DarkPlaces R_GLSL is read-only

[yuggsoth]

So, I've read several posts on this forum that suggest entering the console command "r_glsl 0" can greatly improve performance on many video cards. However, when I enter r_glsl 0 into the console, it returns with "r_glsl is read-only". So, my r_glsl is stuck at "1". how do i change this?

[MH]

Use -noshaders on the command-line instead...

BUT

Don't be too quick to do this.

GLSL shaders are only slower on some hardware, and this means the GeForce FX 5200 and cards of that class (if "class" is the right word to use for that PoS).

On most hardware that most people are likely to have GLSL can be faster; often much much faster. A more complex multi-pass fillrate-intensive effect can be collapsed into a single pass, something that's impossible otherwise can be done, heavy tesselation can be avoided. Cool stuff that makes Quake both run faster and look better.

On more modern hardware the old fixed pipeline is emulated through shaders anyway. So even if you explicitly disable shaders, you'll still be really using them behind the scenes. This isn't an engine option; it's the way your video card driver works, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. In this case using the GLSL path in the engine can also be faster because it uses shaders that are tailor made for exactly what the engine needs to do and nothing more, rather than more general purpose more complex shaders that emulate the non-shader path.

My own engine uses shaders exclusively for absolutely everything and it's the fastest one out there by a long mile. That should tell you something.

So - reading somewhere that disabling them can make things faster doesn't automatically mean that doing so will always be faster for everyone. You might find that the end result is the exact opposite.

[yuggsoth]

Use -noshaders on the command-line instead...

BUT

Don't be too quick to do this.

GLSL shaders are only slower on some hardware, and this means the GeForce FX 5200 and cards of that class (if "class" is the right word to use for that PoS).

On most hardware that most people are likely to have GLSL can be faster; often much much faster. A more complex multi-pass fillrate-intensive effect can be collapsed into a single pass, something that's impossible otherwise can be done, heavy tesselation can be avoided. Cool stuff that makes Quake both run faster and look better.

On more modern hardware the old fixed pipeline is emulated through shaders anyway. So even if you explicitly disable shaders, you'll still be really using them behind the scenes. This isn't an engine option; it's the way your video card driver works, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. In this case using the GLSL path in the engine can also be faster because it uses shaders that are tailor made for exactly what the engine needs to do and nothing more, rather than more general purpose more complex shaders that emulate the non-shader path.

My own engine uses shaders exclusively for absolutely everything and it's the fastest one out there by a long mile. That should tell you something.

So - reading somewhere that disabling them can make things faster doesn't automatically mean that doing so will always be faster for everyone. You might find that the end result is the exact opposite.

Thanks for the info! I'll try it and see what happens. My card is an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4250. Might you be able to provide any tips on how to get the best performance from my card without making the game less beautiful?

EDIT: I tried the command line option and at first I noticed the framerate did not improve. Then when I encountered water, a problem occured in which the sky texture replaces my water =(

[grave_digga]

No vised maps is your problem yuggsoth. You need vised maps for the levels you're playing.

[yuggsoth]

Oh, I fixed the water lol. Now I just need to get the framerate up above 30...

[MH]

The Mobility Radeon 4250 is a DirectX 10/SM4 card so it should be faster with shaders on than with them off. It's not a great performer by any metric though, so you literally can't pile on the visual effects - it's just not up to the job. (I can outperform a Mobility Radeon 6250 with a 4/5/6 year old Intel 945.)

This will be made slightly worse by ATI/AMD's known bad OpenGL support. DarkPlaces however does have a Direct3D 9 renderer available which might perform a little better. Try setting vid_dx9 to 1 and follow it by a vid_restart and see what happens.

[yuggsoth]

The Mobility Radeon 4250 is a DirectX 10/SM4 card so it should be faster with shaders on than with them off. It's not a great performer by any metric though, so you literally can't pile on the visual effects - it's just not up to the job. (I can outperform a Mobility Radeon 6250 with a 4/5/6 year old Intel 945.)

This will be made slightly worse by ATI/AMD's known bad OpenGL support. DarkPlaces however does have a Direct3D 9 renderer available which might perform a little better. Try setting vid_dx9 to 1 and follow it by a vid_restart and see what happens.

Ok, I did this and it made the textures appear black and glitchy. It also gave me a rather long, red error message about shaders...

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Go into CCC , and find 3D Gaming section.
here's an older example....



newer example



drop all your sliders to the left (performance) , and give that a go !

[yuggsoth]

I've already done that =(

[yuggsoth]

I've noticed that DirectQ runs super fast on my computer. Can I install textures and models into DirectQ to make it look more like my DP game?

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Agree'd , DirectQ literally grabs today's GPU's by the fn balls, and demands performance.

Did you enable OpenGL triple buffering in CCC? Disable all RT variables, like lighting,shadows, and enviroment. Those are the heaviest hitting features of DarkPlaces imho.

[MH]

Agree'd , DirectQ literally grabs today's GPU's by the fn balls, and demands performance.

It demands but it gives. It won't run on pre-DX9 hardware, but on DX9 or better hardware it can outpace anything else. It's been deliberately designed to take advantage of this, but the other alternative is also a valid design choice. Horses for courses.

I've noticed that DirectQ runs super fast on my computer. Can I install textures and models into DirectQ to make it look more like my DP game?

Textures yes, models no. It's not really intended as a "content replacement"/"pretty Quake" engine (I even regret supporting external textures) so that's valid within it's remit.

Be aware that my own (admittedly brief) tests with Mobility Radeon hardware seem to indicate that these parts are primarily fillrate and vertex limited. Ramping up the detail with external textures will only make things even slower.

[yuggsoth]

I don't want to lose my RT variables =(

I'm just looking for a balance of performance and "prettiness".

[yuggsoth]

UPDATE: I have found an acceptable build.

DarkPlaces (latest beta) with:

VIS'd maps
QRP Texures (instead of Rygels)
ReForged Monsters
Plague's Pak weapons
Pretty Water
Seven's Small Mods
weather effect ents

The only small problem is...MASSIVE fps drop when I get in hit in the face with a grenade. I know the obvious solution is "don't let the ogres hit you in the face with grenades", but is there anything else I can do just to solve that 1 issue without sacrificing too much bling?