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Posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/21 17:41:59

“Little is known about the facility except that it was constructed to study some newly discovered ruins. Scientists working the dig site were reportedly quite excited about what they had found and were continuing to find. Everyone was surprised when we lost contact with the survey team. Someone needs to go up there and figure out what happened.”
This is a single player level for Quake. It’s best if you play this level using a modern engine, like FitzQuake, as some of the areas will grey out on vanilla software Quake (although it does surprisingly well for the most part).
Screen shots:
http://wantonhubris.com/levels/evi...
http://wantonhubris.com/levels/evi...
http://wantonhubris.com/levels/evi...
http://wantonhubris.com/levels/evi...
http://wantonhubris.com/levels/evi...
Download:
http://wantonhubris.com/levels/evi...
Enjoy!

That Was Fun
#1 posted by ijed [190.20.107.97] on 2008/09/22 01:52:45
A more measured way of playing.
The ending could have been expanded on a bit - extra walkways and locking the player in maybe.
#2 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/22 02:12:03
well built and textured. balanced gameplay for the most part.
also a good testament to your editor to produce a nice, clean map like this. :)
the part where you get ambushed by 3 fiends though... and it's not entirely your fault that fight sucks.
the fiends attack you from a slightly elevated area and that increases the chance that they will one-shot you to almost a certainty so i had to accept a much less than optimal position when fighting them because retreating back down the slope would probably have gotten me killed.
it's a good thing i got the RA + MH secret or i'd have been killed for sure. 200 Armour + 140HP down to 7 Armour + 73 HP :P
the excavation area was cool with the half buried stone/met stuff. i wish that area had been expanded upon a bit more but the return to straight base after that was fine too. :)
gj, and nice return to the smaller scale mapping. :)
Append:
#3 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/22 02:13:13
the shamblers up on the raised platforms at the end.... boring to kill them since all you have is SG, SSG and NG, and not nearly enough nails so you just duck in and out with SG (you can't get close enough for SSG) and they don't chase you into melee, so doing shambler dance isn't an option.
Necros
#4 posted by ijed [190.20.107.97] on 2008/09/22 02:31:26
You missed the Thunderbolt?
Apparently
#5 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/22 02:49:01
lol :P that would have made it a lot less boring. :D
Heh
#6 posted by ijed [190.20.107.97] on 2008/09/22 04:13:04
I don't want to mention where it is early in the thread, but it's not in a secret or anything.
Cool
#7 posted by [Kona] [118.92.142.201] on 2008/09/22 04:43:26
you don't get many cells anyway, so by the time i finished the level i had no nails or shells left, just some cells.
good clean design with standard textures, although it's a safe design aswell. i think it would have been a bit better had there been some custom textures used - idbase has been done a million times, as has that same old earth textures. nice solid, base gameplay. only time i died was on those fiends (which means no demo), i didn't realise the ceiling to the cave was so high, and it landed on top of my head - killing me straight away.
overall could have used a little more detail, but pretty solid design regardless. some more set-piece areas would have been good aswell. look forward to more work from you willem.
Enjoyable
#8 posted by Megazoid [78.32.145.101] on 2008/09/22 04:52:42
Nice to have an engaging story line. Cheers!
First run:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3w7qyc
Nice.
#9 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/22 10:58:52
As stated by others good solid layout, nice fights.
Breaks my #1 golden rule of mapping(Am I qualified to issue rules since I never released something? Hmmm... dunno)that is backtrackability of the whole map. I missed the 1st secret and was not able to go back and find it after cleaning up the level. This left me without ammo to finish the last vore@skill 3 (had to cheat me a RL to exit).
Maybe having the GL in the standard route (not in a secret) would have been nice, given the rocket dropping ogre barrage you get while getting out of the mine area.
In the GL secret if you're not careful, you get stuck beetween the GL platform and the wall, and you have to noclip out. A little more playtesting may have avoided this, I think...
Also, I did not like the way the secrets are marked as being 4 when, in fact, the 1st is a way to get to the 2nd (if you wanna be picky, so is the 3rd to the 4th).
Plus, the onscreen messages got me fucked a coupla of times. No good reading with fiends and ogres jumping at you. Annoying.
All in all, a good work, if a little flawed by the above(IMHO). Looking forward for a larger scale effort, Willem.
Ah, and, of course, I loved to see what can be done with your editor... Now, if I only had the skills to do something this nice... ;)
#10 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/22 11:37:06
Thanks all!
silent:
A larger scale effort? Damn ... this is the largest Quake map I've done to date. Going larger will be an interesting challenge.
As for the secrets, I think you're right. I regretted chaining them like that but it seemed somewhat appropriate. I mean, you MIGHT grab the penta and not think to go looking around in the lava after all. But the GL one, yeah, there was no need for a second secret trigger there.
Kona:
Thanks dude! I wish I had your ability to create custom textures but that's a skill I'll have to work on. I just recently added the ability to import textures into ToeTag so that's definitely something I can start exploring now. I did a few small ones for this level but nothing of substance yet.
necros:
Shame you missed the thunderbolt. :P
You're right about the fiends and I thought about the one shotting issue but they only killed me that way one time so I wasn't too concerned. It seemed like a suitably decent surprise attack so i left it.
Megazoid:
I wanted to do something with a story and I felt this was a decent solution given the tools that vanilla Quake provides.
#11 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/22 11:39:12
One thing I could have done there is provide an optional GL. I did that with the NG ... there's a NG pickup inside the mine that gets destroyed if you get the one in the outdoor area. So if you miss that first one, you'll still get a NG for clearing out the mine. I could have done the same solution for the GL. Hindsight is 20/20 and all...
Ummm.
#12 posted by Shambler [77.97.138.124] on 2008/09/22 12:32:32
What other people said really. The ending surprised me a bit. I like the mine section especially. Was fun.
http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
#13 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/22 13:35:00
I'd love to watch these demos but I can't find any support for the .DZIP format on Mac whatsoever. The only download I found is a command line version that runs in the Classic environment only. :-/
Can you guys post those as normal ZIP files or maybe raw DEM files? Is the DZ thing really necessary?
Love It!
#14 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/09/22 13:41:59
Only complaint is the balance of the fights. Overall, I felt overpowered through most of the map.
Nice to see a map with some enviromental storyline as well as the incidental 'radio chatter' bits too.
Willem
#15 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.139] on 2008/09/22 14:23:53
http://speeddemosarchive.com/dzip/... :p
That's what you deserve for developing a editor for MacOS only, ha!
The map looks gorgeous. For me the radio messages were more of a distraction though, it that stuff was actual audio it would have been great. Size is perfect. Nice work!
Full NM Run + Secrets. Mac Friendly.
#16 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/22 14:28:11
Not much fun. Slow gameplay and erratic backtracking. I recorded it, though, so I might as well post it....
http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
Dzip
#17 posted by Megazoid [78.32.145.101] on 2008/09/22 14:36:18
Is the DZ thing really necessary?
It has the best demo compression ratio out there, which is why it is used as standard.
If you are still having problems with Dzip, I have zipped both demos, and dropped them into a temp directory on my site -
http://www.quaketerminus.com/temp/...
#18 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/22 14:55:58
"It has the best demo compression ratio out there, which is why it is used as standard. "
Well, the DZip site mentions better compression geared towards getting the demos onto floppies which I can't imagine is much of a concern these days, is it? Anyway, I know I'm the odd man out here so mega thanks to everyone posted Mac friendly demos! :)
Dzip
#19 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/09/22 15:30:28
Fails on big demos as well though.
Willem
#20 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.139] on 2008/09/22 17:02:13
btw there is a __MACOSX folder inside the zip (hidden on your OS). And it always is a nice thing to make all filenames lowercase to avoid case-sensitive confusion and problems.
Is there a specific length/size where dzip fails? That's kinda :(
#21 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/22 17:08:06
"btw there is a __MACOSX folder inside the zip"
Yeah, there always seems to be. I wish it wouldn't do that. Grumble...
[ RADIO CHATTER ]
#22 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2008/09/22 19:41:11
I don't think that any of
the centerprints in this
map really added much of
anything, since they had no
impact on gameplay and were
otherwise kind of generic.
[ END ]
Lun:
#23 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/09/22 21:05:22
Good architecture and lighting doesn't add to gameplay either, and can sometimes be generic. What makes center printed flavour text any different?
I'll agree it seems a heavy handed way of adding story to the experiance, but given the limitations of stock Quake, it's an understandably simple way to convey information. I believe the text bits were simply too long and tended to be distractions at times. The sweet spot would likely be a simple single line of text.
I Would Like Lovecraftian Centerprints
#24 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2008/09/22 21:09:53
that describe wierd sensations of terror, cold winds and sulfurous odors, written in the second person.
#25 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/22 21:24:07
I wanted to convey a sense of history and life to the place and I attempted to do that through a few things:
1) The centerprints. These were meant to be like personal logs you found in System Shock 2 and automated messages like the computer voice that spoke to you at times. Really meant to just give the place a sense of history and purpose.
2) The architecture itself. You get mentions of the words "ruins" and "mining" a few times before you actually see them. This should (hopefully() set up the players head to buy into the environment they're about to enter.
3) Since they already know it's a mining operation digging up ancient ruins, the medieval monsters shouldn't seem jarring and actually make some sense as the miners are now brainless zombies and the monsters are roaming free.
This was my first shot at injecting some story and sense of place into a Quake level while keeping the feel of the original game intact. I think I succeeded more than I failed - IMO anyway. :)
First Run Demo
#26 posted by gb [89.27.224.178] on 2008/09/22 21:35:58
for you, Willem:
http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
36 minutes, 90 kills, 0 secrets. Skill 1 IIRC.
Thanks for the map, the theme is nice and often well executed. I really liked the mine section, the base seemed a little bland at times, apart from the library, which was cool.
The outdoor section was somehow lacking. The sniping grunts with their insta-hit shotguns are ... hateable.
The upper story, with the two "huts", was a bit empty. Perhaps the lighting wasn't too interesting there, either.
The mines were my favourite part, although the corridors could have been bigger, and there should have been more health and ammo. I was very cautious because there were a lot of grunts and not much health.
It is easy to miss the thunderbolt and RA, because frankly, every part of the library looks the same. It's too symmetric I guess, maybe a center room would have been good. The grates with enforcers from below were good.
I would generally have liked more ammo, health, and a bigger weapon OR more room to maneuver. Don't make the mistake of expecting the player to have "secret X" here. You should never calculate with the secrets when putting in health, ammo etc. Always assume the player finds no secrets.
The fiends didn't work; see the demo. =??????
The centerprints should have been wav files; the map would have required something like Extras or Quoth then, but it would have been worth it.
I'm all for storytelling in Quake maps, though!
Another problem with the centerprints was that they didn't log to the console.
The ending was lacking; I just skipped the second shambler, because chipping away at him with the shotty wasn't bearable really. The shamblers in this case worked like turrets, by defining a "danger zone" but not really posing a threat. Let me get at them! :)
The problem with the shaft is that it has limited range; against the final shamblers (considering their placement) it wasn't really the right weapon.
More playtesting would have made this map better.
All in all:
Layout ++
Theme ++
Story ++
Atmosphere - (lighting, sounds, scale)
Action - (either more ammo or health, space)
Monster choice/placement - (sniping grunts, shamblers)
It appears to be a "head" map, as opposed to a "gut feeling" map. It is a nice theme though. I played cautiously because of the grunts, and because I wanted to submit a complete demo.
Yeah...
#27 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/09/22 21:42:11
i don't know why someone wants to see a "larger" map from willem, this seemed to be a good size for a quake map.
And
#28 posted by gb [89.27.224.178] on 2008/09/22 21:43:58
centerprints are OK in principle, but they should go on one page. You can do line breaks in Quake :-P
I applaud the attempt at storytelling.
Make a second edition Willem! :)
...
#29 posted by gb [89.27.224.178] on 2008/09/22 21:53:27
Plus, the onscreen messages got me fucked a coupla of times. No good reading with fiends and ogres jumping at you. Annoying.
Umm, you don't need to rush headfirst around the next corner while reading, especially since there were previous centerprints which should have established the concept. :-)
#30 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/22 22:16:42
I like how you missed the big flashing red button at the start location, gb. :) You found it eventually though...
As for the messages not going to the console, that's weird. They do in Fitz.
Storytelling In Centerprints
#31 posted by onetruepurple [83.30.24.203] on 2008/09/22 22:41:11
Do you feel that E1M3 didn't convey its hideous, cavernous atmosphere because it lacked a centerprint? Sometimes architecture, lighting and sounds are enough.
That said, the mine part of this level was really good, great to see a fresh addition to the base theme. However it needed proper contrast (i.e. lighting, sounds) to the sunlit base area to make it really stand out.
Further commentary coming when I've finished playing the map (I suck).
Haha :)
#32 posted by gb [89.27.224.178] on 2008/09/22 22:42:37
I missed it because I was busy writing a comment, then forgot to press. Also, I was suspicious there might be monsters behind it, so moved on and found other interesting things ... :-P
Other people didn't even read the centerprints, though...
It's pretty nice, the mine section and the stretch from the library to the lab entrance especially.
I'm still amazed that shooting a lamp will open a hidden door :-P
I also see that you can use the shaft on the shamblers. I miscalculated the range because I rarely use it; I don't play DM.
Shambler, I can't see your demo. Not version 15. AguirRe's engine?
A Solid Effort
#33 posted by scythe [24.7.54.159] on 2008/09/22 23:10:45
I really enjoyed this map. Very slick brushwork and detailing, pacing was good, and some nice visual storytelling with the ruins.
I agree with the others on a few points. The fiends were ineffective, the lighting in the outdoor section was flat and unrealistic (an obvious, angled sun light would have added so much here), and ammo was slightly skimpy.
Personally, I wanted the slipgate to take me to a final boss battle or reveal some cool vista. It felt like I fought so hard to open it and then the map just ended.
Still, a fun level, very nice work.
#34 posted by Trinca [89.180.175.47] on 2008/09/22 23:38:37
nice map, i also think this is perfect size of a Quake map... after i finish tchak my maps will have all this kind of size!
first run!
http://trinca.quaddicted.com/temp/...
gameplay was fun(never hard and never easy), had a little big luck in demons...
thks god i dind´t died! i got short amo at final area maby becouse i didn´t get any secret amo :(
p.s-> more please!!!
#35 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/23 00:53:13
"Do you feel that E1M3 didn't convey its hideous, cavernous atmosphere because it lacked a centerprint? Sometimes architecture, lighting and sounds are enough. "
I wanted to infuse something of the essence of the people who lived/worked there and that's difficult to do through architecture and lighting. It was an experiment - one that I probably won't repeat.
Willem
#36 posted by Shambler [77.97.138.124] on 2008/09/23 00:57:00
This is a cool map with cool things in. Mines/ruins especially, library and shizzle too.
#37 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/23 01:16:20
Watching the demo I'm learning some great stuff:
- people generally like the sneak peak at the library at the start. lots of people stopped and looked at the goodies inside.
- the first secret is maybe too hard to find. trinca was looking upwards like crazy but still couldn't see the light fixture he needed to shoot.
- the fiends were a mistake. I needed to either completely rework the brushes in that area or lose them entirely.
- most people are getting through the level with ammo to spare despite all the bitching. :)
- the ending needed more ... punch. it worked out alright but it wasn't the fight I wanted it to be. needed more low level dudes, maybe.
- the mines worked out great. They came together nicely during editing and they offer a pretty unique look I haven't seen in many other levels.
- I need a break from the base set. there's only so much you can do before it all starts repeating itself.
- I'm happy to have gotten this level DONE. It's my first full Quake level in many, many years and it excites me that I can still bring one to completion.
Willem
#38 posted by gb [89.27.198.221] on 2008/09/23 01:56:03
remember that in this place, you will get the biggest amount of bitching possible. Normal ppl will probably LOVE your levels :-P
And yeah, it is a good map. my second and third runs were much more enjoyable. All the comments I made were entirely from the perspective of encountering a totally new environment.
Do you want a 4th run demo? :) It's a gigantic difference.
Cheers.
And more plz ++
The Thing With The Ending Fight
#39 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/23 02:06:08
and not just this ending fight, but most ending fights.
it doesn't really build up to anything.
what i did was i would stay under cover and wait for the scrags to come into range and then i'd kill them from the ramps opposite of the shambler holder. then i'd go back up to where the button was and i'd snipe the shambler off.
then you get to the second one and the exact same thing happens.
it would have been cool if you used a trigger_count so that the second button not only opened the standard monsters but released extra scrags or lowered the shambler holder so he could get out and pose more of a threat.
and then, there's the inherent flaw with fighting a group of monsters: the challenge becomes less and less the more you kill. in a proper experience, the challenge should go up the further into the fight you get. sadly, this isn't really possible. (and not really your fault in this case, just a fault with shooters in general)
Nice Map
#40 posted by mwh [118.93.20.2] on 2008/09/23 02:48:10
I think I agree with Willem's comments.
For me, I tended to not read the centerprints because I have been trained to get all jumpy and paranoid when I press buttons :)
I got raped on my first drop into the mines, my fault for playing on nightmare I guess :) Ammo was certainly tight, had to try to avoid gibbing things, though if I'd got into the gl secret it would have been fine. A big box of cells behind the 'security door' would have been sweet, I think.
Architecture was very nice. There's something slightly strange about this modern style of base architecture and not having Quoth baddies..
I Will Never Play Any Map That Was Made On A Mac
#41 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/09/23 03:44:47
Just kidding :)
I enjoyed this map, but my favorite part was exploring the interconnected rock tunnels. Gives the map a feeling that theres more out there than what you just see...
The only bug I found was one spot where I was standing waist high in the ground. Not sure if you intentionally did this or not, it just seemed odd. Here is a screenshot:
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?...
Great work Willem, hope to see more from you :)
Necros:
#42 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/09/23 04:42:40
that's a good point; i think one general solution to it is to trigger more spawns on monster deaths. One way is to basically have waves of monsters, where wave 2 triggers on wave1's death, which means each wave still has the problem of diminishing challenge, even if each subsequent wave gets harder. If you do it with individual monsters each triggering a spawn of a tougher monster, then the challenge does go always up and never down, until the end of course when you kill the first monster of the final group.
You can also have the environment change as the level progresses, such as having less and less walkable floors over a lava pit, or something.
On the other hand, the idea of a large tough room full of guys, where you can pass a tipping point where you've killed enough that it gets easier, is a pretty standard building block of quake combat. Even just two guys in a hallway, once you kill one, it's easier. And because of that, the experience isn't really broken, as long as the challenge is good enough prior to reaching that tipping point.
Hmm, this reminds me that vores in round rooms solve this problem because the voreballs accumulate as you fight them, meaning the threat doesn't go away until you finally peel off the train of voreballs. Maybe a lesson in monster or combat design; have the threat outlast the monster who generates it.
Metl
#43 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/23 05:34:08
Hmm, this reminds me that vores in round rooms solve this problem because the voreballs accumulate as you fight them, meaning the threat doesn't go away until you finally peel off the train of voreballs.
i actually do not agree 100% with this.
it doesn't make a fight harder, it only increases the penalty for making a mistake.
it's just something that is frustrating, not challenging.
being chased by 20 voreballs or being attacked by 20 fiends isn't the same challenge.
(also, as a side note, it should be mentioned that in nightmare, voreballs move faster than the player making a fight like that impossible to win.)
Wait A Minute
#44 posted by ijed [190.20.69.159] on 2008/09/23 05:38:01
Fps games that involve hordes are all about wearing them down. I distrust the concept of death of creature X spawns creature Y because it almost certainly will result in some combination you never thought of, that fucks the player over.
You can get more complicated and make groupings, and groupings of, but unless you have more patience and time (not to mention prescience) than god, you'll never reach a point where it'll work.
The main reason why sucessful FPS's work is because they're easy, but give the impression of difficulty.
This was a fun map. Willem, where the fuck have you been - sprang this one like a trap :)
In my personal taste I'd like more complexity in the combats, but if you try to please everyone the game/map turns to crap.
More please; however you think they should be done.
BTW
#45 posted by ijed [190.20.69.159] on 2008/09/23 05:40:22
Voreballs don't move fatser than the player in NM, they just never miss. The best you can hope for when one or many is locked on is manouvering a monster into the way.
#46 posted by [Kona] [118.92.142.201] on 2008/09/23 06:29:26
yeah this place can be harsh, but it just pushes you to improve each time. overall the biggest improvement you could make imo is some big set peices. still a good map tho.
just played coagula2 contest yesterday aswell. loved distans' texturing, great to see a pro like tyrann doing a good map, although it was far too dark and cramped, necros' map was great, although the third enemy being a shambler really fucked me off :D the hk battle as cool.
Wrong.
#47 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/23 09:18:20
Voreballs don't move fatser than the player in NM, they just never miss.
in ShalHome:
if (skill == 3)
self.velocity = dir * 350;
else
self.velocity = dir * 250;
go into quake, type in the console "sv_maxspeed". it will tell you that it is 320.
350 > 320. therefore, in nightmare mode (skill == 3), voreballs move faster than the player and so combat without cover is impossible.
also, what does 'they just never miss.' mean anyway? voreballs don't miss, no matter what skill level is set. every 0.2 seconds, the voreball's trajectory is updated to point directly at the player.
Not Exactly
#48 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/09/23 09:36:43
Voreballs don't move fatser than the player in NM, they just never miss. The best you can hope for when one or many is locked on is manouvering a monster into the way.
While the missiles still leave the vore's hand at 400ups, it's when they start homing (0.1 second for every 50 units away you are) that they slow down (to 350ups on nightmare and 250ups on other skill levels). While 350 is higher than the player's running speed (320), they are still avoidable if the player knows how to move...
#49 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/23 11:14:53
Orl
Doh! Damn ... oh well, I guess bugs will always get through.
ijed
"Willem, where the fuck have you been - sprang this one like a trap"
Been working on this map. :)
Necros
#50 posted by [Kona] [118.92.142.201] on 2008/09/23 11:47:00
stop doing maths and get mapping! :D
Looking Forward To This
#51 posted by nitin [124.168.22.220] on 2008/09/23 11:48:32
need to find some game time though :)
#52 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/09/23 12:35:39
zomgg só fucking easy first secret :\ arghhh and is so nice to gameplay :\
Ok
#53 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/09/23 15:04:52
But in an open space you can dodge them indefinately, in theory.
Willem, I could see this being part of a series, continuing the storytelling theme. Just a suggestion.
#54 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2008/09/24 00:32:41
I liked this map. I thought it looked very good. All the sections of it were very distinctive and I liked each of them. The combat was tense on skill 2. I have died during the final battle. Didn't have much ammo left at this point. Having the GL from the middle of the map would be very very nice. I think that I have somehow missed the fiend trap everybody is talking about. I didn't read the centerprints also.
A god map. Do another one please :)
http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
I usually use dzip files. Joequake can handle them without extracting and I have a dzip plug-in for total commander from Bengt which works very good. No need to install dzip even :)
Wow!
#55 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/09/24 19:29:05
I felt honnoured to play this map. The layout is great and well done and certainly ready for a keyboard rocker like me.
A bit overwhelmed by the nice architecture and good brush style as well the largeness it suggested. Mines gave a good ambience.
Had a hard bite with low ammu and health, and wasn't able to kill the last shamblers.
Good job, willem... classic quake marine base.
#56 posted by Trinca [89.181.26.114] on 2008/09/24 19:34:09
zommgg Madfox coment a map...
keep drinking or smoking grass :p
#57 posted by CodenniumRed [98.113.145.79] on 2008/09/25 12:24:12
Really REALLY nice map! Some solid gameplay and great use of (mostly) stock Quake resources!
Wanton Hubris Mining Success
#58 posted by negke [82.82.170.255] on 2008/09/25 14:11:57
Great map. Just about the right size. Clean construction (even though sky != nodraw) and good detailing, A library in a base map is a novelty. Gameplay was fair and ammo plentiful. I died once thanks to a Fiend superjump in the dig site. Found the secrets only afterwards, but they weren't badly hidden or anything. Didn't mind the radio logs, though they might have worked better as multiple-line centerprints with a few retriggerings. Most engines don't dumb them to the console, only some do (like Fitz, BJP, DP,..). Good work, I'm switching to ToeTag right away.
#59 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/25 14:26:45
"(even though sky != nodraw)"
Well, it seemed to reduce the triangle counts when I used it on unseen surfaces - if that's what you're referring to. I know it isn't nodraw but I was hoping for less-cuts-less-draw. Maybe it doesn't work like that.
"Good work, I'm switching to ToeTag right away."
If you're being serious. wait until the new version gets done (this weekend sometime). The one on the web site has some stupid crashes in it...
#60 posted by negke [82.82.170.255] on 2008/09/25 14:41:53
Take your time, I still have to save up for a Mac first.
Not Me.
#61 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2008/09/25 14:45:34
I have to save up for lots of things, but I already have a Mac.
Please release the new version!!!
#62 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/09/25 15:25:53
"Please release the new version!!!"
Coming this weekend! A cool feature to look forward to is exporting/importing of textures. And crashing less. But the first is way neater!
Trinca
#63 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/09/25 18:47:16
how do you smoke what I drink?
I'm a quaker with limmited playtime caused by mapping.
now start commenting anonimous loggers.
Queen Or Queer, Sorry
#64 posted by spy [92.46.17.44] on 2008/09/25 21:06:09
wtf with me?
Interesting Level
#65 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/09/26 00:08:51
Skill 1
18:03 (Took my time in a few places deliberately)
0/4
91/93
Ammo wans't a problem for me, unlike some people (mentioning no names, gb... your demo is cringeworthy, and not just because of your reluctance to press a button that's right in front of you)
The fiends just don't work as they are. I suspect that the gap is not big enough to fit hull2. Maybe if fiends were hull1 then it would be more dangerous?
I might cook up a custom progs.dat to play the level through. See if I can make it closer to what you mossibly wanted to intend...
#66 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/26 00:17:29
Lard
Yeah, the fiends were a mistake. I'll place them better next time. :)
The Fiend Bug
#67 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/26 05:33:08
is really stupid. :(
i wonder if we as a community should do like an 'unofficial' patch to quake. no mods but fixes to stuff like the fiend jump bug and fish death count and such...
that way, we just replace the id1 progs.dat and never have to deal with it again. :S
Lardarse
#68 posted by gb [89.27.234.4] on 2008/09/26 07:23:59
I'm glad you liked it. The demo I mean.
Necros:
#69 posted by metlslime [24.130.121.165] on 2008/09/26 09:38:26
there's something called the "Ultimate Regular Quake Patch" which supposedly does all that. Let's see if i can find it...
TXT: http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
ZIP: http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Nice Little Map
#70 posted by BlackDog [220.235.27.39] on 2008/09/26 20:38:58
Weak points were the distracting centreprints and an mine area that seemed uninspired after the interesting entrance. Strong points were some nice idbase architecture and good realisation of the map concept. I particularly liked the library.
There are a few clipping issues in the mines and some minor lighting irregularities, but mostly a solid and enjoyable map.
ToeTag 2.30
#71 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/28 19:08:43
For those waiting on a new version of ToeTag:
http://wantonhubris.com/blog/2008/...
Include source code, as always. I think, hope, and pray this fixes the WAD loading crashes. Adds some features as well.
Enjoy!
Willem
#72 posted by nitin [124.168.4.227] on 2008/09/29 13:45:37
submit as news item.
#73 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/29 14:53:41
Eh, I figure anyone who cares will either be reading this thread or will be checking my blog. I don't want to clog the news feed with an announcement every X weeks of a new version of ToeTag.
Cool Stuff
#74 posted by Fern [71.208.76.168] on 2008/10/05 02:56:32
played it on skill 2, enjoyably right up until the ending during which I ran out of ammo for some reason.
Demo: http://www.suspenlute.com/01/fr3ne...
Top Map
#75 posted by nitin [124.168.4.227] on 2008/10/05 04:34:12
tough and challenging without being unfair. The only minor slipup was the fiends as everyone has said.
Looks are clean and quite impressive. Extremely nice work!
Finally Played This One, Too...
#76 posted by efdat [89.182.16.229] on 2008/10/12 11:55:56
... and i really liked it. i agree with negke on all points, just some minor criticism:
- mines could have been a little darker,
- fiend-trap didn't work for me as well,
- the shamblers at the end could have jumped off their platforms, they were really easy to kill from the distance.
over all: a great map! give us more!
Question To Willem
#77 posted by spy [89.218.9.210] on 2008/10/12 21:05:20
if you still have the src, could you re-release your warehouse map with properly aligned the crate textures, please
Please Don't
#78 posted by Spirit [80.171.84.172] on 2008/10/12 21:28:55
just leave old releases as they are
Yeah I Know But...
#79 posted by spy [89.218.9.210] on 2008/10/12 22:18:14
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/q...
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/q...
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/q...
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/q...
it would be really nice
#80 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/10/13 01:03:07
spy
Hey, that was heralded by some reviewers as an awesome way to get some extra life out of those crate textures. So, like, your Mom and stuff.
It Would Be Really Nice?
#81 posted by Ijed [195.189.142.217] on 2008/10/13 01:26:32
So would a massage from a young claudia shiffer. What id like to see in future maps is the story elements integrated better - probably with some qc.
Those Crates Are Lol
#82 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2008/10/13 20:24:07
#83 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/10/13 21:45:30
Oh, and as for the source, that was 11 years ago. Many, many computers and hard drives ago. The source is LONG since lost.
Yeah
#84 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.124] on 2008/10/14 12:18:22
Just played this at last!
Did my usual trick of playing on skill 3, and thus died repeatedly before having to cheat on the last room!!
I really like the map - it has a great classic Quake style, nice clean texturing and build, and the cave area is excellent! Very nice rock-work, as they say...
Monster positioning and gameplay:
1 - Well for starters I had no problem killing the feinds. I just stood back in the cave a bit and they couldn't get to me, so I shot em with the SSG preetty close range.
2 - I quite liked the horde combat with the grunts, that was fun. Also killing the Ogres in the caves - also fun. This was made interesting by the cramped space. The cramped space, incidentally, I thought was a problem with the feind fight. A bit more room all round would have made for a more entertaining combat there.
The library - once again a cool area, although I entered it with no ammo except for grenades, and no GL!
The end I thought was rediculous on skill 3. No chance at getting past the 2 shamblers and the vore and the scrags and the enforcers and grunts. I think some sort of lab, or another part of the dig would have been better here!.
Either way this is a well made map with plenty fun combat! Thanks Willem!
#85 posted by Jaromir83 [87.249.134.180] on 2008/12/22 14:27:15
very good map, unique theme (for Quake-we have seen similar in various AvP and Thief2 games, but I love it). I would not be against playing whole episode in this "dig site" environment (preferably based on Quoth?). at the first time I was unable to find the way out of the mine though, exit is too narrow and dark.
PS: how to make centerprint font bigger in Fitzquake while using high resolution pls? fonts are too tiny to be read, same problem when playing Fitzquake coop and try to chat. this reminds me... what's the point in creating SP map and NOT placing few coop starts and few additional ammo boxes for coop play there??
PPS: I hope there are more of your maps available, let me google them
Lol
#86 posted by [88.70.61.231] on 2009/03/27 18:41:21
fart
Hahah
#87 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/03/27 19:37:13
Poo!
Reminds me, should play this one again.
Jaro
#88 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.211.150] on 2009/03/28 02:12:18
PS: how to make centerprint font bigger in Fitzquake while using high resolution pls?
I had the same problem - after screwing around a bit, this is the best solution I could come up with:
scr_conwidth 640
scr_menuscale 2
Give that a go... you can obviously play with the numbers if you like, but using those variables will allow you to scale the console text, centerprint text and menu scale.
Frib:
#89 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2009/03/28 03:24:48
there is also scr_conscale as an alternative to scr_conwidth.
Copy/paste From My Quaddicted Comment Follows :-P
#90 posted by Bad Sector [79.130.181.107] on 2009/04/03 04:09:18
This is indeed a very good level and i liked it :-). The "log messages", the excavation site, the secret labs are all well story design decisions and i believe the map could have easily been part of a larger episode with a more detailed story behind it.
Also i liked the clean architecture (This is how i like the base maps :-) and the design contrast between the base and the underground area.

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