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virtuoso_q1 gamepack for NetRadiant

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  • #16
    I was actually thinking about attempting a kickstarter for this, but it would have to be handled very strategically. There are a lot of elements of this that are not my work (ex compilers, NetRadiant) and the end result would be free. The former is against kickstarter policy and the latter could be considered a "fund my life" project which is also against policy. There is much more that I want to do though, and maybe it all depends on how I word/present the project.

    For instance maybe (just maybe) if I TC'd the Quake source (new source QC, models, etc) I could kickstarter the project under the premise that it is a new game source with accompanying creation tools and elaborate documentation. I'm not working for that reason, though. That was more of a bonus idea that I had to make all of this work more rewarding for me.

    In reality, my goal isn't to make money. My goal is to attempt to pump interest and participation into a dying game from my childhood, by simplifying all the processes and elements that are necessary to create with it. My other goal is more of a consequential one. Through making these things easier, better documented and possibly even more robust, excellent authors like golden_boy may be able to incite more production from their tutorials. For instance, instead of their tutorials being something like this:

    "Allow me to show you how simple it is to map in Radiant....and now that you have a completed starter map, let me attempt to explain to you the incredibly confusing methods for actually compiling that map. You only have to translate my bash scripts into batch ones and thereby learn an unrelated language..."

    That is one spot where I believe it all falls apart. That is the spot where people lose interest cause now they have to be a programmer of sorts just to compile their work. I have hopefully eliminated that. I'm going to eliminate and simplify more stuff. I've also figured out a more strategic way to promote participation in this.

    ...and of course I have my "candy" elements, like making it possible to map with a game controller, which btw doesn't suck at all. It condenses all the kb shortcuts into a much more comfortable hand position, eliminates the entire unused portion of the keyboard, removes the need for multiple devices, adds a "fun" factor and allows the user to relax in any position they like.

    I'm not saying there are no cons. I'm saying there are a lot of pros and really, the only con I see is the mouse part is a little slower BUT once you play with the controller a bit and program the operations into your muscle memory, it is way faster than a keyboard, instant even. Your fingers are already where they need to be and you don't need to look down.
    ---

    @Mark - your signature is obnoxious bro and you just keep making it longer and more spaced out. Suggestion

    1) convert the text to size=1
    2) pick line-breaks or "_" for separators instead of combining them
    3) use "-NAME" right after the end of the line instead of putting the name on a new line.
    Last edited by MadGypsy; 09-05-2013, 07:35 AM.
    http://www.nextgenquake.com

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    • #17
      in the virtuoso_q1.game when ever i mess up compiling the info gos to the junk text if it could show in the counsel in Radiant that would be nice. this is how it works for q3 maps...

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      • #18
        1) info to console is not possible for q1 maps. In order for it to work you would have to turn build process monitoring on and that will break your compile. It will tell you that your compiler doesn't even exist, even though it does. If you would like to test this for yourself. Go to edit/preferences/[build] and check "enable build process monitoring" then try to compile a map. This was the ninja destruction of using the build menu for q1 compiling and it took me quite a while to figure it out.
        2) what do you mean "when I mess up compiling"?
        3) build info goes to junk.txt every time you build
        4) it is not possible to even include junk.txt in the build menu because when you use the build menu Radiant automatically starts writing to junk.txt. So to open it in a build is to overwrite it and your system will tell you that it can't open it because it is in use anyway.

        Re: #2 - really interested as to what you mean by that.
        http://www.nextgenquake.com

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        • #19
          I attempted some things and ran some tests for you. As it turns out it depends on the compiler you are using for what kind of crash you are going to get. It also depends on what exactly you have selected after you turn build process monitoring on. However, no-matter-what, you will not get a q1 map to build with build process monitoring on. One way or another it will definitely crash.

          It did give me one piece of information though. Apparently it times out because the compilers are not "networked". That being said, convince someone to upgrade the q1 compilers to be networked with radiant and it will be official with no work-arounds that q1 mapping is radiant friendly. There is actually 0% gain in this. You would still be making the exact same compiles the only difference is you wouldn't have to manually open junk.txt. Really, that is all networking the compilers would do! Hardly worth it.
          http://www.nextgenquake.com

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          • #20
            2) what do you mean "when I mess up compiling"?
            MAYBE I SHOULD SAY MESS UP MAPPING LOL
            Its not you its me...

            i keep getting this:
            SubdivideFace: Didn't split the polygon near (2615 788 10), altar1_6

            what im doing i have a self built map peace and i keep trying to duplicate it over and over and some how it mess up! i thought i was so good at copy past

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            • #21
              I'm not sure what that error is, probably the too small brush thing you mentioned in the other thread, but use spacebar to duplicate. Just select everything you want to make a copy of and press spacebar. It's kinda like an all-in-one copy/paste in place.

              Make sure you only press spacebar once and immediately move the duplicate out of your original. If you need more copies. Press spacebar while the duplicate is still selected and move that duplicate out of your original duplicate. Repeat as necessary.
              http://www.nextgenquake.com

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              • #22
                Just a heads up for everyone. Virtuoso will work exactly the same in GTKRadiant. When I wrote this so specifically I was still stuck in the mindset that virtuoso was technically supposed to revolve around my controller mod and only NetRadiant was going to support the shortcuts.ini switcher.

                It just hit me that I haven't gotten that far yet. So, this actually works with all applicable (ie not DarkRadiant) Radiants. It hasn't been tested in GTK Radiant but it really doesn't have to be. Both Radiants use the same file structure, commands, configs, etc. Really, the only difference I see between NetRadiant and GTKRadiant is NetRadiant can be made portable...that's really about it, at least in a q1 sense for sure.
                http://www.nextgenquake.com

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                • #23
                  I am not 100% finished but I will be releasing an updated version of Virtuoso very soon. It will include

                  1) All Map2 compilers (except hmap2bsp2 cause it's unnecessary) from the RMQ SDK
                  2) A new default build menu that aims to give one example of each compiler set as opposed to a retarded list of generic builds
                  3) A complete rewrite of compiler documentation. This mainly revolves around listing and describing all possible switches and keys in a way that wont have you searching all over the place for answers
                  4) The switch/key list will be accessible from the build menu for quick viewing

                  That's all I have right now (or will have very soon, I should say). Really all I have left is to finish the compiler docs rewrite. I have already isolated all the switches and put them in a list. I just need to write a short description for each one. There are actually quite a bit of switches...some really obscure stuff for sure.
                  http://www.nextgenquake.com

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                  • #24
                    Very cool stuff you got going on here. Should make getting into radiant mapping quite a bit easier for all quake1/qw junkies. Tried it out and I guess from the build menu I'm a bit overwhelmed, I'm not sure which compile option to use for a final map. Would be nice to have screenshots of an area compiled with all of the different compilers or something? I dunno. At least you're getting feedback right?

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                    • #25
                      @getting feedback - yes and it makes a difference. Especially since you brought up a good point. "Which build to use for a final map?". The answer is, a very firm "None of those". This is why I also wrote the tutorial on how to change your build options without code. The idea is to introduce you to mapping with simple builds that will allow you to get started but, as you grow, you learn more and add the switches that work for you.

                      Maybe you want -sunlight, maybe you don't. Maybe you want -extra4 or maybe that isn't sufficient and you need to switch to hmap2 for -extra8x8. There is no real way for me to give you a "final build". I wish it was that simple. If you just want rough and ready you could use any build with "full" in the label, but this is like generic bare minimum improvements to a "flat" compile.

                      One build menu item you need to change, no matter who you are (it doesn't matter if you don't even have a brush) is change -threads to .... ohh wait, I have an idea.

                      I will make a var to represent -threads # and use that var in the build spot for -threads switch. This way, you change one var and it will change the number everywhere. For instance:

                      Code:
                      // this comment represents compiler paths converted to <var> ([bsp],[vis]&[light])
                      
                      <var name="tc">4</var> //tc = thread count
                      
                      <build name="Some Build">
                      	<command>[bsp] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      	<command>[vis] -threads [tc] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      	<command>[light] -threads [tc] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      </build>
                      
                      <build name="Some Build -fast -extra">
                      	<command>[bsp] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      	<command>[vis] -fast -threads [tc] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      	<command>[light] -extra -threads [tc] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      </build>
                      
                      <build name="Some Build -fast -extra -sun(mangle)(3) -noawater">
                      	<command>[bsp] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      	<command>[vis] -fast -noambientwater -threads [tc] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      	<command>[light] -extra -sunlight 250 -sunmangle "44,-75" -sunlight3 15 -threads [tc] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      </build>
                      See what I did there? I have three separate compiles with six spots to change the -threads switch but, by using a var it only needs to be changed in one place. Hmmm, there is more that this can be used for without being overdone.

                      Consider if the most famous points on a compass were predefined. Not just predefined but also homogenized so, you can change the pitch of the sun in just one place and still use the entire compass, without having to change anything else.

                      Code:
                      //"-sunmangle [token]": if North is X+ then the below is the code. If North is Y+ start E at 0 then cascade the values in increments of 45 all the way down to NW, wrapping the remainder to the top (N, NE).
                      
                      
                      <var name="N">0</var>
                      <var name="NE">45</var>
                      <var name="E">90</var>
                      <var name="SE">135</var>
                      <var name="S">180</var>
                      <var name="SW">225</var>
                      <var name="W">270</var>
                      <var name="NW">315</var>
                      
                      <build name="Simple Sun">
                      	<command>[bsp] "[MapFile]"</command>
                      	<command>[vis] -fast "[MapFile]"</command>
                      	<command>[light] -sunlight 250 -sunmangle "[NW],-60" "[MapFile]"</command>
                      </build>
                      You could easily open up Build/Customize and change [NW] to any of the other vars. The second value is the pitch of the sun. 90 = up, -90 = down.

                      Anyway, thank you for replying to my project. I am going to kick back and rewrite the compiler docs for everything now. I'll be done soon enough and customizing the build menu (as well as understanding your customization) will not be an issue.

                      ,
                      Michael
                      Last edited by MadGypsy; 09-15-2013, 10:13 PM. Reason: Final Edit: I didn't realize I was going to have so many little ideas and have to do so much editing to describe it all.
                      http://www.nextgenquake.com

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Sun mangle?
                        What does that do, change the angle and length of shadows?
                        If so I can imagine some very creepy effects for it.I will grab this as soon as I get home and test it, thanks for your efforts.
                        WARNING
                        May be too intense for some viewers.
                        Stress Relief Device
                        ....BANG HEAD HERE....
                        ---------------------------
                        .
                        .
                        .
                        .
                        .--------------------------

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Light compiler switch -sunmangle "#, #" or worldspawn key _sun_mangle "#, #"

                          Set the Yaw and Pitch of your light source. The first # in sunmangle is "spin the bottle". The second # in sunmangle is best described like this:

                          90 = straight up
                          -90= straight down
                          there is no: abs(sunmangle_Y) >= 91

                          You can also set a z-factor and I would imagine this represents how far your sun is from the ground. I have never actually tested it and am doing nothing but speculating what seems to be obvious.

                          Before you can use sunmangle you have to satisfy 2 conditions.

                          1) You have to have a sky texture somewhere and everywhere you have sky texture touching the void, you will have sun.
                          2) you must have a -sunlight switch or _sunlight key. 250 is the recommended value to begin with

                          There are other things you can do to sunlight. The -sunlight2 switch or _sunlight2 key will add many more suns. This basically makes your shadows of a lighter nature. I believe 50 was the starting number which was recommended.

                          There is also a shadowsense # (-switch and _key). This does something blah blah blah and it can be between 0.0 and 1.0. 0.4 is the recommended starting value and is intended to be combined with a -sunlight2 of around 10

                          However if you use sunlight3 # (-switch or _key) it will automatically set shadowsense to 0.4 and assign the value you input to -sunlight2. It is recommended to use a lowish number like 10.

                          And if that isn't confusing as fuck, I don't know how to make it any more confusing. Sorry that I don't know what shadowsense does I only read the docs for that maybe twice.
                          Last edited by MadGypsy; 09-15-2013, 08:19 PM.
                          http://www.nextgenquake.com

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            did you know the DP looks at the MP1 and 2 different?

                            i have modded the crap out of my qc and i now need to run my game like this:
                            darkplaces.exe -rogue -game Virtuoso +map GRAVEYARD

                            quoth dose the same thing throw hipnotic. ( my qc sucks compared to quoth)

                            quoth is very popular with mappers. so i will not be the only one who needs this kind of run map in there build. i tryed to tinker with the run map bat to get it to work but was not able to do it. can you help me out with this i bet others will like to use it that way too.

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                            • #29
                              did you know the DP looks at the MP1 and 2 different?
                              I did not

                              i have modded the crap out of my qc and i now need to run my game like this:
                              darkplaces.exe -rogue -game Virtuoso +map GRAVEYARD
                              open run.bat and change it to this

                              Code:
                              cd /d %~dp0..\
                              %1 -rogue -game %2 +map %~n3
                              Last edited by MadGypsy; 09-24-2013, 12:47 PM.
                              http://www.nextgenquake.com

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                              • #30
                                Thank you good sir i will give it a try.

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