Seven or anyone knows effects?

[Baker]

To Seven or anyone who knows DarkPlaces effectinfo.txt effects:

As you may know, Spike made a QuakeSpasm with FTE particles and it is largely DarkPlaces compatible.

Problems:
(1) Too few people know how to make effects.
(2) Very little documentation ...
(3) Almost no examples <------------- REAL PROBLEM

Is there anyone who knows how to do these things who would be interested in making a few small samples like:

(a) How to make a model emit subtle sparks? (Like a broken monitor in a single player base map)
(b) How to replace a grenade trail with a thicker trail?
(c) How to make a pent emit sparkles or floaty magic particles?
(d) Make a gold key emit a light that fluctuates a little.

I think if there were some easy examples, they might get used in single player maps and who knows maybe these kinds of things might become somewhat common in new single player maps.

I had made a thread at Func regarding this, but at the present time a bit of a lack of quality examples is the main challenge.

Func_Msgboard: Spiked Quakespasm Modding/Coding Help Thread

I know there are single mappers who *want* to use this stuff, but without many examples --- it's going to be a real challenge Maybe if there were more examples, there might be more people who get into making effects. I know when Nahuel made a CSQC HUD for DarkPlaces, more and more use of CSQC started to happen for instance.

[R00k]

PurpleHaze's FTE Effects
QuakeWorld.nu - my FTE particle effects

the true link here : http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/fi..._particles.zip

[Baker]

Spike and I already have that, it is one of the provided examples in the thread and in Spike's download of the engine.

But what is really needed are single effect examples, so single player mappers can understand a single effect.

[Seven]

Hello Baker,

The first things that came to my mind when reading your post:

Are custom particles only accepted in Quakespasm ?!
They are there and available since decades in DP & FTE and nobody want to use them !

Then right after this thought I was thinking:
All the Quakespams users use Quakespasm because of its faithfullness for rendering Quake. Everywhere (in Spirits engine comparism chapter, in user posts, in reviews, ...) you read that for authentic Quake lovers, Quakespasm is recommended because ... well because it is faithful.

Now I read more and more people trying to bring all the bells and whistles from DP & FTE into that engine. Why is that ?
Dont we disturb the main reason to use it ?
FTE can do everything that Quakespasm can (and better), but nobody from the mapping scene wants to use it. Why is that ? That is almost hilarious.

What will be next ? Will the Super8 engine support high res textures and .md5 models ?
We are slowly mixing things from the high end engines like DP & FTE into all other ones it seems. I still cannot understand Spike why he started this show. Just because he can ?! Because he got bored ? To advertise the FTE engine ?
It seems like in 5 years all Quake engines will be the same...



OK, now that I relieved myself a little bit, I am back to your question
I thouhgt you know the SMC mod. All of your examples a) to e) are available in it and hundreds of effects more. The SMC even broke the effectnum limits of DP and LH had to extend it.

I do not know Haze�s effects, as I do not use FTE (Now, since ver.5000 I cannot even if I wanted as it crashes on my computer). But looking into Hazes config file, you already have many examples too.
The efect syntax seems very similar to DP�s effectinfo syntax. Spike even wrote a translater that can make use of DPs effectinfo, so ...


If the Quake mapper scene really only excepts custom particles (which ruins the harmony between low texture resolution and blocky models in my opinion) in Quakespasm, then I do not understand why it doesnt use FTE. DP is burned because everybody thinks it is a shiny bumpy glossy wannabee engine for posers, so FTE is the only alternative.


So, as a conclusion:
We have hundreds of examples already (Haze + SMC). And there is Nexuiz of course. I recorded hundreds of youtube clips, showing the individual particle effects in action / in-game.

That is much much more than I had back in the day when I started this thread. So that should be more than enough for effect copies for every situation. And you also maybe know that there are tutorials for weather effects and custom map particle effects here at quakeone.

So, what more could a modder request ?

Best wishes and best of luck for your pimped Quakespasm.
Seven

[Baker]

Are custom particles only accepted in Quakespasm ?!

The "Spiked" Quakespasm particles should be compatible with FTE and DarkPlaces. As I understand it, Sock is making something that will use the particle effects in both this special Quakespasm and DarkPlaces.

They are there and available since decades in DP & FTE and nobody want to use them !

That's what we are trying to change.

To get such a particle system to be mainstream accepted and used, so nicer effects are available in single player releases that work in all the engines support them but also work without the effects in engines that don't.

But it needs some simple examples, there are like 80 different particle commands.

(That link you provided with the different effectinfo files may be very helpful.)

[nahuel]

Now I read more and more people trying to bring all the bells and whistles from DP & FTE into that engine. Why is that ?
Dont we disturb the main reason to use it ?
FTE can do everything that Quakespasm can (and better), but nobody from the mapping scene wants to use it. Why is that ? That is almost hilarious.

What will be next ? Will the Super8 engine support high res textures and .md5 models ?
We are slowly mixing things from the high end engines like DP & FTE into all other ones it seems.

The things you mentioned with the engines, it is being carried to maps !! Vanilla quake doesnt run bsp2.
Yes, I'm talking about BSP2. bsp2 It is becoming more similar to q3bsp !!! I understand that q3bsp can not use lightsyles, but these do not make the big difference in most maps, even if you want to use q3bsp with lyghtstyles can use the version of Qfusion (Warsow), and be exclusive of FTE without any problems!
Seven, I always thought that the quake community lacks a good exclusive map, or singleplayer campaign, exclusive for those engines (you know, using q3bsp and maybe extensions). Q3bsp is great, has many advantages !!

[Seven]

Hello Baker,

If mappers only accept features that are supported in "their" engine (in that case Quakespasm) than shall it be. But avoiding an engine (in that case FTE) for years even though it can do everything that QS can do is strange for me.

Trying to press an "old" feature into QS just to keep QS as the ultimate mapper engine is wrong in my opinion.

Saying that 3 engines can handle the same effect syntax and still keep the same in-game visual is very unlikely. As Darkplaces will surely not get adopted, so Spike needs to find a way to make 1 syntax block ( --> 1 effect) look 100% identical in all 3 engines. The visual already differs too much between DP and FTE�s effectinfo translater, so...

In the end there will be a qc function to check the used engine, then loads the corresponding effect syntax. That is a load of effort just for compability sakes.
Spike will need to concentrate on FTE & QS if he wants to have a chance to be succesfull. But not all 3.


Regarding the link in my previous post:
That link is very very old and the content is in simple words: not satisfying; and even has syntax failures, as I did not have any effect syntax documentation at that time. That was pure learning by experimenting without knowing values and their limits/meanings...

Please do not use this (or forward this link). Instead you should use the SMC effectinfo and its effects, as they are a LOT more polished, correct and of course dozens of additonal effect examples are included.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind regards.

[Baker]

People use what they like and people have different interests and tastes.

It is more about understanding why someone prefers X or why someone prefers Y. People who can see both X and Y see the merits of each point of view.

[Icaro]

-

[Spike]

Seven, I got pissed off at people like sock basically being crippled by his user's preferences, and the final mods being crippled because of it.
I wasn't really planning on particles, but when AD fakes them, and smc feels terrible without them, and weather effects can add a lot, I just went with it because why not. Unless someone explicitly use it (ie: user, modder, or mapper), then it'll look+feel identical to regular quakespasm.
I also spent some time on networking too, because it seemed that QS was basically hopeless at AD coop over the internet, especially if the sprite-particles were enabled.
The result has *much* lower network traffic.
Anyway, I already got most of the things added that I was annoyed about QS lacking, so it should just be bugfixes now. That includes DP/FTE particle system differences. As useful as recording voip into demos might be for quakespasm, I'm too lazy to bother now (there's some diff somewhere that I made for qrack if anyone else wants to do this).

Side note: smc actually runs in quakespasm now, but qs still lacks a number of features, like shaders, md3s, mdl limits, and stereo sounds. Otherwise seems to work as about as well as in FTE (I'm not trying to get you to do anything, just keeping you informed - its a handy test mod and I found at least one qs engine crash with it). My focus with this is really on mods that already work on QS, and allowing them to actually be able to use the occasional extra extension, rather than a reimplementation.

[Mugwump]

In the end there will be a qc function to check the used engine, then loads the corresponding effect syntax.

Isn't it what AD already does with QS and DP? It may be more work but from a player's perspective, it's a good thing to be able to pick your engine of choice for any given mod.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Isn't it what AD already does with QS and DP? It may be more work but from a player's perspective, it's a good thing to be able to pick your engine of choice for any given mod.

I concur this.

[Dutch]

The problem is the vast majority of engines have very subtle (or sometimes huge) differences. I speak from experience here. Back on the 1st mod I was making, I set out to make it totally compatible. As features got added, some engines loved them, some ignored them, some altogether hated them and dumped me to the desktop.

In short, a mod that doesn't stick to the bare bones of Quake (like Quoth) is almost impossible to make compatible with several engines. Also in my experience, QuakeSpasm seems to handle modifcations very smoothly out of the box. I've added features that bog out or even crash DP/FTE, but QuakeSpasm just keeps going. Granted, given the correct cvar adjustments and commands, DP and FTE can be optimized 100x more than QuakeSpasm, but then you enter the realm of "will all of the players who download my mod stick with the correct settings for this mod"? Because another thing I've noticed is people suck at reading readmes.

This is why I think QuakeSpasm is adored by so many: it's easy to mod, and even easier to play. But then everyone wants some more bells and whistles without stepping up to the advanced engines with their hundreds of settings and thousands of combinations of said settings. So a mildly juiced-up QuakeSpasm is very appealing.

It seems like we have faithful engines and super engines, but not a whole lot in the middle (which seems to be where everyone wants to be nowadays). I think Spike is helping to fill this gap.

However, I do absolutely agree with Seven as well: FTE can look faithful and run advanced at the same time. It is surprising to me that no one utilizes this much.

[Mugwump]

It is surprising to me that no one utilizes this much.

It may have something to do with the advanced users recommending either QS for a classic Quake experience or DP for HD and FX. I don't recall anyone recommending FTE to me when I dove back into Quake a few months ago.

[Baker]

Simple effect videos

1) Sparkle: [ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=9TWUVe2_T3c[/ame]
2) Smoke: [ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=K4iyK6yW8bw[/ame]
3) Flame: [ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZH9zMBCyRFw[/ame]
4) Myst: [ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=YXRx6sr-H4k[/ame]
5) Rocket Trail: [ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=mOE71jc0RtI[/ame]
6) Decal: [ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=3mRtTRSOKeE[/ame]
7) Model Light: [ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=L8QX0TuTLTw[/ame]

Eventually tutorializations will follow.