Authentic Model Improvement

[osjclatchford]

oh yeah, I still love the chillo one. it has real character and between us here and chillo himself we've all done a lot to make it better and better... I'll still keep it on file.
thats also the beauty of the moddb page. all the old verions remain for future retrospective preusal...

as for the other thing TM was saying about overly critical dick'eads.
Yeah, I'll admit I might see something and think; 'thats nice but i'd personally like it to be like this' but I won't just say that, I'll give It a go myself first and then post my attempt. at least try to exhaust my own abilities on it before I ask someone else to do what Im trying and failing to. But I'd never have the audacity to outright say that someones design is "wrong" maybe say yeah its good, or different or an interesting alternative but not perhaps as authentic as it could be if trying to emulate an old style, but never wrong.
If I think its silly or not my cup of tea, I'll say so. I'll say if I think someones made something that just makes me think WTF is that all about? but its not wrong. because it cant be.
art it art. pure creativity and expression of emotion and will. how can that be right or wrong... as Ive said, easy to sit on the fence and critisize, I say 'keep your mouth shut unless you've at least tried to do better... '
I can understand critism of someone who claims to be the shit at something and the type boastful of his/her work that is clearly not deserving of such self praise but to tear apart a humble and genuine creative artist is to be an utter wank. pure and simple.

god Ive been moaning a lot of late... sorry guys...
this whole world crisis has enforced the realisation in me just how short life is and I'm not gonna be backward in coming forward about the things in life I see as unjust or unpleasant behaviour in people.
in truth, we have to be honest. there simply aint gonna be as many of us left in this world now as the next few years go by and this plague continues to ravage the population, so I think its about time we all looked at what we say and do and think about how it affects us all...
regrets are a waste of good drinking time...

[NightFright]

Well, we are not like that. Actually, I still believe our current ogre is great. But if you can have one that looks more like the model you know, it's also not a bad thing. There will probably be some folks who will go back to this one once we replace it...

[Tea Monster]

That was a constant problem over at Duke4 and Doomworld. It looked too much like the sprite/ not enough like the sprite. I want it to look like this, I want it to look like that. You can't please everyone. You have to do your own thing and be true to yourself.

[osjclatchford]

It's silly really. All this controversy over a 25 year old game...

Funny about the demon. It was you that put me into that one. I'd missed it getting released and had been using bloodshot's till you mentioned chillos here. It's a great model. I could not go back now...

[NightFright]

Lunaran and capnbubs, those are their two gods. But there are other good modelling artists out there. And yeah, if you add detail, ofc you automatically deviate. Even if you just add polies and nothing else.

I just know, besides the Ogre and Vore, we are done touching id1 models. Unless we get full remakes, e.g. for the Demon, which I think is quite ok, especially considering its rather complex leaping animation.

[osjclatchford]

@NF, theres nothing wrong with the model, but it does have some differences to vanilla for sure. otherwise why would we use it anyway?
just look at the chillo one, thats rife with artistic license! even capnbubs soldier has details that arent on the original. (studs on the helmet, different deets on the gun etc...)bet they don't bitch about that, though eh?
its punks that bitch and moan but do nothing but that. its borderline trolling that is in my opinion best ignored...

the ad hunter ogre gl was based on the player view model, but as far as I can see was solved by my changes to the skin. the original gun was a basic cube for christ sake.
so the new one has a tubed barrel and a rear-reciever and grip. thats the appropriate level of artistic liscence imho. it adds geometry but does not break-the-bank of authenticity...
and yeah, the posture is different. same thing with both the chillo ones. its is a different model after-all... if they want vanilla thay can bugger off and go play vanilla. or use the c0burn one if they want to...

also having read the post its clear they've not actually bothered to read what we are doing.
going on about oh, do it like lunaran made the knight.
if he bothered to read any of our to and frow on this he know that we are not making the model, just utilizing it for our needs...
always the same...

its just punks being punks man...

[NightFright]

Is anything wrong with the back or the grenade launcher? In the Func_Msgboard, one says the AD model isn't accurate regarding that, either.

However, let's first focus on what we know: Animations, that forgotten shoulder pad and head size. Geez, with all those adjustments, one wonders if a new model from scratch wouldn't be easier. (Kidding.)

(Slowly I am also getting tired of those Func wannabe specialists who basically prefer the original models over any improvement if it has even the slightest flaw...)

[Tea Monster]

I was wondering what that was!

[osjclatchford]

good luck TM!

also, I can see I must a missed a vector of the shoulder pad there (that bit sticking out of his left shoulder there shouldnt be there.) dont know how i missed that... perhaps it was hidden underneath the other shoulder bits before.

Oh, yeah, Nightfright previously mentioned his head is a little too square and I tend to agree.
I mention it now because if that is something you can fix, I don't know whether or not that would need doing before or after you do the animation skeleton thing...
If I'm too late and you've already done a lot to this by the time you've read this then so be it.
really excited to see progress. its great stuff man!

[NightFright]

The model itself is definitely usable and a good base for anything, even if you have to redo all animations from scratch (which will hopefully not be necessary).

[Tea Monster]

Here's what it looks like.

To your post: I might be able to finagle it so it works. It maybe that it's easier to just re-rig it. I need to arse about with it for a while.

[osjclatchford]

ah... that doesn't sound good. I take it you got similar results that bloodshot did then?
I must then assume he must have done the same thing for q1.5; port the sock model onto a different skelly...
funt...

any possible resolution to this issue or is it a case of "thats how it is" (aside from redrawing each frame becasue, yeah balls to that...)

[Tea Monster]

Oh, dear, the jello is strong in this one!
EDIT: I've parented the skelly and it's going to require a bit of editing. It might be better to just start from scratch. Again, not a great big hairy deal, but just time consuming.

[osjclatchford]

WOW! thanks TM, thats an offer I shant deny. I'd say this is the best model https://www.mediafire.com/file/jwgs7...25293.zip/file
this one is the last one with a good model and skin but the limpy-shuffle walk anim... the last one I uploaded before i went to bloodshot's q1.5 model with the dodgy vertex wobble...
Im pretty sure that if we could have good anims on this model it'd be the ideal replacement for the chillo one...
If it don't work out then so be it but thanks a million for giving it a shot.

[Tea Monster]

There was some issue with texture filtering with Q2. I can't remember the details, but there is one. Everything looks smeary. What ogre model are you guys thinking looks best? I can try and marry it to my ogre skeleton.