NewDM Revival

[Lightning_Hunter]

I've already built waypoints for some of those since the last release of the definitive Frikbot pack, while others are already on my to-do list (I currently have about 150 maps on my to-do list). I'll bump them up to the top priority. Once I complete more of the maps on that list, I'll go ahead and update the entire Frikbot pack. At the moment, there are probably about 40-60 maps I've already added since the last release.

Has there by any chance been interest in updating the Frikbot code since our last discussion?

[Lightning_Hunter]

I checked out ab2.bsp and did some waypoints for it. Very interesting map. Due to the size of the map, and the amount of small spaces - I ended up with 7 waypoint files! That's the most I've ever had for a map by 2 whole waypoint files! I had to associate .wa5 and .wa6 to notepad specifically for this map. lol.

I was watching the bots play for a little while, and realized they NEVER visit the upper area, or the areas with the two buttons that trigger the traps. Basically, they don't visit any area with a button. This has nothing to do with the waypoints, but rather the lack of incentive for the bots to visit these areas. It got me thinking that perhaps this map needs incentive in those areas - for humans as well! For example, some more armor could be placed on the top levels, and perhaps a weapon or two. I think more spawn points are also needed on the top levels, so players and bots start up there (there are only 10 spawn points on this map anyway). This would prevent everyone from getting so cluttered in the water rooms and areas with the crates. What do you think, Monster? Agree, disagree?

Edit: I also think the yellow armor and red armor need to swap places. The trap is more worth-wile with red armor sitting there, after all. A rocket launcher would also be great near the button on the top floor (the one that draws the bridge).

[Lightning_Hunter]

Sorry for triple post.

I've made a discovery with the Frikbots! There is something that has always baffled me, and that is when the Frikbots decide to choose one of two buttons to active something, and it is sometimes the wrong button. For example, in APDM1 there is a red armor behind a secret door that requires a shootable button (func_button) to open. However, there is also a trigger multiple behind the door so that it opens from the inside. When you give a waypoint a door flag for the bots, they go for the trigger multiple instead of the func_button. This results in them getting stuck in front of the door, since they can't activate the trigger multiple from the outside. I can't believe I never thought of this before, but the order of the buttons in the .ENT file dictate which button the Frikbots go for! In this case, the trigger_multiple appears first in the .ent file. If you simply swap positions with the func_button, making the trigger_multiple appear last, the bots go for the shootable button instead!

Sorry for the long description. I'm sure nobody cares, but this means I can go back and add support to a few complex button sequences in previous maps with a very simple .ENT edit.

[bta.monster]

Sorry for the late response... =P Saw your posts late at night before I was about to sleep, was going to respond the next day put it totally slipped my mind.

hmm, nope... unfortunately no updates with Frikbots :\. The bots on NewDM are really just meant to get a game started. Still an update would be nice. I haven't heard from Supa in awhile, but there is a chance she might be cooking something up in terms of FBX improvements.

hehe so far i think ab2 is the coolest DM3 remake I've seen so far... 7 waypoint files... my goodness.. and that ones not even the biggest in that list! Yes! Totally agree with the more spawn points and items idea. There are some maps on newDM that i've edited with ent files to spice things up a bit. I can create an .ent file if you want, but you probably know that map way better than me already. I've actually never played on it aside from running around in it with some friends.

O_O very nice discovery. crazy, the order in the .ent file influences that... would never have thought. hehe.

I care! and I'm sure FrikaC and others would. I love using .ent files, especially with Darkplaces, theres no modifying of the actual .bsp with QBSP necessary, it just loads the map, and if theres an .ent file for it, replaces the entities. Really simplifies the whole process... Excited for these new waypoints.

[Lightning_Hunter]

hmm, nope... unfortunately no updates with Frikbots :\. The bots on NewDM are really just meant to get a game started. Still an update would be nice. I haven't heard from Supa in awhile, but there is a chance she might be cooking something up in terms of FBX improvements.

It sure would be sweet if even a few of the bugs on that list were fixed!

7 waypoint files... my goodness.. and that ones not even the biggest in that list!

I've actually waypointed maps much bigger than ab2, but for some reason I ended up with more waypoint files than ever before. I think it was due to all the tight turns, tunnels, underwater areas, and other such obstacles that require a lot of waypoints. I was very shocked to see that I had dumped 7 waypoint files! I ended up with 6 waypoint files for any32. Not quite as much as ab2, even though it was a much larger map.

I've actually already gone ahead and brought the number of spawnpoints on ab2 to 19, as well as added a few more weapons and one more armor. I think it's much more balanced now. The bots still enjoy the underwater area the most (which also seems to be the case with humans online for dm3), but they will travel to all areas of the map frequently now. Observing the bots for a while certainly does give you an idea of how balanced a map is. If the bots naturally visit all sections of the map, then it means everything is where it should be - at least from my experience.

[Lightning_Hunter]

Hey Monster, do you have any idea how to get the pentagram of protection above the roof behind the bars in cctdm1? I'm not referring to the pentagram you can obtain through the rocket launcher room trap, but the other one. It looks like a teleporter gets you there, but I can't figure out how to get into the teleporter room...

Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out! I noticed the crack in the wall with the button inside that you have to shoot. Now to get the bots to use this sequence properly...

[bta.monster]

Yeah I've really been wanting some changes myself in the Frikbots. After awhile of playing them it gets really boring, since they basically do the same routines over and over...

more spawn points are always good . didn't know about that pentagram, i actually haven't looked around that map too much. i'm excited for this next pack of waypoints... I think i made a few waypoints for a couple maps, but i can't remember which ones. I don't think I really refined them, just put them in so the bots wouldn't be totally lost. :p

[Lightning_Hunter]

I'm adding waypoints to the map "go2hell" right now, but there seems to be a lot of secrets I can't find. I can't figure out how to access half the map! I found a secret door in a room with a Nailgun that I can't open. I also found a shootable button that activates a red armor trap, as well as a cross that teleports you inside a cage that you can't get out of. I can't find anything else! Monster, any clue how to access the rest of the map?

[bta.monster]

haha, ah that one. metchsteekle and I literally spent a few hours scouring the map trying to find a way into that hidden part. I don't think its possible... the only way to get into the room with the LG is by spawning there. The mapper STALKER, might have disabled the other part for some reason, Metch says he remembers being able to get over there before, i think in a previous (or later) version of the map.

We haven't been able to get into touch with the European player/mapper STALKER but I might send him a PM and see if he answers.. :p

oh... btw, theres also a hidden ring of shadows in one of the windows if you haven't noticed :p. The map is very scarce on ammo too i've noticed.. in NewDM people often run out of ammo.. maybe this version is a previous, unfinished one. gotta see if i can talk to stalker about it :p

[Lightning_Hunter]

oh... btw, theres also a hidden ring of shadows in one of the windows if you haven't noticed :p. The map is very scarce on ammo too i've noticed.. in NewDM people often run out of ammo.. maybe this version is a previous, unfinished one. gotta see if i can talk to stalker about it :p

Yeah, let me know if you get any responses from him in regards to this! It might be interesting to edit the door in the room with the Nailgun so you can simply shoot it open. That would allow access to the other portion of the map. The door is already set as func_door_secret, but with a targetname that apparently isn't in use, at least not that I've found. In the .ENT file, there is a trigger_once that has the same targetname, but I couldn't find it anywhere. If you remove the targetname, you can access the secret room. Ammo wouldn't be too hard to add, either. If this is an unfinished version though, then it would definitely be great to receive a finished version from the mapper!

I did manage to find the ring of shadows. I actually no-clipped around the map and shot everything in site for about 10 minutes - finding only the ring of shadows and other secrets mentioned above. That's cruel of a mapper to make you think something is there, when it really isn't. Lol.

[bta.monster]

whoa.... just figured out how to get to that secret Thanks to peg... :p

you have to shoot the angel above the red armor room in the head multiple times until you hear the secret noise and go2hell prints on the screen. Then go back to that inverted cross with the demon head, it should be opened up. Going straight into it will take you to the LG room, but if you lean towards the left while going in, it'll teleport you into "Hell" . can't believe i spent hours trying to find the secret, could have sworn i shot that same angel before.

i can see it being difficult to get the bots to go into the right tele area though. one of the most cruel secrets i've found in a map before. ;D

[Lightning_Hunter]

I can see it being difficult to get the bots to go into the right tele area though. one of the most cruel secrets i've found in a map before. ;D

Actually, getting the bots to use the teleporter on the left side is easy. There was a more challenging secret teleporter in Ztndm6. See 0:19 of the Frikbot demo: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsBLJd3fDag[/ame]

The diffictult part of this secret, however, is that the Frikbots absolutely do not understand the trigger_once entity that opens up the "go2hell" door (they were never programmed to understand it). If I simply change it to func_button, they understand it, but there is a minor side effect of the button suddenly appearing in the game (it's supposed to be invisible). This isn't a huge deal, and in fact - might help people find the secret a little easier online. I think this is the best solution. While I'm at it, maybe I'll add a little ammo to the map - since I'm already editing the .ent anyway.

Edit: How do you access the underground library in the "hell" area? Is there a way to jump over the fence near the Rocket Launcher without using a Rocket Jump? I see a little hole in the ground near the RL, but have no idea what it is for.

[bta.monster]

There's no way to edit the func_button so that its invisible? but yes, it'd be easier for people to figure out the secret... its really difficult otherwise without help from someone. Yeah that map is definitely pretty sparse on ammo, only a few nail and rocket packs iirc.

here's a screenshot i took of getting to the library in the 'hell' area:




you have to shoot the side of the wall there, and it slides open, allowing you to jump right in.

[Lightning_Hunter]

Ah, got it. Are there any other secrets I'm missing?

[bta.monster]

Nope... pretty sure that's it ;P