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Posted by ijed [190.20.106.213] on 2008/06/29 23:13:14
Here it is: Screens: http://shub-hub.com/files/images/h... Download: http://shub-hub.com/files/maps_sin... Thanks to Distrans for the concept.

.
#1 posted by Homo sapien [195.141.76.131] on 2008/06/30 03:29:15
Screenshot or it didn't happen.
Er
#2 posted by Lunaran [75.134.21.66] on 2008/06/30 03:50:53
you linked to your 'thanks for uploading this file' page. you want this one:
http://shub-hub.com/files/maps_sin...
(posting so I can click it and try the map)
Played
#3 posted by Lunaran [75.134.21.66] on 2008/06/30 04:16:14
I really like how the 'infinite monsters and ammo, no health' felt. very frantic, like there was time pressure, except the pressure was my dwindling health.
I didn't realize you had to stand next to the terminal in the trigger until it finished, so I wandered around for a while hunting fiends until I went back for the third or fourth time and it finally finished. then I went back up the elevator through the sealed bulkhead, fought the guys, got in the final teleporter ... and that didn't work either. so I killed a few more dudes and then the message told me NOW it was active, so I made a run for it and got shot in the back two feet shy of the exit. :P
Start Off With 200 Health
#4 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.27] on 2008/06/30 04:47:54
and the SNG, this should be easy. Think, I'll whistle as I mosey my way up the that corridor . . .
Bah
#5 posted by ijed [190.20.106.213] on 2008/06/30 05:19:07
Metl - can you fix the link to Lunaran's version? Thanks. Tbh I thought that that page would serve the same purpose, only realised afterwards that the thing would require a bit more messing about. I didn't take screenshots because it's just a small mapping effort, and I'm lazy.
Here are a few now though;
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/h...
You're right about that damn console, Lun, nobody realises you have to wait there . . . I should have put a message if the player tries to leave that room before downloading all the data, but it's a pain in the balls to do triggered triggers, especially on a brush limitation (no nail logic gates).
The mechanic of waiting by the console is pretty Space Hulk, maybe why it seems more obvious to me.
Sounds like you had some fun with the map, anyway.
#6 posted by CarnivoreAdaption [84.64.204.6] on 2008/06/30 06:49:29
I'm a huge warhammer 40k fan, and space hulk was awesome...so I loved this, using the fiends as genestealers was perfect too. Good work.
Updated Links.
#7 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/06/30 08:09:16
OMG
#8 posted by Nookadum [202.8.238.117] on 2008/06/30 09:59:15
Huh, WOAW, this is a fun map. :o
Mission Successful
#9 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.246] on 2008/06/30 11:25:41
hulk returned.
mission time 0010 hours.
need medic for 1hp.
data download successful.
excellent execution.
What Lun said except for the :| smilie.
Great fun.
Uhhhhh
#10 posted by Shambler [92.232.214.79] on 2008/06/30 12:30:42
You're right about that damn console, Lun, nobody realises you have to wait there . . . I should have put a message if the player tries to leave that room before downloading all the data, but it's a pain in the balls to do triggered triggers, especially on a brush limitation (no nail logic gates).
Bah, it was highly useful reading that :P. That ensured I tried to keep next to the console whilst 82 Fiends spawned outside and all crowded in the room with me. Eventually I got bored of the small talk and ran around outside a bit to kill them all, but it was a bit unsavoury as I actually lost some health there (which I wasn't planning to do).
Very cool gameplay mechanism, nuff scares and shocks, good combat, good fun.
Ahm
#11 posted by Lunaran [75.134.21.66] on 2008/06/30 13:43:22
(no nail logic gates)
but doesn't quoth2 have a new ent for that? or am I just assuming it does because it has new ents for seemingly everything?
#12 posted by gb [89.27.234.183] on 2008/06/30 15:05:33
congrats !!!
I Think
#13 posted by bambuz [193.167.7.13] on 2008/06/30 15:09:51
quoth2 actually does have a thing for that, trigger enable or something like that, don't remember how it worked.
#14 posted by gb [89.27.234.183] on 2008/06/30 15:15:43
huh, isn't that the beta Ijed? Shouldn't we start with the SNG? Or perhaps I messed up again. :E
Yeah,
#15 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/06/30 15:25:51
It should be there . . .
Trigger enable? I don't remember it, so maybe it was later in the dev cycle.
I reckon a better message;
WAIT
HERE
Instead of;
please wait
Would have been sufficient. I was thinking please wait in a mother / mexx series computer voice ie. whilst fiends are trying to rip the player's skin off.
Thanks to all for feedback.
;)
#16 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.217] on 2008/06/30 15:45:54
Not Bad
#17 posted by negke [82.82.177.210] on 2008/07/01 21:32:29
Quite large for so few brushes. It had a special feel to it, somewhat eerie and deserted. Reminded me of Michael Casaday's Hell In A Can.
The infestation bits were cool, didn't know Quoth2 had such entities. The download wait would've confused me too if I hadn't read the posts above before.
The
#18 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/01 22:01:12
Blobs are bilefrags and bilebomb models from the Gug spanwed via the maponject_custom - although I couldn't figure out how to turn off their animation.
I'm quite happy with how it turned out, a quick fiend slaughter session with some extras.
Forgotten How To Type
#19 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/01 22:01:42
"Reminded Me Of Michael Casaday's Hell In A Can"
#20 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2008/07/01 22:24:07
Very.
Thanks
#21 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/01 22:37:12
Proper Pics
#22 posted by inertia [24.164.67.55] on 2008/07/02 10:57:37
Plz.
Nice Stuff
#23 posted by nitin [124.168.30.117] on 2008/07/02 13:19:59
great execution of the concept, I was a bit skeptical before playing given the limited brush count but this was perhaps the most dangerous quake I've played in a while (since probably distrans' and ricky's base levels).
Very nice atmosphere, would love to see a full blown map in this vein.
This
#24 posted by Baker [69.47.51.111] on 2008/07/02 14:26:02
I walked around not really quite understanding what was going on and was in constant fear.
I think this made me realize some things that are non-ideal about Quake because this map didn't do it.
Nice differences:
1. Respawning ammo
2. Seemingly non-fixed monster placement
3. Starting with a decent gun
4. No health
This removed a lot of the predictability and what can sometimes seem like monotony in Quake of open door and shoot monster or get key and be ambushed and shoot monsters.
I hadn't realized how much having monsters spawn in the same place detracts from surprise. Maybe it happened in this map and I just didn't realize it, but the lack of certainty about what was going on made me more concerned.
All fear is fear of the unknown and being unable to figure out how to stay safe made this map more "real" to me. I liked the staticy TV or monitor it was a nice fit for a spookier map.
Hah
#25 posted by Shambler [92.232.214.79] on 2008/07/02 17:48:27
I walked around not really quite understanding what was going on and was in constant fear.
Cool eh.
Baker
#26 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/02 20:39:49
Not understanding - do you mean the map mechanics?
I had alot of trouble in playtesting with this because to me the idea was straightforward but I didn't take into account signposting well enough to guide the player from the start to the end. The limited texture set and repetition of brush shapes didn't help either - in earlier versions there were no icons on the doors (brushes again) like the arrows, exit and computer texture. Guess I can appreciate the explore mechanic thats been seen in recent Q1 maps and how it was difficult to alter the player's mindset.
I tried to use the beep-beep sound to simulate the classic motion tracker sound from aliens (SpaceHulk also has Blip Tokens) but the sound turns on and off, depending on if the player is looking at the centre of the trigger.
The map probably breaks down under coop. I experimented with having fiend spawners in the form of either cryo-tubes, blob clusters or holes in the ceilings, but didn't have enough brushes / edicts / any new models. So they just spawn relatively far away, although most of the time from different directions so the player can't just put their back to the wall and blat 200 nails into a conga line of fiends.
Originally coop gave each player different weapons (which is why the player spawns first outside the map) with a sargent (+hammer), two regular marines (+grenades) and a heavy weaponeer (LG replaces SNG) but I got rid since I doubt there are any solid 4-player coop matches still running.
Ok, I'm justifying the design a bit, maybe I should have pasted the above into the readme.
#27 posted by Trinca [89.181.44.178] on 2008/07/02 22:20:55
zommgggg weardo map :\ i dont like much fiends... next time use tarbabys hehe
nice map! are you sure that are only 256 brushes? zomggg look much more to me!
here it goes my first run!
http://trinca.quaddicted.com/temp/...
#28 posted by gb [89.27.225.72] on 2008/07/02 22:40:43
next time use tarbabys hehe
ughh no... I hope not o_O
Thanks
#29 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/03 19:59:13
For the demo Trinca - see you fell foul of the download thing as well, then the fiend ambush >:)
Think I'll put 'SpaceHulk' in my mod ideas folder . . .
#30 posted by negke [82.83.62.59] on 2008/07/03 20:05:28
Interesting how much thought you gave to the Space Hulk rules regarding the original coop idea.
I Reckon
#31 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/03 20:34:30
A mod could be made, maybe as coop only type of thing, with each player choosing their class and then trying to complete the mission, the game taking care of genestealer / fiend spawning. If the levels stuck to the fairly flat SpaceHulk Layouts (without much in the way of hazards) maybe even bots could be used to fill out the rest of the team.
Bots
#32 posted by gb [89.27.207.97] on 2008/07/03 21:25:55
There are not many coop capable bots in Q1. IIRC Zeusbot is the only contender here... (Frikbot might technically be another one) I tried it once, and I'd recommend to bind a key to whatever the "teleport bot here" impulse was because they like to get stuck and can't handle lifts etc very well... yup, one lift might be enough to throw them off.
They're not very human like either.
You'd probably want something that takes waypoints, to better handle sticky situations...
Frikbot is made to be plugged into existing mods, however I don't know how good its coop capabilities are...
3zb2 (for example) knows about teamstates, ie it can be follower or leader, and it can either follow a teammate or not... depending on skill flags and circumstances... it checks which weapon teammate has, if he's a flag carrier (in CTF) and decides based on those things...
it wouldn't be difficult to implement commands which do nothing else but setting a teamstate... ie "teamstate follower, follow_mate" or something.
If the bot HAS teamstates.
You could use locfiles to have the teammates report their status... if enough NQ engines support them...
then there are problems like the bot taking every ammo box he can get, instead of leaving it for you... and if you implement that (by checking teammate's ammo status?) they might not know when they're SUPPOSED to pick it up... like for example when they have only 5 health and the axe... (other situations might exist) - they're really pretty stupid when it comes to teamplay.
Q2 Lazarus
#33 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/03 22:05:20
Func_actor had the follow / get out out of the way ability, which depended on if the player was looking at the bot and if it was already following - ie. follow became get out of my way. There was 'all follow' as well and when enemies appeared they had the same 'damagegroup' as the player so got angry at the monster, or just got angry on sight of monsters.
That'd be a hell of a lot of code to implement.
The ammo thing I'd presonally just sidestep - bots always have ammo and don't pick it up, like the Nehahran NPC's, but maybe after firing for a while they are unable to fire for a short time and go into dodge behaviour.
Problem is I've only ever once played Q1 coop, and that was years ago when it wasn't so old hat in mainstream eyes.
#34 posted by gb [89.27.207.97] on 2008/07/04 01:39:07
I'll always be up for a coop session. Only you're pretty far away...
3zb also has the "move out of the way" thing... the angriness is handled by the teamstate, if team leader/mate/flag carrier has an enemy, they'll cover... if in follow mode...
not picking up ammo at all makes it easier, but it would be cooler if they did :) and automatically tossed backpack if player in range and player.ammo < bot.ammo...
For fun, I tried this map with a few Zeusbots; it doesn't look too convincing, they headbutt and either shotgun or axemurder the fiends, and don't survive for long. ie the team WILL get spread out over the map, because they respawn at the starting position. They don't really do the dodging bit either :-/ also of course they don't work with Quoth.
Making a bot lure a fiend in one direction, then strafe in the other, check fiend position, turn around and fire, then repeat until fiend->dead, would be lots of work... plus checking if it's in a corridor, and picking a different tactic... plus checking if and how many other fiends are around... o_O it would be cool to watch though :-) chasecam, hehe...
own mod required is, and lots of bothacking. Maybe you could tune the bots for dodging fiends specially. Not simple... something for the list I guess.
Teambots for Quake.
Nah;
#35 posted by ijed [190.20.110.98] on 2008/07/04 01:45:26
. . . would be cool to watch though :-) chasecam . . .
Kascam
Thinking On
#36 posted by ijed [190.20.95.62] on 2008/07/04 03:38:12
I reckon there'd be enough work in just setting up all the resources, like the weapons, models and players.
So it'd probably have to support singleplayer primarily but with the same player class system.
Ijed
#37 posted by spy [92.47.232.46] on 2008/07/04 07:53:16
cool map
demo
http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
Thanks
#38 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/04 16:16:25
Will watch today.
Good Demo
#39 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/04 19:18:03
A bit more run and gun than Trinca's - I thought you were going to get overwhelmed a couple of times.
Made me realise I should have had the eliminators patrolling and had some autokill for the fiend triggers upon returning upstairs.
Ah well.
I'm Still Trying
#40 posted by inertia [24.164.67.55] on 2008/07/04 22:58:54
to beat it on nightmare.
Too Hard Imo
#41 posted by bambuz [91.152.79.40] on 2008/07/05 00:24:56
with so little health...
Ijed
#42 posted by gb [89.27.202.107] on 2008/07/05 01:53:55
did you see this?
http://www.quakeone.com/forums/sho...
Warp demos in diehard mode.
No
#43 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/05 02:52:15
But I'll give it a look. Seems like a long time ago, now.
Thanks.
It's Possible!
#44 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.191] on 2008/07/05 18:01:33
I can get to the lift (almost) doing a Nightmare Speedrun! And I have completed it on skill 3!
Excellent map Ijed!
Sielwolf - What's your best time for this mother?
It Felt
#45 posted by bambuz [91.152.79.40] on 2008/07/06 10:05:15
very space-hulkey (played the computer game only).
That game was hard and desperate.
Ricky
#46 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.233.102] on 2008/07/06 13:29:18
let's see your speed demo :) the demos I made during playtesting are still here:
http://www.badongo.com/file/100165...
Well This Is What I'm Talking About:
#47 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.191] on 2008/07/06 22:16:47
Skill 3 speedrun *attempt* :)
Havent watched you're "quoth" demo yet, wander if its one demo....
I bet you could speedrun this Sielwolf!
Whoops
#48 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.191] on 2008/07/06 22:16:55
http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
#49 posted by gb [89.27.247.51] on 2008/07/07 12:52:09
I hear Sielwolf plays this one in id1, like a man :-)
respawning ammo, phhh...
;-)
Ricky
#50 posted by spy [92.47.228.158] on 2008/07/07 14:13:33
nice attempt :)
Can't You Do
#51 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2008/07/07 17:59:05
respawning items in regular quake with a qc hack? just set 'respawntime' or something on the ent, I thought.
I Think
#52 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/07 18:07:14
You have to set its use to respawn, then trigger it.
Will watch the new demos today.
@Ijed
#53 posted by Baker [69.47.51.111] on 2008/07/08 07:19:53
Oops I didn't notice your question ;)
I just meant I liked it because I didn't have the confidence of knowing where and when monsters were going to spawn.
It seemed like every time I was opening a door my first few attempts, a fiend or 2 somehow was right behind me killing me.
I adopted a very conservative play style after that but the "safety" of a normal Quake map was not present (you know, clear area ... continue ... retreat back through door ... wait for dumb monsters to come ... lob some grenades ... repeat).
I imagine there was a pattern to the spawning but the not knowing how it worked altered the dynamics for me and I was paranoid due to that.
Nice
#54 posted by rudl [78.104.3.161] on 2008/08/19 20:26:23
Really enjoyed the map
:)
#55 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/08/19 20:27:52
Sock-inspired Replay
#56 posted by onetruepurple [89.75.203.25] on 2010/04/06 23:32:43
Skill: 2
Monsters: 76/76
HP left: 20
Played this for the second, maybe third time now, so some of the thrill was lost, but otherwise it was still full of shock and the "twitch". Especially when you open a door, expecting 3 fiends, and get 10 instead. The most unsettling moment was when I got pummeled at the console (lost all remaining RA and like 80 health), went back to the upper tier with ~40 HP, feeling quite safe because I knew a GA is up th-- oh shit...
Anyone notice that the gravity here is lowered? A very subtle change, but it works :D
It's also commendable that you managed to convey a scary, desolate atmosphere with only 256 brushes. What's that evil whistling wind sound you used thorought the map ijed? I looked through the quoth paks but couldn't find it.
Hm
#57 posted by ijed [190.20.85.237] on 2010/04/07 00:48:07
Don't remember the sound - the source should be included though.
What I like about the map is it's like a puzzle - different routes activate different groups, and when they chase you down different corridors the thing plays out differently.
The small size keeps it short and fast as well - I tested by only quicksaving after the download was finished.
Will mention again to any new players, you need to wait at the console for the download to work.
I Mean
#58 posted by ijed [190.20.85.237] on 2010/04/07 00:49:21
One quicksave at the midpoint.

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