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Posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/28 00:08:55

I've done a few different things this year to try to draw interest in single player Quake to multiplayer-only types to expand some horizons and diversify things a little.
Something I am wondering ... what are the main motivating factors to make a single player map .. as in "why do you do it".
Another way of phrasing it: if you make a single player map, what gives you the greatest satisfaction.
Is it if the map is downloaded a lot? Is it personal attention or emails from those that appreciate the effort? The enjoyment of finishing something nice?
Is it more important to you that your map gets played/downloaded or more important that someone sought out your map and read the readme and got a little bit of a personal connection with "the author."?

Well
#1 posted by DaZ [80.41.174.81] on 2006/09/28 03:26:23
I think the main reason for me why I prefer single player mapping is that deathmatch has been mastered already really, in Quake at least everyone plays the classic dm maps aerowalk, spinev2, ultrav etc because they are the best to play, and because dm players seem to hate mods that add new stuff to dm (weapons, gametypes etc) you cant really improve on those maps.
With single player, you have a whole open vista of what you can create,and you are not bound as heavily by layout, gametype, flow etc as you are in DM. And due to the highly moddable nature of single player you can always do something fresh and cool and players will thank you for it.
for SP you have Quoth, Nehahra, OUM, and so many other great modded sp experiences I cant possibly name them all, they all add something new and cool and push single player quake forward. With deathmatch I can name maybe 2 mods that did that, Team fortress and Capture the flag, and who plays them (for quake) these days? Its all about deathmatch in Quake still, and I think that will not change.
So short answer for me would have to be "Creativity is very limited in DM, whereas in SP you can pretty much do what you want".
#2 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/09/28 04:08:18
I agree with Daz nobody in these days play new dm maps :) and there are so many good teamplay maps and people just play TB3.
About me and mapping,wel i now i dtill suck a lot in mapping, i´m noob but what i like more when i finish a map is feedback i love to see coments in this forum, all feedbacks bad or nice, is one of main reasons that make me map! i´m not looking for a job in the industry... i love my country and i will not leave it for a job! i map for Quake becouse i love this game and i have to fill my free times at work :|, mapping is fun and i will not map for anyother game then Quake...i dont others games...
ehehe i must say this!
1º thks Vondur for making me start mapping
2º thks JPL and Negke for not letting me quit when i was totaly noob... sm109 and sm110 :\
sm109 best map ever!!!
http://trinca.no.sapo.pt/maps/sm10...
:)
P.S--> u guys will much more maps from me! hope allways better...
This Is Important To Me...
#3 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/09/28 04:17:54
getting to play my map as intended. If I make a DM map, nobody will play it and I can only play it against bots. That's not interesting for me. With a single player map you can play the map as intended, and possibly with some friends if you get some coop going on.
Also, as Daz said, you can be more creative with SP maps because the rules as to what you can and can't do are less defined.
Finally, if I enjoy the map, that's enough for me. If other people enjoy it then that makes me feel better. With a dm map, I can't just play it whenever I like, and because of the lack of servers running custom dm maps (especially new ones that aren't aerowalk etc.) there is little chance anyone else will get to enjoy it either.
I
#4 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/28 11:15:30
map because i enjoy the moments of trying out some new polyhedrons and see it comes out in some kind of landscape. Some patience can make a groovy place to be in. Sometimes I'm so preoccupied I get the feeling I live there.
I have no pretension with my mapping, it's pure curiosity. But sometimes, with an interesting layout, it can push me to create a a fine level.
The feedback is also important, for seeing how others experience the map. And strangely enough this is often different than what the mapper was planning.
But I remember when making the abandon I was working completely on my own. And I had the idea I was making something new. Made me rather brassed to see that the levels were not as good as people expected. But that's the othe side of the line. My point was to get a good chainmap running, not to be blamed for the quality of the levels.
Hhmmmm
#5 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/09/29 01:33:55
Well, I think most of us are mapping more for "self" satisfaction (to see what you are able to create by your own..) rather than waiting for some recognition from others mappers.
I'm not saying it is not important to be recognized as a good mapper, I just think it is not the ultimate goal in my personal life.
So I map because TV program sucks in general, and I prefer to map instead of being lobotomized by real-sucking-TV-shows.... o_O
I also map to exercize my "creativity", even it is at a low level compared to the very best mappers I can on func_...
I think it is always satisfying to achieve a level and share it with other mappers/players: having feedback is very important to improve yourself, even if you are flamed. All comments, even sad and sarcastics are good for self-learning.
I do not have the pretention to become a pro-mapper of the industry: I already have a good job, so why would I change of job ?
I only map because I love Quake, and I want to participate to its survive... Regarding new FPS (e.g Doom3, HL2, COD2, Prey, etc.., etc..) Quake looks old... Nevertheless, it is always enjoyable to play, even original Quake Id levels.
I also map because having my own project is a challenge against technology limits (i.e VIS runtime to manage...) and my magination limits..
I also map because I learn a lot from other mappers: latest example is the skip tool use in order to create glasses (PS: than your tutorial rocks !)
I guess all of us have very good reasons for mapping.. here was mine :P
The Bottom Line
#6 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/09/29 02:56:37
for me has and always will be that I map because I enjoy mapping. This comes before what kind of map, what game or whatever. Mind you, because of this I tend to wander from game to game sometimes, and not finish maps all too quickly. But honestly it's a hobby and I don't always have the time or inclination to do as much as I'd like. If people play my maps and like them, that's great -- I appreciate the feedback. But typically the motivation comes from having some sort of idea and seeing it realized via a game engine, and more of a personal satisfaction than anything else.
Woot
#7 posted by Vondur [195.128.95.36] on 2006/09/29 05:05:08
when i used to map, i loved sp better over dm for exactly the same reason than stated, people will PLAY it at least once.
another reason is that I love making really atmospheric virtual environments which captivate you by their look and feel.
and last but not least is of course I loved receiving uber-rare fanmail ;) it's the only force that pushed me seriously forward actually ;)
Hmmm.
#8 posted by Shambler [82.38.197.28] on 2006/09/29 08:54:28
Although not applicable to me, this is actually a really good thread - it's certainly a refreshing change from the previous tedious shite threads you've posted.
Obviously.
#9 posted by Shambler [82.38.197.28] on 2006/09/29 09:01:49
I am not a mapper.
But I think that there are two important motivational aspects to any creative process:
Firstly, enjoying doing it - enjoying creating something.
Secondly, that people will "use" it - look at it, play it, read it, listen to it, whatever.
This doesn't mean that people will praise it, or praise the creator, I don't think there is any need for such ego-boosting there. And the creator should know if it's good. Just that people will be using it is enough I think.
I don't think it's necessary to have both of these motivational factors, but having one or the other would seem pretty crucial.
Hehe ... Thanks Shambler!
#10 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/29 13:37:53
/me observes non-mapping moderator flame me and then answer question directed to single player mappers.
certainly a refreshing change from the previous tedious shite threads you've posted
Howz about we go delete teh Nokia phone spam instead of flaming me?
Thanks in advance!
I Map
#11 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/09/29 15:22:11
because I enjoy the proccess. I like the feeling when I load my map in game and see that all lines and dots in editor are now turned into something "real", the things you can walk through.
Also everyone likes feedback. If anyone tells me that he/she likes the things that I do, I will always get some positive emotion and a reason to continue what I do. Even if the feedback is negative, I can always use the critiques for improving my skills.
And the third: I simply love Quake =)
Fun And Rewarding
#12 posted by Orl [70.104.89.85] on 2006/09/29 18:27:12
Mapping is something that came natural to me, and I have loved it ever since. Just the idea of being able to create almost anything in a 3d editor, and then be able to play it by yourself or with friends, just amazing to me. And not only is mapping for Quake fun, its also a challenge. You have to make it interesting, with good detail and gameplay, all while avoiding the many qbsp, light, vis, and engine errors and limits that come with it. Thats no easy task. And lastly, Quake is just awesome. Period. The day the Earth dies is the day when Quake dies.
Basically
#13 posted by NotoriousRay [68.33.252.95] on 2006/09/30 05:30:23
I map because its the perfect blend of technical ability and creativity to suit me personally. I stick with Quake because it's really the only game that has captured my attention enough to do anything other than dabble with editors/etc.
Also, what biff said.
Hmm
#14 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2006/10/02 11:38:41
I map because...
wait, what?
;)
Well
#15 posted by ijed [201.236.133.151] on 2006/10/04 09:36:47
i map mainly for myself, though its also a way to make something i personally want to make without some prick looking over my shoulder pissing and moaning about some miniscule detail :)
as to dm vs sp - although i like the contained map style of dm sp will always be my passion - killing bots pales after a while and even in the best maps against real players you're only going to play it for a while before you get bored. dm lacks a feeling of progression so isn't too much of an interest to me, whilst although sp lacks the randomness of having someone else in the gamespace doing thier own thing you can always (and fucking should, you lazy goit) include coop.
as to how many people play / download it . . . i'd prefer five people played it who got a real kick out of it, rather than 500 generics just having a quick runthrough and then wiping it from thier hd - i can name maps that i first played years ago and still have stored in around three or four places, and still go back to now and again.
Well Well
#16 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2006/10/04 16:51:40
ijed said: dm lacks a feeling of progression
I think people who prefer DM tend to focus on themselves, trying to either a) win or b) get better so that they can win. It's like fitness but at a computer game.
With SP it appears that people who prefer it focus more on feelings of having "completed something" or "beaten something." Entertainment, maybe.
Personally, I prefer DM because it doesn't end. In a way, it's a form of self-improvement. The bad side is that it (I love irony) doesn't end.
:)
Hmmmm...
#17 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2006/10/04 18:14:53
...my initial motivation for SP mapping was very similar to madfox. The chance to mould a "truly" 3D environment, and stretch the imagination into reality (albeit virtual) was the starting point. I wasn't particularly fussed about anyone else playing it until the mob from QMap started beta testing my first full level. For me now, beta feedback and demos are one of the most rewarding outcomes of mapping. A month before Rumours was released, Von released ZedII and I decided my soon to be released offering was woefully inadequate. However, I judged it to be better than quite a few first releases I'd seen so I pushed on. Feedback following release consisted of a few differing opinions on QMap but more importantly 3 separate reviews. All three provided useful ideas for implementation in future levels and recommended that the download was worth it. I beamed for a fortnight!
The close work with one beta tester made me realize that a large part of my satisfaction stemmed from working closely with other people, that these people were scattered across the globe made it even more satisfying. So, apart from forays into speed mapping (the Wind Tunnels remake and Rubicondom) and competition pieces (Dismembered Crates and Usher Recompiled), which all garnered positive feedback, I've fed off the close interaction with other mappers (and coders/graphic artists) rather than public response.
Having said that, I was terribly chuffed when the QuakeOne crew asked if they could load qtdm3 up on to their server. I was until that time resigned to the fact that the four DM levels being shipped with the current SP project were merely academic exercises. The response from QuakeOne tipped the scales, in that the four levels will definitely be included with the final SP release.
So what gives me satisfaction? Quality beta feedback, constructive reviews, project based interpersonal involvement and yes, the recognition of players.

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