"4Way" map development thread

[Admer456]

Hello, everyone.
Apparently, the Quake mapping community is still going strong, so I decided to hop into it:






(oh man, better fix that texture alignment)

Yes, this is my first Quake map. Having 2 years of GoldSrc mapping experience, Quake mapping is pretty much a halved version of it, so it wasn't even a problem to adapt, at least for me.

Basically, at the start of the map, the player spawns on the grassy ground behind the wooden wall in front of a stronghold.

I might decide to give a different start, e.g. landing with a parachute (achievable with a func_train, I suppose), or simply getting lifted by an elevator under the ground. Time will tell.


Oh, and yes, I'm using J.A.C.K. so please don't kill me. :3

[Admer456]

I made some changes:

I extended the ledge width.


Fixed the texture alignment and fixed some errors which came with it:

(looks like I should turn on phong shading)


The only problem being VIS taking 10 minutes. But that's much better than those compile times with VHLT for GoldSrc, ahahaha. On a map like this, it would take half an hour, but I'll test that once I port this map to Half-Life 1.

And I changed the door entity. It was a func_door_secret but it's now just a regular func_door:




Lastly, I decided what happens after the next cave, but I still can't wrap my thoughts around the spawn. Should it be a raise-from-below-the-floor-with-a-lift thing or should the player first spawn in an enemy-infested aircraft and jump out with a parachute? I don't know yet. I think the parachute is much more fun, but less achievable. I'll see about it later.

[Dutch]

Your terrain looks good! But the non-organic structures look a little blocky...might add some bevels and detail brushes. Keep it up.

@vis takes 10 minutes

Are you multi-threading the vis compilation? Because for a map as open as that, 10 minutes is insanely fast. I once Vis'd a map that took 4 freaking days. Granted, my computer is pretty old, but still...10 minutes ain't bad.

[Admer456]

Well, my map isn't so big. And I think it's insanely fast too because my almost-10-year-old laptop is slow.

"Are you multi-threading the vis compilation?"
Yes, I think. The compile window says which settings are used by the compilers, so I think they all use both threads.

"I once Vis'd a map that took 4 freaking days."
I once saw a map whose author waited 15 days for VIS. xD
My longest personal record is... 3 hours? Not VIS, but RAD took most of that time. (but that's for CS 1.6, so I'm not even surprised)

[Seven]

Hello Admer456,

I would like to write about 1 thing that came to my mind when looking at your screenshots.

This is from your 1st post:


And this is from your 2nd post:



You have changed the scale of the wall texture in your 2nd screenshot dramatically to be able to match the floor and ceiling. That looks worse than the 1st screenshot because it is extremely stretched. You should not do that.
Better find a compromise between wall and ceiling texture scale or use a different floor texture.

I like your 1st screenshot much better than the 2nd as it looks more realistic/equally.

And the castle wall needs some more variety of course

Good to see new mappers !
Keep up the good work.

Best wishes,
Seven

[Admer456]

@Seven
The cave texturing can be easily fixed. But you didn't recognise what I did there.

Basically, I altered the texture projection. The faces' textures have the World align option. However, some are projected on the Z-axis, some on the Y-axis, X-axis etc.
So, I found a way how to uniformly align my selected textures:


As you can see, the yellow and green lines are parallel to each other, which means their projection is on the same axis. It's sort of like UV mapping, though I'm not sure if this feature is present in Trenchbroom. It doesn't neccessarily need to be in the Z-axis. I could choose a certain, slanted face's projection and apply it to the others, which I've done with the cave.

The textures aren't actually stretched, just projected differently. That means that I just have to change the geometry in order to stretch and un-stretch the textures. =)

Regarding details and stuff like that (lighting, too), the map hasn't even reached Beta. Gameplay and layout are my priorities for now.

[Admer456]

I added the 2nd cave:



And some other stuff (apart from scaling down the textures):



I still can't decide whether the player should spawn in an aircraft or below the ground. :/
Though, I definitely know what to do after the 2nd cave.

And it looks like that VIS took 520 seconds which approximate to 8.6 minutes. So yeah, it's less than 10 minutes!

[MadGypsy]

The vis would work faster if you

a) used less brushes to create your cave
and/or
b) made the cave twist more so less can be seen from any given point.

Also, the cave seems like it should graduate either upward or downward. It's too flat in the second pic.

[Admer456]

Well, the second cave doesn't need an elevation, but I'll see what I can do about it, before adding the big pipes. Maybe make the player go down but without coming back? I'll decide.

By the way, it's not like I'm complaining on VIS. For example, my school map for CS 1.6 would take me an entire day of Vis'ing. Some people claim to have had 15 days of compiling for one map. I wouldn't mind it, so I'd rather keep the complex geometry (or I could make it even more complex, it seems low-poly with these downscaled textures).

[MadGypsy]

Personally, I think your cave looks awesome, especially the first pic. For the second pic maybe just add some lumps on the floor next to the wall. That should break up it's flatness and make it feel more organic.

Maybe even make the lumps with a different dirt texture. I realize the dirt should match since it essentially came from the walls but, that doesn't mean it would look better than using different dirt. You are doing a whole lot with mostly 1 texture, and it looks good but, you need some contrast. Throwing a couple of large rocks down there couldn't hurt. Some clay colored rocks would probably look really good.

[Admer456]

Personally, I think your cave looks awesome, especially the first pic.

Thank you.
I should tessellate some parts, though.

For the second pic maybe just add some lumps on the floor next to the wall. That should break up it's flatness and make it feel more organic.

You mean this one?


I don't quite understand what are "lumps"...
goes to Google Translate
Oh, tiny rocks. xD

Maybe even make the lumps with a different dirt texture. I realize the dirt should match since it essentially came from the walls but, that doesn't mean it would look better than using different dirt. You are doing a whole lot with mostly 1 texture, and it looks good but, you need some contrast. Throwing a couple of large rocks down there couldn't hurt. Some clay colored rocks would probably look really good.

Well, Quake certainly comes with more than 1 rock texture, so I'll find my way.

[MadGypsy]

@lumps....

Sorry, that was a poor description. I should have said "piles of dirt". You could place them randomly and at different sizes along any cave wall to break up the continuity of your main cave shape.

@you mean this one...

Yes. Imagine maybe a big pile of dirt somewhere along the right wall and maybe a rock or something along the left but, offset from the dirt pile. This would disguise how linear and flat that area appears.

Maybe even have a slate looking rock jutting out the wall. Something that leads the player to believe it was too big to dig out and too hard to chisel through.

It would be cool if when the player reaches the cave there are a bunch of ogres working. I know that would require a ton of work but, I think your cave deserves something unexpected like that. Also, you need to make a little wheelbarrow full of dirt sitting off to the side somewhere. It doesn't have to actually work, just something to enhance the feel of the environment.

[Admer456]

It would be cool if when the player reaches the cave there are a bunch of ogres working. I know that would require a ton of work...

What else is needed other than putting the monster spawns, and adding some tools and maybe a lantern?

Also, you need to make a little wheelbarrow full of dirt sitting off to the side somewhere. It doesn't have to actually work, just something to enhance the feel of the environment.

And some shovels. =)
I'm not sure, however, where to find an FGD containing the func_detail entity. Or I'm terrible at navigating.

Edit
Never mind, apparently the info about the func_detail is contained in the documentation on the TyrUtils website.
Apparently, I'll need to modify the FGD myself, and if I want Skip, Hint etc. I should also make an external WAD for that. Not a problem at all.

[MadGypsy]

@what else is needed

Well, I meant actually working... ie digging, chiseling, etc...

Creating the illusion of work is probably sufficient.

[Admer456]

I'm not sure if the ogres come with any animations other than idle, move, get hurt, attack and die.