Radiant: Taming The Brush

[MadGypsy]

Taming The Brush

When creating complex geometry it is common to have brushes that do not want to cooperate. The below image illustrates a brush that refuses to snap to the grid



As evidenced by the image below, attempting to snap the vertex to the grid just pops out a different vertex. Why is this happening?



The image below shows that my edges are following 2 different angles (and therefore the widths of either end are different as well). The clean 4 angle is going straight through the corners of the grid units, whereas the sloppy 4 angle is not. One of these has to be made like the other. I choose to turn sloppy 4 into a clean 4, because that is how all connecting brushes are designed.



The image below illustrates how I grabbed the corner of my triangle and the broken piece simultaneously and moved it all down one unit



The below image illustrates how after fixing the angle the rest of my piece is still off but, it's off symmetrically. In other words, instead of one corner being higher than the other, they are just both off the grid, but in a straight line.



By selecting everything and choosing snap to grid, everything pops perfectly in place. This also tells me that my geometry is sound. If there was some problem, snap to grid would not have worked.



We can see that the piece has decided to fit exactly how and where I need it to.

[golden_boy]

Yeah, good post.

Personally this is when I select the problem geometry and export it to Blender (via brushexport plugin). In the long run, that is more efficient.

edit: oh, you probably mean for Q1 bsp. In that case, Blender is not an option of course.

[MadGypsy]

@your edit - HAH! I actually waited a minute for you to edit in that fact before I pointed it out. Good catch.

I could write little factoid posts like this all day. Doing nothing but playing with radiant has its advantages. I don't have an end goal so there is plenty of time to solve all the little mysteries. In the meantime I become an expert at radiant.

There will be a game one day and the brushwork will be elite.

[golden_boy]

I tend to forget that Q1 exists sometimes.

[MadGypsy]

I know what you're saying, but Q1 mapping is awesome. If you saw the stuff that I don't show any of you, you would see the power of that statement.

[golden_boy]

Not sure why people don't switch to Q3 bsp format for making Q1 levels, it is superior in many ways. Such a level would require Darkplaces or FTE, but I don't understand what the problem is with that. Lots of people use Darkplaces anyway.

And once you are using Q3 bsp format, you can start doing half your level in Blender and have no more brush-snapping problems whatsoever. The limits also get a lot higher and you get real curves and so forth.

[Sza]

@GB interesting. Ups I never knew that DP is compatible with q3 bsp.

[MadGypsy]

Why I don't use Q3 BSP:

The house I am sitting in right this moment was built entirely by myself with the Q1 version of tools. For instance I didn't have or use a miter saw. I had to cut every angle by guiding a skill saw along the line I popped. There were other super fancy tools that I did not possess and I had to use more rudimentary ways to achieve those results. Every single thing on this house was made/customized by hand.

Q3 mapping is like either:

1) building a prefabricated home, where you just screw everything together
2) building with the most advanced tools that construction has to offer

In that, the tools do all of the work. Instead of "putting 4 floats on the sheetrock seams, rust priming all your nail heads, caulking only the vertical seams, putting one completely opaque coat of paint on the exterior" and other such things. You click a button and much of that is done for you.

Q1 vs Q3 mapping is like 33 Glazing vs glazing in the tube. 33 Glazing needs to be completely removed from its bucket and kneaded into balls of equal oil consistency. You then have to use a blade and a steady knowing hand to "decorate" all of the sashes at the proper consistent angle. Knowing your tool and possessing skill allows you to get those perfect factory looking corners. Glazing in a tube gets squirted across the sashes and a quick run of your finger smooths it out, give it a day to cure and a simple piece of sandpaper can be used to smooth any inconsistency. No skill necessary, just apply, wipe and touch up with sandpaper if necessary.

I map for Q1 because you have to actually do something, actually you have to do everything cause there are hardly any tools. There isn't even 3rd party tools (like blender for instance), you have to possess skill, especially to make the complicated shapes that I make.

Q3 has another fact which completely blows it for me. Q3 mapping obsoletes radiant. With the exception of creating a BSP hull, there is no need or reason to use Radiant at all. Blender is a far superior modeling suite and apparently Q3 has no qualms with anything you make in blender. I don't want to make maps in blender. I wouldn't enjoy it. The "joy" comes from working with each individual brush and taking a system that was not designed for grand detail and convincing it to allow very complex geometry. Sure, maybe that geometry is a little more "square" than I would like, but that just adds character. Who decided that "round" was so much better than "angled"? I don't think it's better at all, it is just "other".

Anyway I gotta get my butt to work but, that's why I don't use Q3 BSP.

*takes the radiant out of the work
*too many tools that do everything for you
*sucks the "handmade" clean out of the design

[golden_boy]

Most of that is pure fantasy, unfortunately. Just because patch meshes and mapmodels become available doesn't mean that mapping sudenly requires less skill. Keep in mind Q3 is almost as old as Q1! Patch meshes and mapmodels are not the magic bullets you think they are. You're making the mistake of thinking that by limiting yourself to not use those, you are somehow required to be more skilled. Not true. But a lot of people in the Q1 community are making the exact same mistake - seeing additional options as a danger to some perceived oldskool integrity of Q1 modding.

In the end, it's all triangles, my friend.

[MadGypsy]

No, I'm not making any mistakes, other than maybe my poor explanation of what I am trying to say. I assume you are referring to this:

I map for Q1 because you have to actually do something, actually you have to do everything cause there are hardly any tools. There isn't even 3rd party tools (like blender for instance), you have to possess skill, especially to make the complicated shapes that I make.

Taken out of context the underlined could mean a lot of things, but it's pretty clear what I said. There are no helper tools at all, you have to rely purely on your skills for manipulating brushes by hand.

That doesn't say (anywhere) that you don't need skills to do q3 mapping. Actually, you need a shit load of unrelated to q1 skills. Like, how to use blender. I know how to use blender and I don't want to make my maps in it. If I wasn't using Radiant I would be using Deled.