. not in dm, skill level), target, targetname, entity type (not just built in types) and perhaps even combinations would be amazing.
Also, a mode that renders faces with flagged textures as wireframe or translucent would be quite nice; It would be useful to be able to draw skip faces simply as wireframe for instance.
Hierarchical Groups
#316 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 14:59:01
Awesome! Are you planning on adding more extensive filters?
Btw, sorry I couldn't help with the Linux port. I wanted to but couldn't get it building, no matter how hard I tried :/
Btw
#317 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 15:02:51
Your vertex/edge editing mode is amazing! Fucking love it. WC worked ok, since you could select multiple vertices at once and use box selection on them for fairly quick editing, but it was horrible to use in the 3d view and didn't auto clump vertices, so editing rocks was a pain in the arse. TB handles this really well.
Clipper is just unbelievable too!
I love how clean and stable everything feels too! You guys have done a great job and I will probably switch over to TB and get mapping soon and help as much as I can with testing and feature suggestions, though if I have time I would love to actually try helping implement features.
Sorry To Keep Spamming
#318 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 15:08:40
Maybe it's just my weird brain, but grid shortcuts make more sense as powers of two btw. Since you can't map ctrl + 256, maybe ctrl+1 = 2 (2^1), ctrl+2 = 4 (2^2) etc. would make more sense. Is there any point in having grid size 1?
The only reason I am mentioning this is because I have a Japanese keyboard and ctrl + and ctrl - don't work :/ + and - work in WC 1.6a, but they are assuming my keyboard is US I think.
Than
#319 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 15:08:58
+ shortcut to hide selection highlight and outlines
Outlines can be hidden in the View tab, doesn't that also hide the selection outline? Oh, you want a shortcut for it. Okay, will add to the issue tracker.
+ flat render mode should probably have shading based on face + camera normal
I have added this to the issue tracker.
I wonder how you could go about implementing some kind of visgroup style system without breaking the map format.
func_groups get names and some status bits (hidden, locked etc.). If an entity is added to a group, it gets a key such as "_group" = "<name of that group>". That's all. Other editors will not understand it, but it won't bother them either. QBSP ignores all keys that start with an underscore.
Also, a mode that renders faces with flagged textures as wireframe or translucent would be quite nice; It would be useful to be able to draw skip faces simply as wireframe for instance.
This is already on the todo list.
Awesome! Are you planning on adding more extensive filters?
Yes, definitely.
Btw, sorry I couldn't help with the Linux port. I wanted to but couldn't get it building, no matter how hard I tried :/
No problem. I have fixed most issue with the Linux port, but I'm having trouble creating binaries for it. It seems that the compilation process is not compatible with how you create debian packages, so I'll have to write / adapt the makefiles. If anyone is versed in this, or knows someone who might be able to help out, I'd appreciate a shout.
We Should Get A Room Or Something
#320 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 15:14:10
Maybe it's just my weird brain, but grid shortcuts make more sense as powers of two btw. Since you can't map ctrl + 256, maybe ctrl+1 = 2 (2^1), ctrl+2 = 4 (2^2) etc. would make more sense. Is there any point in having grid size 1?
You will be able to customize all keyboard shortcuts in 1.1.
I love how clean and stable everything feels too! You guys have done a great job and I will probably switch over to TB and get mapping soon and help as much as I can with testing and feature suggestions, though if I have time I would love to actually try helping implement features.
Thanks again. The stability and level of polish is largely necros' achievement, he did lots and lots of testing for me and he was also a great help to get the user interface to be coherent. Coherence is a big thing for me, and I think it's one of the main reasons why the editor is so slick.
If you want to help out with programming, that would make me very happy. I'm doing this all alone in my free time, and it would be great to offload a bit of work here and there. I suggest that you create a fork on github as soon as you're ready and look at the source. Then you can claim a feature request on the issue tracker and start banging away. Once you're done, you just send me a pull request and I will integrate your changes in the master branch.
If you have any questions or need an introduction into TB's architecture and design, let me know and we can schedule a skype session or something.
Sorry To Keep Spamming
#321 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 15:16:50
Maybe it's just my weird brain, but grid shortcuts make more sense as powers of two btw. Since you can't map ctrl + 256, maybe ctrl+1 = 2 (2^1), ctrl+2 = 4 (2^2) etc. would make more sense. Is there any point in having grid size 1?
The only reason I am mentioning this is because I have a Japanese keyboard and ctrl + and ctrl - don't work :/ + and - work in WC 1.6a, but they are assuming my keyboard is US I think.
Will Do!
#322 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 15:20:18
(btw, sorry for that repost, I refreshed the page and something fucked up)
I'll fork it once I've had a bit more of a play with it and have a good idea of what things I would like to see in it. I wanted to make my own editor a while ago, and also wanted to do some open source stuff lately, so this would be a perfect project to help on :)
One Last Thing
#323 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 15:29:57
I'll shut up after this and start adding these ideas and feature requests in a sensible place, but some kind of export map support would actually be helpful I feel. Basically, have a button that saves the map to a default location with a set name without making Trenchbroom start to use that file as the current map would be great for compiling.
I'm not sure how many people do this, but I have a batch file set up for compiling that always uses a default file that I export from WC (always quake\id1\maps\current.map) and being able to auto save to this file would be handy. Currently if I save to that file, trenchbroom then continues editing with that file as the live file, which is not really what I want to do.
If this is something other people would like perhaps it would be a good thing to add?
Cool Editor Bro
#324 posted by NotoriousRay [74.107.82.97] on 2013/03/07 15:37:22
I like the 3d-only concept but I can't figure out how to do the simplest of things. Forgive my ignorance, it's been literally years since I've done any mapping.
1 - Since there's only the 3d view, when i click and drag to make a new brush, what determines what axis i'm dragging on? The camera angle?
2 - How do I resize a brush? When I select it it seems I can only move it or select individual faces. Is it only by vertex editing? Because-
3 - Similar to #1- I was trying to mitre two brushes together and just dragging the two corner vertices on a single brush never actually put them where I wanted. Is this just a matter of using clipping instead?
Notorious...
#325 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/07 15:40:34
The first brush in the empty void is always a bit of a pain.
You can pull brush faces across a plane by holding shift and click/drag.
No idea what you mean by mitre two brushes... you can select vertex editor by pressing V.
NotRay
#326 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 15:43:34
You should have a look at the documentation. It's all in there. But as I hate the "RTFM" folks, here are some pointers:
1 - Depends on what you're clicking on. If you start the drag in the void, then it's the camera angle. If you start your drag on another brush, it's the plane of the coordinate system that is most similar to the face's boundary plane.
2 - Hold Shift and move the mouse next to or on top of the face that you want to move. The face that will be moved is highlighted with a white outline. Then start dragging with the left mouse button to move that face.
3 - Vertices are only moved by fixed offsets and are not automatically snapped to the grid. If that is what you want, you must hold Shift while dragging the vertex. If you want to move the vertices vertically, you need to hold Alt while dragging.
Than
#327 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 15:45:09
That sounds like an obscure feature to me. If you can muster up other people who want this, then I'll add it, otherwise I'd rather leave it out because it's something you can easily change in your batch file.
Do other editors actually support this workflow?
Visgroups
#328 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/07 15:54:25
I thought of a simpler way this could be done than adding additional controls, although it'd only work for entities. How about hiding or not via keyvalues - say, everything with the name 'key_door' or of the class 'func_door'.
Just a series of bitflags, really, although detecting the targetnames of stuff would be more difficult.
Tutorial Videos...
#329 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/07 16:00:08
I am in talks with a friend who makes professional videos about making a few tutorial vids. Hopefully I can get it done, might not be straight away though.
Ijed
#330 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 16:04:29
That would be a use case for filtering, but groups are different. I think there are other reasons to make groups:
1. You want to be able to quickly select objects that belong together because they form an architectural feature, such as a door incl. its frame. The goal is to edit them as a group.
2. You want to be able to quickly hide stuff that forms an entire part of the level, such as a bunch of rooms with the interconnecting corridors. The goal is to unclutter the view.
I want to implement both functions using func_groups because then I can get by without extending the map format. As for additional controls, I think this could be nicely integrated with the planned map browser (tree of all objects in the map). Not sure yet. In any case, groups would have additional checkboxes for hiding and locking them individually.
FifthElephant
#331 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 16:05:21
Nice! That would be very cool!
Linux Support
#332 posted by mwh [86.143.157.197] on 2013/03/07 16:06:53
I've done a bit of debian packaging (and know people who have done a _lot_), I'll try to take a look at some point. It probably won't be until April though. so if someone beats me...
Local Rotation?
#333 posted by Skiffy [210.195.127.132] on 2013/03/07 16:07:05
Hello again. I have one question about rotation. Do you think you could add the option to use local object space for brush rotation? It would be nice to rotate the object and have the gizmo update with it instead of the default world space rotation axis.
I use this a lot in normal 3d modeling when placing decoration bits. It sure would make things like fallen over pillars easier to place with the ability to adjust their spin on their local z axis after you rotate them at odd angles.
Skiffy
#334 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 16:11:28
That would only work for one session with the rotation tool as brushes don't have local coordinate systems. And since you can achieve the same result be reordering your rotations, I don't think it's necessary?
Mwh
#335 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 16:12:11
Oh, that would be great. I plan to change the dependencies so that you don't have to make your own build of wxWidgets on Linux anymore, maybe it will be easier then.
Sleep
#336 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 16:15:00
Worldcraft only has it because it uses its own map format that is not compatible with the compilers. Because of this, I can happily work away in my .rmf map and export to .map when I want to compile without disrupting anything. It also has an option that allows me to export visible objects only, which is handy for debugging the map.
Maybe I can support it in my batch file, though the problem is that the working map file name changes based on map and version (e.g. map1_01, map1_02...) and detecting that in the batch file is fiddly perhaps, though I've never looked into it.
Adding the feature to the editor would require an export option adding to the file menu and potentially an export location adding to the preferences (always export to the same place so that exporting is a single click away).
As you said though, it might be an obscure feature, and I'm not really sure how everyone else tends to build. Since building isn't handled from TrenchBroom, and probably shouldn't be anyway, it seems like a simple feature that would be handly for streamlining the build process, that's all.
Anyway, if you think some kind of export feature would be ok but don't want to spend time implementing it, I could try perhaps? Currently I'm just getting the project set up. It might be worth getting a code::blocks project set up for windows for those who don't have VS and want to fiddle with the code. I had to install 2012 to test a friend's game, but the install process is insane and it eats up 13gb of disk space. I'm going to look into that if there isn't one already.
Also
#337 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/07 16:18:13
I've been calling this editor Trenchboom since I first saw it...
Thing Is
#338 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 16:18:34
"Export" implies a different map file format, which this is not. Maybe a "Save copy..." menu item could be added to the file menu though.
Regarding Code::Blocks, yeah, that would be cool. Not sure how easy it will be to set up the dependencies (wxWidgets mostly), though.
I Expect That Would Definitely Help :-)
#339 posted by mwh [86.143.157.197] on 2013/03/07 16:19:00
Seems quantal only has packages of wxwidgets 2.8, I presume 2.9 is a hard requirement? Some dude has a PPA with 2.9 in:
https://launchpad.net/~sven-eckelm...
Does that look new enough?
Than
#340 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/07 16:19:55
That's why I suggested a kind of on/off system, searching by entity fields - it wouldn't invalidate the .map format.
Haven't thought through the ramifcations properly though, so no idea how difficult it would be to code.
CodeBlocks Rules
#341 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 16:20:33
seems that code::blocks can import the sln file without any problems. I have to get wxwidgets properly installed before I can compile, but this is a good start. Once I get it compiling I'll post a little set up guide for anyone else that wants to look at the code and fiddle with it.
Mwh
#342 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 16:20:56
Yes, 2.9 is a hard requirement because I use components which are not present in 2.8. I wanted to try these:
http://www.codelite.org/LiteEditor...
I have no idea how up to date they are, though. I'll try the ones you found as well.
Than
#343 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/07 16:21:39
Look at Windows/Build.txt for exact instructions on which files to get for wxWidgets and where to put them.
Well, It Built (following Linux/Build.txt)
#344 posted by mwh [86.143.157.197] on 2013/03/07 17:15:36
After I clicked build twice? I got some error about SIZEOF_LONG the first time... now I disappear for a month :)
Hmm
#345 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.107.132] on 2013/03/07 17:25:57
It should build without warnings, much less errors.
Local Rotation?
#346 posted by Skiffy [210.195.127.132] on 2013/03/07 17:30:26
I would be fine with it being once a session. Or maybe add another file that sits external from the map format for this type of addition? That way you don't need to break the map format but can store info in an accompanying file. It would be lovely stuff.
Either way still cant say enough how much I love this editor. Rocks my socks off!
Skiffy
#347 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.107.132] on 2013/03/07 17:38:06
I have added a feature request for session-wise local coordinate systems, but I won't make them persistent. That would add too many new problems.
32/64 Bit?
#348 posted by mwh [86.143.157.197] on 2013/03/07 18:02:49
This code in Include/freetype/config/ftconfig.h...
#if defined SIZEOF_LONG
#undef SIZEOF_LONG
#endif
#define SIZEOF_LONG 4
looks a bit suspicious on my 64 bit system :)
ARGH!
#349 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 18:09:41
fucking wxwidgets!
This again! I can't figure out how to get wxWidgets to work with code blocks. It's such a horrible fucking nightmare to get it working correctly.
I Have To Go To Bed But...
#350 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/07 18:36:08
still no luck. I got rid of the wxwidgets simply by copying setup.h from the wxwidgets lib/gcc/msw/wx folder to the include/wx folder, but now I am getting an error saying va_list has not been declared (String.h 97)
No idea what I'm doing wrong, but this is the kind of thing that always puts me off doing c++ programming. Environment setup is fucking shit and makes me very annoyed :/
Than
#351 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.107.132] on 2013/03/07 18:43:08
Let us schedule a Skype meeting so that we can sort this out.
How To Run On Tablet?
#352 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/07 18:55:16
More random, non-rtf, feature ideas:
- display the size of the selected texture in the tex window
- always show the current grid size somewhere (as a number)
- specific filter option for skills + deathmatch (may be something for the fgd to allow similar filters with different games)
- possibly status bar?
- minigame to pass the compiling time (tetris)
Pre-placed Brush @ 0,0,0 On New Map?
#353 posted by quakis [86.22.126.142] on 2013/03/07 20:10:20
Another idea I'm throwing out there. What if upon starting a new map, there is always a single 4x4x4 brush at 0,0,0? This might prevent some disorientation when placing your first brush since there's already one there for reference.
Excuse me if this had already been suggested, kinda skimmed through the recent posts.
#354 posted by Spirit [80.171.143.129] on 2013/03/07 20:30:00
Maybe even provide a whole little textured room with a light source (like Quark ;) ;) ). Then one has a way to test the compiling pipeline easily.
Negke
#355 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.225.59] on 2013/03/07 20:30:01
- A tablet version is a very interesting idea that I have thought about a lot, but I decided it's not within my means for the time being.
- Texture size, grid size, specific filter options for skills + DM; noted.
- Status bar is a no, but I will add something similar (but better).
- Minigame, cool idea actually. ;-)
Quakis, excellent idea!
Quakis
#356 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.225.59] on 2013/03/07 20:31:25
I like that idea so much that it's going to be in 1.0.5.
#357 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/07 20:43:42
Tablet version - every time I pick up my iPad I think, "Man, it'd be neat if TrenchBroom worked on this thing". :P
Tablets
#358 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.225.59] on 2013/03/07 20:47:57
I can imagine two use cases for a tablet.
First, of course, as a standalone editing tool. It would surely be cool to be able to directly touch and manipulate the objects in the map. There is only one problem with it: Your fat fingers. Yes, yours. Because they obstruct your view of what you're actually doing. One idea to overcome this would be to automatically move / rotate the camera when you touch something so that it becomes visible again, yet reacts to your gestures.
Second, it would be cool as an additional input device for TrenchBroom on a desktop PC, because I guess somethings are still easier to do with a pointing device that's not your fat finger, and somethings are much more intuitive to do with the fingers (rotation!).
#359 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/07 21:37:41
Oh yeah, there are a ton of interface challenges with it ... I just think it would be neat. :P
Usability. My Story About Quest Level Editor.
#360 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/07 22:24:51
I've not tried TrenchBroom yet, so I don't know. But, I would like to say:
I used the Quest level editor for many years, instead of QERadiant and GTKRadiant. Why? Because I was able to make a map 10x faster, using Quest's controls.
I take an interest in TrenchBroom because of the single 3D view, because that is how I did it in Quest.
In Quest, I always fullscreen one of the views, and I would use the keys to navigate, and a key to switch from 3d to grid view. The key for switching to grid view was very powerful for me, because I often used the grid to line things up better and visually measure stuff better.
The view in Quest was restricted to 90-degree angles only. I loved this. You could also turn off restrictive view and then rotate the camera to any angle you wish. But, I was always in restrictive view mode, 90-degree camera angles only.
To move around, I used "A" and "Z" which is Zoom In and Zoom Out in grid view, or Forward and Backward in 3d view. The arrow keys "UP" and "DOWN" were for Panning up and down in grid view, and flying up or down in 3d view. Same goes for the "LEFT" and "RIGHT" arrow keys.
The keys to turn the camera 90-degrees to any direction, my favourite keys and these were critical to my 10x speed of mapping, were the key combinations of "ALT+LEFT_ARROW" to rotate camera 90-degrees to left. Same goes for any "ALT+{ARROW_KEY}" combination to rotate the camera 90-degrees towards that direction arrow key you pressed. Same goes in grid view, the view would rotate as well.
I'd like to keep this in mind, and see what you can do about having your editor provide the same type of usability controls as what I've described.
Thanks!
Deqer
#361 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.225.59] on 2013/03/07 22:43:13
I'm sorry if this will sound harsh, but the last thing I want to do with TrenchBroom is make it work like another editor that clearly follows a different UI approach.
I suggest that you try TrenchBroom and forget about how Quest works. Use it with an open mind. If it doesn't work for you, then there are plenty other editors out there.
Your Quick Response.
#362 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/07 22:51:13
So, you didn't think about what I said.
You didn't even give it a thought--nevermind the particular keys being used--but no thought of having an option to restrict the view to 90-degree angles-only and using key combinations to rotate the camera 90-degrees to any direction, and keys to move and pan around at high speeds.
Keys, keys, keys.
Instead, you closed your mind, and immediately responded with a generic and vague "im not changing my editor." liner. Okay.
#363 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/07 23:00:18
The big difference with quark vs (afaik) all other editors is that there is a tree view of the entire map where you see individual entities and brushes as nodes in the tree, grouped by brush entities or user made group folders.
qED had this too. it was otherwise a pretty lousy editor but that part was nice; you could move brushes between entities or groups by dragging the nodes around, and you could name the groups too (or the brushes, if you were an OCD masochist with time to burn)
lack of proper group support puts me off diving into TB just yet but pleased to see plans are in place for that. that said i'm eager to try out some of the terrain construction demonstrated above :)
Deqer
#364 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/07 23:00:29
The controls will be fully customisible in newer versions. But if you want an editor exactly like Quest then why not use Quest? Simple really.
Also, you haven't used the editor by your own admission so why do you think you could improve something you haven't yet tried?
SleepwalkR, wouldn't a 4x4x4 square be a little small? How about a room that is 256x256x128?
#365 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/07 23:06:16
SleepwalkR, wouldn't a 4x4x4 square be a little small? How about a room that is 256x256x128?
or just a customisable start template?
The Start Brush
#366 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.225.59] on 2013/03/07 23:12:31
is 64x64x16. That's enough to give the user orientation and something to interact with.
rj, I'm not sure what good a customizable template would do. Also, the tree view is on the todo list.
Deqer
#367 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.225.59] on 2013/03/07 23:16:43
If you read this thread then you would know that I give a lot of ideas a lot of thought if they make sense in the context of this editor. If they don't, then I dismiss them or modify them until they do.
Your suggestions don't work well with the workflow of TrenchBroom, which is why I dismissed them. I have a very specific vision for TrenchBroom. If that works for you, then fine, and if it doesn't, then also fine because there are many other editors out there for you to choose from.
#368 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/07 23:29:16
Also, the tree view is on the todo list.
i did notice :) was just briefly reminiscing
and yeah it was a bit of a retarded suggestion on hindsight. also the last one i make until i try the damn thing...
No "Intel HD Graphics" 3000 Videocard Support?
#369 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/08 00:23:49
I know it's not a typical gaming video card, but I'm able to playing modern games on it, including TF2--which uses quake engine as well.
So, I must wonder, why TrenchBroom crashes when I press "V" for vertex editing mode, and shows an error like this: http://pastebin.com/UCNGUYMB - mainly the last 10 lines of that paste; so, lines 94 to 103.
"ERROR: 22:1: '' : extension 'GL_EXT_gpu_shader4' is not supported"
What is that? Sounds like it is video card related. But, just seems odd to me that my video card cannot display, but my video card can play games just fine.
The crash always happens when I press "V" on a selected brush.
Deqer
#370 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.225.59] on 2013/03/08 00:29:53
Go to the preferences and set OpenGL instancing to "Force off".
Video Of Me Using TrenchBroom
#371 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/08 06:20:34
This video shows me using TrenchBroom for the first time, and my initial reactions to anything I see or encounter. My first impressions.
I also do a bit of editing with brushes, and textures in this video.
Perhaps someone might find this interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1f...
Title: "First time, Part 1: Install, Setup, and Experiment | TrenchBroom"
Texture Mapping Tools
#372 posted by Skiffy [219.92.52.163] on 2013/03/08 06:28:06
Hello again, just wandered in here again after a late night of mad brush work inside Trenchbroom. I noticed one thing when working with a large collection of brushes forming a single surface. It can become tricky to line up textures especially when dealing with so many brushes.
So what I was wondering is if there are any plans to add some basic texture projection options? Like selecting a bunch of faces over a series of brushes and then unifying their mapping with planer projection based on an average normal?
Would it also be possible to add the ability to adjust mapping of faces with a gizmo when you have a surface selected instead of using the offset and rotation settings? That would keep you in the viewport without having to get lost in menus. It could be just like the rotate or vertex edit modes but for texture adjusting. Select a surface and then start rotating and scaling the texture right there instead of juggling numbers. This and the basic projection options would be kick ass for helping manage texture alignments for more complex constructions like terrain.
Cheers and again thanks for this epic editing software. I totally lost track of time last night...
Skiffy
#373 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.60.171] on 2013/03/08 07:05:48
I'm not sure what you mean by your first suggestion. You cannot change the way textures are projected in Quake.
Texture manip. with the mouse is on the todo list.
Deqer
#374 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.60.171] on 2013/03/08 07:08:12
Thanks for the video, I will watch it later.
Tools To Help With Texture Mapping
#375 posted by Skiffy [219.92.52.163] on 2013/03/08 07:28:40
Regarding texture project I am talking about tools in your editor to help manipulate the already build in data that controls the Uv coordinates that is all. No new engine additions for quake itself just handy tools to mass adjust and sync texture orientations and scale with each other. Does that make more sense?
Hmm
#376 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.60.171] on 2013/03/08 08:12:30
But you can select multiple faces and adjust the texture parameters in the face inspector already. I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean exactly.
Deqer
#377 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.60.171] on 2013/03/08 09:09:29
Some notes:
- Font rendering is broken on your system. This will be fixed in a future version. This has happened to other people as well.
- Shift+Left Drag on Edge and Face handles doesn't work so well. It does not snap the individual vertices of the edge or face to the grid. In these cases, you should move the individual vertices.
- To make a vertex align with another vertex (maybe of another brush), select both brushes, double click the vertex to be aligned and drag it onto the other vertex.
- Generally it is preferable to have vertices on the grid (maybe on a larger grid size than 1). Makes lots of things easier.
- Vertices need laser beams, too. That should make it easer to line them up.
Skiffy
#378 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/08 10:02:38
Regarding across multiple faces (with the same texture) what I normally do is select the first texture face and make my adjustments and then alt+click the other faces so the settings are carried over.
#379 posted by quakis [86.22.126.142] on 2013/03/08 10:10:17
Did I really say 4x4x4? I meant 64x64x64! :p Nice to see that feature will be added though!
Deqer
#380 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/08 10:21:54
I really struggled to watch the video once you started editing stuff in 1x1 grid mode... I don't even like going down to 8x8 unless I really need to, it's just way too much hassle to get things done correctly/accurately.
#381 posted by Spirit [80.171.96.95] on 2013/03/08 10:48:11
font-family: Helvetica; will fallback to the default font if the user does not have Helvetica (such as your beloved Linux users). Change it to font-family: Helvetica, Arial, DejaVu sans, sans-serif; or something like that. Right now I get an ugly serif font.
Talking About The Website Of Course
#382 posted by Spirit [80.171.96.95] on 2013/03/08 10:48:31
Spirit
#383 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.60.171] on 2013/03/08 11:04:26
Will do, thanks!
I Just Tried To Ctrl+D
#384 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/08 12:01:38
in windows to duplicate a folder... I'm going outside for some fresh air.
Hello Old Friends
#385 posted by Borsato [86.177.24.188] on 2013/03/08 12:22:59
Hey guys, been a while :-)
(I'm this guy: http://www.rudolfkremers.com/q/qua...
Kristian! Ach mein GOTT! This editor loooks amazing.I may have to give that a spin when I find some time. (Admittedly this will take a while)
Get Crackin Rudolf ;-)
#386 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.60.171] on 2013/03/08 12:35:18
Thanks!
I Remember...
#387 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/08 13:23:29
"Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?"... Good map back in the day. :)
Gracias
#388 posted by Borsato [109.153.226.96] on 2013/03/08 23:58:59
I have a sequel 99% finished
But it has been lying dormant on my harddisk for about ten years or more..
Another Video.
#389 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 00:12:01
Thanks for your response.
Here is another video, Part 2 of my first time, using the clipping/cutting/slicing tool.
This video is not as long. Only half long as previous one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgP...
Title: "TrenchBroom: First time, Part 2: Brush Cut/Clip/Slice, Experimenting."
I have a part 3 video that is uploading right now, showing how I compile the map. In case anyone finds that interesting.
Compiling The Map
#390 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 00:36:30
Part 3 video, "Compiling the Map"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEa...
Title: "TrenchBroom: First time, Part 3: Compiling the Map"
I have another video uploading now, showing me creating a one-room map from scratch with items, lighting, spawnpoints, and an exit.
#391 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/09 01:48:33
fyi: You are supposed to be able to type directly into the map textbox like you did originally, but it's bugged and requires you to use that [...] button. Sorry for the confusion.
Making A Map
#392 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 04:39:58
New video: "Making a Map"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRV...
with items, lighting, spawnpoints, and an exit.
A Great Idea But...
#393 posted by hakkarin [81.15.54.176] on 2013/03/09 05:01:08
Being limited to just 3D mode makes it a chore to edit the maps. 2D grid views exist in other editors for a reason. I think it is silly to talk about the "NO 2D grid view" as if it is a great feature. I personally love the fact that you are making a new editor for Quake, but I personally think this design decision was a mistake. There are just so many things that that much easier to do in a 2D grid view and can be done much faster as well. I really suggest putting that kind of a feature into the game.
Grid View Feature.
#394 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 05:12:48
I agree, hakkarin. A grid view switch would be nice.
I used the "F" hotkey a lot, in Quest editor. Because the "F" key would switch to flat grid view, and/or switch back.
The grid view made many things a lot easier and quicker to do.
Easy for author of TrenchBroom to do? Perhaps. The grid view would just be the same as the 3d view, but be FLAT. Basically just rotate/snap camera to a 90-degree angle for a "forward view" and then display flat frame/layer of the 3d view as a 2d view--and you still have same functionality as before.
#395 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/09 05:15:55
There is something to be said for an orthogonal projection, maybe...
Necros
#396 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.107.182] on 2013/03/09 07:39:55
What map textbox is bugged?
Textbox Bug
#397 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 08:22:11
He's referring to the video "Compiling a Map", where I used a 3rd-party tool for compiling and in that tool there is a way to select your *.map but it also provides a textfield. Most people would click the "..." button, but I tried to type the path directly into the textfield, but the path didn't save--didn't select the map file.
I Haven't Tried (yet?)
#398 posted by megaman [79.219.122.52] on 2013/03/09 12:24:10
but goddammit, fucking awesome work!
Spiral Staircase
#399 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 12:40:37
TrenchBroom: Create a Spiral Staircase - Experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p29...
TrenchBroom: Create/Import Spiral Staircase into TrenchBroom from another Editor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpG...
#400 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/09 13:24:46
deqer
I love that you're making videos for the editor but, man ... 25 minutes for a spiral staircase? A little editing/planning would go a long way.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#401 posted by Spirit [80.171.163.41] on 2013/03/09 13:30:07
http://www.quaketerminus.com/hoste...
Spirit
#402 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/09 13:31:20
That's the tutorial I used to make curves in my maps. :D
I don't know if the curved pipe tutorial works in TB though, haven't tried it yet. :P
#403 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/09 13:51:06
The concepts will work but you can't create cylinders yet so you can't follow it directly. You can memorize the ratios and proportions and use the clipping tool to get the same results though.
My Videos Aren't Official Tutorials.
#404 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 19:08:36
Willem, my videos aren't official tutorial videos. I just "wing it" as I go.
Most of my videos are titled to indicate that as well, with titles like "First time." and "Experiment."
As you can see in my second staircase video, I used my old editor to create a perfect spiral staircase in just a few minutes, by using circle brushes.
#405 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/09 19:19:32
I know they aren't official. Just passing along some critique for you. I assume you'd like people to watch these since you're taking the time to upload them ... and 25 minutes is a large chunk of time for a spiral staircase video. That's all!
Curved Pipe Tutorial
#406 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 19:19:34
Spirit: "http://www.quaketerminus.com...
Nah.
That tutorial looks stupid. Thanks though.
Willem, I Agree.
#407 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 19:20:48
I agree, Willem. I'm making a better video now; and it will only be 3 minutes long this time. :)
#408 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/09 19:31:28
Nice!
Willem, I Updated The Description Of That Long Staircase Video
#409 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 19:32:16
Willem, I updated the description of that long staircase video to make it clear that it's not a solution.
New description is: "NOTE: I don't actually succeed in creating the spiral staircase in this video. However, I show a technique for creating a perfect circle shape. So, then you use the circle shape as a reference and trace over it with your new brushes for stairs and walls. "
Wait
#410 posted by Kinn [109.152.140.20] on 2013/03/09 20:21:14
25 minutes and we don't even get the money shot?
Using Quest To Create Spiral Stairs In 5 Minutes. Import Into TB.
#411 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/09 21:44:16
Alright Willem, he's a 5min version.
Note, that I don't actually use TrenchBroom to create the spiral stairs. I just show how I would do it in another editor, and then import it into TrenchBroom.
"TrenchBroom: Create/Import Spiral Stairs in 5 minutes."
http://youtu.be/LYkqpwxRQjY
Incoming Update To TrenchBroom, Key Bindings.
#412 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/10 01:00:58
"Key bindings" feature was just pushed to their repository, an hour ago.
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBr...
You can see the list of all the features that will be configurable through the new Preferences->Keybinds window/frame they've recently added as well.
You can see they uploaded new icon graphics for it as well. Icon/picture of a keyboard.
---
And of course, having "key bindings" feature also allows us to define keys for functions that don't have keys bound by default. For example, "Snap all vertices" has no key bound by default in the current version of TrenchBroom, but with new version of TB I could now set a key to this, such as CTRL+N, and use it!
Make Selection Planar Command
#413 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/10 03:29:27
Would a command that makes a selection (collection of 2 or more vertices, 1 or more edges or 1 or more faces) planar on X, Y, Z be useful to anyone besides me?
Note that this brings up the problem of axis selection again...
Progress...
#414 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 05:36:40
Although I haven't bothered to try recompiling TrenchBroom under windows, I went back to the Linux version, and followed the steps listed in build.txt.
I discovered that wx/setup.h was not found because of an incorrect path in the build options->compiler settings->other options panel where the wxWidgets directories are set.
-I$(#WXWIN)/build-debug/lib/wx/inc...
does not exist after I make wxWidgets, but I instead had gtk 3, so I changed it to
-I$(#WXWIN)/build-debug/lib/wx/inc...
This started to compile fine, but when it tried to link wxWidgets I got the following error:
"Linking executable: bin/Debug/TrenchBroom
g++: error: /home/andy/Programming/wxWidgets-2... No such file or directory
g++: error: /home/andy/Programming/wxWidgets-2... No such file or directory
g++: error: /home/andy/Programming/wxWidgets-2... No such file or directory
Process terminated with status 1 (6 minutes, 25 seconds)"
These libraries are specified in the linker settings tab under other linker options. Changing instances of gtk2 to gtk3 fixes this, but then I get this error:
"ld||cannot find -lgtk-x11-2.0|
ld||cannot find -lgdk-x11-2.0|
||=== Build finished: 2 errors, 0 warnings ===|"
Any idea how to fix this mess anyone? Should I revert all the gtk3 instances to gtk2 and recompile wxWidgets to use gtk2? If so, does anyone know what options I need to use? I will have a look now, but I don't think I'm not most knowledgeable person about this kind of thing, so would appreciate help.
Hmm...
#415 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 05:48:27
seems to be the --with-gtk=2 compiler option on configure. Seems I also needed to install libgtk2.0-dev.
I'll try rebuilding wxWidgets with gtk 2 and see what happens.
Hexen II Support Thirded
#416 posted by Shanjaq [24.17.201.41] on 2013/03/10 06:31:07
What kind of information do you need to support another Quake-engine game, such as Hexen II? Ozkan Sezer and myself might be of some help. I'm on gmail.
FINALLY
#417 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 06:54:14
managed to compile and successfully run TrenchBroom under Mint Linux. Turns out you NEED to have libgtk2.0-dev installed for it to work, though wxWidgets compiles fine if you have another version. I had 3.0 already installed and assumed it would be fine, but it wasn't. I ended up compiling wxWidgets with the following settings:
release: configure --disable-shared --with-openlgl --with-gtk=2
debug: configure --enable-debug --disable-shared --with-opengl -with-gtk=2
and then everything just worked fine.
The editor runs fine, though there are a couple of problems I've noticed.
1. text does not render properly in the 3d view, texture view or entity view. When in the texture view, applying a texture causes the names to be refreshed and they render correctly, but soon revert to being mostly not rendered.
2. This is probably just a linux mint problem, but holding alt and dragging moves the window. There might be a way to disable this in mint.
Than
#418 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.109.161] on 2013/03/10 07:32:38
Thanks for the info, I'll add the --with-gtk=2 option to the configure options. GTK versions are not compatible with each other, sadly. I'll put more emphasis on the fact that you need 2 and cannot use 3.
1. The text problem also happens on some Windows systems. I have no idea what the cause is, and I'm going to replace the current font rendering with texture fonts anyway. Maybe I'll find a way to fix the current font systems in the meantime.
2. You have to disable this behavior for your Windows manager. I don't know how to do it in Mint though.
More
#419 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 08:07:49
I couldn't compile the release build because there were a bunch of warnings about Source/Model/BrushGeometry.cpp using uninitialized variables. Explicitly initializing them to 0 fixes this problem. This never happened in the debug build, so perhaps it could simply be gotten around by supressing the warning/error that arises from the uninitialized variables? However, they do appear to be used uninitialized (buffer >> vertexCount etc.) so maybe it's safer to just initialize?
I had a look for how to disable the alt+drag = move window behaviour in Mint. This was the best I could find:
http://ubuntuguide.net/disable-alt...
It hasn't worked for me in Mint yet, but perhaps I just need to restart.
Also, I'm having a problem selecting my Quake directory. I think it's probably a wxWidgets or Mint/Mate problem, because I had a similar issue when trying to set up wxWidgets in Code::Blocks (also a wxWidgets app), but for some reason it won't select any folder deeper than user/home/. My Quake dir is /andy/home/Games/Quake, but it just gives me /andy/home/ when I select the Quake folder. No idea why it's happening, but I had the same problem in code::blocks. I want to know the preference storage location so I can manually edit it to work around the problem for now.
Hexen 2 Support
#420 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/10 08:24:24
Hey Shanjaq,
Since Hexen2 uses the Quake engine, I believe it's already possible to make Hexen2 maps in TrenchBroom.
I believe it just comes down to a .def (or .fgd) file for the entities; And TrenchBroom allows you to define a .def file, or .fgd file.
hexen2.def download: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0...
I copied the Hexen2 .def file to TrenchBroom/Defs/ folder, and I selected it in TrenchBroom, but TrenchBroom could not parse it correctly.
I believe necros made a converter to convert the .def file to a .fgd file. But the download links there are broken. You can see the .def converter here: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Than
#421 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.109.161] on 2013/03/10 08:35:31
The warnings are fixed now. I'll look into the directory issues.
Thanks
#422 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 08:56:55
For anyone who is trying to use TrenchBroom in Linux Mint, I also found out how to disable alt+drag moves window (using Mate... not sure about Cinnamon):
At the terminal, run mateconf-editor
In the configuration Editor window that appears, enter apps->marco-general and change the setting for mouse-button-modifier to "<Super>" to use the super key (probably the windows key) or "none" to disable it altogether. The default is <Alt>, but this is fucking stupid, since lots of applications use alt.
Than
#423 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.109.161] on 2013/03/10 09:14:34
Regarding the garbled text, could you please scroll the console all the way up and paste the first ten lines where it says whether OpenGL instancing is enabled or not?
It's Disabled...
#424 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 13:22:32
enderer info: Mesa DRI Intel(R) 965GM x86/MMX/SSE2 version 2.1 Mesa 9.0.2 from Intel Open Source Technology Center
Depth buffer bits: 0 < WTF!?
Multisampling disabled
OpenGL instancing disabled
I set it to be forced off because otherwise vertex mode crashes the editor.
Also, I didn't notice until I tried loading some more complex maps, but the 3d view is extremely buggy. I'm getting missing surfaces all over the place, and I think some option I tweaked made all the normal flipped or something weird like that. The depth buffer or render order also seems to be borked. It's a mess on my laptop at least. I want to try it on my Ubuntu machine that has a sensible nvidia card and see if I experience problems there. I notice you have a screenshot on the TrenchBroom site taken in Linux that looks perfectly fine, so I'm guessing it might be an issue with my lame graphics chip.
Oh, a couple of other things:
1. If I click on the window title before trying to use a menu for the first time, the menu appears briefly, then disappears and none of the menus are useable. Could it be a wx or GTK problem?
2. When I quit TrenchBroom, sometimes I get an assert fail "../src/common/glcmn.cpp(60): assert "IsShownOnScreen()" failed in SetCurrent(): can't make hidden GL canvas current"
ASSERT INFO:
../src/common/glcmn.cpp(60): assert "IsShownOnScreen()" failed in SetCurrent(): can't make hidden GL canvas current
BACKTRACE:
[1] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOID
[2] g_closure_invoke
[3] g_signal_emit_valist
[4] g_signal_emit
[5] gtk_widget_map
[6] gtk_container_forall
[7] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOIDv
[8] g_signal_emit_valist
[9] g_signal_emit
[10] gtk_widget_map
[11] gtk_container_forall
[12] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOIDv
[13] g_signal_emit_valist
[14] g_signal_emit
[15] gtk_widget_map
[16] gtk_widget_set_child_visible
[17] g_closure_invoke
[18] g_signal_emit_valist
[19] g_signal_emit
[20] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__OBJECTv
[21] g_signal_emit_valist
[22] g_signal_emit
[23] gtk_container_remove
[24] g_main_context_dispatch
[25] g_main_loop_run
[26] gtk_main
No idea what's going on there.
This is the graphics chip I seem to have:
VGA compatible controller : Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (primary) (rev 0c) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
Display controller : Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (secondary) (rev 0c)
I Wrote A Little Guide For Running On Linux
#425 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 13:32:16
http://andyp123.blogspot.jp/2013/0...
There are possibly some things I missed, and it's basically just an expanded version of Linux/Build.txt, but maybe it's of use to someone. If there are any problems with it, please let me know so that I can fix it.
Than
#426 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.109.161] on 2013/03/10 13:36:36
You must use the master branch for the Linux version, it has a lot of fixes. The 1.0.5 branch is pretty much broken on Linux.
Ugh
#427 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 13:39:15
ok, so there is no depth buffer it seems. The wireframe of all brushes is always visible - even when there are other brushes obscuring it, unlike in the windows version, and if I do a simple test with three brushes, it's obvious there is no depth culling. This is probably down to my shitty video card, the drivers or some combination of the two, and I don't expect you to fix it since TrenchBroom is just a personal project and fixing shit like that for one guy running on a Linux notebook from 2007/2008 is not of the upmost importance. Still, if you have any idea what the cause might be, it would be good to know.
SleepwalkR
#428 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 13:39:57
ok, I'll try that and see if it works.
No Depth Buffer
#429 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.109.161] on 2013/03/10 13:56:05
That's odd, but it could very well be a bug in how I am detecting the available pixel formats on Linux. I'll look into this, so keep that laptop around ;-)
Using Master
#430 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 14:05:05
I am pulling direct from the master now and there are no differences with regard to bugginess on my machine.
I'm kind of done with this for today, but tomorrow or perhaps Tuesday I'll try and get it running on my Ubuntu machine and also use my experience from today to get it building with Code:: Blocks on Windows (I hope).
Ideally I'd love to have it running flawlessly on Linux, but I'll be happy to get the Windows version building so I can try adding new features.
Than
#431 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.109.161] on 2013/03/10 14:07:32
The menu issues are still there on the master branch?
Yeah :(
#432 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/10 15:53:59
At least on Linux Mint Mate. Not sure if it's just an issue related to my specific setup.
Load TrenchBroom
Click on any menu (the file menu for instance)
The menu should appear then quickly disappear. The entire GUI is completely unresponsive after that and I have to kill the process to get rid of it :/
Fixed Hexen2.def
#433 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/10 18:46:34
I fixed the errors with the hexen2.def file I had.
Fixed hexen2.def
Download: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0...
Errors/fixes were:
1) Removed first 5 lines(a custom comment).
2) Search & Replace all " / " with "/"
3) Search & Replace all lines that tail: ") ?", and replace that tail with ")"
These fixes were based off the error messages I received in the console log of TrenchBroom. Thanks to the log messages, I was able to fix these manually myself.
It loads fine, and I get hexen2 entities now.
Models:
However, it's not loading the models. I tried renaming my hexen2 /data1/ folder to /id1/, because it has same pak files, and the pak files have same file structure. But, I couldn't get this to work.
Textures:
I could not get it working. TrenchBroom won't load the hexen2tx.wad file I downloaded from:
http://www.realm667.com/index.php/...
---
Perhaps these issues are side-effects from the fact that the hexen2 is a custom quake1 engine.
Alright, I'm Done With TrenchBroom For Now.
#434 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/10 22:03:09
Alright, I'm done with TrenchBroom for now.
I can't use it effectively unless I have grid information. Bit I have no grid information--all the opengl text is garbled--and I have no grid view or grid anything to look at for measurements.
I understand the editor is to be seamless flow for a mapper, but I prefer to be accurate and I always work with grid information and grid numbers, and a flat grid view.
Thanks,
Hexen 2 Model Loading Error
#435 posted by [219.92.52.161] on 2013/03/11 02:21:29
Hello deqer,
I suspect that it's not loading the models since they have a customized MDL format for Hexen 2. For each games meshes to show up Trenchbroom would need to have a custom loader for the various MDL, MD2, MD3 and so on.
Cheers
This Editor Looks Awesome!
#436 posted by Qmaster [50.40.254.125] on 2013/03/11 02:34:41
Really nice! It's like Blender but with brushes...hmmm...hopefully there will be ample hotkey customization.
This looks and feels incredible! Fluid views, oldstyle graphics(not gl blurred! :) ), Brush splitting!! Amazing. Simply amazing.
However, I have noticed one minor issue. Texture application takes a while...about 2-3 to do any change to the texture. I have Nvidia driver 306.97, though I haven't noticed any issues with it, though perhaps it has something to do with having multiple monitors. It does slow down my texturing process a lot.
Anyways its great so far! Keep it up!
Uh Oh...
#437 posted by Qmaster [50.40.254.125] on 2013/03/11 02:45:45
Grid snap does't snap to the global grid! It's local. Instead of moving a face to the next gridline it just moves it the current grid distance. For example, if a face whose global X-value is 32 is moved 2 units to 30, then when switching back to any other grid size like, say, 16 then the X-value would go from 30 to 14, not 30 to 16 which is how other editors work. Is there a setting for this?
Slow Texture Application
#438 posted by Qmaster [50.40.254.125] on 2013/03/11 02:48:40
I disabled and then reenabled one of my monitors and it fixed the slow texturing problem. Wierd. Just FYI.
Qmaster
#439 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/11 03:16:28
grid snapping to offsets is intentional. Force a vertex to snap to grid by holding shift while you move a vertex.
Not forcing the snap lets you do more such as work at large grid sizes without loosing small details.
Great Editor
#440 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/11 08:26:57
It is a spectacular editor though. The best feature is the texture rendering in 3d view, and texture management in general. I also like the grid lines on the brushes, and the extending helper grid lines when selecting a brush.
I will use 3d view a lot. But, I also use flat grid view just as much. Please provide grid view or something equivalent.
World Center And Limits?
#441 posted by Skiffy [210.195.225.134] on 2013/03/11 13:13:08
Hello SleepwalkR,
Do you think its possible to add a world center and limits info to the 3d viewport? It would be most helpful in figuring out the center and maximum boundaries of the level. Some form of coordinate system that has a 3d grid which fades out after a set distance which can be turned on and off? That way folks that like a grid or none at all will live happy ever after. For me its good to get my bearings.
Otherwise loving this.
How Do I...
#442 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/11 13:29:45
add the name of the level and things in TrenchBroom?
#443 posted by Spirit [80.187.110.200] on 2013/03/11 13:31:42
it took me until now recognise the origin of your nick, I should read more!
add a "name" field to the worldspawn.
Skiffy
#444 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 13:39:37
Showing where the center is and where the world ends has been requested by others. I'm still thinking about how to do it without cluttering the view port. Maybe it can be combined with a way to give people more orientation and a better idea of the relative position of objects.
Working On Ubuntu 12.10 Fine
#445 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/11 13:40:10
Compiled on my main pc running Ubuntu 12.10. Had some minor troubles during compilation, but fixed and it runs just fine as far as I can tell (not tested extensively yet, however).
Everything is working fine, but wxWidgets setup.h seems to redefine SIZEOF_LONG as 8, where it has already been defined in freetype. Commented out the highlighted line and it compiled without issues.
The z-buffer is working fine:
Renderer info: GeForce GTX 560 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 version 4.2.0 NVIDIA 304.51 from NVIDIA Corporation
Depth buffer bits: 24
Multisampling disabled
OpenGL instancing enabled
Sleepy
#446 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/11 13:42:29
It might be good to have some goto brush and/or world position tools in there to help find and eliminate problems. I guess that can easily be tied into the map explorer when you are doing that?
Than
#447 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 13:49:11
Cool. Still annoying that it doesn't work correctly on Mint though. Which edition / desktop are you using on your Mint machine?
I'm aware of the SIZEOF_LONG issue, I have to do some include trickery to get around it. It's on my todo list.
Goto brush is on the todo list also ;-). Necros keeps asking for it.
Suggestion
#448 posted by hakkarin [81.15.54.176] on 2013/03/11 13:53:18
This editor really needs a cut tool. Lets say I want to remove a small area in a wall that is shaped like a box. It would be nice if you could put a brush into that area and then have the area occupied by the brush removed.
CSG Subtract
#449 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 13:57:06
I plan to add some CSG operations (most importantly CSG merge), but CSG subtract (or "cut" as you call it) is not among those. The reason is that it is very hard to make the subtract operation create "optimal" brushwork. Here, optimal means brushwork that creates a minimal amount of plane cuts when run through QBSP.
AFAIK, the general consensus is to stay away from CSG subtract operations because of this. And that's why I'm not going to add it to TrenchBroom.
Lol
#450 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/11 14:11:53
What's with that video - 'How to make a spiral staircase with Trenchbroom'. Basically - 'Use Quest'? Seems a little counter-intuitive.
So Not Wanting To Re-read 450 Posts - SleepwalkR
#451 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/11 14:17:51
Is this a known issue?
Loading file C:\Quake\Id1\maps\endeavor.map
Loading unsupported map Valve 220 map format
Malformed map file: expected token of type integer number, or decimal number, but found string at line 1198, column 77
Loaded map file in 0.020000 seconds
Loading entity definition file C:\trenchbroom\Resources\Defs\Quak...
.... aaaand the map doesn't seem to show at all.
So are any Valve220 maps a no-no?
So Not Wanting To Re-read 450 Posts - SleepwalkR
#452 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/11 14:19:06
Is this a known issue?
Loading file C:\Quake\Id1\maps\endeavor.map
Loading unsupported map Valve 220 map format
Malformed map file: expected token of type integer number, or decimal number, but found string at line 1198, column 77
Loaded map file in 0.020000 seconds
Loading entity definition file C:\trenchbroom\Resources\Defs\Quak...
.... aaaand the map doesn't seem to show at all.
So are any Valve220 maps a no-no?
Possibly
#453 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 14:20:32
I haven't tested them extensively. And even if they do load, TrenchBroom can't handle the new texture projection stuff (yet). If you send me the file, I can take a look and fix any problems with the parser, but as I said - you'll have garbled textures all over the place.
Best if you make a bug report and post the map (or the offending portion incl. containing entities) file there: http://github.com/kduske/trenchbro...
That Said
#454 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 14:21:24
Proper support for 220 maps with freely configurable texture axes are on the todo list for 1.2 or 1.3.
Sweet!
#455 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/11 14:24:13
Well I'll post that .map file anyway (It's that Catatonic Fits of Despair source, but I got the same bug with a bunch of different maps)...
Quick Question
#456 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/11 14:26:09
I submitted an issue about setting the quake path (possibly you already added it as I mentioned it here already... I forgot about that), but in the meantime, is there some way to force set it? I could probably hard code it, but surely there is some config file somewhere I can open in a text editor and set the path? Where is it on Linux?
Yeah, Just Add A Few Examples
#457 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 14:26:22
And I'll fix the parser for 1.0.5.
Also, Another Question For Linux Users..
#458 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/11 14:28:54
Anyone got multisampling working? Do you have anti-aliased lines etc? My Trenchbroom render window looks a bit ass. I'm using an GeForce 560 with the closed source drivers.
Also, my depth buffer is only set at 24bits, which could be the cause of the lines looking a bit thin and aliased.
Than
#459 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 14:31:25
Yes, there is. Go to your home directory and look at the file .TrenchBroom - this is where the preferences are stored on Linux.
Try to set the Quake path to something that the file dialog is fine with so that it is actually stored in the prefs. The edit the file (I think it's an ini file) to reflect the correct path.
Aliasing
#460 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 14:32:58
The editor tries to autodetect multisampling, but I'm sure it doesn't work too well on Linux (I was using a virtual machine when I wrote that). If you like, you can look at the file LinuxCapabilities.cpp (or .h) and maybe you can figure out a way to detect and enable multisampling on Linux.
I'll add it to my list of problems with the linux version, in any case.
Oh Yeah - The Texture Thing
#461 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/11 14:35:11
I'm aware that the 220 textures are loaded incorrectly in other editors (if the maps load at all), but it would still be nice to be able to load just the brushes. :)
Ricky
#462 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 14:35:44
As I said, if you create a bug report and add some examples, I'll fix it.
Settings
#463 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/11 14:38:59
yep, that did the trick. Thanks.
#464 posted by necros [142.245.193.3] on 2013/03/11 14:42:33
add the name of the level and things in TrenchBroom?
add a 'message' key into worldspawn to make a title appear for your map.
Well
#465 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/11 14:44:58
I made this:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBr...
I mean I can't really give any more info than that at this time, because the map doesn't seem to load at all. But once we get past the first hurdle I can help give some structured info on different types of texture angle and how they appear in each editor, if that would help :)
Thanks
#466 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 14:48:23
I'll look into it!
Worldspawn Editing...
#467 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/11 15:06:43
I really have no idea how to add or find the worldspawn, in worldcraft you just change the level details in a menu but I can't find any menu for it in TB.
#468 posted by onetruepurple [91.240.47.30] on 2013/03/11 15:11:16
Select a non-entity brush and see its Entity properties.
OTP
#469 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/11 15:15:55
Thanks, although that is counter-intuitive. :P
#470 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/11 15:34:04
I plan to add some CSG operations (most importantly CSG merge), but CSG subtract (or "cut" as you call it) is not among those. The reason is that it is very hard to make the subtract operation create "optimal" brushwork. Here, optimal means brushwork that creates a minimal amount of plane cuts when run through QBSP.
AFAIK, the general consensus is to stay away from CSG subtract operations because of this. And that's why I'm not going to add it to TrenchBroom.
If it helps maybe you could experiment with what I did in ToeTag. I remember sorting the cutting planes by size and cutting with the biggest ones first. This did seem to result in the best/least set of cuts possible as it tended to do the large changes first and then the small ones only operated on the small brushes that were near the cutting brush.
Anyway, something to think about. Cutting holes in stuff is a staple feature that I would miss not having, long term. It's really just an extension of the clipping tool.
#471 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/11 15:34:33
Er, not the cutting planes but the cutting polygons, obviously. :) The planes would all be equal size.
I Made A Mess...
#472 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/11 15:38:10
of my first Worldcraft test level a few months ago by liberally using the carve tool. It was a nice looking test map (that may evolve further) but I think discourage carve tools is a good idea.
#473 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/11 15:45:05
I won't get into a huge argument but I disagree. You can make the same mess with the clipping tool. Keeping users away from powerful tools because they might make a mess is a silly argument, IMO.
I'll walk away now. :)
Willem
#474 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 15:50:36
Well, I thought that noone really used CSG subtract, but if I'm wrong I'm happy to add it. But I think you haven't understood what I meant about cutting the brushes "optimally". I want them to be cut so that they don't get extra vertices in the edges that they share with other brushes that are not affected by the cut. Because that would lead to the adjacent faces of those brushes to be cut up into more polygons, right?
This is easy to avoid in simple situations such as cutting a door frame into a brush, but it seems much harder when you do stuff like cut a brush (or several brushes) with a shape such as a sphere when the sphere. I'll have to think this through, but I'll add it to my todo list for when I work on CSG.
I Agree...
#475 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/11 15:53:28
actually but I think the damage caused by carve can be much greater (imagine carving a cylinder shape out of another cylinder shape, ouch!), I do remember there being a guide for carving brushes properly without making a mess.
These are certainly lessons to learn but I think the carve tool can be a bit of a crutch, there's a lot to be said about making decent pre-fabs to work with that optimise well.
+1 CSG Tools
#476 posted by sock [186.124.37.216] on 2013/03/11 15:53:41
I use CSG Subtract all the time, it goes really well with CSG Merge. I am with Willem on this one, CSG Subtract is an extremely useful tool that can produce good results if used wisely.
Okay
#477 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 15:56:57
It would be interesting to see some examples of how you guys use this and how you edit the resulting brushes so as to avoid the well known problems (additional face cuts etc.). I would be grateful if you could provide some screenshots (or videos).
CSG Subtract Squares Only
#478 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/11 16:37:45
CSG Subtract works well only if you do it with square shapes. If you try subtracting anything more, such as a pentagon, or circle, then there is no way for the editor to know how to properly set up the brushes around the cut. It becomes a mess of brushes.
I would say CSG Subtract should be available, but only for square shapes.
#479 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/11 16:42:25
That's ridiculous.
Depends
#480 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/11 16:56:03
If you can rotate the squares or not.
The Problem Is
#481 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 16:56:21
how to mimick what the human does to mop up after a dumb CSG subtract operation. That's why I'd like to see what you guys do.
It Takes About 5 Seconds
#482 posted by Kinn [109.152.140.20] on 2013/03/11 16:59:20
to chop a brush up with perfectly optimal geometry if you want to effectively punch a square hole in it.
CSG subtract is not necessary in that situation at all.
#483 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/11 17:03:09
When I found it handy for was making buttons. I could build a button brush, embed it into the wall and subtract it. Now the button has a nice recess to move into.
#484 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/11 17:03:51
Although I will agree that Merge would get used a lot more often than Subtract so if one needs to be done first, Merge would be the choice.
CSG Subtract A Circle
#485 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/11 17:11:01
With regard to what Qmaster said about the grid vertex snapping.
I believe the editor should have a preference for this.
I think it's similar to how I could do this in Quest.
In Quest, the config file has this option:
# ---------------
# snap_to_int <x>
# ---------------
#
# If set to 1, Quest will snap all vertices to integer values upon save. This
# should prevent vertex drifting. This is only used with the old map format.
snap_to_int 1
---
There are couple more settings in the config file that you might find interesting. See quest.cfg: http://pastebin.com/7CCDm8R6
#486 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/11 17:12:38
Kinn, why would someone want to use the slice tool 4 times to cut a square, when CSG Subtract can do it in 1 move.
Deqer
#487 posted by Kinn [109.152.140.20] on 2013/03/11 17:17:35
My point is that we don't need a stupid "csg subtract but only for square shapes" thing, when everyone can produce the equivalent geometry themselves in a few seconds without that feature?
Either make a proper csg subtract tool, or don't make it at all.
CSG Merge
#488 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 17:27:27
Will be cool because the code can be used for stuff like this:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBr...
That was rebb's idea, and it's absolutely great.
CSG Subtract Example, Messy.
#489 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/11 17:31:46
SleepwalkR,
Here is video of me doing CSG Subtract and I show the problems, and explain what I would've preferred the result to be.
http://youtu.be/7P1wS5INeAw
Yeah We Get It
#490 posted by Kinn [109.152.140.20] on 2013/03/11 17:38:31
The problem is inventing the algorithm that produces optimal results when csg subtracting arbitrary brushes.
CSG Merge
#491 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/11 17:43:30
Does look pretty cool, and more valuable than subtract.
Ijed
#492 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 17:46:39
This is not merge exactly, but it works in a similar fasion. The idea is to select a couple vertices (either by selecting brushes or by selecting faces), then creating the convex hull of those vertices and creating a brush from that.
If you select a couple of brushes which form a convex shape to begin with, you have CSG merge. The other cases are shown in the images I linked above.
I See Hollow
#493 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/11 17:49:15
Is mentioned on github as well - is this in/gonig to be?
Right
#494 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/11 17:50:06
Not sure what that should be called though :)
I Don't Care That You "get It"; I'm Still Going To Post It. Thx.
#495 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/11 17:52:05
Here's another video of CSG Subtract, doing arch window, and what I do to clean it up, and I explain what I would've preferred the result to be.
http://youtu.be/7-x47KvgL9U
Again, the problem is programming the logic, math, magic to be able to do CSG Subtract like this.
Honestly, CSG Subtract is too much magic for me to expect from a new editor anyways. I suppose you'd rather focus on more important things/features.
Will Be
#496 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 17:52:16
Again, there are questions as to how the resulting brushes should be shaped. My current idea is to extrude the outer faces and chop them off at their formal position.
It's basically this feature applied to each face of the brush:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBr...
That Last Post
#497 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 17:53:13
is a response to ijeds question about CSG hollow.
#498 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/11 17:54:18
See, now hollow is something I've never seen a use for. Does that get a lot of play for some people? I know it's good for "my first room" tutorials ... :)
Willem
#499 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/11 17:55:51
Apparently some people use it. I'm not a fan of any of the CSG operations, but if I'm going to support one, I guess I should support the others as well, esp. as hollow is quite simple compared to subtract.
Hollow
#500 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/11 18:17:23
I use it a lot for speedmapping / testmapping and sometimes for blocking out.
When it's time to put an area together properly I usually delete the resulting brushes.
CSG Subtract / Mapping Rhetoric
#501 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/11 18:27:29
The more predictable features (and therefore, hopefully the ones that are easier to implement) tend to be the most valuable.
Complex CSG functions have a bad rep for a reason. It doesn't mean they can't be well used though.
What I'm driving at is that the value of a feature is a result of balancing the pros and cons, not one or the other.
And both those should take into consideration things like 'time to implement' and 'will it be a bitch to get it right'.
But Also
#502 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.107.83] on 2013/03/11 19:00:29
"The fun to be had for the programmer", which for such difficult problems, is plenty!
Haha
#503 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/11 19:37:26
True.
Here's some of my own coding stuff, may be of interest even though not editor related.
http://spiney.me/schism/forum/inde...
Speed Difference Between Version 1 Vs Version 1.04?
#504 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/11 20:30:51
I have noticed that certain actions in 1.04 now take considerably longer than in version 1 (I updated the .exe to see if they were functionally different, I have now reverted back to the original release). The actions causing slowdown (that I could find) are duplicating items, alt+clicking to copy textures and making new brushes. I think it may be a consequence of editing a map from version 1 in version 1.04. Maybe.
If you want to check it for yourself SleepwalkR I could email you my level
FifthElephant
#505 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.228] on 2013/03/11 20:38:00
Please do. Even better, create a bug report at http://github.com/kduske/TrenchBro...
SleepwalkR
#506 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/11 21:06:16
I have created a bug report, though I haven't changed the wording or anything from here as I'm no good at tech stuff really. I'll send you the .map file too so that you can see if it's just my machine being rubbish.
Great
#507 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.228] on 2013/03/11 21:35:45
Don't worry, it's fine - I'll adapt the bug reports if necessary. Thanks!
#508 posted by sock [186.124.37.216] on 2013/03/12 11:44:45
It would be interesting to see some examples of how you guys use this and how you edit the resulting brushes so as to avoid the well known problems (additional face cuts etc.). I would be grateful if you could provide some screenshots (or videos).
Unfortunately I don't have any videos or screenshots examples because I don't have any maps in progress at the moment. I can describe when I use the CSG tools if that helps.
Personally I find CGS subtract useful when I am doing 3 point clipping. When I am trying to create two brushes that are flush against each other I will often use a duplicate brush to trim one brush to fit another. Afterwards I will use CSG merge to tidy up the brush fragments into better shapes.
The CSG tools work together when you subtract first and then merge afterwards. It is a two fold process and very much like a cutting knife, slicing odd shapes by using another brush as the template and the merge function fixing stuff afterwards.
I often hear newer mappers claim that CSG tools should be limited because *they can* make a mess, but if you are careful and understand how they work the CSG tools are very powerful and good for specific situations. If mappers are lazy and use them to create simple shapes then will make a terrible mess.
I would recommend coding CSG merge first because it has the most uses, especially for optimizing brushwork. Also new faces should adopt a similar texture to the first brush picked or mark new surfaces with caulk/skip instead so designers can see what has changed.
Where Are All Those...
#509 posted by Orbs [80.57.99.232] on 2013/03/12 15:27:01
sexy new maps to showing of your skills with this new editor :)
Cool Video By Daz
#510 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/12 16:57:19
Introducing TrenchBroom: http://t.co/MYGW6CCLBE
Thanks!
#511 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 18:06:05
Sorry, but the video is useless until there is a version of TrenchBroom that works like it works in the video.
Please fix the grid information; the garbled text. That should be your first priority.
It's On
#512 posted by Spirit [80.171.152.54] on 2013/03/12 18:11:27
Dude, stop being a demanding prick and keep mapping with Quest if that is what you want.
Deqer
#513 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/12 18:13:26
Seriously now, SleepwalkR has already stated that he's changing the text to a texture to fix that problem. Stop being a jerk about it, these things take time and this is actually a spare-time hobby project so just chill out and be patient!
Or, Deqer
#514 posted by mfx [92.227.144.84] on 2013/03/12 18:16:57
..fix them by yourself!
Thats why its on GitHub.
#515 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/12 18:18:22
That should be your first priority.
Or you'll fire him?
This isn't a mob grabbing the torches and pitchforks - just chill out.
Daz Pronounces .wad Different To Me.
#516 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/12 19:24:53
"Wad" hmmm - He uses a vowel sound like in 'mad', but I would use the vowel sound like in 'mod'. As in 'wads of cash'.
OCD much.
Also my college tutor pronounces iteration 'Eye-teration' Which is way worse IMO......
#517 posted by onetruepurple [91.240.47.30] on 2013/03/12 19:34:36
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...
Massive congratulations to Sleepy!
#518 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 19:46:14
Really, FifthElement? I see no indication that it's being done. I posted a bug, and I see no indication that my bug has been viewed at all.
What I do see, is him spending his time discussing CSG stuff and working on other features--according to github logs.
Other people have complained about the garbled text as well. How is this issue not of highest priority? Is it low priority because it isn't fun for the programmer? ...
The new slogan:
"TrenchBroom, a new editor! But, make sure you have a gaming video card!"
Yeah
#519 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/12 19:49:10
Sleepy, like I already told you on IRC (and you missed it), pimping TB through Carmack was a stroke of genius. This way it could gain some attention beyond this forum and ideally may just spark some renewed interest in Q1 mapping.
Wad Vs Wod
#520 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.222] on 2013/03/12 19:49:25
Same here, Ricky - I say it the way you do.
And thanks OTP - I didn't even know Rock, Paper, Shotgun so far (heard of the name, but didn't read it). Apparently it's a big thing, so if that drives more people to try TB or even help out with the development, that would be fantastic.
Negke
#521 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.222] on 2013/03/12 19:51:10
It was more of a spark of me celebrating TrenchBroom's release with a bit too much alcohol. I'm just happy I didn't put any spelling errors into that email ;-).
I was sure lucky that he retweeted it (on a friday no less, the tweet was there till monday) though. That was awfully nice of him.
Deqer
#522 posted by onetruepurple [91.240.47.30] on 2013/03/12 19:52:28
My guess would be you're getting ignored for being a gigantic tosser.
Deqer
#523 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/12 19:59:05
I'm sure this stuff will get done at some point, but SleepwalkR isn't getting paid to do this, he's just doing it for the community and his own pleasure (am I wrong?). So he gets to prioritise his own backlog. I mean there's no need to get 'shirty', it's not like you had to pay for this software.
Also development can be very tiring, and he's just released this, it's bound to be a busy time for him. But the stuff on Github is there for a reason, I'm sure he will systematically go through the various bugs and feature requests in his own time.
Wad Vs "wod"...
#524 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/12 20:04:46
I'm a Brit like Daz but I don't pronounce it the same as him.
#525 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/12 20:05:59
deqer
Can you take your self entitled attitude somewhere else, please? This is a hobbyist project that was released for free. You have zero ground to make demands on the programmers time. None.
Haha
#526 posted by DaZ [2.99.126.134] on 2013/03/12 20:07:12
It's hilarious when your own insulated views on game/technobabble pronunciations get onto the internet. I had honestly never thought about wad vs wod before now.
It's wAd though guys, c'mon now! ;)
The Ambiguity Of Arnolds Accent
#527 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/12 20:08:34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECv...
But John Connor Is Easier To Distinguish
#528 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/12 20:10:18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNo...
#529 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 20:14:23
"Dude, stop being a demanding prick and keep mapping with Quest if that is what you want. "
That's not what I want. What I want is to see TrenchBroom succeed and be the best editor out there, and I've been spending my time to help with that. So, sue me for getting frustrated.
Take your useless comments and kindly shove them up your ***. kthxbye.
#530 posted by Willem [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 20:16:37
"Can you take your self entitled attitude somewhere else, please?"
Nope.
Now that I've said "nope", maybe you'll step back and keep quiet now. Thanks.
North South Divide
#531 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/12 20:17:00
I'm a northerner and say 'wohd' as well.
#532 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/12 20:18:29
Nope.
Now that I've said "nope", maybe you'll step back and keep quiet now. Thanks.
Sure. It's your choice. Feel free to keep acting like an angry child. You're winning zero friends here.
Have fun!
#533 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 20:18:57
If you don't want to hear from the public, then maybe you shouldn't have released the editor to the public.
#534 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 20:19:38
"oh boy, yes! that's why im here. im looking for more friends.. yes!" lulz
Deqer
#535 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/12 20:20:47
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECv...
Deqer
#536 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/12 20:22:08
I sort of agree with your standpoint, but I mean your getting impatient after, like, a couple of days, dude. I mean take a pill man.
Deqer
#537 posted by Kinn [109.151.248.3] on 2013/03/12 20:38:11
If you have really been mapping for 15 years (which I seriously doubt judging by your general level of maturity and apparent skillset), you should know how this kind of community works, and that being such a colossal, simpering self-entitled little pillock is not really how we play cricket around here.
Let me just re-iterate. This is Sleepwalkr's fucking hobby. He is not getting paid for it, and you are in no position to throw your bottle out of the pram just because he doesn't want to drop everything and concede to your questionable demands.
#538 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/12 20:47:02
"oh boy, yes! that's why im here. im looking for more friends.. yes!" lulz
I'm sorry, I thought that my being here you were looking to be a part of the community.
So you're just here to be a dick or ... what?
#539 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/12 20:47:39
Rather, "I thought that BY being here..."
Stupid typos.
You Have Not The Wisdom With Spoons Eaten
#540 posted by Spirit [80.171.152.54] on 2013/03/12 20:53:00
deqer: Constructive criticism and brain-storming is very welcome. You are extending that to trying to force your opinion of "how it should work" and "what it should do" upon the author. Bugs that are high priority or even blockers for you might not be high priority for the author.
#541 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 20:56:56
Kinn, your post is fluffed and pointless. Quit wasting your time typing.
Yes, I've been mapping since Quake and long before Quake. Doom, Duke3d, etc. -- my level of maturity has no bearing. If my impatience--with someone else that isn't YOU--bothers YOU, then cry somewhere else about it, right? Right.
Hobby or not, paid or not, doesn't matter; we are involved. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now.
If SleepWalkR can't handle responding to the public, then maybe he shouldn't have released his editor to the public.
So, having said that, I'm definitely in a position to "throw my bottle out of the pram" as you put it.
I'm not expecting him to drop everything to deal with this issue. If he doesn't want to drop everything to deal with a specific issue, that's fine; then just say so then.
Do I really need to find 100 more people with the same issue to help raise the level of importance on the issue? Do I really need to do that?
It's like websites. You build your website to be compatible on all browsers, otherwise you risk losing a huge chunk of people that would/could/should've used this editor, and could also become part of the community then and assist.
CSG features don't help with that.
#542 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 20:59:05
"So you're just here to be a dick or ... what?"
Just because I'm here for TrenchBroom only and not for making friends, does not necessarily mean I'm here to be a dick. It just means I'm willing to be a dick if it comes to it. Usually it takes a second person to start the fight though; you know that. You know the expression "takes 2 to tango."
#543 posted by Spiney [91.177.59.78] on 2013/03/12 21:06:22
"Hobby or not, paid or not, doesn't matter; we are involved. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now.
If SleepWalkR can't handle responding to the public, then maybe he shouldn't have released his editor to the public."
Seriously, what the hell?
The source is open, there's your involvement.
Lol
#544 posted by onetruepurple [91.240.47.30] on 2013/03/12 21:07:31
The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now. We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.
#545 posted by Spirit [80.171.152.54] on 2013/03/12 21:12:37
Hobby or not, paid or not, doesn't matter; we are involved. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now.
That is great! Since TrenchBroom is free and open-source software under the GPL3 you can inspect the code, find the bug and write a patch then. I am sure Sleepwalkr would merge it quickly.
Do I really need to find 100 more people with the same issue to help raise the level of importance on the issue? Do I really need to do that?
Yes, of course. Because right now the level of importance seems fairly low. If there are really 101 people who want to map with TrenchBroom but are blocked from that opportunity by this bug, then this would make the bug very important.
#546 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/12 21:14:29
Just because I'm here for TrenchBroom only and not for making friends, does not necessarily mean I'm here to be a dick. It just means I'm willing to be a dick if it comes to it. Usually it takes a second person to start the fight though; you know that. You know the expression "takes 2 to tango."
Look, if you come stomping in here all blustering and demanding then you're going to ruffle feathers. You know that, that's why you're doing it. It's got nothing to do with the tango and everything to do with you being a dick.
Being a dick to a guy who spent the last year of his spare time writing a Quake editor which he released for free and is updating on a pretty regular basis. The problem, as it were, is that he's not working on YOUR pet problems. So you're being a dick to him and shitting up his thread.
Nice. You seem like a great guy.
Make That Three Years ;-)
#547 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.222] on 2013/03/12 21:19:19
#548 posted by Kinn [109.151.248.3] on 2013/03/12 21:21:50
Kinn, your post is fluffed and pointless. Quit wasting your time typing.
I admit my post is completely redundant, because everyone else here already said the same thing that I did.
#549 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/12 21:24:40
Make That Three Years ;-)
Oh, well, in that case pull up a chair. I have a list of demands I'd like to scream into your face... :P
Don't Feed The Troll
#550 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/12 21:25:20
Let him live out his aspergers elsewhere.
#551 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 21:38:33
Yes... because we're all programmers, right Spiney? ... Oh please...
We submit issues, the devs address them. It's that simple. Why would you expect all of us to be programmers and do the feature ourselves? How unrealistic does that seem to you?
It's no different than SleepwalkR expecting people to signup to github and post the issue themselves, when SleepwalkR could've done that himself with a copy/paste.
It's no different than contacting a company to submit a suggestion, and the representative says "please submit it in writing", and you respond "okay. why can't you submit it for me as i tell it to you over the phone? it's only 1 sentence." and the company is so hurtin' enough that they refuse to and make you do it. Terrible service.
"who spent the last year of his spare time writing a Quake editor which he released for free and is updating on a pretty regular basis"
Oh please... Don't give me that. He did it because it was fun. It wasn't a chore for him, and no one asked for this anyways. Of course it's free, who the hell would be insane enough to think they could charge for a level editor for a game from the 90s? That would be like mappers charging people to download their maps. lol.
"The problem, as it were, is that he's not working on YOUR pet problems."
No... The problem is 1) You've chosen to assume it's a pet problem, when you have no good reason to provide for your assumption. While on the otherhand, I've provided multiple reasons and videos. 2) lack of communication. 3) signs of proof that he isn't working on it. no ETA or anything. Just silence, and then talking about other features like CSG.
I don't even know if he's working on it or not; that's the problem, no communication. My response is no different than any other response of a "customer" in the field of business.
If you can't handle the public, then don't submit to the public.
---
But, you all just had to respond to my hate comment on the Daz video, right? You just had to... You felt the need to respond, for some reason; maybe reason to "teach my lesson?"
Sad, because I've seen no lessons to be learned here yet from your responses.
#552 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/12 21:51:07
Sad, because I've seen no lessons to be learned here yet from your responses.
And you never will. You've got your back up now, it's your against the world, and there is no way in HELL you're backing down now. There's nothing more to be gained in talking to you now.
Unbelievable
#553 posted by Kinn [109.151.248.3] on 2013/03/12 21:57:57
Deqer - it's this simple: It's a fucking hobby, so stop continually comparing this to work, and stop expecting him to treat it like work. You are not a fucking customer.
Sleepwalkr owes you nothing. You cannot demand anything from him, and you cannot lambast him for not delivering things according to your warped expectations and selfish sense of entitlement.
#554 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 21:59:41
Also, SleepwalkR gains experience from this. he also gains portfolio work. He gains a lot. So, don't give me that "he's doing it in his spare time, for free, for us" crap. He gains a lot from this project, and now he'd like to gain some popularity by releasing it to the public.
Kinn, he does owe the public since he's involved the public now. Otherwise he's just shooting himself in the foot.
---
"Don't Feed the Troll" ?
They aren't feeding a troll, they are arguing.
I don't think you know what troll means, so, do us a favor and don't talk unless you know what you're talking about. Go look up the definition of troll, and ask yourself if I'm really a troll. Perhaps for someone like you, you may want to ask yourself twice.
"There's nothing more to be gained in talking to you now. "
Good, I guess that means you'll all quit your bitching now. Cool.
Wanker
#555 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/12 22:06:28
#556 posted by Kinn [109.151.248.3] on 2013/03/12 22:09:42
Kinn, he does owe the public since he's involved the public now. Otherwise he's just shooting himself in the foot.
Bullshit. He is under no fucking obligation to do anything for any of us. He made something cool and free, and we are grateful for it, and he is happy to hear our feedback and make (or not make) whatever changes he wants completely according to his discretion.
Or he could drop it now, and move on to something else, and he still owes nothing to anyone.
This really should not be a difficult concept to grasp, and I'm almost certain you are a pitch-perfect troll now, because surely no-one can really be as thick as you appear to be?
Thoughts For Deqer
#557 posted by Baker [69.47.162.203] on 2013/03/12 22:15:45
When interacting with developers, it is important to be thoughtful and considerate.
Especially with "for free" projects.
The reason is that it takes a lot of time and effort to make these things and it is clear SleepwalkR has a large to-do list.
Developers often change their minds or become open to alternate ideas as the to-do list dwindles. Sometimes even ideas they previously rejected.
The natural order of things with a free project is patience and understanding, exercising those traits is helpful to the development and will make you a better person.
Those traits also make it easier for developers to interact with you, making it more likely to get what you want.
#558 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 22:19:16
Alright, yes, technically he doesn't owe us. Fine. You win, Kinn.
---
Anyways, moving on now.
So, where do we stand? We have about 7 people in here telling SleepwalkR the same stuff as I have been telling. Mainly grid stuff, and 2d viewing/editing, etc.
So, I guess I need to find 93 more people. lol. pathetic.
Baker
#559 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/12 22:21:15
Baker, you're right, and thanks for the soft post.
I guess my patience isn't as great as it should be for situations like this.
I've spent my time and patience so far, and I guess it's not enough, and I guess I need to accept that.
Okay.
"How Unrealistic Does That Seem To You?"
#560 posted by Spiney [91.177.59.78] on 2013/03/13 00:24:35
Support For Scourge Of Armagon + Dissolution Of Eternity Content?
#561 posted by MacD11 [24.251.252.252] on 2013/03/13 00:34:10
This would be very nice to have.
Mission Packs
#562 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.222] on 2013/03/13 00:36:22
I'm not sure but I suspect all you need for that are entity definitions, right? If you find a .def file or preferably a .fgd file for them, I'll gladly adapt them and add them to the editor.
Adding Any Custom .def Files To Editor?
#563 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 01:50:04
"If you find a .def file or preferably a .fgd file for them, I'll gladly adapt them and add them to the editor. "
So, you'll be adding the hexen2.def file I linked above?--or maybe you already added it? Have you already added other common ones such as: quake2.def, hl.def, etc. ?
The link (above) for the hexen2.def is actually a sub folder. You'll find the other .def files in the root folder. Here is a direct link for you, to make it easier: https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0... --- The TrenchBroom folder is for compatible versions of the .def files, compatible for TB. I explained in previous posts here what that means--the fixes I made to get the .def file to load.
Can't say I understand all 10 of those .def files. For example, not sure what ctf.def, and detail.def would be for--because you'd figure the quake.def or quake2.def or whatever_game.def would already have the ctf entities in it for that specific game. But for the ones like heretic2.def, hl.def for half-life, sin.def, etc., yes.
Wow... Was That Worth It?
#564 posted by Skiffy [219.92.52.163] on 2013/03/13 05:07:14
Well that was in interesting discussion... Me I try to whisper suggestions of things that would be "nice to have"
I can't comprehend how anyone could demand features for a free project like this. Its free done in their own time and I will gladly use it and give suggestions if they will be heard. If folks come in and make an ass of themselves plus piss off the developer... not the smartest thing to do. You catch more flies with honey then you do with vinegar my friends.
SleepwalkR you rock. Keep up the awesome work. You're revitalizing the quake based engine mapping community with this new tool. That's the best thing too. ITS NEW! lovely stuff.
Now everyone hug each other and make up.
#565 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/13 12:40:21
Hah! Autosave just saved my ass. Thanks! :P
Great Release!
#566 posted by zxc [83.22.142.104] on 2013/03/13 12:50:53
I haven't been mapping since ~8 years. A post on Rock Paper Shotgun brought me here. I immedieately started mapping and got into a frenzy of straight 1h mapping session - just work, no distractions, no facebook, no mail, only the flow of mapmaking. Unfortunately the editor crashed on me and I lost my work.
Great great work man. You rock! This editor reminded me how fun mapping was.
Zxc
#567 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.107.15] on 2013/03/13 12:57:51
Thanks! Can you say how you got it to crash? Also, if you had previously saved, the editor will create automatic backups every five minutes or so, so your work might not be lost. Look at the autosave did in the directory where you (hopefully!) saved your maps.
#568 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/13 13:21:04
This won't help in any way but my crash came when I was attempting to resize a brush. Get on that, will you? :)
Is That Brush Still In The Autosave
#569 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.107.15] on 2013/03/13 13:34:11
And can you reproduce it?
Dumb Question
#570 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.107.15] on 2013/03/13 13:34:37
You would have said so.
#571 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/13 13:53:09
No, not dumb, I didn't think of that. However, I do remember opening the autosave and redo-ing that operation right away and it was fine so it was clearly some kind of long term hiccup thing.
TrenchbRoom
#572 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 14:04:43
The origins:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_...
#573 posted by necros [142.245.59.16] on 2013/03/13 14:06:25
I have experienced crashes like what Willem is describing where a seemingly normal operation crashed the editor and then reloading to a prior save (done just before the operation that crashed) and redoing that same operation produced no error.
I haven't opened a ticket because I haven't been able to figure what actually caused it.
Okay
#574 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/13 14:15:27
Well I suppose it is caused by memory corruption. Please, if you experience something like this again, let me know if you have used undo before, I suspect that there are still bugs in there somewhere.
Use With Hammer
#575 posted by Elevory [107.9.11.232] on 2013/03/13 15:43:04
Great program! :-) I'd like to use TrenchBroom for basic brushwork and then import my map file into Valve Hammer Editor, as Counter-Strike interests me more than Quake 1... I'm to understand this is possible, but I'm getting the following error in Hammer upon opening the file:
http://4ce.ca/images/sharex/2013-0...
Any support would be highly appreciated.
Hi Elevory
#576 posted by RickyT23 [86.149.175.67] on 2013/03/13 16:16:10
I have already brought this issue to the attention of SleepwalkR (Trenchbroom author) and a ticket has been raised over on the Github.
The bug is caused by the Valve 220 protocol texture positioning info not being the same as the standard Quake info.
SleepwalkR has declared this 'a bug', and it is AFAIK on the list of things to be 'fixed'! Which is great because I am in the same boat as you are ;)
@ SleepwalkR
#577 posted by zxc [83.22.142.104] on 2013/03/13 16:38:47
No, I didn't save even one time - rushed straight into mapping - so no autosave for me.
I doubt if I can reproduce this crash - it was something with scaling and selection of multiple brushes at the same time.
Not Going To Comment On My .def Files Post, SleepwalkR?
#578 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 17:27:22
SleepwalkR,
Why--for the second time now--have you not commented on the .def file stuff I've been doing?
Why as soon as MacD11 asks about it, you jump out of your chair and say "I'd be glad to add any .def files you submit!"
Is it true? onetruepurple said I'm being ignore now?
You ignoring me?
You mad?
I also messaged you on IRC, 24 hours ago, and no response. I messaged "why no irc channel for trenchbroom?"
Yes, I messaged a person named "SleepwalkR"--not too many people out there with the name "SleepwalkR" with a capital "R" at the end, on irc.quakenet.org--So, I'm pretty sure it's you.
So, I guess you're ignoring me.
Well well, you poor baby. You mad. You giving me the "Silent Treatment" now? Trying to teach me a lesson? Awww, you poor ****ing baby.
Here's a tissue for your tears. *hands you tissue*
---
Sorry to post this here, but you provide no other contact information. So, I have no choice but to post here, and "dirty the thread up?" as someone called it.
Oh Fuck Of Deqer
#579 posted by RickyT23 [86.149.175.67] on 2013/03/13 17:36:29
Just use Quest and keep the fuck off this forum.
#580 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/13 17:37:17
He doesn't want to interact with you. U mad?
Lul
#581 posted by Vondur [80.87.145.18] on 2013/03/13 17:44:48
deqer, this is the treatment you'll be getting for such an attitude from the regulars of this board.
relax, go use radiant or whatever for your quake 2 boxmaps and stop polluting interwebs with your posts.
Deqer
#582 posted by Kinn [109.151.248.3] on 2013/03/13 17:58:15
Yes it does appear to be the case that your requests are being ignored. Hmm, yes we should probably investigate this peculiar turn of events...I'm sure there must be some reason for this, if only I can remember-
-oh wait, it's because you're a cunt.
Elevory, Ricky
#583 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/13 18:05:12
Ricky, I understand your issue was about importing Hammer maps (or rather, Valve 220 maps) into TrenchBroom, which causes TB to choke.
Elevory, your issue seems to happen when doing it the other way round: Importing a TB map into Hammer. TB doesn't support the Valve 220 map format yet. Full support for it is planned for the 1.2 release, though:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBr...
But I'm afraid it will take a while!
Will 1.2
#584 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 18:08:32
Include stripping out the extra data or actually recognizing / reading it?
If I remember rightly Necros (?) was working on a stripper script that would remove the extra data attached to each face string.
Recognizing it would be the first step supporting the advanced texture projection.
Ijed
#585 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/13 18:09:47
Fixing the parser to strip the extra data is scheduled for the next maintenance release. Actually recognizing and reading the data as well as in-editor support for changing the projection axes and saving .220 map files is what's planned for 1.2.
Although
#586 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 18:12:04
I fully appreciate the difficulty in reverse engineering it and maintaining the original .map format, which is definitely a strength.
Aha
#587 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 18:12:56
Ok then :)
What's Going On Here
#588 posted by Friction [91.154.119.202] on 2013/03/13 18:13:28
Like seriously. Mad seriously.
Ijed
#589 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/13 18:14:21
The Valve 220 format is properly documented and I know how it works. The Mac version already had support for it, but that feature got lost in the C++ rewrite.
You will be able to set the format in the map properties dialog. So if the map is standard Quake, TB will save standard Quake. If it is 220, then it will save 220 (and give you the additional tools to adjust the texture projection per face).
Will You..
#590 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/13 18:25:00
be able to open a normal map file and then re-save it into 220 at a later date to fix up the textures?
Sounds Like It
#591 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 18:26:42
And that's awesome.
Thanks for the continued dedication to this project, it's well appreciated.
Beer++; Continue;
#592 posted by Spirit [80.187.111.27] on 2013/03/13 18:26:55
Vondur
#593 posted by onetruepurple [91.240.47.30] on 2013/03/13 18:28:53
Quest and Quake 3.
Friction
#594 posted by Kinn [109.151.248.3] on 2013/03/13 18:29:29
What's Going On Here
He's the turd that won't flush.
FifthElephant
#595 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/13 18:30:32
Conversion of standard Quake to Valve 220 map is trivial (it will not affect the textures), but the other way round is tricky. I'm not quite sure how well TB will support that.
#596 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 18:40:01
"What's Going On Here?"
What's going on? SleepwalkR is being a bitch, just like all programmers.
I'm not surprised. Programmers are bitches, and many people have known that for years.
Maybe I should post videos of the things that trenchbroom lacks, and promote those videos as a "beware" message to all mappers out there. Would that help?
"Oh Fuck Of Deqer "
Thanks Ricky. I know, the truth hurts, doesn't it.
#597 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/13 18:51:24
deqer
U mad?
Sleep
#598 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 19:09:42
I think the most sane choice would be to discard the additional texture information.
As much as I like how it works, it does have its limitations - often when slicing a brush it'll corrupt the projection leaving the actual BSP unplayable on certain engines (that being a linux issue AFAIK, but I could be wrong).
Trying to replicate the projection sounds like a minefield, and one it'd only be possible to partially cross before you lost your legs. Then arms, etc.
#599 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 19:10:15
Willem, nope. Like I said, I'm not surprised. I'm just pointing out the facts.
Even when people are nice, they still get ignored by programmers.
Heck, even the Project Manager in the company I work for complains about the same thing. Says the same thing too, lol, "programmers are such bitches."
So, if SleepwalkR feels he's better off being a bitch, then so be it. "Not to sound harsh or anything", right SleepwalkR? heh.
I'm sure he uses that quote a lot, "Not to sound harsh but ... ", but doesn't realize that it's complete bullshit when you actually read his entire post that follows that quote. lol
Ijed
#600 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.107.15] on 2013/03/13 19:17:03
Not quite sure what you mean now. Are you talking about converting 220 to standard Quake? There would only be approximate solutions in that case, but I could at least try to keep the texture's center pixel in a face intact. This is how texture lock works right now.
I Was Referring
#601 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 19:20:19
To both, but yeah, in the previous I was talking about 220 -> .map.
Keeping it locked as you mention sounds the best solution.
#602 posted by necros [142.245.59.9] on 2013/03/13 19:21:29
I think the most sane choice would be to discard the additional texture information.
As much as I like how it works, it does have its limitations - often when slicing a brush it'll corrupt the projection leaving the actual BSP unplayable on certain engines (that being a linux issue AFAIK, but I could be wrong).
Trying to replicate the projection sounds like a minefield, and one it'd only be possible to partially cross before you lost your legs. Then arms, etc.
I think that the texture projection stuff is powerful enough that it's worth trying to get it working. especially if you could directly control it in the editor, to, for example, make tri-souped terrain faces all use the same projection.
Necros
#603 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.107.15] on 2013/03/13 19:23:15
That's the plan, yeah. All modern compilers can handle the 220 format anyway and to Quake it's all the same AFAIK because QBSP generates the texture coordinates for the engine.
Yeah
#604 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 19:27:06
I just meant the scope of the conversion features - once you're working in 220 you probably won't want to change back anyway unless exporting to another editor.
Deqer
#605 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/13 19:33:34
What hurts is your ridiculous tone. Your inane sense of self-importance, your impatience.
I'm basically reading this thread, interested in the development of a new editor and talking to a bunch of fellow Quake fans and hobby Quake developers, many of which I have been chatting to for years.
When somebody comes straight in with a poor attitude, strange grasp of reality and high level of hubris, and then starts being unnecessarily rude to people who have every right to do as they please then YES I get annoyed, and if I were you I would listen to the other people who are also tired of your ridiculous attitude, and just stop trolling this thread with your sorry antagonistic arrogant deluded bizarre angle.
For one, I don't know what the fuck planet you are on. I was intrigued by your early posts, but I rapidly started to get suspect when I viewed a YouTube video called 'How to Make a Staircase in Trenchbroom' or something similar which depicted some absolute nonsense poor methodology of some idiot playing around in the ancient Quest editor. I mean what the hell!?! That's just a pure troll attempt at SleepwalkR, and anybody interested in Trenchbroom who might be looking for related videos on YouTube.
You should delete that shit. It's bullshit, and you, sir, are a moron.
What's all this crap you were saying on another forum, bitching because someone gave you a 7/10 and you thought your map was a 10/10?!?! I mean that just makes you sound like a complete moron from the start.
We don't want it here, so please fuck off!! Maybe if you apologised for being so arrogant and insulting (verging on bigoted - WTF Programmers are bitches, and many people have known that for years. - Do you know how stupid that makes you sound?!?! If anything you just look like an idiot for thinking that everyone of a particular type is a 'bitch')..... Sorry - maybe if you apologised for being such a completely rude, arrogant, impatient and insulting person towards Sleeps, and then stopped being all of the above, you might get a little further.
SleepwalkR
#606 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/13 19:35:58
In Worldcraft there seem to be two different modes for textures. 'Tow World' and 'To Face'. As far as I can tell, 'To Face' is the rogue type. So perhaps it would be possible to convert the 'To World' ones to standard Quake info, and just approximate or [reset to zeros] all of the 'To Face' ones.
RickyT23
#607 posted by Kinn [109.151.248.3] on 2013/03/13 19:46:30
Just ignore him, his posts are all insane, indefensible drivel and the only thing left to do is ignore him otherwise he'll keep posting.
Ricky
#608 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.63.216] on 2013/03/13 19:47:38
Yes, but that's a limitation of Hammer. Actually you can define any coordinate system for the texture projection. But yeah, "to world" can be converted 1:1.
TB -> Hammer
#609 posted by DaZ [89.243.12.102] on 2013/03/13 20:06:04
I was able to successfully open a .map file created using TB in Hammer 3.4.
At first I thought it may have worked because I didn't texture any brush faces, but I just did a 2nd test with textured brushes and that opened just fine also.
Hmm, more tests. I can create maps in Hammer 3.4, export to .map and open that map in TB just fine also.
Am I being dumb? I hope this helps if you were having problems here.
Tick The Boxes
#610 posted by Spiney [91.177.59.78] on 2013/03/13 20:44:31
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narci...
RickyT23
#611 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 20:44:41
"What's all this crap you were saying on another forum, bitching because someone gave you a 7/10 and you thought your map was a 10/10?!?! I mean that just makes you sound like a complete moron from the start. "
No. I questioned his rating because he didn't provide a valid explanation to it. The other people rated it 10/10.
When I questioned his rating, he turned into a little kiddie about it and changed his rating to 0/10 to spite me. So, I requested that my map be removed, because I don't support rating systems where spite votes are allowed.
Why else do you think lvlworld.com has a new website now where the rating system has changed now; you now need reputation to vote, and votes and be rated now with thumb-up and thumb-down.
Why do you think I disabled ratings on my youtube videos? Because there are few losers here who will thumb-down just for spite.
---
Apologize? Apologize for what? Apologize for responding/questioning the fact that SleepwalkR didn't put much thought into my original post and immediately responded with "nope" essentially.
Nah.
Yeah Dude
#612 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/13 20:54:26
The guy gave you a seven out of ten.
He was a tough customer, but you didn't manage to wow him enough that he had to give you a 10. Because your map wasn't good enough to do that. If it was then he would have given you a ten, get it? 'All is fair in love and war'
Nah just apologise for being rude and the turning into a total troll.
And alienating yourself. But you can apologise to yourself for doing that.
I've released a bunch of maps, but I'm not such an arrogant person that I think I have a right for people to agree with the rating that I would give to my own map myself. That is very very arrogant. And for your information - nobody likes an arrogant prick.
And your belligerent attitude towards 'all who do not agree with you' just makes you unpleasant. Frankly I couldn't give a fuck about any of your maps or your opinion, I just want you to stop posting.
#613 posted by Kinn [109.151.248.3] on 2013/03/13 20:55:35
When I questioned his rating, he turned into a little kiddie about it and changed his rating to 0/10 to spite me. So, I requested that my map be removed, because I don't support rating systems where spite votes are allowed.
That's it guys, we've hit peak irony here. Pack it all up, The Internet's over, nothing more to see here.
(yeah yeah, I know I just said we should ignore this guy, but sometimes, you just can't).
Deqer - I wish I could quit you. ;¬#
Lol
#614 posted by Spiney [91.177.59.78] on 2013/03/13 21:19:24
I also try ignore him.
It's just too tempting to poke back because you know he's going to come with some ridiculous cringe-worthy responses. It's a vicious cycle.
My hat goes off to the people civilized enough to show restraint, haha.
Being Ignored You Should, Deqer
#615 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 21:22:48
Stop trolling this thread, and yeah, like Spirit said:
"You Have Not The Wisdom With Spoons Eaten"
All said, canadian moron.
Greetings from Berlin :)
Mfx
#616 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.63.216] on 2013/03/13 21:26:48
A fellow Berliner!
Tasty
#617 posted by rebb [80.141.112.202] on 2013/03/13 21:33:09
http://www.baeckerei-martin-schnei...
#618 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 21:35:52
"He was a tough customer, but you didn't manage to wow him enough that he had to give you a 10. Because your map wasn't good enough to do that. If it was then he would have given you a ten, get it?"
If you're not going to explain your rating, then don't rate. It's pointless.
Just like SleepwalkR, if you're not going to explain yourself and rather just effortlessly say "nope" essentially, then, well, there you go.
Even though we have 7 people in here telling you the same thing. You're all like "nope."
What does Canada have to do with it? I could've been born in Germany, and I'd still have the same response. I could care less where I was born, or live. It just so "happens" that I'm in Canada. Big--whooptie doo dah--deal...
#619 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/13 21:38:32
He has a point. Stupidity doesn't respect borders.
Typical Attitude Of Programmer.
#620 posted by deqre [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 21:39:29
Typical attitude of programmer:
"I am god, and therefore I do not need to be patient with any of you. Nope. One slip from you, and now you're on my shitlist, because I am god here."
And Deqer, Never I Thought...
#621 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 21:41:57
this holy Func_Msg Board could turn into a somehow insulting, inpolite
Youtube comment-like something...
Shame on you, and your videos are ****
Importing Quest into TB and what?? Nearly laughed my head off.
Thanks to Sleepwalker, for giving this sleepwaking community this powerful tool, to let us dream on in our own designed nightmares..
What a giant you are Sleepy, thank you!
PS: Sleepwalker, a beer is waiting for you at the STÄV, if you like Kölsch...:)
Good Night
#622 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/13 21:43:56
i'll admit whilst part of me finds this all very hilarious, another part questions the morality of ganging up on someone who is clearly autistic
I Do!
#623 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.63.216] on 2013/03/13 21:44:35
Drop me a line at kristian.duske@gmail.com!
Neil Young Is Great, Has Nothing To Do With CN, Sorry.
#624 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 21:47:29
But you still ... you know?
Sleepwalkin Not Alone You Will Be
#625 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 21:49:52
Sleepwalkin Not Alone You Will Be
#626 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 21:52:27
Now I'm A Bit Scared ;-)
#627 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.63.216] on 2013/03/13 21:54:34
#628 posted by mfx [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 21:55:27
According to my original post, I'm polite.
According to SleepwalkR's post, he isn't. He didn't even think twice about it; didn't even think once about it; he responded immediately; and to top it off, he added that generic shit liner you hear from people a lot: "if you don't like it, go somewhere else."
So, do the math.
And did I mention we have 7 other people in here telling him the same thing? And he's ignoring it all.
What The Fuck?!?
#629 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 21:57:00
Stop using my name Deqer!!!!
Or You´ll Be Fired...
#630 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 22:01:22
Sorry SW double post in Joda while refreshing tab.
Mfx
#631 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 22:03:55
this holy Func_Msg Board could turn into a somehow insulting, inpolite
Youtube comment-like something...
You must be new here :)
#632 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 22:04:19
Didn't close bracket..
Sorry Msx
#633 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 22:07:28
My mistake. I made same mistake with Willem's name too. Sorry. I can only hope the readers can see that mistake.
Don't Worry
#634 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/13 22:11:15
It's impossible to mistake you for anyone else, no matter what name you use.
No Ijed
#635 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 22:13:02
been here observing for like 6 years or so, but never I felt like having to comment or something.
But I have some new Q1 stuff which I did the last year (and will be released if i find some beta testers...<-hint)
Btw Q1 was my first love, and it will be my first. ;)
Mfx
#636 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.63.216] on 2013/03/13 22:14:56
Just go to the Screenshots thread and post a shot there with a plea for testers and you'll find plenty I'm sure.
Which Screenshot Thread, SW?
#637 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 22:35:30
sorry, im dumb..
#638 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.182] on 2013/03/13 22:38:36
click the forum link at the top of the page here, 5th item down on the resulting page. Sign up too! :-)
Thanx Did It
#639 posted by mfx [92.225.218.95] on 2013/03/13 22:52:32
and be prepared...
I'm Sorry.
#640 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 23:27:42
Alright guys, I'm sorry. Really, I am. I sincerely apologize for my behaviour in here.
My actions here have touched some people in a serious manner, and I didn't think twice about that.
Looks like my reputation is ruined, now. :/
All I can do is move on, and be calm; and hope to gain back some reputation, and ultimately some respect from the regulars here.
I'm just a stranger here, you know. Unfortunately I did not grow up in this community, and that makes things harder.
I've registered an account here now, and I plan to contribute to the community in any way I can. I will be checking the Mapping help thread, and Screenshots, and such, and provide any help I can--not because I feel punished and that I need to--because I actually like to do that anyways; like to help out.
Again, I'm sorry, and ask for your forgiveness.
Fixed Videos.
#641 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/13 23:33:38
I fixed up my videos as well, so they are not misleading, and I removed the bad videos.
Deqer
#642 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.63.216] on 2013/03/13 23:34:41
Welcome back!
The text bug is on my todo list, and it will get fixed when the text system is replaced with a better, faster version. I'll see if I can fix it sooner though, as it seems to be related to the "OpenGL Instancing" setting as well. I'll look into it for 1.0.5.
Everyone else: Let's give deqer a break so that we can get back on topic.
SleepwalkR
#643 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/13 23:44:02
it's good to know I can port over to 220 when the time comes, I seem to be coping fine without it really but I am definitely a perfectionist about things like texture alignment. Can't wait to see the future of the editor if this is the beginning.
@SleepwalkR
#644 posted by Elevory [107.9.11.232] on 2013/03/14 05:56:07
Definitely looking forward to version 1.2, then! Very happy to have discovered this software.
Btw
#645 posted by metlslime [50.131.113.141] on 2013/03/14 08:28:49
this is now the longest news thread on func (fitzquake 0.85 thread has 643 posts.)
Hexen 2
#646 posted by Hareton [89.70.100.212] on 2013/03/14 11:44:30
I hope you will make Hexen 2 support soon.
Hareton
#647 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/14 11:46:28
I will take a while and will definitely not happen before release 1.2. There are more pressing issues, and my time is limited. Sorry!
Hareton
#648 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/14 12:27:33
People tell me that you just need a Hexen 2 .def and .fgd file. Deqer provided one here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0...
But he says it doesn't load properly. I can't test it right now, but maybe you can edit it or isolate the errors. TrenchBroom should give you more or less meaningful error messages as to where the parser chokes.
Addendum
#649 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/14 12:33:25
There was a Hexen II FGD file for worldcraft by autolycus at some point:
http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/...
But I can't download it. Maybe someone in the Hexen II community has it. It should work with TrenchBroom.
Another Addendum
#650 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/14 12:33:56
If you get it to work, it would be nice if you could upload the def or fgd file somewhere for me. Then I can include it in the editor.
Final Addendum ;-)
#651 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/14 12:41:13
I have found a Hexen II FGD file and uploaded it here:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7009168/F...
I can't test it right now, but maybe it works right out of the box.
#652 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/14 12:55:46
Just to clarify, the hexen2.def I linked above is the one I fixed.
BTW, I tried the hexen2.fgd you linked now, SleepwalkR, and it loads fine. However, the entities aren't as colorful as the hexen2.def file. Not sure if that matters; just looks prettier. lol.
I'll fix up the other .def files I have, and link them soon.
BTW, if anyone is interested, I posted another video, 3 minutes long, about working with textures in trenchbroom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnE...
Colours
#653 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/14 13:58:54
Def and fgd both have the colours of entities written into each entry and you can customise them as you wish.
It usually helps a bit to do this when working on a mod and you start adding more helpers and stuff.
Colors
#654 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.102.164] on 2013/03/14 14:04:19
In the builtin defs could be more diverse too. Any takers ? ;-)
Funnily Enough
#655 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/14 14:14:27
I'm just looking at my own fgd right now and seeing why it doesn't work.
It seems there's some extended functionality not used in CZGs fgd that I have for presets and CSS style settings where some values are inherited by all things of a type, for example monsters.
There's also a @main that it chokes on but which is only used for WC to define default entities and is easily commented.
I can't use TB just yet since my WIP maps are all in 220 format, but I'll add colours to the various def files if you want, following the precedents in the rubicon2 fgd.
Quick Question...
#656 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/14 14:22:43
Anyone build the windows version of TrenchBroom with CodeBlocks? I felt I'd pretty much got there before but had some annoying problems that I'm about to try and resolve. If anyone has any insight to getting it up and running without needing visual studio bloated crapware installed then that info would be much appreciated.
I'm going to try and compile wxWidgets in much the same way I did with the linux version and see if it works, though I'm guessing the binaries mentioned in the build.txt file might be a better bet.
Than
#657 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/14 14:52:18
Not sure how you can use the wxWidgets binaries in Code::Blocks, but it should work. I would prefer to use them as it will put less burden on those who also want to use Code::Blocks on Windows.
Let me know if you get anywhere, or send me a pull request with a Code::Blocks project file.
Hexen II Support
#658 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/14 16:24:37
Unfortunately there is more info in a Hexen II map file than in a Quake map file, so support for the game is not a question of simply adding an FGD.
I have found an updated FGD and wads here:
http://dronedev.net/mapconv/
Serious Problem For Me In Latest Windows Version
#659 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/14 16:45:52
I can't load any maps other than those I've just made with TrenchBroom; I can't even load a map I made with a different version of TB.
I tried loading E1M1.MAP and a couple of other things, but no luck whatsoever. At first I thought it was the 3d view, but I can draw new brushes as usual. If I save a map, I can then load it and have it work properly - only previously saved maps aren't working :/
When trying to load these maps, there are no error messages, but no textures or entities load with the map, and nothing is displayed in the 3d view unless I draw a brush :(
saving gives me a 0KB file, so the map is clearly not being loaded. Anyone else have this issue?
Note that this is *not* some broken version I just compiled (still working on it :/ ), but the regular windows download from the TB homepage (1.0.4 129).
Can You Send Me An Example Map?
#660 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/14 16:47:00
Than
#661 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/03/14 17:56:51
not having that issue with that version at all.
when loading a map does the console window show something like:
Unloading existing map file and textures...
Loading file E:\q1maps\blahh2.map
Loaded map file in 0.000000 seconds
Loaded E:\q1maps\hex2.wad in 0.005000 seconds
?
Moar Features
#662 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/14 19:08:56
I don't know if this has been suggested or is already implemented, but there definitely need to be options to move (or add) world brushes to an existing brush entity as well as the other way around. Ideally a little more versatile than "ungroup" in Radiant 1.5 which always converts (or removes if you will) the entire entity, whereas it's sometimes desirable only to apply the action to certain brushes.
Negke...
#663 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/14 19:17:02
You already can added and remove brushes that way. to add to the world spawn, you select the objects in the brush entity and then right click outside the selection "add to world spawn"... and vice versa to add to an entity.
Ok, Good
#664 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/14 19:22:52
Negke
#665 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.224.221] on 2013/03/14 20:08:20
RTFM!
Never!
#666 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/14 20:15:33
Unless... how about including it in audio book form!!!
#667 posted by necros [142.245.59.11] on 2013/03/14 20:20:03
you wouldn't like my voice.
#668 posted by Spirit [80.171.127.253] on 2013/03/14 20:22:37
do i need to whip out espeak again, negkenegkenegkenegkenegkenegkenegk...
I Didn't Even Rtfm...
#669 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/14 20:32:55
found it by accident making a lift... :P
SleepwalkR
#670 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/14 22:39:03
Can you send me all the defs/fgs you're using currently?
Latest download has just quake/quoth fgd and rubicon2 def.
Email In Profile
#671 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/14 22:39:35
Or;
louismanning (at) gmail
I Don't Habe Any Others
#672 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.168] on 2013/03/15 01:05:30
Or did you mean Hexen etc?
Tried To Fix More Def Files. Failed. But, Fixed Heretic2.def
#673 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/15 03:47:26
I tried to fix more of the .def files I had, but no luck.
I made a FAIL video of my attempts to fix the .def files, for anyone that's interested.
At the end of the video, I give up on heretic2.def, where the error was asking for a newline but I did not believe it.
Well, after the video, I tried newline, and it worked. Had to fix 10 more of those newline errors. Eventually, I finished, and heretic2.def now loads in TrenchBroom.
Here is the link:
Fixed .def files:
heretic2.def - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0...
I'll link you the hexen2.def file again as well,
hexen2.def - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0...
FAIL video of my attempts to fix .def file parse errors: http://youtu.be/rFmYmQMTqD8
Worldcraft 1.6a
#674 posted by thanontoilet [141.0.11.25] on 2013/03/15 09:29:01
Has hexen 2 fgds I think. Probably zerstorer and others. Try downloading it from the tools section of quaddicted.
Than, Deqer
#675 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 10:38:42
I already have these FGDs now:
from The Forge
- Quake Scource of Armagon
- Quake Dissolution of Eternity
- Zerstoerer
- Hexen 2
- Quake 2 with Arghrad support
- Quake 2 Ground Zero
- Quake 2 The Reckoning
from Hexen 2 Hammer adapter
- Hexen 2 (bit.ly/XDpPZ4)
For now, it does not make much sense to work on DEFs or FGDs for games that need extra support from TrenchBroom, as this will take a while. And since noone really maps for the MPs or Zerstoerer, there's not much to be gained from pouring work into improving those FGDs either.
Give This A Whirl Last Night
#676 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/15 10:43:37
a few minor glitches i'm getting; after 674 posts i can't be 100% sure they haven't occurred for anyone else and are being looked at!
1. the 'X' button on the view and texture filters don't seem to work; they select the text in their respective fields but don't remove anything
2. the keyboard shortcut for rotating a texture 90 degrees does nothing for me; i can do it by holding ctrl and clicking on the spinner, and can also press shift-pgdn to rotate it one degree, but nothing for ctrl-pgdn/pgup
3. the increase/decrease grid size shortcuts only work on the -/+ keys next to backspace, not the num pad ones (which are far easier to access without looking!)
also some minor interface suggestions:
1. it would be nice to have some visual indication of texture lock being on or off without having to check the edit menu. and definitely a shortcut to toggle it :)
2. same goes for current grid size; i remember you saying you were considering an alternative to a status bar though so assuming this is being considered already.
3. pretty much second DaZ's thoughts about the entity window in his video. you may have already figured out a solution but i think it would be cool being able to add field names by right-clicking and selecting from a little menu based on the fgd/def info for that entity
lastly, a question: is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the entity/face/view tabs?
Eesh
#677 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/15 10:48:33
a few minor glitches i'm getting; after 674 posts i can't be 100% sure they haven't occurred for anyone else and aren't being looked at!
1. the 'X' buttons on the view and texture filters don't seem to work; they select the text in their respective fields but don't remove anything
Rj
#678 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 11:24:29
1. the 'X' button on the view and texture filters don't seem to work; they select the text in their respective fields but don't remove anything
That's a bug in the GUI library I'm using. Not much I can do about it right now I'm afraid.
2. the keyboard shortcut for rotating a texture 90 degrees does nothing for me; i can do it by holding ctrl and clicking on the spinner, and can also press shift-pgdn to rotate it one degree, but nothing for ctrl-pgdn/pgup
There is no such shortcut AFAIK. What exactly are you trying to do?
3. the increase/decrease grid size shortcuts only work on the -/+ keys next to backspace, not the num pad ones (which are far easier to access without looking!)
You will be able to assign the keyboard shortcuts in 1.1.
1. it would be nice to have some visual indication of texture lock being on or off without having to check the edit menu. and definitely a shortcut to toggle it :)
Others have request this, too, and it will probably go into the toolbar.
2. same goes for current grid size; i remember you saying you were considering an alternative to a status bar though so assuming this is being considered already.
Ditto.
3. pretty much second DaZ's thoughts about the entity window in his video. you may have already figured out a solution but i think it would be cool being able to add field names by right-clicking and selecting from a little menu based on the fgd/def info for that entity
Yes, entity editing will be improved a lot in 1.2.
lastly, a question: is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the entity/face/view tabs?
Not yet, but it's on my todo list.
Thanks for your feedback!
#679 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/15 11:54:06
There is no such shortcut AFAIK. What exactly are you trying to do?
following the guide here: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbro... ('Texture Rotation' heading)
Thanks for your feedback!
thanks for your editor!
#680 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/15 12:00:56
Is the viewport the current active window?
Yup
#681 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/15 12:05:12
the other texture shortcuts work fine. it's just that one...
In Fact, That Reminds Me
#682 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/15 12:14:12
another suggestion i forgot to mention. it might make everything a little bit quicker to use if running the cursor over a window/region made it 'active' providing a button isn't being pressed during mouse movement (i think this is how WC works)
sometimes i have to click in the viewport before being able to select a brush after working in the side panel, and other times i don't. not noticed any correlation yet though
Rj
#683 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 12:27:58
So you're shift-clicking on the little spin buttons next to the rotation field? Does Shift+click work for buttons next to the offset fields?
Regarding the focus issues: The 3D view has a focus rectangle drawn around it, and if you focus any other controls, you have to return focus to the 3D view by clicking on it once. Is the focus rectangle visible on your system? I have noticed that it is sometimes hard to see on Windows.
#684 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/15 12:55:56
What might help there would be to do what 3DS Max does ... the first click in an inactive viewport, simply makes it active. The click doesn't count. That way you can set focus without changing your selections or clicking something by accident.
Original Quake.map Source Wont Load?
#685 posted by Skiffy [219.92.52.163] on 2013/03/15 12:56:11
Hello SleepwalkR,
I was curious to check out the original source files inside Trench from quake 1. And from the looks of things they wont load?
http://planetquake.gamespy.com/Vie...
Here is the original Map files from ID software. I guess that the .map format has changed or something from back then?
Cheers!
Willem
#686 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 12:58:13
That's what it does right now?
#687 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.147] on 2013/03/15 12:58:28
They load find for me, can you be more specific?
Skiffy
#688 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 12:58:45
TB 1.0.4 is a turd that has several issues with loading maps. 1.0.5 will fix this.
#689 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.147] on 2013/03/15 13:00:01
How do you guys organise your wad files? TB always opens the "Quake directory" when I want to load wads. I would much rather have it always open the dir I lastly picked a wad in. Opinions?
Spirit
#690 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 13:01:51
I have no control over what directory the dialog opens in. It's a wxWidgets issue AFAIK.
Defs/fgds
#691 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/15 13:28:38
Ah, ok. When you said 'defs' before I was too literal.
The time difference worked against me, so hopefully I'll be able to do them tonight instead.
I was going to go with what Rubicon2 has defined, but I don't agree with everything there since some of the elements are mixed.
I prefer to group things by colour, how does this sound;
Player (all types of starts and tele destinations)
Monsters
Lights
Misc objects (fireballs, barrels etc)
Fx (sound/visual)
Path / Logic (relay, path_corners)
Collectables (Health / Armour)
Weapons / Powerups
Traps
What colours each one will be depend on visibility in the editor. I'll stick to precedents like monsters being red, although some things won't make sense - both lights and the player being green, for example will mean lights changing colour because the player should take precedent.
Make It Easier To Edit Doors!
#692 posted by hakkarin [81.15.54.176] on 2013/03/15 13:39:05
You really have to make it so that you can easily edit the angle of which doors open. Having to always manually set the angle by typing a number is really annoying and makes the whole process much more time consuming and annoying then it has to be.
In fact, having to manually type in all the values in the first place is annoying. Create some buttons for christs sakes!
#693 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/15 13:52:23
So you're shift-clicking on the little spin buttons next to the rotation field? Does Shift+click work for buttons next to the offset fields?
shift-clicking on the little spin buttons works fine. i'm referring to the keyboard shortcuts section:
Texture Rotation
For rotating textures, the PageUp and PageDown keys rotate the texture clockwise and counter-clockwise at 15° intervals. As with the spinner controls detailed previously, the Shift modifier key increases the rotation interval to 90° and the Ctrl modifier key decreases the rotation interval to 1°.
the ctrl modifier works, but the shift one doesn't.
Regarding the focus issues: The 3D view has a focus rectangle drawn around it, and if you focus any other controls, you have to return focus to the 3D view by clicking on it once. Is the focus rectangle visible on your system? I have noticed that it is sometimes hard to see on Windows.
yep, can see it ok. i'm assuming it should work thusly:
1. click on the side-panel, viewport border disappears;
2: click back on the viewport once, border reappears;
3: click in the viewport again, object is selected.
..however in most cases, the border only reappears at step 3. and in maybe about 25% of cases, step 2 is skipped. it's a bit temperamental.
i think avoiding step 2 altogether would be the best solution, minimising clicking. the border could pop up whenever the mouse hovers over the window and let you select anything with one click. no idea whether that's possible with the GUI library though?
I Just Created A Site To Review Quake Maps!
#694 posted by hakkarin [81.15.54.176] on 2013/03/15 14:25:43
I just created a website for the purpose of reviewing Quake maps called QuakeBlast.
http://quakeblast.webs.com/
If anyone is interested then they can send me the maps that they create with SleepWalkR's new editor :)
Ijed
#695 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 14:33:33
Please make sure to use red sparsely because it's hard to differentiate selected entities from unselected entities that have the color red.
Rj
#696 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 14:36:07
Texture rotation: Okay, got it - will fix in 1.0.5.
Focus: Looks like it's a big buggy. I'll look into it. I won't change it though as otherwise, you will inadvertedly select / deselect stuff a lot.
Hakkarin
#697 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 14:39:09
Better support for entity editing incl. a smart entity editor for angles is planned for 1.2.
Cool site, I hope there will be many maps to review soon.
#698 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/15 15:20:42
That's what it does right now?
Haha ... OK, I just experimented with it and it DOES do it. However, the focus border doesn't redraw on that first click so you don't know it worked. It looks like it didn't. On your second click, the border appears.
So it IS working but there's a redraw issue.
#699 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/15 15:21:02
Windows 7, Geforce 670, for reference.
#700 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/15 15:24:50
Understanble, SleepwalkR. I know you mentioned earlier that there is more to "it" than just a .def file. So, I'll leave it be for now. Quake should be the focus, for now.
lastly, a question: is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the entity/face/view tabs?
I don't think so, but, on Windows when I pressed SHIFT+RIGHT_ARROW, it switched over to those tabs and switch through those tabs each time I pressed SHIFT+RIGHT_ARROW.
I just created a website for the purpose of reviewing Quake maps called QuakeBlast.
We have lvlworld.com for that. They've been around for over 10+ years. I doubt you want to try and compete with that? Even if you did, you would want quakeblast.com as your domain name, not quakeblast.webs.com.
Willem
#701 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 15:25:36
RJ mentioned the same problem, and I have created bug for it. Thanks!
Deqer
#702 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 15:28:49
The shortcuts you are using for the tabs are coincidental. I will add commands to directly switch to and activate the tabs (and also one to switch back to the 3D view from wherever you are) which you can assign shortcuts to yourself in 1.1.
If I'm not mistaken, lvlworld is exclusively for Quake 3, no? Also, competition is good for business, so the more, the merrier!
Deqer
#703 posted by hakkarin [81.15.54.176] on 2013/03/15 15:32:54
I am not trying to compete with anyone. I just wanted a cute little site of my own where I review some Quake maps. It's a hobby, basically.
Hakkarin
#704 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 15:38:26
Did you have a look at some of the more recent Quake releases over at http://www.quaddicted.com? Maybe you could pick a few and write reviews for them so as to get some initial content going.
You Know
#705 posted by RickyT23 [86.149.175.67] on 2013/03/15 15:45:18
There's Tronyn Reviews @ quaddicted.com at the moment, for Quake 1, though he doesn't review every single map AFAIK (most though). But since Underworld Fan gave up the job about 5 years ago, there hasn't been a dedicated review site, only the reviews on Quaddicted (long live Spirit, Tronyn etc and thank goodness they were there the last five years) dot com.
So a new Quake review site isn't such a bad thing. I mean I take it that this site has sprung up amidst all of the buzz around Trenchbroom, but I hope it's not just for Trenchbroom maps.
There are a lot of mappers still mapping for Quake (the flow of Quake 1 maps never stopped completely, though it did slow some), and with BSP2 now accessible there is scope for some of the biggest and baddest maps to date. I personally think that Quake has yet to peak. There's something inherantly attractive about one person being able to develop a whole map or episode for a true 3D game like Quake. Because Quake is fairly low res and simple, and doesn't require a degree in Lua to 'script' for, not to mention the voice actors and modellers etc etc, and because the ceiling for large maps has just been raised to four times the height it was before I really think that the best has still to come....
But no - two quastions:
1 - Is the site exclusive to Trenchbroom Maps
because the majority of Quake mappers have yet to adopt it (not saying they wont, but it's abig transition))(I'm guessing not)
2 - Who will review the maps?
Will there be a community scoring system?
Will there be one person who reviews the maps (this has positives and negatives - positives being that 1 persons POV is a solid thing (i.e. the Tronyn benchmark - "I usually like the same maps he likes, so this one must be good"), negatives being an individuals bias potential)
3 - I like Deqer now, Deqer sorry for swearing at you and being a bit mean, I felt bad once I read your subsequent messages and realised you were sincere in your messages and your enthusiasm for Quake/dev.
Heh
#706 posted by RickyT23 [86.149.175.67] on 2013/03/15 15:50:31
It will actually be cool if hakkarin reviews new maps without knowing about an authors previous maps.
Like a lot of us will know that some mappers work is going to always be awesome, and expect nothing less, but someone who hasn't played all of them and doesn't know all of the various mappers and their work will have no preconceptions based upon the name. That would be cool.
This should probably get moved to another thread.
hakkarin - please create a news post in the News section, it will go out over RSS for starters, and it will stop us from having the rest of this discussion on the Trenchbroom thread :) I feel it could be a lengthy one.
Scoring And Stuffs
#707 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 15:52:20
I am personally not a fan of scoring at all. I prefer in-depth textual reviews such as the ones on TeamShambler or The Ramshackle. I realize those sites had ratings, but personally I don't think it's necessary.
The problem with ratings is that they don't serve much of a purpose (unless you're running Quaddicted and want to be able to sort the maps by them) and they instantly spark debate. I would much rather read a detailed analysis for certain aspects of a map (item placement, architecture and so on) than get a short description of the map and rating.
Ricky, a community scoring system makes sense on Quaddicted, but not so much on a review site IMHO.
That said, I say let hakkarin figure it out by himself. He hasn't written a single review yet and we're already meddling with it ;-)
#708 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.147] on 2013/03/15 16:22:14
The thing with long and wordy reviews is that in my opinion they only really entertain the writer and the map author. I play a map or I don't. Reading a long review does not affect me in that decision.
Great to see a new face/nick, welcome hakkarin!
About The Review Site
#709 posted by hakkarin [81.15.54.176] on 2013/03/15 16:22:45
I did as you guys suggested and posted about the new site in the news, though the post hasn't be approved yet. And no, there is no rule that demands that maps must be made with TrenchBroom in order to be reviewed. And yes I will have scores on the site because who doesn't love em? There will still actual written reviews as well though, because having only numbers as scores would be very boring :)
#710 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.147] on 2013/03/15 16:23:02
Oh and if I could turn back time, Quaddicted would use a much reduced scale for ratings, 1 to 3 as in "no", "try", "play it".
Maybe I Mean Something Different
#711 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/15 16:30:44
Personally I am more interested in in-depth analysis of someone with a deep understanding of level design / game flow / etc. than I am in reading a short review. I don't need scores to tell me to play or not to play a map - come on, it's not like we get bombarded with new maps and have to choose, right?
#712 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/15 16:37:54
The trouble that I've seen with wordy review sites is that they tend to start treading the same ground and start using the same phrases over and over. Which is understandable given the subject matter but it is witheringly difficult to give a fresh and in-depth critique to each and every map. Maybe if there was a team of writers or something who could switch off map reviews...
Reviews
#713 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/15 16:44:00
I always enjoy reading well-written reviews, having another person deconstruct your work is always a great way to learn and improve. I don't mind rating systems as long as it's a good representation of the opinion of the reviewer and not some pseudo-scientific calculation (1-5 star reviews are good, like the old CVG reviews)
Avoid Red: Will Do
#714 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/15 19:19:14
What Colour Type Is It?
#715 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/15 22:48:42
And what Palette?
Finding it difficult to assign different ones to the various groupings.
#716 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/15 22:51:05
Not sure what exactly you're asking, but maybe these links will help:
Quake palette: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
The color codes for Quake palette: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
Aha
#717 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/15 23:00:54
Got it.
Fgd uses rgb 0-255 while Def uses 0-1.
So all the worldcraft values are invalid - any number at all clamps to 100%.
Fixing.
Ok, Done:
#718 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/15 23:37:50
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqnm02pt...
This uses the 0-1 colour scale.
However, in order to read future fgd's out of the box, without having to convert by hand, you might want to consider reading their native 0-255 rgb format.
In regard to how I grouped things, I tried to make it forwards compatible with any new entities a modder might require:
Logic - white
Dangerous Stuff - Orange
Atmosphere, lighting - Yellow
Misc - Turquoise
Pathing - Purple
Collectables - Blue
Ammo - Dark Purple
Players / Camera - Green
The sub groupings of stuff have slight variations within those broad colours.
I'll do the Quoth one if you decide to keep the 0-1 colour format, along with some cleanup to make them easier to read.
Deqer
#719 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/15 23:38:44
Thanks, I've been looking for a colour key for ages since a link I had to an image was lost when a site closed.
That .txt colour readout is going to be very useful.
Ijed
#720 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.168] on 2013/03/15 23:42:20
I would actually prefer the. In the native values. I can fix that very quickly.
Yeah
#721 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/03/15 23:45:09
I thought so. It took me longer to figure out why it was displaying weirdly, and even then not long either so no problem.
Website Is Ready
#722 posted by hakkarin [157.157.157.136] on 2013/03/16 09:45:20
The website is now more or less ready and I included a link on it to TrenchBroom's own homepage.
Z-buffer Problem
#723 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/17 03:54:18
ok, so last night I changed a value in LinuxCapabilities to force 24bit z-buffer on my laptop and the z-buffer started to work normally.
I was knackered from a long cycle trip, so that's all I did, but next time I get a chance, I'll have a better look at that file and see if I can figure out if I can fix it so that it works without forced value setting. If not, at least I have a build that I can probably use now :)
Than
#724 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.57.87] on 2013/03/17 08:17:42
Yup, that's what I suspected. Thanks!
TrenchBroom 1.0.5
#725 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.109.161] on 2013/03/17 21:23:09
- Fixed a crash when undoing edge and face move operations.
- Improved map loading speed.
- Improved accuracy of vertex computation.
- Added antialiasing for grid lines (rebb).
- Thin out grid lines after a certain distance (rebb).
- Draw thinner grid lines for small grid sizes.
- Added face shading depending on view direction (rebb).
- Fixed a performance problem when editing face attributes.
- Place initial brush in new maps and make the camera look at it.
- Position pasted objects so that they line up with objects under the mouse cursor.
- Added option to use Alt+MMB to move the camera forward and backward.
- Fixed parsing of color values in FGD files.
- Improved Quake.fgd and Quoth2.fgd.
- Updated and fixed some errors in the documentation.
#726 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/17 22:30:47
Cool, you updated your website too with the latest version. You compiled the binaries for me! Yay!
Alt + Mmb Doesn't Work
#727 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/17 22:33:53
on my machine. I have microsoft sidewinder mouse.
Also was there something wrong with the brush creation / vertex manip on version 1 that the editor now picks up a couple of brushes in my map and deletes them because they're invalid?
Vertex manip seems better, like the shading, no longer have the map loading speed problems I had before, better grid etc.
It's definitely all-round better.
Fifth
#728 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.109.161] on 2013/03/17 22:36:57
You must activate Alt+MMB drag in the preferences. It is mainly targeted at Wacom Tablet users though.
Regarding the brushes, send me the map file please so that I can test it. The whole vertices vs. face planes issue is still not quite resolved in TrenchBroom, but I'm working towards it so that these things can happen. That said, maybe I fucked something up, so make sure to open a bug and paste the file there.
It Still Doesnt Work
#729 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/17 22:53:17
even though I checked the box in preferences, I even updated my mouse drivers.
I'll send you a private link to the map file, it's not quite finished yet (still a ways to go!).
I Have..
#730 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/17 23:02:17
emailed you the map file. I'll make a new bug on bithub.
#731 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/18 10:43:59
What would be killer would be if ALT+MMB would fly towards whatever the mouse is pointing at instead of just the camera facing direction. That would be really useful.
You Mean Like
#732 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/18 11:12:18
Alt + C?
#733 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/18 11:26:58
What? No.
Have it work just like ALT+MMB does now except instead of moving towards the camera direction it moves towards where my mouse pointer is pointing.
That Would Be A Different Thing
#734 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/18 11:29:28
The Alt+MMB option is targeted at Wacom users. As I understand it, they don't have a mouse wheel. Maybe what you are suggesting would be useful for the flythrough mode. I'll add it to the issue tracker, maybe there's some way to incorporate it.
#735 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/18 11:39:49
It's just something that most of my 3D apps have. It lets you navigate your model very quickly. You just point at what you want to get closer to and zoom. It's a lot faster than trying to aim the camera first.
Just a suggestion!
Yeah, It Sounds Interesting
#736 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/18 11:42:18
But I'd rather have it work independently of the Alt+MMB thing, as that is merely a replacement for using the mouse wheel to zoom.
Maybe something like Shift+Mousewheel / Shift+Alt+MMB.
Although
#737 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/18 11:42:50
What exactly does it do? Does it just move the camera position or does it also point the camera to where the mouse points, effectively rotating it?
#738 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/18 12:39:44
Here's a quick video of me doing it in Modo:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/161473/Mi...
The way it works in Modo is:
MouseWheel - Zoom along camera angle
Zoom - Zooms towards the mouse cursor
#739 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/18 12:53:09
Actually, never mind my video. This is a WAY better explanation of it, using Blender:
http://cgcookie.com/blender/2010/0...
This is a very tablet friendly option, BTW, as there's less navigation to do. You get where you're going in one zoom as opposed to a camera turn and THEN a zoom.
Alright
#740 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/03/18 13:08:41
So it just moves the camera and doesn't rotate it. You're saying it's tablet friendly, so maybe it should be the default for Alt+MMB after all.
Than?
#741 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/18 13:17:18
Tablet wise, I think Modo has a well thought out navigation scheme.
Rotate - ALT+LEFT_DRAG
Pan - SHIFT+ALT+LEFT_DRAG
Zoom (to mouse) - CTRL+ALT+LEFT_DRAG
It all hinges on the ALT+LEFT_DRAG with some modifiers thrown in.
Not saying you should do this but it's more to point out how I can totally navigate with a tablet by simplying pressing and dragging the stylus. I don't have to use the pen buttons at all.
#742 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/18 13:22:38
And to be clear, I'm not too fussed about TrenchBroom being tablet friendly I was just riffing on what you had said earlier.
I'd never considered using my Cintiq to map for Quake ... hmm ...
Than Asked For It
#743 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.103.128] on 2013/03/18 14:12:59
So I guess a preference option to toggle zoom mode would be good.
Alt Mmb
#744 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/18 17:17:21
I wanted a non-mousewheel way of zooming, since I don't use a mouse at all. I had some wrist strain a few years back and since then just switched to a tablet for almost everything. I also have a Thinkpad laptop which has the nipple pointer and no mousewheel, though I will plug in my wacom if TrenchBroom becomes a bit more stable on Linux (lots of crashing with the clipper and vertex manipulation on my lappy :( )
I'm rather used to Maya 3d navigation, which is similar to Modo I think. I think that is the 3d software standard, pretty much - it's only Blender that has a totally different navigation scheme :)
Worldcraft actually has extremely good and well thought out controls. It separates everything into modes (brush creation mode, entity mode, zoom mode, camera mode, texture application, clipper, vertex/edge edit), but has great controls for each mode and you can hold space to enable camera mode at any time (each mode also has shortcuts). I'm not suggesting you copy it though.
Worldcraft
#745 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.57.137] on 2013/03/18 19:46:17
has by far the worst controls IMO. The moded interface is a productivity killer, at least it was for me. My mapping got twice as fast when I switched to Radiant just because I didn't have to switch modes to do anything anymore. </rant>
But about those linux crashes - that is really odd because it shouldn't crash in vertex editing or anything. These things are exactly the same on every platform. Menu crashes I can understand, but the other stuff? Hmm. Spirit also hasn't reported any unstability with the regular editing functions.
Maybe I will have to set up a Mint Linux to try it out.
#746 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/18 22:02:49
"crash in vertex editing" in linux? Not sure if that's similar to the issue I experienced with my crappy video card, that I resolved by going into trenchbroom preferences and turning "OpenGL Instancing" to "Forced Off" fixed that crash.
Well, Bugger Me
#747 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.57.137] on 2013/03/18 23:26:21
Than, did you try that? What exactly crashes the editor for you? Because I think the clip tool also uses instancing.
Poor Choice Of Words
#748 posted by RickyT23 [2.216.134.150] on 2013/03/18 23:50:06
XD
Instancing
#749 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/03/19 00:17:27
is set to forced off in the menus. Without it turned off, vertex editing crashes instantly.
The console prints this info at startup:
Renderer info: Mesa DRI Intel(R) 965GM x86/MMX/SSE2 version 2.1 Mesa 9.0.2 from Intel Open Source Technology Center
Depth buffer bits: 24
Multisampling disabled
OpenGL instancing disabled
I just tried again and this time there was no crash, but after clipping I couldn't seem to creat a brush. I could go into vertex edit mode though
#750 posted by Spiney [91.177.69.6] on 2013/03/19 00:32:26
*obligatory snide comment about Intel's integrated graphics*
#751 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/19 00:43:59
Yah, same here. Intel HD Graphics 3000 video card.
SleepwalkR knows they are shitty. :)
#752 posted by Spiney [91.177.69.6] on 2013/03/19 01:04:04
The new ones aren't as bad though.
#753 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/19 01:55:41
It made me bring out my old tower and send it in for repairs, because that's my gaming tower. it's from August-2011, but power button suddenly stopped working aroung August-2012, and I just let the tower sit there for months.
But, I want to try trenchbroom without issues, so, TB is what pushed me to pull this tower out and send it in for repairs. It has decent gaming video card in it.
I'm on my laptop, in the meantime. Which has been fun, because I've gotten a nice feel of remote computing now, and bring my laptop to my couch, or to my stand-up desk. Nice to be able to simply move it where ever I want, including my patio outside.
Dq Who Cares?
#754 posted by mfx [92.225.224.202] on 2013/03/19 02:30:34
#755 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/19 04:47:41
mfx, I don't care that you don't care. Who cares that you don't care?
Har
#756 posted by ijed [186.37.203.91] on 2013/03/19 12:24:28
Whoever is more on topic wins.
#757 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/19 13:33:25
mfx - You misspelled "Cool story, bro".
#758 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/19 16:43:00
mfx, and Willem are on my shitlist now. grats, guys. One less person to respond/comment to anything you have to say, or any screenshots you post, or whatever. Less work for me. :)
"Who cares?"
Well, since the story was about TrenchBroom, then I think SleepwalkR would find it a nice bit to hear that his editor pushed me to fix my tower to try his editor. Maybe.
You sound like a bunch of jealous girls that have no such stories to share. Not my problem, that's your problem. Bye. :)
#759 posted by Willem [199.255.40.36] on 2013/03/19 17:16:58
You're just barely holding this new persona together dude. Best of luck.
It's Like Before
#760 posted by scorb [86.111.144.194] on 2013/03/19 17:26:32
But this time he's shitting up the whole forum instead of just this thread! :D
#761 posted by Text_Fish [94.169.119.204] on 2013/03/19 19:13:22
What was once one slightly boring post in a previously interesting thread is now eight very boring posts. Actually, now it's nine because of me.
I like TrenchBroom because it's cool.
#762 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/03/19 20:05:26
Nope. Just you, Willem, and mfx. Everyone else is fine. But, you two, yes, you two have already had your 5 strikes. Yes, 5 strikes, not 3 strikes. I gave you 5, and you've used them up already, here and in other threads. 5 strikes; that's how much patience I gave.
Good day.
Deqer
#763 posted by Vondur [80.87.145.18] on 2013/03/19 20:50:28
1. please read this carefully:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super...
2. calm down already.
3. stop posting irrelevant bollox in this sacred thread.
#764 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/03/20 00:02:43
Nope. Just you, Willem, and mfx. Everyone else is fine. But, you two, yes, you two have already had your 5 strikes. Yes, 5 strikes, not 3 strikes. I gave you 5, and you've used them up already, here and in other threads. 5 strikes; that's how much patience I gave.
http://cdn.crushable.com/files/201...
#765 posted by [195.39.235.27] on 2013/03/21 16:40:56
Could find func_detail in trenchbroom...
func_detail seems to be not included.
Has someone a working Quake.fgd with func_detail support for trenchbroom?
#766 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/03/21 17:49:32
The included .fgd has func_detail, but it is commented out since only Tyrann's compilers support it. Just search your .fgd for 'func_detail', and removed the // from the beginning of that line (func_group is defined and commented out too).
#767 posted by rebb [91.35.92.224] on 2013/03/21 18:11:45
The included .fgd has func_detail, but it is commented out since only Tyrann's compilers support it.
Not exactly
Sorry
#768 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/03/21 18:31:49
I meant, only 'fancy new compilers made by incredibly talented young men' support it
Less Than Three
#769 posted by rebb [91.35.92.224] on 2013/03/21 19:02:42
Why is there no heart icon :(
#770 posted by [91.62.19.117] on 2013/03/21 19:55:55
mmh - the result is not that what i expected.
uncommented the func_detail, made a boxed "testchamper", placed some irregular/complex brushes in it and compiled with tyrann's tools = still got a messed up (highly splitt/weirdly triangled) bsp (r_showtris 1)
Vis may have been faster..
Maybe i'm betting on the wrong horse. :-)
How do i prevent irregular brushes to splitt the bsp then? i thought func_detail would be the right way.
Func_wall 'em? enlight me.
#771 posted by negke [31.18.175.98] on 2013/03/21 20:01:40
In Quake, detail brushes only speed up the vis process. Apart from that, they are treated like normal world geometry. If you want to avoid splitting, you'll have to make it a func_wall.
#772 posted by Stahlkralle [91.62.19.117] on 2013/03/21 20:07:27
Thanx.
Seems that my hl and q3 based memory tricked me.
i stopped mapping for ages, restarted with trenchbroom 'caused it feels nice to work with.
Great job btw. Love it.
#773 posted by Spiney [81.241.129.184] on 2013/03/21 21:06:29
I'm noobish and ignorant, but is there any reason to not simply use func wall for details like that?
#774 posted by onetruepurple [91.240.47.30] on 2013/03/21 21:07:29
func_wall can't cast shadows, for one.
Spiney
#775 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/03/22 02:25:29
func_walls are entities and come with several issues. like OTP said, no shadows. Also, stock engines have limitations on edicts and models present in a bsp, so using lots of them (or in a larger map) can lead to needing to perform balancing acts if you want to stay under those limits.
func_details are not actually entities, despite being used like them in an editor. They are world geometry, and cut the world geometry as normal, but are not considered while calculating the PVS.
Func_wall Shadows
#776 posted by Tyrann [130.220.71.24] on 2013/03/22 02:49:16
Grab the latest utils snapshot here for func_wall shadow support. Check the light.txt file for details.
Btw
#777 posted by Tyrann [130.220.71.24] on 2013/03/22 02:51:53
This supports shadows for any brush entity, not just func_wall.
Wait
#778 posted by Kinn [81.156.206.151] on 2013/03/22 03:03:12
whoa o_O
That's Pretty Cool
#779 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.106.86] on 2013/03/22 06:59:33
New Key Question
#780 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2013/03/22 09:17:45
Having the _shadow and _selfshadow keys to make the features opt-in makes a lot of sense - because the compiler can't tell if the entity class is meant to be static, to slide or to rotate (well, it might have some hints about rotation but still). But how would people feel about fgd/def files which add the keys by default - for example to add "_shadow 1" to newly created func_wall, and "_selfshadow 1" to func_train?
#781 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/03/22 11:57:17
Do it. Other compilers will just ignore it but you will probably want it on more often than not.
Agree
#782 posted by ijed [186.37.203.156] on 2013/03/26 01:17:12
Those at intermediate level will know how to disable it.
Last thing about func_wall - they only draw if vis believes the player can see them, so if they stretch through several leafs then they will go invisible in stock engines, depending on where you're stood.
Before
#783 posted by ijed [186.37.203.156] on 2013/03/26 01:27:54
tyrann's guns blazing tools comeback, this was how we resolved vistimes in rmq.
No No And NNOO!!
#784 posted by Credits [188.226.32.75] on 2013/03/26 11:07:16
Quake Posted by ID SOFTWARE
Error.
#785 posted by 2012 November [188.226.32.75] on 2013/03/26 11:08:37
The Player Models Levels Editor Not Responing... 52000 Years Louth
Go Home Vondur, You're Drunk
#786 posted by Spirit [80.171.40.151] on 2013/03/26 11:09:29
Looks like a bot, better spam block it.
One Of These Days
#787 posted by gb [46.142.32.89] on 2013/03/26 22:50:46
I'll use detail brushes to relight RMQ demo 2. And then everything that should cast shadows will cast shadows. Had to resort to func_walls at the last minute to make vis time go from quad-core-melting to fast enough for the deadline. :-( It still bugs me because I know what it used to look like.
New Mouse
#788 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/27 17:26:35
I bought a new Microsoft Arc Mouse as my Sidewinder one had died after 5 years loyal service. The editor is practically unusable with this mouse, infact the mouse is practically unusable with anything, the scroll wheel control doesn't work properly with it (infinite scrolling nightmares!). Hand hurt after 30 minutes usage too, never buy one!
#789 posted by necros [142.245.193.10] on 2013/03/27 17:59:18
the logitech mx510/518s are really great mice. good shape and size, fits in your hand. they've been around for ages now.
#790 posted by Willem [199.255.42.120] on 2013/03/27 18:20:31
necros speaks truth. My back/shoulder/arm are ... to put it mildly, fucked up ... and those mice are still a joy to use. Good hand fit, lightweight, responsive.
Logitech Mice
#791 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/27 18:31:39
I have seen a lot of love for logitech mice but every time I have bought one it breaks or goes a bit crazy after only a few months. I tried a few at the computer store and I think I'm going to grab either a Razor Abyssus Mirror, CM Storm Recon, or Razer Deathadder... I put my hand on those and they're more like my old sidewinder. I think maybe my hand is so used to a big mouse that I can't go to a small sleek one (I wanted the arc for portability for when I grab a Surface Pro)
#792 posted by necros [142.245.193.9] on 2013/03/27 18:38:54
that's odd. I have two mx510s, and only got the second because the first one had all the paint worn off-- it still works perfectly.
maybe you just had bad luck?
#793 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/27 18:50:57
No doubt it's bad luck but it's now become a bit of a superstition for me to avoid logitech mice (though I checked the website for the store and they don't have either of those models in anyway :P). I like the build quality of MS mice in general so me buying any other brand is a big deviation really. Anyway, cheers for the advice :P
#794 posted by Spirit [80.187.96.146] on 2013/03/27 19:13:28
Logitech gives great guarantee and generous customer service. at least in Germany. I love their mice, best available.
My Last 3 Logitec Mice Lasted Little Over A Year.
#795 posted by Spiney [81.241.139.66] on 2013/03/27 19:56:06
And they'll be my last.
Planned obsolescence is rampant in peripherals.
I also quit buying anything Sony, Phillips and Apple since those are terrible in that regard. The nerve some of these companies have in selling overpriced garbage... wish everyone would quit buying from such brands that so they could shove their fecal business models down their buttholes.
I bought a Razer Abyssus now, hopefully that one will last a bit longer.
#796 posted by Willem [199.255.42.120] on 2013/03/27 21:27:00
Every Logitech mouse I've owned has been a tank that will not quit. Not sure what you guys are doing wrong. :P
#797 posted by Spiney [81.241.139.66] on 2013/03/27 21:47:09
They used to be good for me. Maybe it's because I don't buy the 80+ bucks ones. *shrug*
Hell, I Don't Even Know Which Model It Is...
#798 posted by the silent [95.238.125.208] on 2013/03/27 22:05:42
...but this little logitech I'm handling(no fancy stuff, a very basic one) is with me at least since 2005...
#799 posted by Spirit [80.171.83.34] on 2013/03/27 22:25:57
mx500 for ~5 years, didn't break, just got disgusting over time. now a 518 for 3 years with no problems.
Wireless Performance MX
#800 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.55.130] on 2013/03/27 23:20:39
First wireless mouse I have bought, and it's very nice. Eats up the batteries, but I have eneloops and a smart charger, so I don't care.
Logitech...
#801 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/28 14:53:35
so I tried out the mice above in the store and then I caught a glimpse of a G400 logitech mouse in another part of the store, played with it for a bit and decided to buy it despite my poor experiences in the past (which were admittedly a long time ago).
#802 posted by Rick [75.65.159.61] on 2013/03/28 16:04:53
I bought a Logitech M100 a couple of years ago, it works so well I got a second one last month for my other computer - $10 at Walmart :)
Shift+click To Use Textures
#803 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/28 16:47:18
I don't know if this was an intended change but I liked in the previous versions that I could shift+click a surface to copy the texture and then make a brush with it. For some reason this no longer works!
Entity Arguments
#804 posted by LostForgottenRanger [99.30.235.113] on 2013/03/28 17:05:09
Okay, so in Quark if I made something like a trigger_push under the entity tab Quark would already have things like direction and force put in so you just had to add in the numbers/names you wanted there. Is it possible to have that added to Trench Broom? I think it's very helpful for first time and casual mappers who don't know or can't always remember the arguments for these things.
Entity Arguments
#805 posted by LostForgottenRanger [99.30.235.113] on 2013/03/28 17:05:45
Okay, so in Quark if I made something like a trigger_push under the entity tab Quark would already have things like direction and force put in so you just had to add in the numbers/names you wanted there. Is it possible to have that added to Trench Broom? I think it's very helpful for first time and casual mappers who don't know or can't always remember the arguments for these things.
#806 posted by LostForgottenRanger [99.30.235.113] on 2013/03/28 17:06:36
fuck
Ranger
#807 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.57] on 2013/03/28 17:44:36
It's not possible right now, but it's on my todo list.
FifthElephant
#808 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.57] on 2013/03/28 17:47:08
Oops - it will be back in 1.0.6
Back-culled Vertex Edit
#809 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/28 18:41:04
Is it possible to make it so that when you vertex edit an object that the vertices on the back faces are not shown? The reason being that editing something like this is a terrifying nightmare!
http://s9.postimg.org/k0u8koezj/ve...
Hmm
#810 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.57] on 2013/03/28 19:09:24
Thing is, in many situations it's useful to see the back vertices too. I'll add this as a feature request.
No Doubt,
#811 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/28 19:19:57
but as you can see in instances where you are editing terrain/rock I think it's best that all the back faces are actually flush. I really believe this is why I was getting bsp holes and HOM problems, I'm trying not to touch the back faces this time.
Back Vertices
#812 posted by rj [82.9.177.217] on 2013/03/28 19:28:09
yeah i did think that when watching daz's video. it is useful to see them sometimes but i imagine some kind of toggle would be handy
SleepwalkR
#813 posted by gb [46.142.42.82] on 2013/03/28 20:32:13
would it be doable to add Blender-style Extrude and Loop Cut tools to a brush based map editor?
I was using Blender a lot recently and I thought, gosh, if I had this in a map editor... it would accelerate the workflow a lot.
#814 posted by Willem [199.255.42.120] on 2013/03/28 20:50:17
If somebody ever invents that fabled "take my model file and break it down into convex chunks automatically" routine I would live in Modo for Quake mapping. Would be spectacular...
#815 posted by gb [46.142.42.82] on 2013/03/28 20:59:12
that would be even better, yeah. Extrude and loop cut might be doable though, although any shape that resulted in an invalid brush would have to be split off at the new edge loop automatically...
Alternatively, one could make q3map2 spit out Quake 1 BSP files, so we could map in a modeling suite and just assemble the map from static meshes... just need a compiler that bakes static meshes into the BSP.
FifthElephant, Rj
#816 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.57] on 2013/03/28 21:50:43
As I said, I have opened a feature request for this.
Gb
#817 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.57] on 2013/03/28 21:50:58
I don't know what these features do. Can you show me?
#818 posted by Willem [199.255.42.120] on 2013/03/28 21:52:57
The trouble is both edge loops and extrudes are going to be problematic in TB since it optimizes the brush into planes after each operation. So you'll insert the loop and TB will optimize it away immediately afterwards. :P I think, anyway...
SW,
#819 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/03/28 22:20:17
Yeah I know, I was just theorising out loud as to why my terrain may have caused holes before. The way I have done the terrain still isn't perfect though.
#820 posted by gb [46.142.42.82] on 2013/03/29 01:34:58
Loop cut adds an edge loop, which creates new polygons. It is very useful to create subdivisions in a mesh where you want them, to give you new geometry to sculpt. Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4U...
Note how the cut is semi-intelligent - you move it around the mesh and it shows you where it *would* make the cut if you were to apply it now.
You can easily place a lot of new verts / faces into your mesh with this tool and then extrude the new faces etc.
Extrude basically duplicates a face and allows you to "pull it out" of the mesh, adding geometry to that area of the mesh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLS...
#821 posted by gb [46.142.35.179] on 2013/03/29 02:48:57
actually, extrude doesn't duplicate the extruded face - brainfart on my part. It creates new faces when the extruded face is pulled out.
Gb
#822 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.57] on 2013/03/29 07:13:21
Ok I'll not this for a later release.
"Brainfart On My Part"
#823 posted by the silent [95.238.125.208] on 2013/03/29 22:30:58
It's got a certain poetic, romantic flavour. Most exquisite rhyming couplet... (sips tea)
MSVCP100.dll
#824 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/03 07:39:06
I'm getting same problem as FifthElephant, on a different box.
This file is missing, and says to try re-installing the program--even though it was never installed to begin with; it was extracted from a zip.
I'm on windows7 x64.
I installed the vcredist_x64.exe, but I still get this error message.
using nvidia geforce gts450, latest drivers.
there is TrenchBroom.log file, but it was not updated with any information for today, probably because the program doesn't even have a chance to open up, because i immediately get this windows prompt window error message of this missing dll file.
Tb Is 32bit
#825 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.191.11] on 2013/04/03 08:04:48
So maybe you need to install a 32bit version of the redistributable?
Edgeloop /extrude
#826 posted by slap map [178.70.193.219] on 2013/04/03 13:04:21
edgeloop = clip tool
and since brushes are convex volumnes defined by planes, you wont ever have ability to freely create new edges like in polygonal modelling
extrude = clone+drag for planar faces
for non-planar its not that simple
and actually this could be doable new editor feature: draw new brush based on a selected face and normal
Split Edgeloop = Clip Tool That Keeps Both Halves
#827 posted by Spiney [81.241.162.177] on 2013/04/03 13:28:51
which could be a very feature useful to have.
eg. boxing out rooms and the using the clip tool to cut out the doors. Just do 3 quick splits and remove the unwanted brush. Do another split above the door for instant trim... Could allow for speedy mapping in combination with csg-hollow.
Implementation could be hitting shift+return instead of just return. Or something among those lines.
Decided To Re-read The Docs...
#828 posted by Spiney [81.241.162.177] on 2013/04/03 13:39:42
Okay, tab works like magic. Lol.
Think I'm gonna use that a lot.
/noob
Deqer
#829 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/03 14:27:07
I don't remember getting that error, mine has been working for a month. I do remember that I had to update my graphics card drivers to the latest version to solve the problem I had. (I was using a fresh out-the-box install of Windows 8)
Extrude
#830 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/04/03 15:01:36
Isn't this what you mean: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBr...
#831 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/03 15:37:06
Yeah, FifthElephant, it was one of the first 25 posts of this thread. Google remembers.
SleepwalkR, yah, vcredist_x86.exe works now.
Spiney, now I know you didn't watch my trenchbroom video on clip. :)
---
Extrude could be powerful, and therefore seems worth it for the programmer to make it. However, I disagree with edge loop.
EdgeLoop though seems like a feature for lazy people that couldn't just simply just press C and clip several times, therefore wouldn't be worth it to the programmer to make this.
Also, it's probably not often you'd use this feature anyways.
But since Clip already exists, then I suppose it would be somewhat easy for the programmer to take that and make an EdgeLooping function.
#832 posted by Willem [199.255.42.39] on 2013/04/03 16:34:52
Edgeloops don't split the brush - they add an edge loop. Don't call people lazy when you don't even understand what's being proposed.
I Still Don't Understand It Either
#833 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/04/03 17:39:54
What exactly is it? Is there a video somewhere?
#834 posted by Willem [199.255.42.39] on 2013/04/03 18:06:13
This covers the Max version pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r...
It's a standard modeling tool. I'm not saying it's something that TB needs but I took issue with it being called the same thing as a clip. It isn't. :)
#835 posted by slapmap [178.70.193.219] on 2013/04/03 19:13:29
In a world of quake bushes it is essentially a clip tool. The edges are planes intersections, you cant have overlapping planes of the same brush.
#836 posted by Willem [199.255.42.39] on 2013/04/03 19:16:19
This is why I said that it wouldn't work in TB as it's currently coded because the added edgeloop would be optimized away the frame after it was created. The only way edgeloops are useful is if TB will leave the brush alone until some point when the user "commits" the change.
It's probably more work than it's worth, to be honest.
But it's not a clip tool. :)
Edgeloop Only Works With Quads
#837 posted by Spiney [81.241.162.177] on 2013/04/03 19:49:08
And yes clipping is different, but it serves the same practical purpose.
Edge Turning
#838 posted by necros [142.245.59.16] on 2013/04/03 20:19:36
flipping edges would be interesting, but i'm not sure how that could be done in TB since each brush exists on it's own independently of it's neighbours.
What Is Edge Turning
#839 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.55.203] on 2013/04/03 20:28:46
You guys have to remember that I'm not familiar with any 3D modeling package ;-)
#840 posted by Willem [199.255.42.39] on 2013/04/03 20:49:19
Basically, if you have a quad broken into 2 triangles, edge turning turns the quad so the triangles from the other corners.
So
|/| becomes |\|
Useful for correcting shading and lighting errors on 3D stuff.
Thanks
#841 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.55.203] on 2013/04/03 21:09:38
Since TB merges coplanar faces automatically, it doesn't seem to be useful.
Sleepwalker
#842 posted by gb [46.142.10.181] on 2013/04/03 23:42:44
@ the extrude image: Yeah, that was about what I meant. Pull the new brush out along the face normal. Usually followed by moving the "new" vertices to where one wants them, then extruding again (typically used for quickly blocking out shapes, like for example curves).
Edge loop is clip:
Not quite. In terms of brushes, it would do much the same thing, but clip isn't as user friendly or intelligent.
If you can make the clip tool able to do multiple parallel clips in one go, and intelligently choose the clipping plane according to the position of the mouse cursor and keep all the new brushes after the clipping, and let you slide the clipping plane(s) along the brush with the mouse, then it might get close.
slapmap: Anything that speeds up the workflow is a good idea, IMO.
It's up to Sleepwalker if he considers any of this useful, of course.
Regarding edge turning, it would probably also give the mapper some control over which way the quads are split in the BSP process. For outlying terrain at least. Smooth triangle strips, all tris going the same direction, render faster, afaik. But then, inside a complex map, this wouldn't be enough to control the splitting, of course. Now if you had triangle terrain and you turned it into detail brushes, then you might be able to influence the splitting.
840 + 841
#843 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/04/04 00:36:03
Sorry, yes it's what Willem said, however, there is an application for it in TB.
You have 2 brushes with 2 adjacent 3 sided faces forming a 4 sided surface. The 2 3 sided faces are not coplanar.
You want to change the split between the two brushes while preserving the position of the vertices: http://necros.fov120.com/temp/tren...
Edge Turning
#844 posted by than [182.164.57.115] on 2013/04/04 02:05:49
I think this would be useful on a terrain mesh. Using it would flip the dividing edge between two triangular brushes, which allows you to smooth out surface geometry of a terrain without adding more tris, but simply by optimising the flow of the edges in the mesh.
http://openmesh.org/Documentation/...
I often do this manually when modifying terrain in Worldcraft. Terrain is about the only place I think I would use it though.
#845 posted by necros [99.227.223.212] on 2013/04/04 02:07:17
yeah, it's of somewhat limited use, but where it is useful (terrain), it's powerful.
so it's kind of a toss up really.
+1 Flip Edge
#846 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/04 02:26:48
I would definitely like edge flipping. I used in WC also, I can think of more applications than just terrain (though admittedly this is the primary function).
Someone Create A Feature Request ;-)
#847 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.55.203] on 2013/04/04 07:12:17
TB, the clip tool is already pretty smart at choosing a clip plane even if you have only one clip point. And you can split brushes with it, that is, keep both sides.
Clip Tool
#848 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/04 13:24:02
Is really good actually, I didn't even use 3 point clipping at first because I never really used it in WC but I'm getting into a good work flow now.
#849 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/04 16:00:41
Yep, clip tool is nice. Clip, clip, and you already have a 4-piece/piece of terrain. Duplicate, duplicate, etc. and you have land of terrain. Drag edge/vertices, and wallah!
FEATURE REQUEST:
For light entities, draw a faint lined circle around the entity in the 3d viewer. The circle is as big as the "light" setting of the light entity. If light = 300, then circle is that big. These circles can be turned on or off.
---
SIDE NOTE:
Double check that the entity panel has the stuff in it from the .fgd or .def file. You know, it shows the description and the available keys for you to use, for that particular entity you're creating.
I Have To Admit
#850 posted by RickyT23 [31.53.116.69] on 2013/04/04 16:07:24
That would be a nice feature. Even nicer feature - light simulation.
#851 posted by Spiney [81.241.162.177] on 2013/04/04 21:12:26
To add to deqer's idea, having the color/intensity of the light show in the center.
Good Idea,
#852 posted by mfx [78.55.3.156] on 2013/04/04 21:40:08
Light value visualized by circlesize or just the digit + color.
Only if selected..
And light simulation, what a candy that would be!
#853 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2013/04/05 01:43:57
'visualization spheres' or whatever are rarely that useful in all the editor's I've used them in. I think the devtime making these should be work toward a proper 'lighted preview mode', with the spheres used in the interm, and as the basis for doing the shading.
To do spheres right, you are going need to implement detecting all the different 'delay' and 'wait' settings. And spotlight cones. I feel if you're going to do all that, it should be on the road to shaded preview.
Scampie
#854 posted by mfx [78.55.3.156] on 2013/04/05 01:52:23
you´re probably right, since one cant tell surely the amount or value of light by the size of a sphere.
Shaded preview therefore seems the better approach, and the more elegant either.
Oh Man
#855 posted by Drew [199.180.99.254] on 2013/04/05 05:30:44
a good 'lighted preview' mode would be amazing.
#856 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/05 06:46:33
Not sure if it's possible, but maybe the programmer can use a pre-made script that already does live rendering of lighting when adding lights, similar to the editors used for Quake4/Doom3.
According to this page: http://icculus.org/gtkradiant/deve... the GTK Radiant 1.5 release was the editor used for those games.
It's open source, so, if it's the same as TrenchBroom, maybe you can grab the code from there?
Basically, soon as you add your first light, the entire map turns black, because now it's live rendering lights, and only light is shown on the walls from the lights in your map.
Anyways, definitely would be candy. Probably too much to ask for.
Mmm
#857 posted by Bal [92.103.231.26] on 2013/04/05 10:03:44
It seems like alot of work, but pre-baking the lightmaps to brush faces seems doable no? The source to Light.exe is available, I'm sure it's not so simple, but isn't it possible to adapt it to bake lightmaps to brush faces instead of a completed bsp?
Would be pretty nice, you could pre-bake your whole map (would be longer than light maybe, since no faces are culled at that point), and then maybe have options to only bake selected lights/brushes to update pieces you're working on...
But yeah, I'm sure it's not a simple feature to implement.
#858 posted by Spirit [80.171.85.40] on 2013/04/05 10:05:41
Iirc realtime lighting preview IS a far goal for TB.
It Will Probably
#859 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/04/05 10:40:00
be just an approximation of Quake's lighting model implemented as a shader. I don't think it's feasible to compute the lightmaps using light's code. But I will surely look at the code so that I can approximate it as closely as possible.
Light Compilers And TB
#860 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/05 11:18:29
I'm not sure it will accurately reflect whatever lighting compiler you use, I've noticed that the wait and delay keys attached to lights can produce quite different results depending on the compiler you use. It probably shouldn't but with people adding different features to compilers it is probably going to get more pronounced over time (and may render this feature into more of a vague guide than an accurate way to light a map).
Exactly.
#861 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/04/05 11:47:18
It's just an approximation.
#862 posted by slapmap [178.70.201.207] on 2013/04/05 15:02:22
"Light spheres" are in radiant and yeah, inaccurate and not that useful, except for showing the inner radius for square falloff.
Sidenote: oh my, so many radiants already, even improved D3 one!
#863 posted by negke [31.18.177.112] on 2013/04/05 19:43:22
Yes. I never found Radiant's Light Radii very useful. Quest had a nice lighting preview. Standard fall off only, but enough to get a basic overview. Of course, it was slow as hell since there was no hardware rendering. Perhaps a peak at the Quest source can give the programmer an idea of how to (or how not to?) approach this.
I See...
#864 posted by Spiney [91.177.105.165] on 2013/04/06 20:48:28
but being able to see light color/intensity would still be handy :)
Can't Load Quake 1 Map Sources
#865 posted by VoreGoddess [69.246.80.59] on 2013/04/07 17:30:34
Referring to post 685 from someone else, I still can't load the quake 1 map sources. I originally had 1.04, now I have the latest 1.05 and it gives me a generic error when I try to open the John Romero Quake map sources from planetquake.
TrenchBroom Won't Load ReadOnly Maps.
#866 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/07 17:43:26
It's because John Romero marked all the map files as "Read Only" before zipping them all up. Not sure why.
Right-click the map(s) and go to properties and uncheck "Read Only", and click Apply.
Next Version Will Work Fine
#867 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.188.154] on 2013/04/07 17:46:14
But right now, do as deqer says.
#868 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/07 21:50:34
FEATURE REQUEST:
I personally would like to have the textures CLIP, and TRIGGER be 50% transparent when displayed in 3D view on brushes.
I also would like the option to turn on 50% transparency for all textures that begin with "*" which are mostly water textures.
I'm strictly vanilla Quake; and in Vanilla, water was not transparent. Therefore, I think it should be an option in the Preferences, and the default be OFF.
---
I also, I really like that idea on your github about linking entities with the target/targetname, and targetname2, etc. stuff.
Deqer
#869 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.221] on 2013/04/07 22:24:33
You don't need to post here AND on the feature tracker. I see everything you post there, so I won't miss it ;-)
Regarding the feature request, that was already requested by rebb, and I have moved it up to the 1.2 release. Might even move it up to 1.1.
The target links feature is partly done, but needs to be integrated by me. Might move this up to 1.1 too.
Will It Work?
#870 posted by darkhog [87.207.97.75] on 2013/04/08 01:54:22
Will it work for Quake 2/Q3A? While I'm not 100% convinced about original quake modding, I'm all for modding second installment (superior story-wise and gameplay-wise to any Quake game, including Q4) or multiplayer entry for the series.
I'd like to know also if it would work for any open source games that uses quake engine (Tremoluos, etc.).
I've tried to learn Radiant editor and other "2D" ones, but they don't talk to me, this one does.
Other Game Support
#871 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.221] on 2013/04/08 06:56:27
Q2 and Q3 are on my todo list, but it will take a while. Support of other games that use idTech depends mostly on whether there is someone advocating it and helping out.
Other Game Support
#872 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/08 10:23:49
will mean I will probably never leave my house or computer ever again... This is not the best idea.
TrenchBroom 1.0.6
#873 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.221] on 2013/04/08 12:07:58
Changes
- New text rendering system (faster and fewer glitches)
- Brush drawing now more accurate (see docs)
- Option to use integer plane point coordinates
- Recompute vertices after every change to brush geometry
- Major lines of the grid are rendered thicker
- Read write protected map files
- Don't crash when trying to save a write protected file
- Internal Worldspawn properties set to read only
- Fix 3D view focus issues on Windows
- Drop invalid brushes in parser instead of crashing
- Always autosave (don't wait until the map is changed)
- Keep more autosaves and save only every 10 minutes
- Don't show rotation decorators for invisible entities
- Documentation updates and fixes
Download here: http://goo.gl/0eL9u
#874 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/08 16:07:26
1.0.6 is looking good so far, but, is anyone else having a problem with the Face browser not showing any textures? I loaded same map as before--which worked before--and I can't see any textures in Face panel. Says "n/a" for preview image too.
1.0.5 shows the textures in Face browser.
Deqer
#875 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.221] on 2013/04/08 16:35:44
Yeah I see the same thing. Odd that none of the testers saw that - or maybe it creeped in last minute. Will fix asap. Sorry.
TrenchBroom 1.0.7
#876 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.221] on 2013/04/08 16:45:53
Who let this amateur use a computer?
Get It Here
#877 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.221] on 2013/04/08 16:46:03
http://goo.gl/0eL9u
Nice.
#878 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/08 17:42:36
Very nice so far. The text is much clearer on my desktop box (with nVidia GTS450 card) in the textures browser, and the all text works on my laptop now(with Intel Graphics 3000), and very crisp/smooth/clear.
Thank You
#879 posted by VoreGoddess [69.246.80.59] on 2013/04/08 19:07:36
Thank you post 866 from Deqer, that was the problem and your solution fixed it.
Ver. 1.07 Bug
#880 posted by VoreGoddess [69.246.80.59] on 2013/04/08 19:10:31
Seems 1.05 will open Quake 1 Map sources but 1.07 won't?
VoreGoddess
#881 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.221] on 2013/04/08 19:19:08
It works for me, which file did you try?
Start.bsp
#882 posted by VoreGoddess [69.246.80.59] on 2013/04/08 19:24:18
Weird it opens the other maps but not start.map. I tried shutting down background processes to make sure it wasn't lingering around somewhere in an old editor.
Sometimes Maps Open With Camera Pointing Away From The Geometry.
#883 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/08 19:34:00
Focus on the 3D view, and hold ALT and Right-click drag your mouse to look around with the camera, and eventually you see the brushes show up.
I'm able to open start.map with 1.07.
VoreGoddess, what does the console say in TrenchBroom? Any errors? Does editor crash? You can ignore the gfx/start.wad error message.
I Should Check This Out Some Time...
#884 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/08 19:51:30
But I'm at the vinegar-strokes stage of this map now so I'll probably try it afterwards.
#885 posted by Willem [199.255.42.182] on 2013/04/08 20:33:07
"Sometimes Maps Open With Camera Pointing Away From The Geometry."
If that's the case, a common practice in other editors is to drop the camera at the info_playerstart position ...
I Changed It
#886 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.221] on 2013/04/08 20:42:03
so that the camera is outside the map, pointing at it, and zoomed out so far that the entire map is visible in the 3D view.
Rotate Tool
#887 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/10 19:50:48
seems to be acting weird in version 1.07... every time I try and hover over the grabby-thing (dunno what they're called) they disappear, and when I move my cursor away they reappear. It's like the editor is trolling me!
Grid Lines
#888 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/10 20:07:18
also I really dislike the "major grid lines" always showing, I find them really distracting plus it makes using smaller grids unusable IMO.
Fifth
#889 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.191.111] on 2013/04/10 20:38:53
Will look into it.
#890 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/10 21:03:49
Just want to say that for any feature that is requested to be removed, or hinted towards the idea of being removed, that I'd like to recommend that it not be completely removed, but rather add it as an option in Preferences that can be enabled/disabled.
I realize that this may sound like a redundant statement. But, I've never said it before, and just wanted to say it now. Now that I have, I'll never say it again.
I've not played with 1.07 yet, because been busy catching up certain things in life. But, I'm sure I will have a use for the 'major grid lines' feature, once I find time to start mapping again.
#891 posted by Willem [199.255.42.114] on 2013/04/10 21:55:25
Features are removed for a reason. Adding a checkbox just clutters up the code base. IMO...
Agreed
#892 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/10 22:00:42
however I think having really thick distracting grid lines that don't scale down with smaller grid sizes is a hindrance. Besides, I made a map perfectly fine without this feature, I can't think of an instance where I would have needed it.
Feature Request...
#893 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/10 22:03:17
Is it possible that when you make a brush entity and you decide to change it from one type to another that it retains all the values and keys if possible?
Fifth
#894 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.107.93] on 2013/04/10 22:26:52
Could you please post the feature requests and bugs to the issue tracker?
SW
#895 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/10 22:29:42
Sorry dude I keep forgetting (mostly because I haven't bookmarked it)... I'll try to remember in future. (I see you've already posted them there?)
Not The Last One.
#896 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.107.93] on 2013/04/10 23:29:26
#897 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/04/10 23:34:59
I'm just saying, don't remove a feature simply because 1 person cries about it; regardless that he/she was able to map without it.
I want the major gridlines, therefore leave the feature intact and put an option for it in the Preferences to disable it.
There's a reason this feature exists, and a reason it exists in other 3D programs as well. So, don't remove it just because 1 person cries about it.
Thanks.
#898 posted by Willem [199.255.42.114] on 2013/04/10 23:39:18
Sure, that's a different situation.
I Won't Remove It
#899 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.107.93] on 2013/04/10 23:40:25
I'll just make it so that it works better at small grid sizes.
Deqer
#900 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/10 23:44:47
I'm not crying about it, I gave valid reasons as to why I thought it wasn't necessary to have them. Can you stop being a prima donna? Thanks.
#901 posted by Willem [108.228.244.211] on 2013/04/11 01:44:12
Guys, please. Just let it go.
Mexican Soap Opera
#902 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/04/11 02:00:03
#903 posted by gb [46.142.32.174] on 2013/04/15 15:10:18
Does someone have a Linux x86 build they'd be willing to share?
#904 posted by Spirit [80.187.110.37] on 2013/04/15 18:17:41
I am on 64 bit but if it is easy to crosscompile I could do one for you.
Gb
#905 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.224.137] on 2013/04/15 23:09:42
You can try this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/...
It was built on Ubuntu 12.04 32bit. You can unpack it to /opt so that the executable is at /opt/TrenchBroom/TrenchBroom. You can then just copy the .desktop file to ~/.local/share/applications/
If you don't put it into /opt, you'll need to adapt the paths in the desktop file. Let me know if it works!
One More Thing
#906 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.224.137] on 2013/04/15 23:11:50
TB uses the ALT key for some things such as moving objects vertically. This collides with some window managers, and you might have to disable the ALT key for your window manager. I have rebound it to the windows key on my machine. See this for Ubuntu: http://askubuntu.com/questions/806...
#907 posted by gb [46.142.47.143] on 2013/04/16 04:56:18
Thanks, I will try this tomorrow.
By the way, I found the difference between Hexen 2 and Quake .map formats. It is downright trivial. The other things that would need doing are a Hexen 2 .ent file, which I could provide, and perhaps support for the H2 palette. The wad format seems to be the same. Hexen 2 .mdl is slightly different, but of course bounding boxes would do. I'm working on H2 related tools coding at the moment. I have AguirRe's light mostly working. The change is trivial as well. QBSP changes are only slightly more involved. Hexen 2 has more hulls.
The .map file change is indeed so trivial that any Quake 1 .map file can easily be converted to Hexen 2 format by just some search and replace.
I Know
#908 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.224.137] on 2013/04/16 07:08:54
But what does the extra face attribute mean? No one seems to know. Also, can you say what the differences in the mdl format are?
@SleepwalkR
#909 posted by Spike [86.181.50.218] on 2013/04/16 08:35:16
The qbsp code refers to it as 'Light'. It copies it around, but doesn't actually do anything with it. I assume they were going to use it for radiance but never actually did, So writing out a dummy value of -1 should be fine.
The mission pack uses a different mdl format, but the core game merely uses q1mdl with additional flags (stick to the 'data1' directory and avoid 'portals' and you should be fine)...
Re: Extra Face Attribute
#910 posted by szo [160.75.18.212] on 2013/04/16 08:39:48
But what does the extra face attribute mean? No one seems to know.
Look at the bsp5.h and map.h headers of hexen2 utils: it is Light. face_t struct has Light as its last member as a 32 bit integer. mbrush_t struct has Light as a 32 bit integer as its last member.
Thanks
#911 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/04/16 10:05:33
So it's unused?
@SleepwalkR
#912 posted by szo [160.75.18.212] on 2013/04/16 10:14:31
So it's unused?
Right, not used in the end. When the face structure is translated from map to compiled bsp, it is not used, because the dface_t structure (bspfile.h) is the same between q1 and h2. However, an h2 map must have that token in order to be parsed correctly and compiled.
Alright
#913 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/04/16 11:28:56
Thanks for clearing that up.
TrenchBroom 1.0.8
#914 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.224.137] on 2013/04/16 20:42:29
- Fix the rotation tool
- Allow snapping faces to the grid when resizing brushes
- Improved major grid line shading (rebb)
- Fixed umlauts in About dialog
Downloads: http://goo.gl/0eL9u
W00t...
#915 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/16 20:45:10
fixed rotation tool!
time to upgrade!
Tutorial Videos...
#916 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/16 20:47:35
May be coming soonish btw. Meeting up with my friend on Thursday to do a few test runs (and hopefully to properly film some stuff)...
Rotation Tool..
#917 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/16 21:17:42
is still acting a little weird, upon selecting entities the rotation tool seems to centre on the last brush that was selected rather than the entity itself. It's better than before of course, but not as good as the original implementation.
Open A Bug Please
#918 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.57.113] on 2013/04/16 21:33:07
Sure Thing...
#919 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/16 21:34:31
where's the feature request bit btw?
TrenchBroom 1.0.9
#920 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.57.113] on 2013/04/16 21:55:20
- Fix the rotation tool handle position
Download: http://goo.gl/0eL9u
Dude...
#921 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/16 22:02:29
You need to find a place to mirror this thing, 19kb/s download speed is a little too "nostalgic" for my tastes. ;)
Not A Problem Of This Server
#922 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.57.113] on 2013/04/16 22:45:07
Or it's a fluke, but most probably it's just a temporary thing.
SleepwalkR
#923 posted by gb [46.142.52.18] on 2013/04/17 15:40:38
The binary produces the following error on my Ubuntu 12.04 32 bit:
jonas@gjallarbru:/opt/TrenchBroom$ ./TrenchBroom
../src/unix/glx11.cpp(87): assert "xid" failed in SetCurrent(): window must be shown
(TrenchBroom:28246): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_window_resize: assertion `width > 0' failed
Segmentfejl
I have wxwindows 2.8.12. There is something about this error in the wxwidgets forum here:
http://forums.wxwidgets.org/viewto...
I'm almost curious enough to compile it myself now. :-s
#924 posted by gb [46.142.52.18] on 2013/04/17 15:41:32
wxwindows... wxwidgets of course.
#925 posted by gb [46.142.13.179] on 2013/04/17 18:32:39
I compiled my own debug binary of TB now. Same error.
Some thoughts:
Why does the Linux Build.txt instruct us to compile our own version of WxWidgets (twice)?
Also, and I found this interesting -- have you ever tried running Linux TB through Valgrind? The output is remarkable.
Gb
#926 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.117.89] on 2013/04/17 23:32:32
I have seen that error before, but mostly on virtual machines. It is related to a hidden window that I use to set up some shared resources for the renderer(s). What card / driver are you using?
TrenchBroom requires wxWidgets 2.9.4. 2.8 doesn't work. Since there's no official package repository yet for 2.9.4, you need to compile it yourself.
I haven't rund TB through Valgrind because I didn't want to drown in a sea of false positives. TB uses a custom allocator for many classes that speeds up memory allocation a lot, but this leads to false positives. I know from inspecting that TB doesn't have big memory leaks. In fact, I couldn't find a single leak in the current build.
That's Not To Say
#927 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.117.89] on 2013/04/17 23:34:22
that it doesn't have leaks. I'm sure it does - just no biggies as far as I can say. I'll run it through VG anyway.
Also, "the output is remarkable" - how you just tell me what you see instead of making me guess ;-)
How About
#928 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.117.89] on 2013/04/17 23:34:39
jesses
And Finally
#929 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.117.89] on 2013/04/17 23:45:06
Can you be more specific when you say "run through Valgrind"? Which tests did you run?
#930 posted by gb [46.142.13.179] on 2013/04/17 23:55:11
I just ran the standard test - mainly because I wanted to see if it came up with more info about the error message. I was a bit amazed at the sheer amount of output and the final error count it reported. If you say most of that is false positives, I'll take your word for it but it looked pretty crass.
The wxwidgets compile is pretty lengthy and, especially since we're instructed to do it twice, acts as a bit of a hurdle if someone just wants to try the editor. 2.8.12 is reported to be the official stable version so I wondered if using the dev version is strictly necessary. Apparently it is.
I use a Geforce 6 series card with Nvidia blob 304.64.
Hmm
#931 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.117.89] on 2013/04/18 00:56:43
What's the "standard test"? Valgrind typically reports lots and lots of problems. If it was a memory leak test, there will be many false positives, yeah. If it was a cache grind test, then it will moan a lot too because TB's codebase is not optimized for such things (it's just not necessary).
TB requires wxWidgets 2.9 because that has much better support for Mac OS X.
I'll see what I can do about the error message.
Hmm 2
#932 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.117.89] on 2013/04/18 01:16:15
The current build runs on my machine, which also has an NVidia card (it's a MacBook Pro). I'm also running Ubuntu 12.04 with the "version current" NVidia driver. How do I find out which version of the driver I am running?
Valgrind
#933 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.117.89] on 2013/04/18 01:17:27
How exactly did you run Valgrind? From Code::Blocks?
#934 posted by gb [46.142.13.179] on 2013/04/18 08:34:24
In the Nvidia control panel, accessible from the systems submenu (not sure what it is in English), you can find your driver version. I got mine from the Nvidia site, after something necessitated a driver upgrade, instead of it being the default-provided Ubuntu driver.
I simply ran valgrind ./TrenchBroom. So it would have been the memory check.
Granted, a lot of it probably is from wxwidgets or GTK, too.
Or From The Fact That It Crashes
#935 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.117.89] on 2013/04/18 09:26:17
#936 posted by gb [46.142.13.179] on 2013/04/18 10:13:53
It crashes with 4K errors?
The Crash
#937 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/04/18 11:41:58
has nothing to do with what Valgrind is reporting. I have looked at it, and most of the errors are within the libraries. It reports quite a bit of errors related to uninitialized variables, but these are usually due to how OpenGL works:
GLint textureId;
glGenTextures(&textureId, 1);
Valgrind will moan about this, but it's not actually in error. It's an easy fix to shut VG up, though:
GLint textureId = 0;
glGenTextures(&textureId, 1);
In any case - Valgrind won't help you finding the problem that you're seeing. That's not really a programming error but a flaw in how I set up the OpenGL context. I'll have to find a different way.
Valgrind
#938 posted by Spike [86.176.156.90] on 2013/04/18 15:28:56
LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1
should remove all false positives associated with opengl dma use.
which should actually make valgrind usable with such programs.
TB Tutorial Vids...
#939 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/18 18:33:01
just finished up recording the first in a series of TB tutorial videos (yes, you get to hear my basso gravelly northern english accent)... They're not properly finished yet (needs a bunch of tweaks etc) but suffice to say me and my friend had fun making them and definitely want to continue making them.
These are starting off at the lowest-entry point, intermediate and advanced mappers need not apply, literally the first vid is about installing quake, getting wads, downloading software etc and then working up to "my first room".
Cool
#940 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.235.196] on 2013/04/18 21:37:17
Looking forward to seeing them!
Where Are You 5th?
#941 posted by RickyT23 [2.124.172.55] on 2013/04/18 22:34:55
I'm in't Penrith.
Ahh
#942 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/18 22:42:45
I'm not as north as you are, I'll give you one clue though...
"garlic bread is the future, I've tasted it!"
Bolton Eh?
#943 posted by RickyT23 [2.124.172.55] on 2013/04/18 23:43:07
Garlic....... BREAD?!?!
!
#944 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/18 23:50:05
Yep... My next map is a caravan for me mam.
Gb
#945 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.110.143] on 2013/04/20 01:41:33
Can you try running TB from code blocks in the debugger? Strangely, it works for me that way on my VM.
#946 posted by gb [46.142.21.185] on 2013/04/20 11:40:39
I have no idea how to do that, I'm not familiar with Codeblocks at all (nor with other IDEs, I use vim).
Nevermind Then
#947 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.110.143] on 2013/04/20 13:50:17
Gb
#948 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.110.143] on 2013/04/20 17:58:49
Please update the sources and recompile, then run the editor (not from the IDE). It may fail on the first try, but it should work the second time. I have no idea why this is happening, but at least it now works on my VM and my MacBook Pro in Ubuntu 12.04.
SleepwalkR
#949 posted by gb [46.142.21.52] on 2013/04/20 20:48:26
I did that. After that suggestion, I got it running on the third try. I experimented with this some more, and it seems to be random if it runs or crashes. But when I try enough times, I can get it to run.
It seems to crash when I press "V". This can be reproduced; this is the message:
(TrenchBroom:16513): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_window_resize: assertion `width > 0' failed
TrenchBroom: /home/jonas/TrenchBroom/Source/Ren... bool TrenchBroom::Renderer::ShaderProgr... String&, const TrenchBroom::Math::Vec3f&): Assertion `checkActive()' failed.
Afbrudt (SIGABRT)
Under "View -> Grid" I can select all grid sizes with the mouse at the same time (so they are all shown as toggled on with a hook in front).
When I click on "Snap to Grid", the 1 unit grid is displayed no matter what grid size I have selected.
Is there a key combo to snap a brush to the currently selected grid size? Shift-Ctrl-G doesn't do it and I can find nothing else in the Preferences.
Movement with WASD is jerky, there is a delay between button press and reaction and sometimes a stuttering effect to it. Rotating the camera stutters also. It won't accept multiple button inputs (eg W and A) at the same time (does nothing in such a case). I've tried all the different OpenGL Instancing settings.
Those are my initial findings, I'll give it some more time.
#950 posted by gb [46.142.21.52] on 2013/04/20 21:36:20
I managed to enter vertex mode once, so that bug actually doesn't *always* happen.
Gb
#951 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.44] on 2013/04/20 21:40:13
The vertex mode crash is usually fixed by setting the Instancing mode to "Force off" in the preferences. If that doesn't work for you, I'll have to investigate some more. Could you paste the stack trace for the crash at pastebin or something? The lines get truncated.
Movement is not implemented like in game ATM - there is no "fly through" mode yet. Pressing "A" actually just invokes the menu item for "Move Camera Forward", that's why you can't press multiple keys at once.
There is no command to snap a brush to grid size, "Snap to grid" toggles grid snapping. Rotation should be smooth - are you running a release or a debug build?
Sleep
#952 posted by gb [46.142.21.52] on 2013/04/20 22:37:06
Awesome, setting instancing to "force off" seems to prevent the crash indeed. So far, so good.
I was running a debug build. I'll try a release build.
I intend to also try this under Windows, so that I can form an opinion with the various bugs out of the picture.
I see about the movement.
At least I see an editor now, thanks for bearing with me.
Also
#953 posted by gb [46.142.21.52] on 2013/04/20 23:04:25
Sorry I didn't notice that.
http://pastebin.com/4878suLa
Gb
#954 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.44] on 2013/04/21 01:23:58
The current build has serious problems with the menu on Linux. Menu items don't get disabled when they should (such as the Copy item when nothing is selected), leading to crashes when such menu items are invoked.
I'm trying to fix it, but I can't for the life of me find the cause. wxGTK behaves very differently from the other platforms. The current Windows version is much more stable.
Thanks
#955 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.44] on 2013/04/21 01:25:59
for the pastebin. Note that TB writes a log file at ~/TrenchBroom.log - could you try and find the lines it printed just before it crashed? I suspect that the problem comes from the driver not being able to compile a shader.
Fixed
#956 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.44] on 2013/04/21 02:15:02
It's actually a bug in Ubuntu: http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/1... Man, I hate this sometimes.
Findings
#957 posted by gb [46.142.57.113] on 2013/04/21 23:39:53
Some more observations:
1. "Open recent" seems to do nothing.
2. Clicking "TrenchBroom Help" opens Firefox, but not the correct website.
Some problems I have while trying to quickly block out a room-and-corridor map:
1. Drawing new brushes with the mouse makes them appear "somewhere in space". I can't help but find Radiant's behaviour more intelligent, which is to make the newly created brush the same height as the previously selected one and place it on the same ground plane.
2. Having to press Alt (and everything that interferes with it on a Linux desktop) to be able to scale a brush in the Z direction. Again, Radiant allows you to resize brushes in all directions (in the 3D viewport) without any keypresses; the axis it chooses depends on your position relative to the brush and the mouse placement/movement. This seems quicker and more intuitive in Radiant.
3. I would appreciate (if a real 2D viewport is such a big no-no) to have at least an ortographic view toggle and keyboard shortcuts for top/side/front view like it is handled, for instance, in Blender. Example: When you press numpad 1 in Blender while in ortho view, you get a front view and the grid appears perpendicular to the camera. This (like the 2D view in other map editors) is helpful to check your mesh/brushes at a glance.
4. Movement through space is more intuitive in Radiant, because it is identical to the way you move ingame (with noclip). In this way, you don't need a camera orbit mode in Radiant, because you can practically circle-strafe around the object you want to examine. You can't beat WASD flythrough mode.
5. It is (in my opinion) easier to create a brush angled at exactly 45 degrees (or similar) in a 2D viewport, because that allows you to count the grid intersections to the side and to the top to arrive at the exact angle you want. In TrenchBroom, the grid is drawn on the brush itself; while you can do the counting, it is harder to do in TrenchBroom. This is another case where an orthographic top view with a grid shown in the entire viewport would really help. Note that while I could use a "helper brush" to allow me to do the counting, I'm one of those people who prefer to block out the walls first, not the floors.
6. I would appreciate a keyboard shortcut for "snap all selected brushes to the current grid" identical to Ctrl-G in Radiant. I just like to make damn sure that stuff is on grid.
Most of these problems relate to quick blocking out of buildings. I'll gladly believe that triangle terrain is easier to do in Trenchbroom, and that vertex editing is more comfortable (you pretty much have to use the clipper in Radiant to get the shape you want), but for blocking out angular geometry I find myself wanting to use Radiant.
I'll keep trying TB, though.
Gb
#958 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/21 23:57:35
1. "Open recent" seems to do nothing.
This is already fixed, but I haven't pushed the changes yet.
2. Clicking "TrenchBroom Help" opens Firefox, but not the correct website.
I'll look into it. Where is TB installed on your system? What permissions are set for the Resources directory?
1. Drawing new brushes with the mouse makes them appear "somewhere in space". I can't help but find Radiant's behaviour more intelligent, which is to make the newly created brush the same height as the previously selected one and place it on the same ground plane.
Brushes only appear "somewhere" if you don't start drawing them on some other surface. Once you have a couple brushes laid down, this becomes rather intuitive IMO.
2. Having to press Alt (and everything that interferes with it on a Linux desktop) to be able to scale a brush in the Z direction. Again, Radiant allows you to resize brushes in all directions (in the 3D viewport) without any keypresses; the axis it chooses depends on your position relative to the brush and the mouse placement/movement. This seems quicker and more intuitive in Radiant.
You can resize in any direction in TB by holding shift. Alt is only for moving things in the Z direction. I'm staying away from any kind of functionality that depends on the camera direction / position for all operations (exception resizing where it's implicit).
3. I would appreciate (if a real 2D viewport is such a big no-no) to have at least an ortographic view toggle and keyboard shortcuts for top/side/front view like it is handled, for instance, in Blender. Example: When you press numpad 1 in Blender while in ortho view, you get a front view and the grid appears perpendicular to the camera. This (like the 2D view in other map editors) is helpful to check your mesh/brushes at a glance.
Yeah, we've had this discussion already, and the gist if it is "no" ;-). What you're suggesting is basically a poor substitute for a 2D view. If you can't live without 2D views, this editor is not for you. That said, there seem to be plenty of people who, after getting used to how TB operates, don't mind the lack of 2D views.
4. Movement through space is more intuitive in Radiant, because it is identical to the way you move ingame (with noclip). In this way, you don't need a camera orbit mode in Radiant, because you can practically circle-strafe around the object you want to examine. You can't beat WASD flythrough mode.
I'm already working on a fly through mode which will also allow you to do editing much like how it works in the Sauerbraten editor.
5. It is (in my opinion) easier to create a brush angled at exactly 45 degrees (or similar) in a 2D viewport, because that allows you to count the grid intersections to the side and to the top to arrive at the exact angle you want. In TrenchBroom, the grid is drawn on the brush itself; while you can do the counting, it is harder to do in TrenchBroom. This is another case where an orthographic top view with a grid shown in the entire viewport would really help. Note that while I could use a "helper brush" to allow me to do the counting, I'm one of those people who prefer to block out the walls first, not the floors.
A positionable 3D grid is already planned for the next version. It will help in such situations.
6. I would appreciate a keyboard shortcut for "snap all selected brushes to the current grid" identical to Ctrl-G in Radiant. I just like to make damn sure that stuff is on grid.
What do you mean by "snap all selected brushes" - snap their vertices?
Most of these problems relate to quick blocking out of buildings. I'll gladly believe that triangle terrain is easier to do in Trenchbroom, and that vertex editing is more comfortable (you pretty much have to use the clipper in Radiant to get the shape you want), but for blocking out angular geometry I find myself wanting to use Radiant.
Yup, TB is weak in that department. I'm trying to address this with the positionable 3D grid and other features.
Thanks for your feedback!
#959 posted by gb [46.142.57.113] on 2013/04/22 01:17:29
What do you mean by "snap all selected brushes" - snap their vertices?
Yep, snap them so all their vertices are on the currently selected grid.
Brushes only appear "somewhere" if you don't start drawing them on some other surface. Once you have a couple brushes laid down, this becomes rather intuitive IMO.
I noticed that the plane they appear on seems to be influenced by where you click on adjacent brushes, but I haven't managed to draw a new brush on the same ground plane as an adjacent brush.
More observations...
7. A shortcut to rotate any object by 90 degrees around the Z axis would be nice for e.g. monster placement. It is just faster than using an arbitrary rotation tool.
8. Rotating a brush horizontally to some arbitrary angle, then rotating it back (with snap to grid turned on) makes the brush go off grid with some coordinates now being floating point numbers. Thus it is pretty easy to create off-grid geometry, and that's where a "snap to grid" button would be useful.
9. Setting the angle of a func_door could be more comfortable if it was displayed in the 3D view.
10. Creating a key on an entity requires mouse clicking on the "Value" field after entering the key name; it would be faster to automatically move the cursor into the Value field after pressing Enter. Because as it is now, it requires you to reach for the mouse in between.
11. Creating a hollow box is harder in this 3D view than it is in a (Radiant) 2D viewport. I'm not talking about CSG Make Hollow, just building a box by hand. I like to box my maps during development, and I box large outdoor areas as well (put the pitchforks away, I know what I'm doing). I'm just saying it is hard to create a simple hollow box made from 6 brushes around the entire map with the 6 sides perfectly fitting, because drawing brushes (and navigating around the map, too) is klunky right now.
12. I find myself wanting to increase the movement speed of the WASD keys.
13. It would be good to have a method of axis-aligned movement; ie restrict moving a brush to the X or Y axis as well as the Z axis. Use case: Still trying to make a non-leaking large box.
Anyway, I'll quit for tonight.
I appreciate the idea of making a 3D-only editor, but IMHO this dogma introduces a couple of its own problems that would be very easily solved by such terrible things like a switchable 2D viewport or even a gizmo. It seems extremist to see the 3D viewport as the only good way to map.
It's not like I depend on the 2D viewports in a big way; I mainly use the 3D viewport in Radiant as well, which is definitely possible. I just think that for certain specific uses, a 2D view is very hard to beat.
More power to you, of course, it is your editor after all.
Force Integer Plane Points
#960 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/22 02:54:50
I used this on my speedmap, getting all kinds of crazy problems when I try to compile it. Is using this more or less prone to microleaks? It seems I can't use snap vertices and snap to grid to fix these problems.
Map is here if you're interested -
http://depositfiles.com/files/sgik...
compiled with treeq (tyr's wont let me compile beyond the bsp stage for some reason)
FifthElephant
#961 posted by mechtech [65.190.158.200] on 2013/04/22 03:51:37
I sent an email with that map. Loaded into Hammer and again the bad brushes could not be loaded. After I plugged the holes no leaks.
I added func_detail the map layout was a vis killer.
Link below works to compile.
I have found it to create bad pointfiles but everything else seems to work.
http://disenchant.net/files/utils/...
Maybe you could use Hammer to filter out bad brushes. Trenchbroom's rules for bad brushes seem loose.
Gb
#962 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/22 09:39:07
7. A shortcut to rotate any object by 90 degrees around the Z axis would be nice for e.g. monster placement. It is just faster than using an arbitrary rotation tool.
Look at Edit > Actions when brushes or entities are selected.
8. Rotating a brush horizontally to some arbitrary angle, then rotating it back (with snap to grid turned on) makes the brush go off grid with some coordinates now being floating point numbers. Thus it is pretty easy to create off-grid geometry, and that's where a "snap to grid" button would be useful.
That's pretty much unavoidable, but you can of course always use undo.
9. Setting the angle of a func_door could be more comfortable if it was displayed in the 3D view.
I agree that the angle indicators are flimsy right now. I'll improve their visibility.
10. Creating a key on an entity requires mouse clicking on the "Value" field after entering the key name; it would be faster to automatically move the cursor into the Value field after pressing Enter. Because as it is now, it requires you to reach for the mouse in between.</a>
Can't do it right now due to a limitation in wxWidgets, but it will be fixed as soon as wxWidgets 2.9.5 is released. Although I think you can move to the next field with TAB right now.
13. It would be good to have a method of axis-aligned movement; ie restrict moving a brush to the X or Y axis as well as the Z axis. Use case: Still trying to make a non-leaking large box.
Also being worked on.
I appreciate the idea of making a 3D-only editor, but IMHO this dogma introduces a couple of its own problems that would be very easily solved by such terrible things like a switchable 2D viewport or even a gizmo. It seems extremist to see the 3D viewport as the only good way to map.
It's not like I depend on the 2D viewports in a big way; I mainly use the 3D viewport in Radiant as well, which is definitely possible. I just think that for certain specific uses, a 2D view is very hard to beat.
I agree with that. The reason why I'm trying avoid 2D views is that I want to find out how far I can push the 3D only approach. If it turns out that, even with things like a moveable grid, it is not possible to do certain tasks comfortably at all, then I'll reconsider 2D views.
Goddamn Tags ;-)
#963 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/22 09:39:55
FifthElephant
#964 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/22 09:40:11
I'll take a look!
Mechtech...
#965 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/22 12:18:58
The bad pointfiles are the reason why I'm resorting to using TreeQ, the only problem with that is I am playing a lottery game with brushes. I'm trying to avoid using Hammer if possible. I think maybe was that I had used the "force plane integers" on this map which really I only need vertex integers (probably).
As for it being a vis killer, I think this is going to be my curse as I used to make very open/large Unreal maps. Also I didn't really plan it properly because it's a speedmap. I think I will probably avoid terrain for speedmaps in the future..
Fifth
#966 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/22 12:25:54
The option to use integer plane points mostly exists for backward compatibility with older compilers. It will not avoid problems with brushes and might even produce more microleaks.
You need to get a feeling for what brush shapes are "safe" and what aren't. I haven't looked at the map you posted above, but here are some general rules:
- fewer faces on a brush are better
- very big and very small brushes can cause problems
- integer vertex coordinates can help, but cannot always be guaranteed due to rounding errors or lack of precision when integer vertex coordinates are enabled
Everyone feel free to add to that list.
#967 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/22 14:01:27
I used the speedmap to experiment with something that I haven't used yet. I think this backs up my thoughts quite well though, and it's clear to me that the compilers and the editors aren't really designed to do the things I want to do with terrain.
I have a few more experiments to do with terrain but I doubt they'll be as nice as what I've tried to do so far.
#968 posted by Willem [199.255.42.114] on 2013/04/22 14:47:17
Keep in mind how old Quake is. If you want to get crazy, maybe make maps for something more modern. Doing crazy crap in Quake is a challenge for people rather than the preferred platform. :)
Yeah
#969 posted by Drew [216.252.64.162] on 2013/04/22 15:18:35
might be right - speedmaps are good places to experiment with that kind of stuff though.
Fifth
#970 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/22 16:27:37
While I do encourage experimentation, I suggest you stick with trisoup or even prisms. The fewer vertices a face has, the better. The fewer faces a brush has, the better - ergo prisms are optimal.
SW
#971 posted by mfx [78.55.15.143] on 2013/04/22 16:38:25
Like Wedges<Pyramids<tetrahedrons...
Or
#972 posted by mfx [78.55.15.143] on 2013/04/22 17:07:03
has the brush geometry always need to have some thickness?
I.e like not using two edges to seal the map from void
(and avoid bsp holes)?
Not getting it...
SW
#973 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/22 17:28:45
Yeah my next attempt at terrain will be some kind of trisoup/prism thing, but the work involved for this is hefty (and unlike cubes it's not as good for sealing off back faces). I really can't wait until you implement a floor lofter style tool, or have some kind of easy way of grouping brushes together for manipulation (or have a layer system).
It's still early days yet and I guess I'm still learning.
Layer System?
#974 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/22 17:48:51
What do you mean by that?
mfx: Ask me on wednesday when we have some paper in front of us ;-)
Like Photoshop
#975 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/04/22 18:33:30
or Worldcraft. You can make "layers", just throw brushes into the layer and you make them visible or invisible. I thought this was a feature you may look at adding some time down the line. It's probably more useful if you have 2d views though.
Oh Right
#976 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/22 19:30:07
TB will have groups for that purpose. You will then be able to hide and lock such groups.
Yeah
#977 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/04/22 19:31:29
In WC they're called 'visgroups'.
Yeah
#978 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/22 20:18:03
Hey Ijed
#979 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.233.113] on 2013/04/22 20:18:09
Fifth
#980 posted by mechtech [65.190.158.200] on 2013/04/23 03:11:17
I've been using TyrUtils and Txqbsp.exe as a work around if I need to find a leak. I can't see the point of mapping without func_detail now.
TB can make some really wild brushes to the point that it's hard to tell if there valid. Simple is better. Make a few simple brushes instead of one complex monster. An option is create the complex brush and fill it in with simple ones to make the same shape then delete the complex one.
You can also make up prefab brush groups. As long as there good and on grid you can mash them up to create varied terrain.
IMO creating valid error free terrain has been the hardest thing to learn in Quake editing.
#981 posted by Tyrann [203.122.220.108] on 2013/04/23 11:20:00
That pointfile bug sucks, I'll get to work on that.
Mechtech
#982 posted by ijed [190.22.41.127] on 2013/04/23 13:46:18
Well, getting proper vis blocking is tricky as well - lots of maps are made without any at all and have infinite vis times. Detail brushes should help this some as well now though. But for the want of a few dogleg corridors or a doughnut, we've probably not seen many maps that the author(s) gave up on.
Sleepwalker, I'm going to start using trenchbroom exclusively now, so should be able to provide some more valid contributions in the coming weeks :)
Awesome
#983 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.103.48] on 2013/04/23 15:10:07
I'm also looking for another tester if you're interested.
Ok
#984 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/04/23 15:12:36
I'm already signed up on github, but haven't been active.
I Publish Betas Via Dropbox
#985 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/04/23 17:21:47
If you have DB, can you give me the email address you use for it?
Sure
#986 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/04/23 17:24:01
Same as in my profile.
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Ouch
#987 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/04/23 18:10:31
Current version says it's a 15 hour d/l ;)
Ok
#988 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/04/23 18:25:17
Got it. Server burp.
Alright
#989 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/04/23 18:47:33
Sent you an invite, but I deleted all old betas just now, so the folder is empty ;-). I'll upload a new build later.
This Editor
#990 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/04/24 23:39:34
Is the business.
Problem
#991 posted by mechtech [65.190.158.200] on 2013/05/08 17:01:32
Sorry about not posting to the proper location.
If I use the texture named 1999
I get
"Malformed map file: expected token of type string, but found integer number at line 1249, column 67"
Texture Names
#992 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2013/05/08 17:16:50
Have to begin with a letter not a number - I think this is common to all textures.
Interesting...
#993 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2013/05/08 21:55:25
I should add that to my texture faq.
Do They?
#994 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.132] on 2013/05/09 01:58:24
Where's that writ? There is another bug in TB's map parser concerning texture names beginning with a curly brace. I could fix this one too while I'm at it, but only if all-digit texture names are valid. Someone should check the Quake source.
Unnamed Textures
#995 posted by Baker [69.47.162.203] on 2013/05/09 06:10:25
Aerowalk has an unnamed texture in the map somehow, if I recall correctly.
"{" Texture
#996 posted by Baker [69.47.162.203] on 2013/05/09 06:12:35
Is used by Remake Quake for "fence textures" (alpha masked where palette index 255 is transparent), just like Half-Life.
Yes
#997 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.132] on 2013/05/09 07:39:43
But I would like to have a word with whoever had the idea to use a curly brace in the texture name.
Hahaha
#998 posted by Baker [69.47.162.203] on 2013/05/09 08:03:42
I understand.
!!
#999 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/05/09 12:51:46
Ahhh SW, you make me chuckle. ;)
Uh
#1000 posted by ijed [190.22.31.54] on 2013/05/09 13:48:46
It was 'us' - I name no names, collective responsibility.
It Was MH
#1001 posted by onetruepurple [91.240.47.30] on 2013/05/09 16:25:50
n/t
Then 'you' Will Pay For This Atrocity ;-)
#1002 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.105.132] on 2013/05/09 21:14:39
Dunno Why
#1003 posted by FifthElephant [82.12.230.210] on 2013/05/09 21:25:10
they chose on the curly brace, I mean they could have just used a key of "mask" like they did with alpha surely?
I have a nice idea for alpha masks for another map, I think they're all going to be speedmaps from now on btw (since I'm not longer unemployed)... saying that I'm trying to get my sp map sorted before monday, I have actually added a lot of extra stuff so if you downloaded the mp version of deck it will be worth downloading the sp ;)
FifthElephant
#1004 posted by quaketree [76.14.42.216] on 2013/05/10 05:38:27
I'm actually looking forward to seeing "Deck" in SP. I don't "Do" MP so seeing how you envisioning it to play out will be interesting.
Same
#1005 posted by Drew [216.252.90.61] on 2013/05/10 21:24:16
Best Level Editor I Have Ever Used
#1006 posted by Schneiden [71.167.164.25] on 2013/05/22 02:00:05
And I mean it, absolutely incredible. It really is.
Really Have To Get Around To This
#1007 posted by Drew [216.252.92.78] on 2013/05/22 07:13:20
Maybe will see if I can get it to run in June. To and kid will be out of town for a week s will have time to dork out like in ye olde days.
To = Gf
#1008 posted by Drew [216.252.92.78] on 2013/05/22 07:13:49
iPad
Schneiden
#1009 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.59.92] on 2013/05/22 07:21:34
Thanks, glad you like it.
Drew, go for it!
Particle Editor
#1010 posted by Julius [41.190.198.233] on 2013/05/29 18:04:15
Any chance you might be adding a gui particle editor for Darkplaces into Trenchbroom?
http://www.quakewiki.net/darkplace...
http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-h...
Particle Editor
#1011 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/05/29 18:25:37
Just create a feature request at the bug tracker, but the chances that it'll happen soon are pretty slim.
Particles
#1012 posted by Spiney [91.177.81.254] on 2013/05/29 22:01:41
I'dd rather see engine maintainers settle on a universal and highly modular particle system. The DP one is useful but relatively fixed function.
Vanilla Only
#1013 posted by deqer [68.149.147.30] on 2013/05/30 05:31:57
I'd rather see the editor stay focused on vanilla aspects, first and foremost, and/or perhaps only.
#1014 posted by Spiney [91.177.74.141] on 2013/05/30 16:12:04
I agree with first and foremost. Non vanilla would be nice, as long as it's integrated non-intrusive. Maybe a plugin API could fill those gaps at some point? Long term speculation...
Multiple Game Support, Particle Systems
#1015 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.243.224] on 2013/05/30 16:24:02
Multiple game support will be in the editor. Particle system is unlikely, sorry. Plugin API is an interesting idea and may happen at some point if there is (serious) interest in writing plugins.

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