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Posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/28 01:27:13

Hey guys! I'm a mapper from way back when. I became a Mac user awhile back and recently decided to start hacking on good old Quake again.
You may not think I'm insane yet, but wait! There's more...
I've jury rigged a 3D modeling program (Cheetah) through Javascript and a little brain power to work as a basically functional level editor program.
I've also been working on my own set of Quake compiler tools (based from the id source, of course). I've got a bunch of info on my blog if you're interested.
http://wantonhubris.com/blog/categ...
Anyway, just wanted to say "Hi!" and get swimming in these here waters a little.

Trying To Figure
#1 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.121] on 2007/10/28 06:37:20
out which old school mapper you are. On the Wanton Hubris page you identify as Warren and not only do you map, but you create editors for mapping, so I'm guessing Warren Marshall which would make you one hell of a good mapper. In that case, welcome back a hundred fold, and I'm looking forward with what you can come up with in this old game now we have some outrageously good tools for it.
Er, That Last Sentence Construction
#2 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.121] on 2007/10/28 06:40:30
sucked at the end. I'm blaming it on beer and a four hour eighteen minute long world series game.
Thanks!
#3 posted by WIllem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/28 10:51:02
Yeah, Warren Marshall (aka Taskmaster, in the old days).
So which tools are really the ones that people flock to these days? I've been out of the Quake scene for a long time. I'm using a Mac as my primary machine so I know that means I'll either be writing my own tools or I'll be running them in Parallels.
Anyway, still just getting my feet wet (again) and hope to have something to show eventually.
Are people mostly into single player maps these days? Those are obviously tougher to do, but I can't imagine that the multiplayer scene is much to write home about anymore ... right?
Ooh!
#4 posted by Spirit [80.171.83.223] on 2007/10/28 11:32:45
Welcome back Taskmaster! :)
aguirRe's building tools are the defacto standard: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Welcome Back
#5 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/10/28 11:45:26
Good to see an old face make a reappearance. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
First thing you should probably do is check out some of the more recent maps to see styles and trends in mapping and also what mappers and more modern compilers/engines are able to do now... well, it still looks like Quake, but some of the levels released in the last few years have been amazing in terms of design as well as pushing the engine to new limits.
As for tools, we are all pretty much using the same stuff we were way back when. Radiant, Worldcraft, BSP to map with for the most part, but the compile tools and engines have improved a lot*.
*engines not neccessarily "improved" with fancy graphical features. Limits have been raised, bugs fixed, tweaks, optimisations and useful features both for players and mappers have been added to the more popular engines in addition to the odd graphical improvement here and there. DarkPlaces is a bit different though, and does all kinds of crazy ass shit in addition to raising limits and adding useability features and commands.
And yeah, it's mostly SP/COOP these days.
Oh, And...
#6 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/10/28 11:50:20
Check out this page for info about Quake on the mac: http://developer.chaoticbox.com/qu...
Wow, Great Link!
#7 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/28 11:52:32
Thanks! I wonder why that never showed up when I first started looking into Quake on the Mac.
Ahh well.
Welcome Back
#8 posted by Shambler [82.47.200.179] on 2007/10/28 12:34:21
Sorry I am having a senior moment and can't remember what you made, but I remember it being good...
Who was that other Mac mapper? Junior....from Iceland?? I really liked his space DM map, played that loads with bots.
Not The Warren Marshall
#9 posted by nitin [124.168.54.243] on 2007/10/28 13:01:12
from epic?
#10 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/28 13:23:51
Yeah, I work at Epic Games. Level design is my job and ... well, apparently my hobby as well.
#11 posted by Trinca [89.180.24.134] on 2007/10/28 13:47:56
hehe welcome back to best game ever ;)
Warren
#12 posted by nitin [124.168.54.243] on 2007/10/28 14:39:47
welcome back!
some quake maps from you would be great indeed.
Old Skool!
#13 posted by Bal [86.217.85.101] on 2007/10/28 19:09:17
Welcome back. =)
Shambler maybe you're thinking of jvox no? I think he was a mac mapper, don't think JuniorJr was though.
Welcome Back To Q1
#14 posted by ijed [190.20.84.152] on 2007/10/29 02:50:18
Looking forward to your maps.
Hello Willem
#15 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.114.187] on 2007/10/29 08:13:04
I hope you weren't trying to keep a low profile... if so, HeadThump blew your cover in his first post! :)
I daresay most of us will remember you for your Quake maps, your work with MPQ, or that new-fangled Unreal stuff (all of the above in my case). Glad to see you're getting back into Quake editing... it's hard to resist the temptation, even after 10+ years, isn't it?
I'm not a Mac man myself, I use GtkRadiant 1.40 for Quake editing these days, along with aguirRe's compile tools. FitzQuake is the engine of choice for single-player stuff (thanks metlslime... you guys certainly are overachievers!)
Oh and Bal, JuniorJr was indeed a Mac man, he used Quiver to build all his stuff. I haven't heard from him for aeons though.
Any other crusty old-timers lurking around here? If so, say hello!
Ahhh.
#16 posted by Shambler [82.47.200.179] on 2007/10/29 09:37:18
Any other crusty old-timers lurking around here? If so, say hello!
We see you lurking there, Frib....;)
Oh Come On Now
#17 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.114.187] on 2007/10/29 09:52:43
I post at least once every few weeks (or months, whatever)... surely that elevates me from lurker status up to almost-but-not-quite-zero contribution status!
Frib Is Less Of A Crusty Old Lurker Than You, Shambla
#18 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/10/29 10:01:50
Emphasis on the crusty old
#19 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/29 10:44:14
"I hope you weren't trying to keep a low profile... if so, HeadThump blew your cover in his first post! :)"
Ha! Well, not a low profile necessarily but definitely a disconnect from work. Quake editing/hacking is one of my hobbies. :)
There really is just something about the crusty old Quake engine that appeals to me. It's grouchy and uncooperative sometimes but what it does, it does really well. It's like a comfortable old pair of jeans or something.
"FitzQuake is the engine of choice for single-player stuff (thanks metlslime... you guys certainly are overachievers!) "
Thanks, I'll take a look at that. Since I'm on a Mac I'll probably just use the base engine since, I'm assuming, that's my only real option.
#20 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/29 10:45:45
Oh, hey Mr. Fribbles! Good to see some old school names still kicking around.
Warren
#21 posted by nitin [124.168.114.157] on 2007/10/29 12:15:11
dont think aguire's engine works on mac systems, but otherwise that's excellent too.
Retinal Tear!!
#22 posted by Shambler [82.47.200.179] on 2007/10/30 09:47:08
I finally worked it out. Proper old skool business. Makes Frib look new-school.
I did one of my first and shittest speedruns on that level, entirely unsuitable for it. Good level at the time though.
Welcome!
#23 posted by starbuck [82.41.206.175] on 2007/10/30 10:56:59
I remember retinal tear well dude, good map. Looking forward to seeing some newfangled maps from you!
Also, just read your blog... you've already got some features I've never seen before in a Quake editor, the mesh features (you stole that from Unreal didn't you ;) ) and the lighting system with the inner and outer radii look very cool.
Do you plan on releasing your modifications to your editor at some point? Enough of these features and it's going to be worth it to buy Cheetah! Um, but probably not a mac, fortunately I've already got one.
#24 posted by [213.153.113.27] on 2007/10/30 11:16:36
DarkPlaces works on Mac, supposedly
#25 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/30 11:59:57
What would people require to get the best use out of a release of the LIGHT tool, for example? I'm happy to release it but I wonder what the accepted standard is.
Do I need to heavily comment my changes in the source code, or just release it and write some basic docs, or ...?
What's the expectation set?
As for Cheetah, well, hmmm. It's a great program for modeling and the fact that I've configured it to basically function as a Quake editor shouldn't be taken to mean it's nicely suited to that task. It works but it's clunky in a lot of ways. I've simply chosen to ignore the clunk and see the goodness. Heh.
I'd love a proper Quake editor on the Mac. Something like Radiant but it needs to run natively as a Universal app.
#26 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/30 12:02:11
Hah, and yeah, Retinal Tear. I was playing through that map again a few weeks ago and had several of those "What was I THINKING?!" moments. But you live, you learn, you know. :)
#27 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/30 12:04:04
My other Quake1 maps would be "Eye Socket" (my first and not so good) and Warehouse (or "Warehaus") which was my last but definitely the better of the 3.
Warehouse has a special place in my heart due to every single reviewer pointing out the one side of the one crate that I failed to align correctly. A scar on my brain that has never fully healed.
He-he-he!
#28 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/30 12:32:25
Thats not such a bad thing to have comments on^^
Light tools
I like there to be clear user orientated instructions with utils. AguirRe's utils work well but you have to look through files to find the command options (when you do they are pretty much easy to use and understand though)
Coloured lights
I have tried to get coloured lights working in a quake level and it has so far seemed more trouble than its worth (or I guess everyone would be doing it)
I mean what are the best utils to use, engines to use and more importantly what Keys/Values would you use to get a decent colour??!
I guess if someone could present an easy solution for people like me it would be well recieved!
I looked at your site, and I dont use Macs but it looked cool, I like the extra light options outlined, but I think you can do most of that with other utils.
I give you my humble opinion as a user who doesnt do programmming. Hope it helps ;)
Cheers
#29 posted by grahf [71.206.185.91] on 2007/10/30 19:35:54
I do most of my mapping on a mac. I'm interested in what you're working on, but I'd be wary of reinventing the wheel. pOx's tools and engines are still the gold standard for mac quake editing, as far as I'm concerned (link was pointed out a few posts back). Since I see you are exporting your brushes from a 3d modeller, you might be interested to look at pOx's eUtils release, as he made an obj2map exporter.
For me, a necessary prerequisite of any lighting tool is tyrlite compatibility, as my maps are heavily invested in its syntax of lighting key/values (i.e. "wait" for fade distance, "style" for falloff formula, and "_color R G B" for colored lights). It looks like you've created some interesting options, but I'm a little unclear how they'd work without seeing some documentation. (as I said, be wary of reinventing the wheel)
GTKRadiant 1.4 and Darkplaces works fine for me, and are probably the most "advanced" quake tools I know of on the mac, but then again, I don't have an intel mac, so your mileage may vary.
Nice to see someone giving mac quake some love.
#30 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/30 20:14:41
Thanks for the info.
I'm not really concerned about re-inventing the wheel on anything as I'm really just doing this for fun. Writing the code for this stuff is almost as fun as using it for me.
I tried to get GTKRadiant running before but I can't be bothered with X11 and whatever else needs to be installed to make it work. I just want something native and Intel, dammit. :)
I suppose it doesn't exist. Ah well.
#31 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/30 20:16:23
Oh, and back to Dark Places. Do I have to compile it for myself to make it work on Mac or is there a download somewhere on the site? I couldn't see a Mac native download anywhere. Just a Windows/Linux binary with source code included.
DP Mac Binaries
#32 posted by Spirit [213.39.214.176] on 2007/10/30 20:23:23
They are inside all the recent packages.
Be aware that Darkplaces is not a "foolproof" engine so for testing/debugging one should use a glquake derivate or use something like Wine (Parallels?) to run aguirRe's glquake or Fitzquake.
˜jXmacPC User Here...
#33 posted by JohnXmas [83.78.54.79] on 2007/10/30 23:15:52
Mac (moreover Intel chip) + OS X Quake tools ain't soo much :S
Old tools mentionned above are OS9 (classic)'s tools :O
You need some STEAMCAKE!
#34 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/30 23:21:05
Yeah, I'm getting that impression. :P Thanks.
Petition To AguirRe For Mac Tools!
#35 posted by JohnXmas [83.79.44.103] on 2007/10/30 23:24:41
(...GLProQuake being the current best OS X UB client...)
Links
#36 posted by grahf [71.206.185.91] on 2007/10/30 23:53:03
mac gtkradiant: http://www.redsaurus.net/gtkradian...
I found installing it to be pretty easy; it's a binary with installer. Apple's X11 should be on your OSX install cd, or on their website. You don't have to compile it yourself or use Fink like back in the old days. The hard part was convincing Radiant to work with Q1. You have to do this:
http://necros.planetquake.gamespy....
Except with extra improvised steps, because the whole radiant folder is contained inside the gtkradiant app package.
For darkplaces, look in here:
http://icculus.org/twilight/darkpl...
The latest beta releases have mac binaries.
Hmm
#37 posted by aguirRe [212.151.12.196] on 2007/10/31 00:04:39
And I thought that OS/2 was the NeXT step ...
Come On...
#38 posted by JohnXmas [83.78.55.211] on 2007/10/31 00:25:19
it's a unix case!
Warehaus
#39 posted by Shambler [82.47.200.179] on 2007/10/31 09:47:50
Good fun. Like the non-linearity. Well over-supplied with weapons. Couldn't find the mis-aligned crate texture, I suck :S
#40 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/10/31 11:02:01
Well, it's on the back of one of the crates near the start and it's pretty much bathed in blackness. That's why I missed it I guess.
Glad you liked the map!

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