Rygel's pack in DP: normal maps glitches on weapons

[kingennio]

I'm not sure this is the right forum I chose to post but I'd like some feedback on a texture glitch I found in DarkPlaces using Rygel's weapons-pack from here (which comes from Ryge's ultra).
I posted some pics to show what I mean. These snapshot are taken with the light setting on high, not full, so RT-lighting is off. As you can see the textures are not properly applied to the model (black spots) and it's much more noticeable in the animated spinning model.



At first I though there was a problem with the textures not matching the models, but after some fiddling I came with the idea of deleting the normal maps of the models. They shouldn't matter as my setting didn't use RT-lighting anyway, yet lo and behold, after removing the normals the problem vanished!
So my next step was to take a look at these normals made by Rygel. Here's the one for the super nail gun (nail2).


Then I tried to make one myself with CrazyBump (as I did in the past for other models with missing normals). Here's mine:


If you look at both of them you'll notice mine is inverted w.r.t. Rygel's. I put my normals in Rygel's weapons-pack and ran DP. To my surprise this time there wasn't a problem in DP and the textures were applied correctly and without glitches.




So to make a long story short, it seems Rygel's normals for some models are inverted and cause glitches in DP that can be noticed in particular when the models spin. I've also notices this for the BKeys, Pentagram-of-invincibility, and the Runes. By making the normal maps inverted seems to correct the problem, at least in my case.

[Seven]

Hello kingennio,

Rygel made a nice pack some years ago.
But it has many issues. You just described one of it.

Tip:
To see the difference easier, make a key-binding with "parallax mapping on" and
make a key-binding with "parallax mapping off".
Stand in front of the object and press the keys alternating.

Reason for this is the alpha channel in the normal map. It must not be there.
There is a option setting in your CrazyBump, where you can adjust it.
Because of the fact, that CB is by default NOT saving the alpha channel,
your normal has no issue.

This problem appears in many other fan-made releases as well: Osjclatchford, d1554573r and even ooppee has/had this problem.


You can of course create your own normals and release them here.
I guess many users (who didnt correct them already) will be happy about it.


Kind Regards,
Seven

[kingennio]

Thank you Seven for your feedback, as always you are one of the most knowledgeable people here!
I'm remaking the normals for the objects besides the weapons because they have the same issue. Of course I'll post them if people care. I'm trying to make my normals as best as I can with many try-and-error in the past and following yours and My-Key suggestions. I'm also trying following the advise found here which basically suggests to set shape-recognition to zero in CB and medium/high details to zero, while fine details to max. After some fiddling generally I find this setting too extreme and I allow a bit of shape-recognition (just a little), and a bit of high/medium details, although every map needs to be tuned by itself for best results.

I think it would be nice if we shared same experience on the settings in CB so that we can all make the best out of it for everybody to share.

Also, is it true that bump/high maps are unnecessary when normals are also present? I read that in DP bump maps are ignored if normals are there. Bump are a simpler version than normals. So even with RT-light off bump maps are not used?

[LambentHammerBurst]

Bumpmaps are pointless to have with normal maps. They provide a similar effect - so having both is overkill.
I've found the settings for Crazybump to be preference. I actually almost use the default settings most of the time. I find setting the Fine to max makes it too much overkill (as in the very small details became sharp). However doing better bumpmaps do require you to edit the skin first then take into Crazybump - change brightness, contrast in areas ect. If you had hazard stripes on your model - if you didn't change the skin the black stripes would be "engraved" which they shouldn't as they are at the same height as the yellow stripes.

[kingennio]

If you had hazard stripes on your model - if you didn't change the skin the black stripes would be "engraved" which they shouldn't as they are at the same height as the yellow stripes.

unless I'm wrong, that's why the setting on shape-recognition should be set to zero?

[LambentHammerBurst]

Setting to zero fixes that but then also removes the ability to give off a more 3D effect on areas of the model.



Is a example, if I set it to zero. The metal area in the middle (big red area) wouldn't get lit up the way it is it would instead be flat lit overall. Zero is great for adding minor details but if you want to emulate a raised area more - you have to use shape recognition. As you can see in the 4 shots of it - that metal area is lit very differently and looks like it's raised when in reality the surface is a triangle. If set to 0 you wouldn't have that effect.

[Disco]

Seven is awesome. Inkubo and Seven are our resident texture/model/graphic geniuses.

[osjclatchford]

i concur

[TR2N]

Sorry guys, but i don�t understand what you are talking about.. Sorry, i am noob, but i try to learn.. Maybe, it is because of the missing screenshots from kingennio. Can someone show me the difference?

I have uploaded a video with my settings, is it possible to explain it with this short video?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4uk5E9V3Yg[/ame]

EDIT: I have found a thread, where Seven is talking about the option, to use the normals from QRP and overwriting the ones from Rygel. Maybe that is an option? On the QRP website i have found a download for the normal maps only. Can i unpack the file and copy it over Rygel ones?

But i don�t understand the technical difference..

Thanks so much!

[inkub0]

use my PK3s...

http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-tal...y-quake-7.html