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Posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/12 14:40:28

Has anyone here considered making a map with an atrium where you walk thru a Easy/Normal/Hard/Nightmare teleporter and then come to a 4 level tiered area with 128 teleporters (32 per tier)
The tiers would be named "Base Maps", "Medieval Maps", "Space Maps", "Egyptian Maps" and as you walk in front of each teleporter, it says the name of the map like "This teleporter takes you to MCOLONY by Author made January 12, 1998"
That way map packs that do not require a progs.dat or special sounds/models could be released in sets of 128 maps (plus readme.txt's of course) in big zip files that decompress to quake/mapset-alpha-1 and then someone could start quake.exe -game mapset-alpha-1 +map gateway and have an absolute blast.
Just a thought. If someone were to make such a map and with 128 teleporters leading to a non-existant map "8-charsx.bsp" with blank message "32 characters of centerprint times 3 lines of this" I'd do the rest :)

Well It Sounds Like A Reasonable Idea, But
#1 posted by Kinn [86.128.63.88] on 2005/09/12 15:14:04
This would only be worth doing if all the maps returned you back to the gateway map when you finished them - which they don't. Unless you hax0r the .bsp to change the trigger_changelevel, (and it's never a good idea to muck around with a map like that without the author's permission).
You'd probably want to contact the map authors before you release their stuff in a big compilation pack too.
Same
#2 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/12 16:50:31
I'm only suggesting this for maps which say "you can redistribute the bsp as long as you include the readme.txt" or "you can do whatever with this for non-commericial use" or "this map make freely be distributed over the internet"
About 75% of all custom maps I have seen, and I've read a lot of readmes, say one of the 3 terms listed above.
>Unless you hax0r the .bsp to change the
>trigger_changelevel, (and it's never a good >idea to muck around with a map like that
>without the author's permission).
I can write a program to scan maps to determine the "next intermission map". The operating gamedir folder would have a clone of the gateway map as start.bsp or e1m5.bsp to eliminate this problem.
Baker:
#3 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/12 19:10:39
if it's going to be a seperate mod directory, you might as well include a custom progs.dat at that point -- it's cleaner than what you're suggesting.
#4 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/12 20:11:33
I had not thought of that. That would be much smoother.
A concept: if such a map had screenshots of the map above every teleporter and maybe a texture indicating the name and author (much easier to identify one map from another than having to walk up to each teleporter) ... how many colors are available to work with?
256? Or is it more, or is it limited to the Quake palette (assuming hi-res textures are not used, or making their use optional so this concept would work in any engine, even the WinQuake types)?
Baker
#5 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.14] on 2005/09/12 21:50:35
256? Or is it more, or is it limited to the Quake palette (assuming hi-res textures are not used, or making their use optional so this concept would work in any engine, even the WinQuake types)?
Take a look at this -- it may help answer the question.
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376...
There are two textures in this picture. The one on top is the original from Evillair's e6 texture set. The second is the same texture with the Quake1 indexed palette applied in Photoshop6. There is a bit of quality degradation, but it is still a usefull texture that would look good in Quake.
What I am saying is, the palette does not limit you to just 256 colors. The application that you use is limited to 256 colors to build the picture into a more or less accurate representation of the original. Depending on the process the application uses, you get better or worse results in the translation. The palette colors are used in close combinations that fool the eye into seeing them as a greater degree of colors than is in the original palette. A process called dithering.
Also, That Second Picture
#6 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.14] on 2005/09/12 21:53:41
is half the size of the original texture, so there is more degradation of quality here than you would normally get in PS6. (CS2 is fucking amazing at doing this).
Map Editor?
#7 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 02:14:50
I think I'm going to try to make a (not very good) simple, ugly flat map with screenshots of maps above each teleporter.
But, I've never tried to make a map before, but I'm very solid with most the Quake fundamentals:
What's the best map editor available? Worldcraft 1.6? What do the speed mappers use?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Especially a link to a good "first map" link.
I'm going for function over form. I just want it to work and do it's job, not trying to do any architecture, just a blocky map that serves the purpose.
Baker
#8 posted by starbuck [82.40.164.126] on 2005/09/14 02:50:44
Yeah, I'd say you should go for Worldcraft 1.6. I've made most of my speedmaps in Valve Hammer Editor, which is a later version of Worldcraft, basically. Hammer is better but it needs some fiddling to get running with Quake maps.
So I'd recommend WC 1.6 for getting started the fastest, but if you want a more modern editor, you should get Valve Hammer from here:
http://collective.valve-erc.com/
Heres some longwinded advice to getting it working:
you need to get Qonverge, a utility set from Riot:
http://www.icculus.org/homepages/r...
http://www.icculus.org/homepages/r...
you need you run the 'wadconv.exe' program on your textures from the command line like "wadconv -wad2hl idbase" to input a wad called idbase.wad and export a half-life format wad called idbase.hlwad in the same directory. This is because hammer is for editing Half Life. You might have to rename your idbase.hlwad file to SOMETHING.wad so it shows up when you browse for textures to add new Wads.
You also need to get a Quake.fgd file from somewhere. The one in your worldcraft 1.6 folder will do fine. You choose it in the game profile page that pops up when you first start Hammer.
Worldcraft
#9 posted by bambuz [130.233.220.23] on 2005/09/14 03:00:52
wc is ok'ish, use czg's .fgd file (czg.spawnpoint.org) and aguirre's compile utils
(user.tninet.se/~xir870k/).
The worldcraft inbuilt help tutorial is good for your first simple map.
Then there's gtkradiant that I think has a somewhat larger user base here.
Regarding Screenshots
#10 posted by Tron [202.7.183.131] on 2005/09/14 04:33:48
You won't have any problems making screenshots look perfect as a small texture in game (so long as you light them sensibly) because of the obvious fact that all the screenshots would already be using the quake palette.
Unless I am missing something obvious?
Tron
#11 posted by Kinn [81.130.212.78] on 2005/09/14 05:23:45
As long as you take the screenshot in software quake (dos or winquake), then yes, the shots will be 8bit images in the q1 palette.
And
#12 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/09/14 06:16:13
even if the screens have been taken in a GL engine, that the pre-AA texels are based on the palette means they'll convert pretty well anyway. Assuming you don't seriously fuxx0r with them first.
Hey Baker U Are Crazy...
#13 posted by Trinca [194.65.31.249] on 2005/09/14 08:21:14
this will be a real hard work :) but if u going for it :p good luck will be great!!! another thing add a close teleport wend map is finish... :)
Baker
#14 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/09/14 09:27:18
If you go with WC 1.6, and you may as well since it probably has the greatest variety of Quake tutorials with the possible exception of BSP, then you will probably want to check out this site sometime:
http://www.planetquake.com/worldcr...
I've never used WC, but even so I've found it useful as a reference, plus it appears to have extensive tutorials for WC.
Baker:
#15 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.159] on 2005/09/14 10:25:22
if this will be the only map you build
if it doesn't need to be technically perfect
if you don't mind getting used of a weird but supereasy editor
then go for QuArK. I think it is much easier to map with this :>
But I also wish to have never started playing with that editor since switching to a "professional" one is really hard. Make sure to disable "floating point coords" in the options ;)
Don't Listen
#16 posted by Kinn [86.128.40.82] on 2005/09/14 10:29:59
to him.
(it's a trap ^_~)
Spirit
#17 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.6.221] on 2005/09/14 10:40:57
I think switching between -any- editors is difficult. The only switch I ever managed was DeathMatch Maker to Worldcraft, back in 98. If any of you ever used DMM you'll understand why.
I've tried my hand with Radiant and QED but nomatter how many tutorials I read I just can't get comfortable with either. I guess certain editors just click with certain people.
WC 1.6 Vs. Hammer 3.4 Vs. Radiant
#18 posted by jsHcK [69.198.128.221] on 2005/09/14 12:04:38
Worldcraft seems less stable (crash-prone) than Hammer. However, some people have a difficult time overcoming the removal of the in-editor texture brightness slider.
Is anyone here familiar with the legal ins and outs of mapping for Q1 with the various versions of WC/Hammer? Is Radiant a better choice based on legal technicalities?
Thanks For Info
#19 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 12:10:26
That's a lot of useful information, the tutorials being the most important. Thanks.
(Heh, and more feedback than I had expected so soon.)
Trina
#20 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 12:12:35
> Hey Baker U Are Crazy...
Yes, I certainly am ;)
Trinca
#21 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 12:13:09
Err ... I meant Trinca. No editing :(
Not Nearly So Hard As I Feared - Thanks RPG
#22 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 12:45:34
Thanks for that link. That is exactly what I needed.
Just Learn To Use Radiant
#23 posted by Kinn [86.128.40.82] on 2005/09/14 13:07:29
the latest version has full q1 support, it's still being updated, the vast majority of us here use it, and you can go onto IRC and slap SPoG around if it starts playing up.
Simple.
JsHck
#24 posted by Kinn [86.128.40.82] on 2005/09/14 13:10:13
legally, no-one will give a flying hoot what editor you use to make quake levels.
Best Way To Get Textures Into A Wad File?
#25 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 14:01:00
What is the best tool way to get textures into a .wad file? Something from aguire's site?
I'm a little weak on wad files, never had a reason to work with them before.
I see lots of tools for this, but don't know enough to make a choice. Is there is a non-DOS box tool?
TexMex
#26 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/09/14 14:12:41
http://www.planetquake.com/texmex/
Worldcraft Prefabs Site?
#27 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 19:56:35
Any good sites with prefab files or .map files for Quake. I've only found one so far due to how awkward it is to Google for "Quake" without getting 2, 3, 4 results and if I exclude the sequels ... well, many of those sites with prefabs have them for multiple Quakes.
...
#28 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 19:59:18
(I know where to find full .map files, such as those included with the dkt1000 maps ... trying to locate preassembled objects like statues).
Just A Thought...
#29 posted by metlslime [69.181.44.163] on 2005/09/14 22:17:12
ideally, each gateway would be styled to match the theme of the level it leads to.
I've Actually Come Rather Far ...
#30 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 22:22:08
... but I want to stay within the realm of mapper 101 (or maybe 102) ;)
Speaking of which, how did you put a player model in Eagle1? I thought that was one of the best ideas ever and something I wish more makers did (the Quake guy who told you "secret information")
I like the Zerstorer Hell Knight statues, myself.
Can standard models be easily imported into a map as fixed objects?
Yeah,
#31 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.3] on 2005/09/14 23:03:16
Can standard models be easily imported into a map as fixed objects?
I did that with a speedmap earler this summer where the last room and the objects in it (two Scags) were done in Blender to test out the concept of CGI to brush conversion.
The method involves using Q3map2 the Quake2 utility.
AquiRe's tools also makes it possible to compile a q3 or Q2 map with TxQbsp with a simple command line (-q2map), and most importantly retains the accuracy of the vertices. So if you want to import prefabs, feel free to do it from Q3 and Q2 sources as well as from Quake.
Note - Vis is not as forgiving as TXQBSP in regard to processing model vertices.
However, Vis is not as forgiving as TxQBSP, and a fully vised .bsp
Q3map2 Of Course
#32 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.3] on 2005/09/14 23:04:33
is a Q3 Arena utility.
Disregard That Last Sentence In #31
#33 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.3] on 2005/09/14 23:06:57
it was meant to be stricken. It's late. I'm going to bed.
Thx
#34 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 23:27:07
I managed to Google this board from your posts and found something that might not be ideal, but easier for what I know
mdl2map
http://www.ftp-sunet-se.lkams.kern...
At least I think this might do the trick.
Doesn't Work Well
#35 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/14 23:51:47
mdl2map does not do that great of job
Player Model
#36 posted by metlslime [69.181.44.163] on 2005/09/15 01:20:34
This was done using a "viewthing" but it also required a custom progs.dat to finish the job.
Check out the "teaching old progs.dat new tricks" thread for ideas on how to actually do this right -- probably involves an info_null.
Concept Download, How To Keep Within 16 MB?
#37 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/19 00:02:19
Here is a download of a concept map I made with 40 teleporters in a stadium-like format.
betagate.bsp (zip format, 1.6 MB)
http://s91840528.onlinehome.us/bet...
After discovering some limitations I need to keep in consideration, I need more information before I continue working on it. (So it isn't textured properly and otherwise looks unpleasant).
It has to be viewed in r_fullbright 1 at this point.
The map requires -heapsize 32768 ... something I want to avoid at all costs.
1. How do I keep the map usable without a heapsize/mem parameter (i.e., Win/GL default 16MB)?
I may have way too many lights on this map.
If I cut down on lights will that help?
2. Or do I need to mostly focus on polygon count?
3. I've discovered winquake is terrible for big open areas (r_speeds are bad). Maybe if I work on the polygon count that will help or are more open area'ed maps just impossible for WinQuake.
#38 posted by negke [85.176.89.151] on 2005/09/19 06:03:15
don't try to fix a leak with a huge box around the map - this is the worst thing one can do!
it's not a good idea to put all the exits in just one big area, either - not only because of the lack of vis blocking, but also concerning the different texture themes of the other maps.
you don't have to start cutting down on lights, but there are way too many flashing lights in the map, just use regular lights (and more consistently).
i think it would be better (at first) to build smaller rooms, one for all maps of each episode, or something like that - this would result in a lower poly count and easier navigation for the player.
Consider
#39 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/09/19 14:51:07
Making the map like a real start map... Different passages for different themes, and little gimmicks in places. Think start.bsp!
Efdm9 Decals Are Nice
#40 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/19 15:41:53
... but if you attack the window it bleeds.
Hmmm ... I have some ideas. I like the decals thing.
Glass That Doesn't Bleed
#41 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2005/09/19 19:23:25
Try this:
http://www.planetquake.com/quakela...
Seems to have all the info you need (an example map is there too).
And About A Year Later ...
#42 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/05 02:54:47
The Undergate
A map I made based pretty much on the Underworldfan site's classic Hall of Fame, recent reviews and recommended maps with QuakeC assistance by RocketGuy and Lardarse.
Features:
1. Screenshot and teleporter for every map.
2. Skill level selector buttons
3. Author name, Map name and map title for every map
4. Underworld site rating or Hall of Fame rank where applicable.
Screenshots:
http://www.quakeone.com/q1files/im...
http://www.quakeone.com/q1files/im...
http://www.quakeone.com/q1files/im...
http://www.quakeone.com/q1files/im...
Download of map and required progs.dat only:
http://www.quake-1.com/files/maps/...
The Undergate map goes in c:\quake\id1\maps and the included progs.dat (and the QuakeC source is included).
The progs.dat was coded by RocketGuy and Lardarse (except the map overrides, which I coded) and has several nice touches:
1. Fish count fix
2. Returns to undergate.bsp upon completion of a map, except where it is a sequence of maps
3. Notification of skill level upon spawning in the undergate map
There is a thread with some more information on the map at:
http://www.quakeone.com/forums/sho...
More or less, the map works as a nice user friendly map selector that I hope can make it easier for trying out single player maps.
On the above thread there is a download link for the map and the supported maps, the only maps used/displayed in the Undergate are ones where the readme.txt didn't have text stating the archive name couldn't be changed or something else that would preclude inclusion.
If you are an author and I made a mistake with the readme.txt, please let me know.
There is one map that did have a readme.txt stating the archive name couldn't be changed, Alcatraz by Tyrann, and I emailed him for permission only to find out he had GPL'd the map.
Oo
#43 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2006/09/05 11:30:29
nice!
123
#44 posted by opo [200.72.211.65] on 2008/02/15 05:27:20
123

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