Eight Z-Fixed Maps, Now Re-evaluating

[KillPixel]

This will likely be a long post so first things first; here are eight z-fixed maps. e1m3 might cause your client to crash at launch, if so remove demo1.dem from pak0.pak or keep the demo from playing.

Ok, until now, here is what I've been doing: I'm using Worldcraft 3.3 with QuakeAdapter. In order to avoid an issue with funky texture alignment I have to do this. I've come to the conclusion that doing that is bad. It's causing some anomalies (WC 3.3 is causing some on its own as well), which I only began to notice in e2m3. For example, the dart shooters in the "dart hall" lack shadow in the barrel area, the inside arch of the shambler door is missing two small spots of textures, some of the surfaces of the dark blue tower don't fully connect at the corners, etc. This sucks.

I need to an editor that will give me consistent, quality results. What would really be great is if I could find the editor and compiler originally used when making the game, that way there would be zero discrepancies between the original and fixed maps.

I need someone to point me in the direction of a good solid editor and documentation. I can't seem to find one cohesive source, it seems to be scattered among the original software manual, forums and private sites. I just need to find the bible of of configuring and using any given program.

I've tried:

Quark - pain in my ass, issues when trying to compile. Having difficulty configuring.
BSP - same as above.
Qoole - Looked shady.
Worldcraft 1.6 - causing map anomalies.
Worldcraft 3.3 - same as above.
GTKRadiant - I want to be able to use this, having difficulty compiling, vague if any error reports, just no results.

So, I guess at this point I need software that won't flake out on me on certain maps.

What do you guys think I need to do?

[KillPixel]

mmmmm, ok. I got GTKadiant set up and running properly. Woot.

I did a little experiment and compiled the completely untouched map sources via cmd using qbsp.exe, vis.exe and light.exe and the maps come out about 30% smaller in file size than their Id-compiled twin and look like barf in a blender.

My eyeballs hurt, I'm going to bed.

[golden_boy]

Are the textures still misaligned when you load the map sources into GTKradiant?

I have done a bit of this myself, and some maps seem to be leaky, but I don't remember texture alignment issues.

As for surfaces not exactly touching each other, that is BAD.

One of your first actions should be to select the entire map and snap everything to the grid. The grid is the law. Doing this will make everything technically line up.

Snap the entire map geometry to the smallest grid size where it will stay intact. Try grid 2. If that doesn't mess the entire map up, try grid 4. Grid 2 will do though. If you have to, use grid 1.

Then try to compile, and fix all leaks. If the map is leaky, the compiler will put out a .pts file (pointfile). You can load this into the engine by typing pointfile in the console - it will show a row of dots that on one end will point at the leak.

1) Snap to grid.

2) Fix all leaks.

3) Fix texture issues and z-fighting as far as possible (it's not easily possible to align all textures in an id map, so just do what you can do without too much trouble).

4) I recommend a modern compiler (Bengt Jardrup's) and MH's light tool, there have been so many improvements made to the quality of the map compilers it's not even funny.

5) While you are at it, I recommend at least compiling for transparent water - this removes the need for everybody to vispatch their maps. Bengt Jardrup's TxQBSP should do the transparent water stuff automatically.

If you need help with GTKRadiant, just ask, I use it as well. Have you found the tutorial here

Tutorials The Realm of Blog Magic

Also ask if you need compiling help, I'm willing to help you through this.

There is extremely valuable info about all kinds of compiler / engine errors with regard to mapping here:

http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/tooltips.txt

Jardrup's compilers are here

The Homepage of Bengt Jardrup

MH's light tool is here

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/fi...ColouredR2.zip

[golden_boy]

I was bored, so started grid-snapping, leak-fixing and re-lighting the Quake map sources. I have leak-fixed the entire episode 1 and Start, took me about 2 hours since I had to fix leaks in e1m4 and e1m5. Then I got even more bored and added sunlight and coloured lighting (hand-made, not using some automatic tool) to the Start map. I will now do the same to the entire episode 1 since it's fun. I'm also compiling them for transparent water (no vispatch needed).









I am using -extra4 and -soft in the light tool to improve the quality of shadows.

You can have my sources when I'm finished. I don't know where all the z-fight problems are.

[Baker]

e3m3 Beam towards bottom of map doesn't go all the way down.

(Near Ogres + Rocket Launcher with lava and button, further down the stairs of the exit room).

[MH]

e2m1 on the door over the enforcer hideout in the gold key room.
e2m4 on the bars around the silver key area.
e2m7 around the exit area (the bars over the hole in the floor and the bars over the exit door).
e3m2 has the pillar doors in the zombie area (after the silver key door).

[golden_boy]

More things that really should be fixed mapside is the func_door_secret that plays the base sound in medieval maps, and the idiotic plat_top issue. The +0slipbot stuff as well. Anything else?

[MH]

Claustrophobopolopolopolopolopolopis has the wrong worldtype if memory serves. It's base, should be metal.

sky1 and sky4 are messed up in some maps.

Solid skies (that one really bugs me, but a simple rebuild of the map is all that's needed).

There's a great list here: Quake Info Pool - Classic Quake - Map Bugs but some of them are engine and QC related rather than map related.

[golden_boy]

A huge "WTF" @ that map bugs list. That is looking like work... oh well.

[KillPixel]

Hey golden_boy, thanks for all the info and help...I went to bed last night pretty discouraged, but I know fixing the maps is possible, as you proved. It took you 2 hours to do something that took me the past few days.

I've meticulously searched each level (first 2 episodes) and found all instances of z-fighting. e1m4 was really bad, I think there were 7 or so instances. Though, this may very from engine to engine. I'm using DQ (my personal holy grail of clients). I also planned to replace the base sounds with medieval ones on medieval secret doors.

You suggested compiling for sunlight, colored lights and transparent water. I don't mind doing this, though I would never use it. I personally just want maps that are technically bug free, but vanilla in every other respect. Are those features able to be disabled engine-side or would I need to compile two maps; one vanilla, one fancy?

Thanks for all your info, I have a feeling I will be seeking your assistance.

GtkRadiant loads the maps fine, no problems.

I'm no mapper, but it SEEMS that the original id maps would be unacceptable today (technically). I mean, there are at least 2 maps in e1 with leaks...

Ok, I'm going to read through the material you sent me and do some messing around until I can get a compiled playable map, I'm ignoring the editor right now and focusing on compilers. As I said, I compiled the map source and had problems, so I need to fix that before even looking at the editor.

Thanks again, victory is on the horizon. Onward!

[golden_boy]

Coloured light and sunlight are mapside, so is transparent water. This means two sets of maps will be needed.

Edit: This means I will be doing my own map-fix project and just toss them into RemakeQuake since I assume several people wouldn't want the coloured light etc. We can use this thread to share info though.

A list of all cases of z-fighting would be helpful.

[Baker]

More things that really should be fixed mapside is the func_door_secret that plays the base sound in medieval maps, and the idiotic plat_top issue. The +0slipbot stuff as well. Anything else?

The bottom of one of the ammo boxes has a very wrong texture! (Ammo and health models are actually .bsp maps)

I'm thinking it is the small box of rockets. You never see the bottom of a box of rockets usually so it is almost never noticed.

[I'm about 70% sure of this. 30% chance my memory is wrong. If it isn't the box of rockets it might be the small box of shells. When I discovered this, it drove me crazy. I think I was trying to make a high res texture for one.]

[KillPixel]

hrm, I'll make a list of sreenshots and give you the link to them. sound good?

[golden_boy]

killpixel; that'd be cool.

[KillPixel]

here you go.

I'll upload E3 and E4 Friday night or Saturday. Added arrows for extra lolz.

Warning to bystanders: cannot unsee!