Would you....

[Baker]

In response to everything else you said, it honestly just sounded like pessimism and nothing else, a fear of the ambitious, only this time for once the ambitious project isnt coming from the wide eyed newbie, but rather an experienced member of the industry who likes Quake, and is willing to sacrifice his free itme for it.

I feel I am being realistic in regard to this particular project, but I am because it got a lot of publicity and has of yet -- to my knowledge -- to produce any concrete output.

Doesn't this project require 37 new Quake maps too? Engine coding? Countless new models? Remember, this has to be a TOTAL conversion -- Id Software said so for him to be allowed to use the name "Quake 10 Year".

The amount of things that must be completed for this project to go anywhere is higher than any other project and has -- to my knowledge -- a single contributing member.

Creating 37 new maps, 30-50 new models, QuakeC and engine coding in addition to the textures --- this is too much to expect from 10 contributors.

I'm sure he has plenty of talent to do some of the portions that relate to modelling, textures and even possibly mapping.

But on the whole, the scope of the project is very large to be someone's, to my knowledge, first Quake project.

[Canadian*Sniper]

LordHavoc has the answers you're looking for Baker.

[Baker]

Well, perhaps things have changed since then.

The Quake maps were released under the GPL *AFTER* this "must be a total conversion" thing was stipulated. So maybe the existing maps -- in some form -- could be used with new textures.

STILL, if the project were just Quake or very similar with new lighting, textures and models, I'm not sure how much appeal that would really have.

Anyways ...

[scar3crow]

Kedhrin's work was one of the motivators behind me pushing Romero to upload the .maps and to contact id on GPLing them. I knew it had a good deal of potential to aid him, that others could make use of them, and it brings Quake all that closer to being a free game - something Romero wants as well as many of us.

Creating 37 new maps, 30-50 new models, QuakeC and engine coding in addition to the textures --- this is too much to expect from 10 contributors.

Counting Reznor and not the business people who managed id in general, Quake was made by 10 people. I am not dismissing that Q10Y is a massive undertaking, but you really seem to just be needlessly pessimistic about it. Your lack of belief that it can be done should only play into if you have an investment in it - which you dont, at the worst, you will go without it, which you currently are doing.

But on the whole, the scope of the project is very large to be someone's, to my knowledge, first Quake project.

Does it not matter that he has experience elsewhere? He released NetDevil, hes a design lead on another project, he had experience before that, but since hes not released a Quake mod, as far as we know, suddenly that experience matters less in undertaking a project?

QuakeRoyale was a large project, a new QW client with vastly updated lighting, bloom, decals, vegetation, normal maps, and orthogonal rendering of the map simultaneously to have dynamic screen in screen automap complete with textures on display, and a graphical overlay - nevermind the game logic itself, and the bots, and the fact that he wanted to complete this over his own break. But he had little Quake experience before, so his other experience coding bots for Half Life, commercial bots for Soldier of Fortune, and being one of the main programmers on Prey mean relatively little?

It just feels like youre going a long way to be disparaging about a project that you have nothing to lose on.

[Baker]

I suppose I do have some strong feelings regarding Quake 10 Year in the sense that it got the benefit of lot of attention for about 1 year prior to the 10th Anniversary of Quake, only to not have anything tangible completed available for download.

If it had *something* or *anything*, even a single map or something very elementary available, I would probably not feel this way.

Additionally, I feel that if a project that had received the benefit of, what I feel was undue in hindsight consider nothing was completed, great attention but no output, at least the author could release his work so something might come of whatever he did.

At least I said it: It was so very disappointing that a project that had received so much attention and created so much anticipation did not produce anything.

There -- I feel better.

Perhaps this is unfair. This is what I felt. I'll quit talking about since this bothers you, and I don't mean to intentionally bother you.

[Monster]

A remake of quake would interest me of course. Something much more dark and grim with a fright factor sounds nice... I was playing through the quake SP with darkplaces RT world and all the eye candies turned on, and the quake music playing. Makes for a much more grim experience, watching the shadows of a grunt slowly move across the wall as you hear the unsettling and spine-chilling ambience of a baby crying in the background with the NiN soundtrack. I would play any re-make of quake. I doubt it could match quake itself, but it would be a great experience.

and about Quake10Year... I consider Kedhrin to be a professional. he works at Raven software I believe and has alot of things going on around him for one person to handle re-making all of the hundreds of textures quake uses. quake10year is one of the things I'm looking forward too, if it ever does get released. The screenshots of it are mind-blowing of how much detail is put into them. To run all of those textures on max detail, a damn monster of a computer is needed.

[scar3crow]

Monster - My goal with what Im currently working on is to outdo Quake =)

Kedhrin works at NetDevil, not Raven. Scampie still works at Raven iirc, and Lunaran used to work there but resigned recently.

Lets have more discussion of what youd want, specifically, in a Quake remake or sequel! This thread kinda derailed into a Q10Y debate =)

[Phenom]

Quake 1's Blood Sequel in my eyes.

Quake 1's weapons (Advanced graphics)

Quake 1's Physics + Objects have mass and can be moved, shot around

Quake 1's Monsters, Except Grunts, knights and Enforcers since they only seem to be associated with Shub and the "Base" theme of Quake 1.

Quake 1's sequel needs more then just a "Hero" These days when people play a multiplayer game they are given a choice of who they want to play as. Having more then one "Quake guy" to choose from would definitely outdo Quake 1 multiplayer on team games with this. Being able to distinguish your team by the way they look not just their color

Quake 1's sequel should show which weapon your enemy/teammate is holding instead of AXE/GUN.

Quake 1's sequel should have larger open areas which feel more atmospheric instead of the closed in "This is a level" feeling. the level should feel alive and interactive

Quake 1's sequel needs to keep Quake 1's grunge feeling meaning if you fire a rocket at your feet expect to take a flight.

Quake 1's sequel needs to have a story for single player not just a episode even if the story is just another segment of the Quake 1's universe. At the end of Quake 1 I honestly felt like "This is the end. no more quake's will be made"

Quake 1's sequel should NOT be Quake 2 Quake3, or Quake 4. those are not even close to the Quake universe except Quake 2's story.

I add Quake 1's sequel so many times in there to push that it needs a sequel not just another expansion or "Quake 2" game made.

[scar3crow]

Quake 1's Monsters, Except Grunts, knights and Enforcers since they only seem to be associated with Shub and the "Base" theme of Quake 1.

I know some are blah about the base monsters, but where does the knight fit into this? I always liked the knight, good for threatening hordes that arent overwhelming.

Various player models is more than possible, if thats all youre speaking of.

Visible weapons is also a very simple thing that would just be in there, period.

Quake 1's sequel should have larger open areas which feel more atmospheric instead of the closed in "This is a level" feeling. the level should feel alive and interactive

For the first portion, Quake was more enclosed due to the nature of BSPs, one of the solutions to this is the use of portals and using octrees rather than bsps. Another aspect is a heightmap supporting level editor, and good terrain collision. The rest is up to the level designer.

As far as the level feeling interactive... Quake is unique, not only was it not interactive, it didnt decorate itself as being interactive. Nothing bugs me more than the invulnerable chair, the bullet proof glass of water, or the rocket resisting rope. This was partially due to the brush based aspect of map design, as opposed to sectors and linedefs as seen in the Build engine, littered with sprites that could call simple functions. In order to do this, we would need a variety of models representing various objects, and at least rudimentary physics (going as simple as something like qc stick physics or Gyro) so they dont feel immovable or ridiculously elastic. This calls for basic decoration code (a misc_object, and various routines for it) along with the various images to depict it, and more importantly the hulls to define its space (not everything is the size of a player, a shambler, or a single point, despite what Quake says). Very possible, but needs good forethought in my opinion just to make it seamless and part of the world.

Quake 1's sequel needs to keep Quake 1's grunge feeling meaning if you fire a rocket at your feet expect to take a flight.

Thats not what I would call grunge, but that feeling should be retained, yes.

Quake 1's sequel needs to have a story for single player not just a episode even if the story is just another segment of the Quake 1's universe. At the end of Quake 1 I honestly felt like "This is the end. no more quake's will be made"

Agreed, though I am against cutscenes and such, personally. The player should know there is at least a little logic to why theyre still in this world (LordHavoc and I have come up with a few takes on this, along with SantaClaws and crimity). I still like the End of Episode Text, I just hated end.bsp's text.

Quake 1's sequel should NOT be Quake 2 Quake3, or Quake 4. those are not even close to the Quake universe except Quake 2's story.

The naming is a casualty of no good candidates for names for Q2 and then franchising from then on. I dont see how Q2 is part of the Quake universe unless you accept the backstory bit done by either ET:QW or Q4 - which feels odd to me. I think of them as separate things.

Im afraid that if I started talking about my own ideas here, it would just turn into a large public design doc...

[Baker]

I know some are blah about the base monsters, but where does the knight fit into this? I always liked the knight, good for threatening hordes that arent overwhelming.

I think that set of base monsters plus the scrag, fiend and shambler work really well for a base themes.

You already know this, of course, but I feel Lunaran's base monsters are awesome: the axeman (knight, but looks like grunt with axe), Grunt, Enforcer, Mega Enforcer, Enforcer Commander.

As far as the level feeling interactive... Quake is unique, not only was it not interactive, it didnt decorate itself as being interactive.

I like how Quake doesn't give the character any special treatment -- no narration and no cut scenes.

The world of Quake does you no favors, but doesn't do you any injustices either. You don't die a cruel death for no reason -- in otherwords the map do not insta-kill you anywhere.

Nothing bugs me more than the invulnerable chair, the bullet proof glass of water, or the rocket resisting rope.

Really? I like invulnerable maps.

Im afraid that if I started talking about my own ideas here, it would just turn into a large public design doc...

So what if it does?

[The Villain]

I actually think the best thing about Quake 1 was that a level was just that - a level. It had a beginning, it had an end that you needed to get to. Then you progressed to the next level and did it all over again. It was all so... claustrophobic, and I think that on a deeper level, that's what makes the game so great.
Allow me to explain:
I was playing Quake 4 SP the other day, and thought to myself... these levels have no real feel to them. They lack that claustrophobia. And having transmissions going in the background while you're running around shooting stuff up (transmissions which you end up missing most of) and then being given a new objective... it just doesn't sit well with me.
If i wanted to feel like I was at war, I'd play Medal of Honor. All I want, is a level to start, know that it has an exit, and that I need to kill everything in my way to get there (and maybe push the odd button or two along the way!)
It's that simple.

[Canadian*Sniper]

Agreed If I want to play a game with objectives, I'll load up my N64 and play Goldeneye

[Phenom]

I never said add objectives.. just a better story, or a story all together.. theonly time i felt like there was a story was when I ended an episode.. I'd atleast like to feel like "Ok I'm going here to get this. along the way im gunna kick ass and take names."

[gulliver-trans]

I'd vote for a sequel (actually had a sketchy plot idea for one once), but it's not like I have to lift a finger to make it happen.

Hmm. Might as well detail the intro. for my idea, since I'll never do anything with it....

Return to Quake: After the defeat of the Vadrigar (Quake 3), a clan of rangers is reunited in the arenas, but one of their number is missing.

After asking around, they come to the realization that the missing soldier never made it out of the Quake realm. Because "No Ranger Will Be Left Behind", they use the Vadrigar technology to slipgate once more. They know it's a one way ticket, but they are duty-bound. The mission to find their lost comrade and friend begins.

Stepping through the portal, they emerge in Shub's pit.

Shub is still dead, they are relieved to discover. And the lights have all gone out. But something is amiss. The bubbling lava casts dark shadows on the cavern walls.. and something, something is moving in those shadows.

A zombie shuffles forward. But this is no zombie like they've ever seen. This zombie is a patchwork - a regular Frankenstein creation - with a rocket launcher for an arm, gibs for the body, and... the decaying head of a Ranger? It's a wonder that it can even walk on those bloody stumps.

It doesn't see them - not yet, but there are more coming, stitched together with the parts of every dead monster and abandoned weapon - a procession of motley horrors.

But where did they come from? Who is doing this? Who is building these abominations? With no way back, they have no choice but to fight their way back to the slipgate where it all started - so many years ago. At least they have some new weapons to play with. They can only hope that along the way, they will find their lost friend, and maybe, some answers...

Something like that...
Heh. Surprised I typed all that out. Okay. Quake story time is over, kids. Anyhow, I was going to do that as a mod (in my dreams). It was supposed to be for coop.

Spoilers available upon request ^_^

[Baker]

Lets have more discussion of what youd want, specifically, in a Quake remake or sequel! This thread kinda derailed into a Q10Y debate =)

I apologize about debating the Quake 10 Year thing, I know there is a developer on the other end of it that has put a great deal of work into it and really I don't think I've been fair.

Everyone knew it was an ambitious project and probably wouldn't be complete by the 10th Anniversary of Quake and I think I -- maybe like some others or, know whos -- maybe it was just me -- would have liked to have seen a small sample of textures or a model(s) -- even if in development (alpha or beta) -- to inspire the imagination and give it more concrete feel -- something to touch and feel, in a way.

Yes, I know there was a demo movie.

I know I'm being unfair because I was never so hard on that awesome looking Quake/System 4 project that also received a lot of attention but was postponed, perhaps indefinitely.