Quakespasm project - need help with a RL model

[ChristianIce]

Ok, after decades working with Darkplaces, I thought to give Quakespasm a try, since you all love it.
So, MDL models, 256 colors textures with Quake palette and so on.
I have an issue with model editing, can't get MDL to work even if they are actually model saved by QME 3.1
I use a Q2 model editor, export in md2, load it in QME and save it as mdl.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, totally random.

What I need is the mdl (which is on the zip with every other format I have) to work, because apparently if it's a "valid" mdl I can edit it, without touching the number of verticles and faces, otherwise adding anything to the model breaks up.

In the picture there's the raw and reskinned rocket launcher, in the files there is an updated version which includes the parts I need to finish it.
I want to make a Q2 style animation of the rockets going in.

Here's the files:
http://www.templeofnoise.net/rocket.zip

Please, PLEASE, get me out of this nightmare
Cheerz.

[ChristianIce]

FIXED
I've found this tool that can actually handle the md2 to mdl coversion correctly:
https://richwhitehouse.com/index.php...showproject=91

Cheerz.

[Seven]

Hello ChristianIce,

I remember you were doing magical things with Quake some time ago. Very advanced stuff.
And now you want to give up all of it ? You must not be serious. Because "we all" love Quakespasm ?
Who is "we" ?! You mean the 5 people here in this forum ? Please do not make a mistake.
When you give up all the advanced engine stuff you restrict yourself until it chokes yourself.

Best example is this v_weapon model. You cannot even make it run in QS.
You have to reduce the skin texture size. 512 is too big.
You have to reduce the format. MDL wit all its restrictions.

Remember, when you create something big and beautiful that only runs on advanced engines, then people will USE the advanced engines for it.
They will not hate you or kill you for it. If your content is great, everybody will cheer you and are happy to use whatever engine it needs.

Always remember, DP disabled its gameplay fixes in 2013 for a stupid reason (to make even more people dislike it).
When you enable them for your mod/TC again, nobody will even notice they are running a different engine.
Except the round particles, which can be transformed into square ones with a simple particlefont.tga.

Please do not limit yourself just because many people want to stick to an engine that only keeps the look of vanilla but lacks so much potential, needed for modders like we are.

Anyway, you asked for help with that model and I converted it for you:
DOWNLOAD

Put it into your mod .pak and Quakespasm will eat it without errors.
As you already know, your texture does not fit very well to your model because it looks like you combinced 2 or more models and your allignment got messed up.
I didnt touch it. It is exactly like it was in your .zip.

Have fun modding with a non-modder friendly engine

If you need help anytime, just say a word. I will be happy to help.
Best wishes,
Seven

[ChristianIce]

Hi Seven!
So nice to hear from you!
Don't worry, I didn't "give up" I just decided to start from scratch with a different approach.
I am working on a release that will push the "vanilla" quake to its best (well according to my taste), using mdls and quake palette and all the qc i can come up with, and when it's done I'll see how to push it with a modder friendly engine.
One problem with powerful engines like darkplaces is that there're a lot of possibilities, yet you are kinda left alone in figuring out how to implement it.
One example is the skeletal animations in the client.
I hit the head on the wall for weeks to make it work, I managed to do it, I hacked it in any possible way, but the code is sloppy, bacause along with the engine there's almost never a working to code to look at that actually works properly, only instructions on "how to do it", which requires a knowledge in coding that I don't have.

As for the model, I know all the UV was out of place, that wasn't the issue.
I managed to fix the issue using Noesis, which converts md2 to mdl properly.
I'm in the process of skinning it as we speak:

Cheerz man, and thanks!

[Mr.Burns]

That's looking really nice Christianice. Keep up the good work

Kind regards
Monty

[Seven]

Hello ChristianIce,

The joy is on my side to hear from you too
Always good to see that good modders are still working with Quake.
I am excited to see what your new project is about. It will surely be great.

Regarding your topics:
In my opinion advanced engines are there to make the life of modders easier. That is the main purpose.
They give us features and possibilities to achieve things that are hardly possible with regular engines.
Increasing limits for bigger maps, etc. is of course mandatory.

Quake players are special people though.
They on one hand say that they do not want to change a single bit on how vanilla Quake looks but on the other side they request more and more features from the advanced engines.
The funny thing is: Take FTE for example. Spike put a lot of effort in it to get the vanilla look but at the same time gives all the new features.
What is the result ? Still noone uses it.
It is unbelievable for me. How stubborn Quake players are.But at the same time contradictory.

One things is for sure: If you are planing to do a "mutator" mod. Like the Unreal game mods work. Or like the SMC works.
With the purpose to be used with every vanilla Quake map to add some more features/ambience. People will not use it.
They say: We want to play Quake maps how they were meant to be played. The SMC users are an exception it seems.
But if you are planing to make a Total Convertion, you have to bite the dust and add maps as well. And that is too much work for 1 person.
But lets see how things wil progress... I hope I am wrong.

Regarding the documentation about skeletal animation client side:
Yes, that is an area where no man has been before. And that is why you are left alone and have to keep penetrating engine devs to learn more.
Or the supertalented modder Nahuel who put his mighty foot on that ground once.
Yes, that applies for all client side stuff except HUD, which have been done several times now.
Hint: You should look into the Kleshik code to see more client side things/features. That is the only source which is full of very advanced features to learn from.

For all the rest of the advanced engine features, you will find lots of source/code/mods already. Well documented and mostly focused on Darkplaces engine.
As to vanilla mods: They have been hammered out for 20 years now and I think almost everything has been made already.
So there should be no problem to find sources to learn from as well.

As you see, Quake is a very modder friendly game per se.
If we combine it with modder friendly engines, there seems to be nothing we can do wrong. But the truth/reality is sometimes different ;-)

Looking forward to hear + see more from you.

All the best for your project.
Seven

[ChristianIce]

There you go
The animation took me forever, the mdl format really is a pain in the ass.
Now I'll grab a beer and start considering if using Quake 1.06 or Quakeworld as a basecode, because Deathmatch is something I really don't want to ignore.
Gotta find a name for this thing too...
Beer will help for sure.
Cheerz!

[Seven]

Hello ChristianIce,

Good to hear about your progress.
And Thank your for your gift.
You did a really fantastic job on the animation: "Smooth as butter" (is a saying in germany, hehe).
And your texture work is 1st class as well. It matches the original Quake feeling 100%.
I love the worn look in the middle of the weapon and around its edges.
(tested it in Darkplaces)

How is your progress going coding-wise ?
What are the main features of your mod ?
Do you already have a clear vision of how it will be like ?

All the best for your project,
Seven

[ChristianIce]

I will start with the weapons set, working around the same mood/quality I did for the R, building a DM set that is "still Quake", but without renouncing anything DM should offer.
Every weapon will have an alternative attack so for example the shotgun will alternate the barrels ans shot faster, or shooting from both barrels together, slower but deadly.
Similar things with the other weapons: Machine gun, Plasma, grenade, light, rocket, rail.
then I will take care of the sounds, same thought process... keeping the mood but aiming to a modern mix, more variety, body and footsounds, randomization etc etc, so you won't get bored by the same "hoop" sound over and over, which, let's be honest, is kinda silly during DM
Same things for monsters, they will have the same mood but sound like a movie.
Already did the ambient sounds, using the original CDs from Sound Ideas, scavaginf them to find the actual sources and recompiling the pack with 44.100 stereo sounds.
You can already find it around, I called it "Quake Eargasm".
Knowing the the time required for mapping and putting together an episode will be very, very long, I decided to start with a solid DM code.
On this front, I'm not sure how to proceed.
Should I use Quakeworld code as a base?
Regular quake?
What kind of code would you suggest that already has a bot support, CTF, maybe clan arena...
I mean, I can start coding that afterwards, but I know it's a pain in the ass because you'll have to go through everything you have already done and rewriting it with "if self.bot == 1"...
I had the impression that the latest QW code has already a support for visual weapons, so maybe that's the best place to start.
Any input?

[ChristianIce]

Anyway, thanks for all the words!
I guess all the weapons will have that "rusty, worn" feeling... those are 20+ years old weapons, anyway

[Seven]

Hello ChristianIce,

creating and using a single player mod is far more simple compared to a multiplayer mod.
Everybody can download a SP mod, put it into his Quake folder and start it up and enjoy it right away.
The problem with multiplayer mods is that you need to setup a server and (most important) you will need multiple players
The latter is a thing that is very difficult nowadays.
If you plan on making a multiplayer mod you should first get in touch with the multiplayer players.
To be honest, I do not know if they still exist nor where they hide and which forum they are using...
You named some of the more known multiplayer mods. But are they still used/played ?
I think the Quake community is already very small and it seems that the multiplayer community is almost dead.
If you still plan to make multiplayer mods, you should get in touch with them and ask for their opinions. This forum is a dead end for this.
Mr.Burns knows a lot about the multiplayer community. He will surely be able to give some tips and hints in this regard.

Implementing bots into single player mods is rather simple. The frikbot is espcially made/famous for this.
You can quite easily implement it into any existing SP mod. I never tinkered with it but read a lot about it.
There should be an included readme.txt that shows you how to proceed.
You will also find hundreds of waypoints for the frikbot (that is the AI so to speak for the frikbots to "know" different maps).

Best regards,
Seven

[ChristianIce]

Yeah, probably I didn't express myself in the right way
I don't want the mod to be a multiplayer only mod.
I just want to build it following a path that will make sense to me, so after the weaponry is complete, testing it through some bots action will help me evaluating, enjoying, maybe coming up with some new DM mode... who knows.
At that point i will start working at the SP, possibly with the help of some mapper that may like the feel/look of it.
Since I know i can also use Quakeworld code to build a SP campaign, I was undecided on which code to use as a base.
For example, if there's an engine that supports QW visual weapons and also single player (nQuake?), I would start with that, otherwise there's always Darplaces anyway, not to mention everything Spike does

[ChristianIce]

P.S.
Another thing is, and that's a crazy idea of mine, that it would be fun to have Quake monsters able to chase you, anticipate your targets, jump and take cover (instead of simply "movetogoal")... borrowing the code from bots

[Bloodshot]

It's all quite possible, Nehahra's AI was very much like you described, and they could even figure out how to chase you through maps with multiple height differences

I actually did a basic cover test a few months ago abusing .goalentity, custom paths, and checking against monster health