Acceptance of *RMX maps, or lack thereof

[golden_boy]

I was thinking, does anybody actually use maps like DM3RMX for deathmatch or team deathmatch? Are they on any servers?

If not, what do you think why not?

DM3RMX has exactly the same layout and proportions as the original, and looks 100 times better. So why aren't DM and TDM players all over it?

Just wondering.

[Baker]

If not, what do you think why not?

Mature game syndrome. Many players have favorite maps they have enjoyed played for 10 years.

[Mr.Burns]

I must admit I liked what was done with e1m1rmx and if I ran a full time server on a fast connection I'd certainly put it on there for fun. I know a certain very helpful big-bottomed () european player who shall remain nameless has a long term on-off project to update dm6, and there was some work done on dm3 but are there any other remixed levels? If so where? I get the feeling that I'm not the only one who would welcome some fresh ideas on a 'familiar' map.


Kind regards

Monty

[golden_boy]

are there any other remixed levels?

If someone made some, how many people would play them? Estimate? 1% of the whole Quake scene? Look at the fate of DM3RMX. That one is a *faithful* recreation (in DM mode) but I get the impression that QW players for example, prefer the original DM3.

The difference in texturing, lighting etc. is like night and day. Still they prefer the crappy old original. Perhaps because they play with fullbright lighting and pink replacement textures anyway...

Do you have any idea how b0rked the original id maps are, and that any new RMX projects would most likely start from scratch, on a bigger grid, because of technical reasons, and that would mess up jump distances/routes and countless other characteristics of the original maps?

I think that would make it even less likely for QW / TDM / Runequake players to accept them.

Is it true that looks don't matter for a multiplayer map? Because that's my impression. Pink textures all the way (Aerowalk, arggghh...)

I get the feeling that I'm not the only one who would welcome some fresh ideas on a 'familiar' map

For singleplayer or coop, sure. But for DM? Or Runequake?

I think you're a minority tbh. Why isn't DM3RMX on every Quakeworld server?

That's what I'd like to know.

Baker, yeah sure, but DM3RMX is almost an *exact replica*...

[Mr.Burns]

My apologies, I have no experience of Quakeworld on which to base a creditable reply.

I can tell you however that the remixed version of e1m1 was tried on a netquake server some time ago and was generally received quite well by the players at the time. Unfortunately the map seemed to cause the server and clients to lag badly and following some complaints of unplayability it was removed and replaced with another custom map.

Good luck with your question.

[Zop]

What happened in the remix maps? I made some 'again' maps that are original maps, yet designed for CAx gameplay according to different CAx regulars.

[Baker]

Baker, yeah sure, but DM3RMX is almost an *exact replica*...

Quake has around 2000 deathmatch maps, probably of which less than 200 are anyone's favorites and only about 30 of those are well-known by many and under 10 that widely loved (the top tier maps: aerowalk, q1edge, ztndm3, etc.)

Too many maps, not really much of a need for more general use DM maps (specialty maps = different story). There are all kinds of great DM maps out there that get no play. Big supply for a small market.

Same can be said for single player maps: Unless a new map is particularly exceptional in some way, it probably isn't going to be interesting to that many people (Warpspasm was so outside the norm that it was special, for instance).

[golden_boy]

My apologies, I have no experience of Quakeworld on which to base a creditable reply.

Hey, no need to. I wasn't trying to sound rude, sorry if I did.

I can tell you however that the remixed version of e1m1 was tried on a netquake server some time ago and was generally received quite well by the players at the time. Unfortunately the map seemed to cause the server and clients to lag badly and following some complaints of unplayability it was removed and replaced with another custom map.

^^ that's pretty astonishing. The map is pretty small.

Baker: Hmm yes you're right about the "oversupply for tiny market" thing. However DM3 is one of the top DM maps, right? Or has that changed? I'm just puzzled that a better-looking but otherwise faithful DM3 is not getting preferred over the original. The only reasons I can see is that

a) looks don't matter
b) the slightest change (admittedly there are some of these) is enough to put people off -> players are highly, extremely conservative.

It's not something for me to grow grey hair over (I got over it), just kinda interesting in a number of ways.

Personally I can't look at maps like E1M1, DM3, and a number of others without getting the urge to throw up. For a long time, I didn't realize that typical DM/QW/... players couldn't care less about the visuals. I guess they don't see "it" anymore.

It leaves me in disbelief when QW players post those screenshots with new models and high-res replacement textures but *no one* will complain about the horridly misaligned textures. They will say "ooh nice" when in reality it's just as horrible as before, just high-res horrible. But of course when you're busy fragging, you probably don't look at the walls.

:-)

what happened in the remix maps?

Typically the SP remix maps are reinterpretations, more or less loosely following the original layout and texture theme. E1M1rmx is just that. E1M1quoth has quoth monsters etc added. TPOF is a loose remake of E4M4 using Quoth monsters. DM3RMX is a remake of DM3 with added areas in singleplayer only. No mods required.

The DM mode in DM3RMX is faithful to the original, i.e. the additional SP areas are locked off and the placement of weapons, armor, powerups is *the same* as in DM3. Even the proportions are the same. There are some variations in brushwork and texturing is neater. Apparently the deviation is big enough to make long-time players feel uncomfortable though, otherwise this could be a new standard.

With the hardware and connections that Quake/QW players typically use, a small map like that shouldn't create any lag. Of course I'm no server admin... just wondering.

Thanks for interesting answers.

[ijed]

In making a remake of a classic map you're never going to be able to replace the original in the map list - its a learnt map that everyone knows and loves (assuming its in the list).

Remake maps tend to be bigger than the id originals and better put together, so thier propensity for DM play is less - to put more detail without changing the size you need to work in q3, doing the former changes and 'spoils' the experience for DM players.

I'm aiming for much more coop play in some maps I'm working on. Granted its not easy finding servers or setting up LAN's, but if the map is built with the necessary aids to coop (like coop starts ) then there's opportunity for good play.

[golden_boy]

Ijed: Yeah, I'm also thinking coop is the way to go.

And after doing extensive research, I have to admit not all replacement textures look _horrible_. I am very sorry I made that remark. I should have known better.

For example this one:



Or this one.



Horrible was the wrong word. Sorry. Sorry again.

Now why anybody would want to remake them using the original textures is beyond me. Those pink and orange ones are fine. I'm officially no longer complaining.

:-D