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|  | Q1SP: Soul Of Evil: Indian Summer Released!

Posted by Vondur [89.175.96.234] on 2008/08/15 15:35:34

Well, QEXPO may not be quite up and running just yet, but it's August 15th, so here it is:
Soul of Evil: Indian Summer
http://www.quaddicted.com/filebase... (23 MB)
A custom engine is required - aguirReQuake or Darkplaces.
This is a standalone fantasy-themed Q1SP episode, with many new features programmed by Patrick Martin. It contains nonlinear gameplay, horde combat, and new and modified enemies with new and modified attacks, making it a big challenge. Major thanks to aguiRe, ijed, Trinca and Zwiffle.
Further information in the readme:
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy....
Screenshots:
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy....
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy....
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy....
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy....
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy....
I'm also releasing packages of hires skins for SOE created by aguiRe:
http://www.quaddicted.com/filebase... for the aguirReQuake version, http://www.quaddicted.com/filebase... is the Dark Places version.
Devkit will be released sometime during QEXPO.

This Is A Great Pack.
#1 posted by Ijed [195.189.142.203] on 2008/08/15 16:32:58
Congrats on the release.
Something Big
#2 posted by CI475 [82.52.113.203] on 2008/08/15 16:57:26
Can't wait to try it
Wow Wow Wow,
#3 posted by Dooomer [123.154.83.177] on 2008/08/15 17:42:58
Been waiting for this one to go out for quite long time!
Great gift for a good weekend! Thanks a lot!!!
Looks Interesting
#4 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/08/15 18:04:18
Is Patrick Martin still active, though? I briefly looked into finding him, bu the trail went dead about 5 years ago.
Also, booths are now open, even though Jehar is yet to officially announce the opening. That will likely come today.
Yeah
#5 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/15 18:12:41
Yes, he is active, I can give you his email if you want. He is working on a Quoth-like mod (Q1SP-focused set of new features and content) called Drake. Many of the features in this pack are from Drake.
C1475: That's what she said (sorry, couldn't resist)
& thanks for the news post Vondur.
OMG
#6 posted by spy [92.47.237.120] on 2008/08/16 07:56:27
Finally
Indian Burn
#7 posted by negke [82.83.43.177] on 2008/08/16 10:15:36
The maps are good - architecture, style, layout, story. All very Soul of Evilish and uniquely themed, especially the third map which seemed like a collection of great features from various custom maps in one large level (ruined cathedral, shore, underwater stuff, "shadow"-pyramid section, church etc). The textures made the maps feel different but cool. The third map in particular reminded me of some of the recent ubermaps for ZDoom.
However, unfortunately not only in terms of style/grandheur but also conercerning the gameplay and difficulty. Even on skill 1, the maps are very hard - and in some situations not in a challenging way anymore. I resorted to god mode in several situations out of mere frustration. The new/modified monsters were cool but hordes of them, or at least a good number with strong attacks, didn't do much good. Archers, knights, vores attacking from a large distance (and with increased speed) became particularly annoying after a while.
The coins and gems were a neat feature, though I couldn't tell if they really helped much in the end. The new weapons came in handy, except for the laser blaster (SG) which I didn't use much. Cool dragons, hard though, and wtf for not being able to look up 90 degrees in BJP. I liked the ghost helper in the first map and the friendly soldiers in the second (though both weren't of much help after all) - well tied in with the story.
The boss area/fight was a nice change from the regular arena boss battles maps usually have. Defeating Bane became really tricky once he started resurrecting the monsters and using his lightning strike.
By and large a nice episode which I should have played on skill 0 however.
Yeah True
#8 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/16 10:39:27
I designed the maps basically in the original SoE package, where the monsters weren't really that much improved, and when PM added a whole bunch of new stuff the monsters became a lot more difficult, spiking the difficulty as a whole. I can barely pass it myself on skill 1, I'd recommend skill 0 to most people. Those who have a lot of patience (I don't) will find the gameplay less challenging; I myself prefer to charge in.
I do admit to being a total asshole with vore placement in some of the maps though (lol). The last vores in the pack are kind of there just so you can blow some away and finally get the better of 'em.
The Gems And Coins Do Help
#9 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/08/16 12:45:59
Because you need just about bloody everything you can get... I'll finish playing through it once I'm less "on the clock" with my map, and then I'll put a review in my booth.
Also: nice to see the anim frames used in interesting ways.
Thanks.
#10 posted by Paradise [209.183.32.20] on 2008/08/16 17:48:28
I enjoyed your first offering tremendously and wanted it to be longer. I am looking forward to this one, thanks! :)
#11 posted by CarnivoreAdaption [84.64.204.6] on 2008/08/16 20:54:12
Fitzquake worked somewhat until level 3.
Darkplaces (deleted progs.dat and renamed progs_dp.dat to progs.dat and it didnt work at all). aguirRe didnt work at all for me and froze up my computer. It was the latest one from the site too.
Guess I dont get to play :/ looks amazing from what I did get to see though.
Check Dp Version ?
#12 posted by RickyT23 [90.217.64.245] on 2008/08/17 04:36:25
Hmm
#13 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/17 07:02:32
yeah if you have a recent DP version you should be fine; the only problem I've seen is one clipping error in nsoe3 (map may be too big for DP) where you can walk right through a solid stone. Other than that, it works fine.
can't imagine aguirRequake not working - it's really fast and always works for me. What's your system?
Map Too Big For DP?
#14 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/08/17 09:25:49
I don't know how that follows. It doesn't have the +/-4096 wraparound. Could be a corrupted brush, maybe?
DP works for me, but I'm using a July 2008 build (not using the release build yet, waiting for a bug to be fixed)
I'm gonna have another go at playing this soon, on skill 0...
Right...
#15 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.29.116] on 2008/08/17 12:00:04
...bearing in mind I've heard all the jokes/gasps about my weirdass control settings already -- how come I can't bind mouse3 to backpedal in SOE:Indian Summer?
Congrats Tronyn
#16 posted by [Kona] [118.92.141.23] on 2008/08/17 13:20:34
So good to see you releasing stuff! Your such a great level designer, I hope you find the time to release your other stuff too.
Just played through all of this and it was fantastic. Very similar in design to the first SOE. I really don't think the first 2 levels were up to the standard of the last three. The first in particularly wasn't the right style. Both could have done with some more detail. Still, they were both pretty fun, but only up to ID standards.
Your levels, Tronyn, were fantastic, nsoe3 in particular! I jumped the pyramid hoping to leave those 3 dragons in the dust. Then once I'm finished in the pyramid I teleport back to find them right in my damn face. I got some Shambler/dragon infighting though, which helped. The homage to Shadow Over Innsmouth was awesome.
The next level was good, but I'm biased against void maps. Never liked them that much. Still, this is probably the best void map I've ever played.
That third map is difficult though. I got past the first fight pretty easily with just the DSG, then the next one aswell because the bars closed just as I backtracking out again, so I just lobbed a dozen grenades into the cage. If I got stuck in that cage, it would have made the dragons and Bane incredibly difficult. In the end all I had left for Bane was DSG :o Those dragons can be quite annoying to fight actually.
Some of the fights in this were too frustrating, especially Vores, Ogres and enemies with arrows on very distant ledges. I wouldn't recommend playing it above skill 0 unless your very strategic and patient. You probably should have made this a little easier, Tronyn. All the extra pickups and boost in armour/ammo was helpful though.
But on the other hand, it's not impossible. I didn't need to cheat at all, and I only found 2 secrets which didn't help me much.
Anyway, can't wait for your next release buddy! What you working on next? :D
Nvm
#17 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.29.116] on 2008/08/17 16:10:10
I changed it the long way. This pack is rock hard. I don't generally go in for all the swords and sorcery shenanigans and the word 'thee' makes me die a little inside, but the level design's proving quite fun so far, and I like all the monster drops.
Heh
#18 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/17 16:32:48
it's true that it is a bit more strongly fantasy flavoured than the original SoE (which was actually going to feature medieval weaponry and player classes - I'll bet you're glad I didn't end up doing that!). But hey to each his own. As for the difficulty, I can only suggest turning the skill level down (if possible) or playing more strategically. There are some secrets which should help a lot in maps 3 and 4 (including one where you get revenge on some vores). The difficulty was a compromise - PM and I play differently - he plays strategically, I play like a rampaging brute (lol) - so he wanted it more challenging, I wanted it less. Anyway hope you still enjoy it.
re: [Kona]
Great to see you back hanging out here. I just replayed Brumal Quest, probably your most atmospheric level. Glad you liked the Shadow Over Innsmouth homage; I've always loved that map. Lol I can't believe you beat the fight at the start of the last map with just a DS. Impressive. Also funny that you found that cage hack, none of us (testers/developers) did. I always barely win the Trog fight and have to recover health at the top. The void map was sort of a reinterpretation of the SoE E2 theme; ijed suggested I remove the vores on the far ledge; maybe I should have, the possibility of falling off makes it fairly tough.
Now I'm gonna start Soul of Evil 3 - maybe do 4-5 more medieval ruins maps, and 4-5 more underground wizard maps, you know. Should come out in another 6 years. Lol. But seriously, I'm just trying to finish the projects I've started. Arcanum has to come next or Pulsar might strangle me. After that I've got Unforgiven. I'll post some shots later during QEXPO.
PS I don't suppose you're going to make anything now that you're back. It would be pretty cool to see a map by you now that so many old limitations have been removed; your maps usually have 2-3 floors, you could make something with 5 or 6 in your trademark style. But as you're well aware this can be a really time consuming hobby and vistimes are a bitch (over 600 hours for my 3 nsoe maps).
The Sword Is Awesome!
#19 posted by dooomer [123.154.83.211] on 2008/08/17 17:05:15
in 2nd map I depleted all my shells on a bunch of knights, and had to use sword, and guess what, I accidentally managed to behead the last one!! (and it's the tougher one with red strips on his body)
This is fun, for beheading an enemy is obviously an instant kill.
I guess I am going to use my sword more often now. Wonder if I can behead a fiend??
Tronyn...
#20 posted by ionous [75.68.128.81] on 2008/08/17 17:22:04
nsoe3 crashes aRguire's Quake for me as well. The beta did not do that.
:
Excessive clipnodes (44041, Normal Max = 32769) in maps/nsoe3
Call, 2291
bunch of crap about shamber.qc
Pf_Precache_sound: overflow
host_error: program error
Hmm
#21 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/17 17:46:00
Excessive clipnodes won't crash it (and the final version has clipnodes less than the beta - I removed that painful warehouse area). I'll mail PM and aguirRe and see if they have any ideas.
Tronyn...
#22 posted by ionous [75.68.128.81] on 2008/08/17 18:32:19
Wrong choice of words on my behalf. It doens't crash Quake when I try to load the map, but dumps me back to the console. It won't load, the error I posted is what it says in the console.
Error
#23 posted by Preach [81.153.26.57] on 2008/08/17 19:18:25
This sounds like the error message generated when you load too many sounds in a single map. Do you have the latest version of aguirre's engines? On the version I have it reports such a warning in the same way as the excessive clipnodes warning for nsoe3 - I guess an older version might not be able to just handle it as a warning.
Just Finished
#24 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/08/17 19:30:12
Damn, that was hard!
I started at skill 2 and painfully worked my way up until the battle with the Bane. I must have died a hundred times in the previous levels. Those dragons and vores are a killer. But I admit defeat, as I wasn't able to defeat the Bane without god mode during the last half of the battle.
The maps are really great, especially nsoe3 and nsoe4. I didn't have any problems or errors with aguiRe's enhanced glquake, other than some slowdowns here and there in the big areas.
I don't think the gems, jewels and coins help a lot to keeping you alive, but they are nice to collect :)
But overall I thought it was a great map pack despite it's difficulty. I'm surely playing through this again, but at skill 1 this time ;)
Fantastic job Tronyn and all the others involved.
Hm
#25 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/17 19:41:03
did you use -heapsize 480000?
I'll let you know when aguirRe and or PM get back to me
doomer: glad you liked the sword. quake's axe was such shit. the sword's less handy in the later maps tho because of the horde combat.
Preach
#26 posted by ionous [75.68.128.81] on 2008/08/17 19:44:09
You were correct. The version I had was from 2005. Whoops. Smoothed out animations look neat.
Didn't turn my music off before playing. Nsoe3 intro music and Hefeystos make for an interesting mix.
Heh
#27 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/17 19:45:24
wow Orl, skill 2
my criteria was simply "I must be able to pass these maps on normal." I told PM, that on hard, people know what they're getting themselves into. The bane fight is balanced on skill 1 for me, but I get my ass handed to me every time on skill 2.
maybe in a future version the coins/gems could provide the player with a bigger bonus.
Heapsize
#28 posted by negke [82.83.31.220] on 2008/08/17 19:55:42
It's always recommended to increase the heapsize at least a little. In some maps, particularly the excessive ones, sound dropping may occur if it's too small (newer versions of BJP will show console warnings).
Whichever Playtester...
#29 posted by Shambler [77.97.138.124] on 2008/08/17 23:40:40
...said you don't actually need ammo to fight enemies - sack them.
Nsoe5
#30 posted by [Kona] [118.92.141.23] on 2008/08/18 02:47:14
Yeah, I left the MH aswell in that start battle aswell! If I knew I actually picked up a GL it probably would have been easier!
For me those 3 Vores in the void map were very difficult, but it was my own fault. I decided to leave them until I found a RL, rather than wasting nails. I spent the whole level running away from their bloody Vore Balls. Eventually when the dragons came, and I still had no RL, I finally just sat in the SK/GK room and nailgunned them, and took the dragons out with the DSG. Pity you lose your ammo at the start of each ammo - because I always left with heaps!
Yeah that sword is awesome. At one point I got Bane just below me on a ledge. He was trying to get me with his sword, and couldn't, so I just attacked him with my sword for ages. Then the fucker teleported behind me, and I was all wtf? so he hurt me good, so I had to reload. Never managed to get him back to the same ledge again.
Yeah, my levels were always rather small because of my computer limitations. I'd love to make some huge maps now. Although, a month of vis'ing doesn't sound good. Maybe I won't :P
Good luck with your future maps Tronyn! That Unforgiven one I'm looking forward to - remember originally it was us two that were going to make that episode in 2001? It was going to be the sequel to Rapture :) More medieval ruins and underground wizard = good. More base = bad. It would be good if you'd use more custom textures though. There's so many games from the last several years with textures that haven't been used in Quake. I should upload my textures sometime... I converted a lot.
Hrm
#31 posted by megaman [195.148.193.2] on 2008/08/18 11:14:57
only played the first map, kept dying on the second one right at the start on the first few knights; skill 1 i think.
One thing that i found a bit frustrating: i haven't played the original pack, so i don't know the monsters and pretty much died on each new monster the first time i saw it (that was on hard iirc); they do a lot of dmg if you don't know how they'll attack you. It would'be been nice to have some sort of introduction for each new type of enemy.
Well
#32 posted by Zwiffle [66.170.5.18] on 2008/08/18 18:34:42
It only took 50 years, but that crummy map I made was finally released. Oh hey, there's other stuff in there as well.
Haven't gotten past Trinca's map yet (the dragon keeps killing me) but I'm looking forward to getting past the first two crummy maps so I can play the last 3 good maps.
#33 posted by Trinca [89.181.40.131] on 2008/08/18 20:31:17
great that pack came out i´m just sad becouse they dont fucking run with joequake :| fuck i´m sick of old stile clients!!!
aguirre fix put your client more modern please!!!
Trinca
#34 posted by dooomer [65.49.14.82] on 2008/08/19 02:03:51
If you can't run it with Joequake, maybe you can give Qrack a try. It's a spin-off of Joequake, and is now in many ways better. I don't know if it can play all the way through without problem though, because I am now just in the second map.
#35 posted by Baker [69.47.51.111] on 2008/08/19 10:09:12
The decapitation effect of the sword was very cool. The animation was very good too.
Time To Join The Fray.
#36 posted by PM [72.216.23.99] on 2008/08/19 17:12:11
To Zwiffle and Trinca: As you have noticed, extra stuff was inserted into the maps, nsoe2 in particular. Once the devkit becomes available, the coders can look into the source and see for themselves the mess I wrote up. Also, there were originally too many Hell Lords in nsoe1 and nsoe2, so some of them were downgraded.
About nsoe2: Before the additions, nsoe2 seemed hard at the beginning, then gets progressively easier. By the time I get the rocket launcher, the five shal-rath at the end were a joke. During the rebalancing tests, damaged armor along with a dead guy were added at first, but then I thought why do that when I can add NPCs to fight monsters and mitigate the armorless player's limited ammo. So came the idea of rebels fighting the Bane's army, whose job in Quake life is to cause some damage then die like the redshirts they are. Also, as you all noticed, a ton of extra monsters were added to the end.
About the sword: It can decapitate anything except blobs (no head), the nsoe2 dragon boss, the trogboss, and the Bane himself. Zombies are gibbed instead of beheaded. I considered decapitation, then have the headless zombies continue after the player, but that was too much work for little gain. In addition to decapitation, the sword can deflect missiles by swinging the sword at them. Most missiles are too fast to deflect reliably. However, the lavaballs the Hell Lords fling are ideal for deflecting.
SoE: Indian Summer has some unused stuff. There is one unused weapon, a super-powered MIRV launcher that can be accessed via impulse 9 cheat. Impulse 14 gives the player dragonscale armor which is red armor with a morphing power.
With the various issues discovered since the release, I will work on a patch once I finish the devkit documentation. Bug reports or minor balance change suggestions, such as boosting treasure values, are welcome. I will also compile a version of the progs that will work with standard Quake by disabling some features and bypassing the map nsoe3.
#37 posted by nitin [210.84.52.139] on 2008/08/23 10:29:30
um, please fix the difficulty. upto map2 which is pretty much ridiculous on skill 1.
Managed To Finish It
#38 posted by nitin [210.84.31.98] on 2008/08/24 03:54:24
despite the extremely frustrating gameplay, some of the situations are an absolute joke.
But maps 3 and 4 look stunning, and have a mind boggling scale too (especially 3). And I liked the non-linearity. Too bad you die no matter which route you take :)
Currently Playing This
#39 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/24 10:06:00
i'm not going to really comment on the gameplay, just that in general, the fights are extremely difficult.
that said:
i liked, nsoe3 the most. i like the sprawling city/castle type feeling, and the clocktower looks great looming over the rest of the map. i also liked how the map starts, sort of in like a forest from inside of a quaint cottage. made a good contrast for when you hit the city/castle.
the final boss "bane" was crazy and had some cool attacks. i liked the lightning storm where the whole map gets dark for a bit before the strikes rain down. :)
i don't know what it is about picking up shiny things, but i loved the coins and gems, lol... it's like hellgate london ^_^
ty for quite a few hours of gaming! :D
Lol
#40 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/24 15:54:25
There will be an update coming out pretty soon - this will make the gameplay a lot easier in general. Also, it'll be playable in FitzQuake - the fitz progs will just skip Nsoe3. I'll post more info soon.
Anyway, a learning experience for future projects that will also use PM's stuff.
Treasure In Soul Of Evil.
#41 posted by PM [72.216.23.99] on 2008/08/24 16:50:08
In other fantasy themed mods or games, monsters drop treasure. If Soul of Evil had shops where you can buy stuff, treasure would be used as the generic "GP". If Soul of Evil had an experience point system in which the player can gain levels, treasure would also be a source of experience, much like in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. Since neither shops nor leveling exist, treasure serves as armor or health boosts like the helmets and potions in classic Doom. The lack of shops, or rather the inability to spend money, and the lack of leveling are not (good enough) reasons why monsters cannot drop treasure in Soul of Evil.
On another note, treasure will give more in the update to come.
Stuck On NSOE3.
#42 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.29.116] on 2008/08/24 17:34:22
Having died several times in the first big fight I decided to just leg it past most of the monsters and get a big infight going, which served its purpose quite nicely, but in the process I must have skipped quite a few pickups because I'm now hiding behind a rock near the water with very little health and ammo. I don't want to start the level again, but DarkPlaces is shit so it won't let me cheat without restarting the level, and AGL just won't run it.
Does anybody know of a way to disable DarkPlace's silly cheat system?
#43 posted by negke [82.82.174.75] on 2008/08/24 17:43:15
I'd rather leave it at requiring specific engines than skipping the best map of the entire episode...
Text_Fish: sv_cheats 1, restart. (quicksave/quickload instead of restart might work as well)
Yeah
#44 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/24 18:33:30
you just have to set sv_cheats to 1 anytime after you start the game (you could do it in any map, and it will hold until you quit or set it back to 0)
annoying "feature" in my view, at least having it as default is
Re: Skipping Nsoe3
#45 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/24 19:42:51
while i'd love it if it ran in fitzquake, skipping nsoe3 is a real shame...
i just wish i could run in aglquake instead of darkplaces but there's some wierd bug in aglquake where these blocks of grey void appear on top of my screen.
also: i wanted to say, i liked the look of nsoe4 a lot, but i forgot to mention that last time because there was so much to take in. ^_^
the way you start off in that totally enclosed round structure and then make your way down and all of a sudden, the wall gives way to girders and you see this huge wide open area... good use of contrasting volumes there. the vores though... yeah those guys pissed me off. chain lightning gun got a lot of use in this map. it was nice to have a lot of cells and actually be able to use it once in a while. :)
I Just Used The Laser Blaster On The Vores And Barons
#46 posted by nitin [124.168.119.143] on 2008/08/25 12:11:46
and also I second/third the non-removal of nsoe3, the best map by far.
#47 posted by [83.30.3.162] on 2008/08/25 18:51:19
Couldn't nsoe3 be just slightly trimmed instead of removed altogether? It had some sections that felt just tacked on (i.e. the pyramid area)
About Nsoe3
#48 posted by PM [72.216.23.99] on 2008/08/25 19:55:40
As a test during development, I removed all of the monsters so sound precaching and edict count would not exceed standard limits, and I still could not load nsoe3 in standard or FitzQuake. That map breaks limits that I cannot fix via QuakeC.
The upcoming progs that would work in standard/FitzQuake by skipping nsoe3 (among other cutbacks) would not replace the default nsoe progs. It would simply be an alternate progs.dat, like progs_dp.dat is for DarkPlaces. At first, people were lamenting that SoE: Indian Summer would not run in FitzQuake. Now people seem to be opposed to the idea of a scaled back version of the progs. The point of the so-called Fitz progs to come is so that anyone who cannot load any of the enhanced Quake engines can still play SoE: Indian Summer. Unless Tronyn says otherwise, there will be three progs.dat files in the update to come, with the AguirRe Quake progs as the default. Only the Fitz progs would have any cutbacks.
One note: The only difference between the default progs for AguirRe Quake and the progs for DarkPlaces is the DarkPlaces progs has modified flymode code, which would be necessary had one of the levels included dragonscale armor, a variant red armor which lets the player morph into a dragon. As I wrote earlier, the cheat 'impulse 14' is available to test the morph.
Ok
#49 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/08/25 20:37:54
so PM and I are going to tone down the difficulty (btw, necros, glad you appreciated nsoe4. If you can believe it, nsoe3 and 4 were originally one map - lol, then nsoe4 and nsoe5 were originally one map.)
Here's what I'm thinking:
-Remove some of the Vores that are in the most frustrating positions in snoe3 and 4
-Gems and Coins give bigger bonuses
-Demote many of the Hell Lords to Hell Knights
-Up the player's health and armour limits
Does this seem fair enough to everyone?
Tronyn
#50 posted by ionous [75.68.128.81] on 2008/08/25 21:54:57
Those seem like good fixes, and would help out a lot. What might also help is toning down the dragons a little, either make them slower, or have their attacks do less damage. Right now, they pretty much mop the floor with the player.
Nsoe3
#51 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.29.116] on 2008/08/25 23:58:44
Cor. Okay, having resorted to god mode on a couple of occasions, I've finally completed this level. I appreciate that resorting to cheats does change the intended experience somewhat, but I feel compelled to vent my feelings regarding this level as it is indicative of something that's been bothering me more and more about Quake level design recently.
Why's everybody so keen to make farcically huge Quake maps these days? Now I don't have a cutting edge machine any longer but I'd like to think that anything capable of running COD4 would be able to run a Quake mod fairly easily, even in DarkPlaces. As a matter of preference I've turned down most of the sparkly gimmicks that DarkPlaces offers, but NSOE3 still had my machine chugging in some places, which made the already epic battles even more difficult and generally reflected badly upon the rest of my experience in the level.
A lot of new code has clearly gone in to this mod and for the most part it's excellent, but why not implement some Quoth-like hub code that would allow the level to be split in to two or three smaller sections? The big blue area could certainly be a map of its own. Speaking of which, I found the spawn battle at the end of this bit appallingly misjudged. I don't mind spawns as a monster in their own right, but having to snipe a bunch of them in a large blue chamber before I can proceed is not fun in the slightest.
Having said all that, I do still look forward to the following level, as the demo makes it look good fun.
!
#52 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/26 01:55:03
If you can believe it, nsoe3 and 4 were originally one map
ahahahaa you're a maniac. ^_^
At first, people were lamenting that SoE: Indian Summer would not run in FitzQuake. Now people seem to be opposed to the idea of a scaled back version of the progs.
i think you're missing the point here. they're saying the map should have been designed to load up in fitz/standard glquake to begin with.
i sort of feel this way too-- i was forced to use darkplaces which runs a lot slower than normal glquake does (aguire's glquake has a major bug on my system that puts wierd grey squares all over my screen) so like text_fish, soe2, 3 and 4 all ran pretty poorly on my intel 2ghz ati x1950 pro machine. i understand a lot of this has to do with the lack of scalability of the quake engine-- 20000 wpoly in quake and quake4 is totally different for example. even with fancy effects, 20k wpoly in quake4 would probably run smoother than in quake.
in anycase, having nsoe3 present far outweighs having the mod run in fitz. it's the visual highlight of this pack for sure.
Hiho, Guys...
#53 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/08/26 14:24:59
...can anyone teach how to increase the amount of ram allocated by quake on a Mac system(the -winmem or hunkmegs or whaddaf**k command)? Is it even possible to do so?
Thanks a lot...
Well I Dont Know About Macs
#54 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.43] on 2008/08/26 15:06:45
but have you tried -heapsize ?
That's what most modern engines seem to use (with a couple of exceptions)
-winmem and -hunkmegs arent too familiar with me, although WinQuake uses -winmem AFAIK...
Thanks, Ricky...
#55 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/08/26 15:14:19
...but I think the one you mentioned(along with the ones I wrote) only work on windows based OSs...
Moreover, I wouldn't know how to start Quake from a command line (maybe via terminal?).
But, thanks a lot anyway...
#56 posted by Spirit [213.39.196.176] on 2008/08/26 15:50:27
-heapsize x (where x is Kilobytes, so -heapsize 100000 is 100 Megabytes) should work.
Yes, via terminal. Or create some kind of starter icon (I guess something like that exists even on a Mac)?
Tronyn
#57 posted by nitin [124.168.119.143] on 2008/08/26 15:50:42
my main problem was ammo.
And yes, the dragons are way tpp strong, especially when there's at least 5 of them at the one time.
Silent:
#58 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/26 19:03:10
sdl fitzquake runs on mac and it pops up a nice little box that lets you type in command line args before you start.
Necros
#59 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.179.56] on 2008/08/26 20:55:12
aguire's glquake has a major bug on my system that puts wierd grey squares all over my screen)
try -nomtex on the commandline
#60 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/27 01:52:26
that made the whole screen grey (except for a lil bit around my gun).
also, not sure if this is linked, but when i quit, the screen rez stayed the same and wouldn't let me change without restarting the computer. :S
The Silent
#61 posted by mwh [118.93.57.65] on 2008/08/27 05:37:11
Which engine are you using? Both the ones I've used let you specify command line args, either, as spirit says, on the command line (./GLQuake.app/Contents/MacOS/GLQu... -whatever) or in a dialog before the game plays (maybe try holding down the option key as you open the app?).
My Mac OSX Engine Of Choice
#62 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/08/27 08:50:48
is Fruitz Of Dojo's GL Quake. I like it because it lets you use command key to strafe left, as I usually do (weird, I know).
Fitzquake does not allow use of the command key, leaving me with an uneasy (for me) keyboard use.
I only use it when I'm forced to do so...
Precious advices anyway, I'll try them. Thanks a lot.
Btw, Necros, ne_lend is AWESOME. Loved it to death(!).
Btw2, does anyone know of a Mac OSx engine capable of running higher end maps as nsoe3?
Tenebrae on my mac just gives a black screen with sparse bits of architecture scattered around. So I'm stuck with Fitz and Fruitz Of Dojo's GL Quake, but they don't handle maps as, say, Masque of the Red Death. Anyone has an idea?
Windows Emulator?
#63 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.43] on 2008/08/27 11:27:38
Then use DP or AGLQuake :P
Clever...
#64 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/08/27 12:37:00
;)
#65 posted by stevenaaus [203.55.33.219] on 2008/08/28 02:59:23
Map 2: "yeahmmm - seen those archers before." "Holy cow, did that shambler respawn the Vore ?!" "Dragons are awesome." Interesting quad which i desparately needed. Map 3: running like a chicken shit at the start, and from the dragons. Awesome sky.. classic map.
Just a few notes ... The coins/gems are cute, but can't be bothered trailing after them for a lousy +1. .... It's nice to be able to get up close to those zombie fuckers and give them a good shagging. I probably wouldn't have realised except for the demo. ... Darkplaces 20080808 seems to have no problems so far (except that it runs like a drunken three legged dog on my FX5600 ).
Kona and the nsoe3 dragons.. laugh :). I had to make a dash for the cave/tunnel, took out three from there, then one down in the church, and the last with the grenade launcher strafing around a column somewhere. They are pretty f-ing hard - but they *are* dragons.
Mac Darkplaces
#66 posted by stevenaaus [203.55.33.219] on 2008/08/28 03:04:24
> Btw2, does anyone know of a Mac OSx engine capable of running higher
> end maps as nsoe3?
I just installed the latest stable Darkplaces engine, which seem to go fine and might compile without much hassle on OSX. Havoc says: "Note: no Mac binaries included this time, I have not set up compiling on a Mac I have access to yet, if you need Mac binaries please email me to remind me". You could try here, but it's possible you'll have issues with an older version:
http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Games...
#67 posted by stevenaaus [203.55.33.219] on 2008/08/28 03:10:09
oops ... ??
Status On Progs.dat For Update.
#68 posted by PM [72.216.23.99] on 2008/09/04 21:35:47
More testing revealed nsoe4 can break edict limits due to high number of missiles generated should one try to run through the beginning as quickly as possible for whatever reason (speedrun, cause infighting, get big guns now). That, among other things which will be revealed in due time, has changed my mind on producing a progs.dat for standard/Fitz Quake. In other words, the update will have progs.dat and progs_dp.dat as before.
Quick Question For The SOE Massive.
#69 posted by Shambler [77.97.138.124] on 2008/09/06 14:33:02
Where's the thread for the original SOE??
Word.
Hmm
#70 posted by nonentity [86.146.76.66] on 2008/09/06 15:19:39
On PnF's or QMap?
Qmap I Think...
#71 posted by metlslime [76.126.129.145] on 2008/09/07 03:04:26
Oh....
#72 posted by Shambler [77.97.138.124] on 2008/09/07 11:12:41
Am I a bit behind the times then??
Apart from the crappy skins, I thought it was great - some big old complex maps there...
How Do I Use The Hires Textures
#73 posted by dooomer [65.49.14.82] on 2008/09/08 06:27:52
with aguiRe's glquake and nehquake?
I extracted the "soeskins_glquake.zip" into NSOE, so that I have "x:\game\quake1\Nsoe\textures... I used "gl_exttex 1" in the command line, but nothing different in game.
Any other steps are needed?
Doomer
#74 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.199.19] on 2008/09/08 06:35:31
gl_exttex 1 must be in the autoexec.cfg, not on the command line. You can check if the textures are working by setting gl_exttex to 2, then all external textures appear white.
to improve quality try even further, try:
gl_max_size 1024 (or even 2048)
gl_texquality 2
Thanks Sielwolf,
#75 posted by Dooomer [65.49.14.82] on 2008/09/08 09:28:56
I gave gl_exttex 2 a try in autoexec.cfg, but still no good. The textures are the same, not white as they are supposed to be. There must be something else which is wrong.
Anyway, I just finished this pack a moment ago. What a finale! Bane is really tough. I defeated him totally by chance. I know I cannot repeat this feat every time.
Dooomer
#76 posted by RickyT23 [86.136.54.58] on 2008/09/08 11:54:37
It sounds like the textures are in the right place, I would recommend bringing down the console and typing:
gl_exttex
hit enter, and it will say
"gl_exttex" is "0.00000000" (0)
or something.
If it says "0" then type:
gl_exttex 1
Then you must RE-LOAD THE MAP for it to work! :)
Vondur - I am sorry I haven't had a proper chance to look at this yet, but I had a look the other night at the first level and it definately rocks!! :D
Also I love the guitar music at the start ;P
More later!
Thank You RickyT23!
#77 posted by dooomer [65.49.14.82] on 2008/09/09 09:31:26
I found what the problem is!
I was using a version of aguiRe's glquake from 2006!
Downloaded the latest (2007-8-7), and the hires texture is working now!
Had been under the impression that I was using the latest version of the engine. Very silly of me!
Mac, Darkplaces
#78 posted by grahf [216.163.127.240] on 2008/09/12 00:35:41
That Softpedia link for darkplaces is quite an outdated version. Go here:
http://icculus.org/twilight/darkpl...
Mac binaries are included again in the latest releases. ( http://icculus.org/twilight/darkpl... )
nsoe3 still crashes the latest darkplaces, dunno why.
And now, my rant about oversized maps: it's basically a double whammy of slowdown, first we have a huge open area high r_speeds map, and then I have to run it in darkplaces, which is drastically slower than, say, fitz or stock GL. I commonly get 10fps-slideshow in big intense fights, and even at ~30fps, I lose the split second reflex timing that quake relies on. Granted this is a 4 year old laptop, but it's just kinda funny, I figured it would at least always be good enough for ye olde quake.
I understand Tronyn's predicament entirely - imagining big and grand is a lot of fun, and getting down to quake's limits is a bitch - I like to think big too. The bottom line is, the fewer engines a map runs in, the fewer people will enjoy it.
Uh... We're At It Again...
#79 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/12 11:47:01
...How come all latest releases of DP crash even before starting up? I'm stuck with a 2006-ish release.
#80 posted by Dooomer [65.49.14.94] on 2008/09/12 12:27:56
Grahf, try darkplaces20080910. It loads nsoe3 all right for me.
The Silent, if the "darkplaces.exe" tends to crash, maybe you could try "darkplaces-sdl.exe". Sometimes one can crash but not the other.
Yeah
#81 posted by RickyT23 [86.136.54.58] on 2008/09/12 12:51:52
one DP came out 9th Sep and then another on the 10th September.
Thx, Dooomer.
#82 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/12 13:23:54
But I'm on a Mac, so sdl is the only one for me...
The Silent
#83 posted by Spirit [80.171.20.45] on 2008/09/12 14:09:02
Try launching it from a terminal, it should post a error message there. I have no idea how to do that on a Mac though.
Well, It Does Post The Error Log, Even From The Alias....
#84 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/12 14:41:46
...But I don't get anything out of the tech mumbo-jumbo...
Noob...
Then
#85 posted by Spirit [80.171.20.45] on 2008/09/12 15:21:03
post it for someone else to decipher
Clever. There Ya Go....
#86 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/12 16:15:18
Process: darkplaces-osx-sdl [8420]
Path: /Volumes/ned6_Q/Quake/Quake106 Shareware/DarkPlaces-SDL.app/Conte...
Identifier: darkplaces-osx-sdl
Version: ??? (???)
Code Type: PPC (Translated)
Parent Process: launchd [152]
Date/Time: 2008-09-12 16:09:51.523 +0200
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.4 (9E17)
Report Version: 6
Exception Type: EXC_CRASH (SIGTRAP)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000
Crashed Thread: 0
Thread 0 Crashed:
0 ??? 0x801a308a 0 + 2149200010
1 translate 0xb80b6b00 0xb8000000 + 748288
2 translate 0xb80b7007 0xb8000000 + 749575
3 translate 0xb80d49c0 0xb8000000 + 870848
4 translate 0xb813ce79 spin_lock_wrapper + 1981
Thread 1:
0 ??? 0x800bc4a6 0 + 2148254886
1 ??? 0x800c3c9c 0 + 2148285596
2 translate 0xb818b6ea CallPPCFunctionAtAddressInt + 202886
3 ??? 0x800ed6f5 0 + 2148456181
4 ??? 0x800ed5b2 0 + 2148455858
Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit):
eax: 0x00000000 ebx: 0xb80b6c78 ecx: 0xb7fff9ac edx: 0x801a308a
edi: 0xb8208980 esi: 0x00000005 ebp: 0xb7fff9d8 esp: 0xb7fff9ac
ss: 0x0000001f efl: 0x00000246 eip: 0x801a308a cs: 0x00000007
ds: 0x0000001f es: 0x0000001f fs: 0x00000000 gs: 0x00000037
cr2: 0x85cbc000
Binary Images:
0xb8000000 - 0xb81d7fe7 translate ??? (???) /usr/libexec/oah/translate
Translated Code Information:
NO CRASH REPORT
Is It MumboJumbo Or What?
#87 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/12 16:16:09
:|
#88 posted by RickyT23 [86.136.54.58] on 2008/09/12 16:59:33
spin_lock_wrapper?
Awesome
#89 posted by mwh [118.93.95.47] on 2008/09/15 06:36:01
But yes, absurdly hard. Particularly with the way you lose armour and weapons for each map... once you've tooled up it's much more fun.
(Just finished nsoe3).
F**k It.
#90 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/15 09:22:54
I finally got around the engine issue.
Went back to my sis' PC, fired up Bengt's engine and dove right through SOEIS.
My oh my. Best collection of maps I played in a looong while.
Very satisfying.
But.
This felt, as I said, like a collection of maps. Some collection, you say.
Well, yes, it's a fantastic pack, but I felt like it lacked all the levels for 4 episodes except for the final ones.
Yes, this looks like a pack that has been stripped of everything but the final superbrawl, the story is carried out essentially by the intermission screens(how hateable are these? They take forever to load and read.), the weapons reset every time.
The scope and potential expressed in these maps is awesome, and I shiver to think what could have been with some more maps to beef up the sandwich...
The new monsters feel a lot better than the ones added in SOE(still hate the blue skins for vores and shamblers, though).
And, this was a bit of a surprise for me, but, all the maps worked exceptionally well on my machine (definitely not a High-end one), and I even allowed me the luxury of running past ALL the monsters in NSOE4 and having them kill each other for the pure sake of it. No slowdown. At all. Maybe the Gods of Quake are compensating for the long struggle to get the pack running on my Mac. Oh, well...
The difficulty level is surely a bit pumped up, but you only need to get accustomed to it, I think...
A great, great pack. I only wish I could have seen what happened in beetween....
Intermission Text
#91 posted by negke [82.82.169.128] on 2008/09/15 09:55:11
Yes, intermission text always crawls so slowly. The entire text also appears in the console, though, and it's much more convenient to read it there. In some cases, mainly some of Kona's maps iirc, the text is even too long for a regular centerprint, so some sentences or parts of them are cut off and can only be read in the console anyway.
Yeah
#92 posted by Tronyn [24.78.41.15] on 2008/09/15 11:23:30
I did insist on the player not keeping weapons between maps, although in retrospect maybe that wasn't the best decision - or maybe I should have just let the player keep NG and SSG (in some maps, getting the GL is a gameplay trade-off/player priority choice).
intermission stuff is kinda slow, but there's no way to change that without changing the engine - perhaps this is a feature that engines should include (instaprint all intermission text).
it originally was conceived as a collection of maps, not a linear episode - and ended up as sort of a hybrid between the two, as two other mappers did contribute maps, and I had to split my map (nsoe3/4 was one map originally) into two, and then when I was building nsoe4 by itself, I had to cut of the end of IT and made that nso5, leading to three maps strung together in a linear episode fashion, and two semi-independant contributions that still maintain thematic consistency in texture set/monsters if not in architectural style.
The new version will be out right away - the difficulty has been toned down both in the maps and in the progs, and there are some great new surprises in there too.
Re: Intermission Text Speed
#93 posted by metlslime [76.126.129.145] on 2008/09/15 12:55:46
scr_printspeed. it's available even in stock engines.
About Being Nonlinear
#94 posted by dooomer [65.49.14.94] on 2008/09/16 02:28:46
nsoe3 definitely isn't linear. Actually the first time I play through the pack, in nsoe3, I bypassed the clocktower alltogether.
Finished It Now
#95 posted by mwh [118.93.95.47] on 2008/09/16 07:47:39
I actually found the master you fight in the cage harder than Bane, maybe I just got lucky though.
I found nsoe4 pretty inhumane :) Probably not helped by the appallingly low framerates I was getting...
#96 posted by [Kona] [118.92.142.201] on 2008/09/16 14:04:32
hehe really negke? i never noticed aye :D
ah well, stories are overated in quake
#97 posted by Trinca [89.181.26.20] on 2008/09/16 23:19:47
by the way my map doesn´t have a part that i made :\ a big underground one...
#98 posted by Trinca [89.181.26.20] on 2008/09/16 23:20:12
ops not tha big... two rooms and one secret quad :\
Speaking Of That....
#99 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/17 08:46:04
... I loved the reworking with the new monsters... Quite a lot.
When are you going to rerelease it with the subterranean piece? ;)
You could put in another coupla rooms to spice things up...
I love this map...
100 Th Post.
#100 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/17 08:55:15
Just for the sake of it.

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