You know what we need?

[Deigo]

A new kind of quake.shmack.net for experienced players.

Competition actually left the game and had a 20min discussion about how I was a cheater. I'm not even that good...

[Baker]

No, what we need is an essentially full-proof cheat-free.

I know that at least for me personally, I would prefer to be playing games where have a high level of confidence that I am not being cheated of a fair game.

(I believe cheating is very rare, but we all know of players who cheat and I do not believe in relying on the honor system.)

A stronger and more reliable cheat-free is very important.

And in the most bizarre of coincidences, some/most of this may actually happen this week.

[Baker]

Btw, Deigo ... I didn't mean that as in it isn't disappointing how easy it is get accused of cheating at Shmack (or win there), I meant it in a "if you couldn't cheat, there would be little point of accusing people of cheating" kind of way.

I know the few alleged instances of players cheating at, say, Rage or CRMOD.com is a deterrent to playing.

The entire time I've played Quake, the players who are most emotionally unstable have been the ones most likely to cheat -- not really surprising.

I mean of the players who have been caught or admitted to cheating at any server, few of them were really surprises.

[mithril]

You could tell the shmack cry-botters anything you want about how fool-proof your cheat-free is, but they would still call you a bot (surfergirl, scoffer, etc). They simply won't believe you. Besides, nothing can ever be 100% fool-proof.

[Baker]

You could tell the shmack cry-botters anything you want about how fool-proof your cheat-free is, but they would still call you a bot (surfergirl, scoffer, etc).

For a while they would certainly, maybe forever or maybe not. They do it now because they know any given player could be cheating and they are right.

Any player can connect there with any cheat any time they wish.

Cheat complaints/accusations in Quake are high because there isn't anything stopping someone from cheating.

Nothing can ever be 100% fool-proof.

Wallhacking is the worst cheat. Just as an example, DarkPlaces doesn't even send client positions to clients unless they are in view.

Bots don't benefit experienced players because they can already aim (unless they decide to blatently use one, but someone will notice).

Earlier in the year, when Canadian Sniper was really big into working on Whitehot, I liked playing there because everyone knew the lucky shots had to be luck, so no one feared getting accused of cheating if something bizarre happened.

[QuadRaptor]

Hey Diego, I'll give you a little advice the next time anyone accuses you of cheating - take it as a compliment. Even if the person saying it is being a dick, they can't prove you're cheating if you know you're not. (and besides, there are people who don't know the difference between a cheater and a good player). Don't worry about people whining and complaining, because most times than not they don't have anything better to do than criticize everyone else.

But anyway, if someone thinks you're cheating when you're not, it generally means that you're kicking some ass, so instead of thinking of it as a negative thing, take it to mean that you're a badass player.

I get accused of cheating/botting quite often, and for a while I got pissed off about it, but now when someone accuses me of it, I don't pay attention to it.

[mithril]

For a while they would certainly, maybe forever or maybe not. They do it now because they know any given player could be cheating and they are right.

Bots don't benefit experienced players because they can already aim (unless they decide to blatently use one, but someone will notice).

Surfer girl has accused me before of the "no death hack" - ie she says she hits me with a quad beserk rocket and I don't die. You will never convince someone like that that something is cheat-free.

Also, it doesn't matter how good you make your cheat-free code. Someone could program a bot to just have a very high efficiency LG but not 100% so that it would kill anyone but not be considered a bot. They could also program the RL to shoot at the ground/walls very accurately without actually landing a direct hit on you. Basically they could just program the bot to have a high enough efficiency to kill anyone but low enough that you're never sure if its a bot or just a really good player. How can you design a cheat-free to stop that?

[QuadRaptor]

Surfer girl has accused me before of the "no death hack" - ie she says she hits me with a quad beserk rocket and I don't die.

One of her binds goes something like "I WANT THAT PAK CHEAT OF NON-DEATH!!"

[foq]

Hey, if you ever see PlayeR, aka mark, kill him twice in a row in RA he cries bot.

What can you expect on shmack? The lower skilled players go there due to the higher skilled players not wanting to deal with newbie rune shit. It's thier refuge. They love picking up the kamakazi rune 5 times in a row and winning by the press of a few buttons. They can't handle the more skillful games that go on at pretty much any non-quake.shmack.net:26000 server.

Once a higher skilled player like you or me hop on and start doing well (you don't even have to win!!), you get called a bot. Espically if you don't die when Surfer Twat's drunken LG manages to hit you for half a second.

[spooker]

wawahh. its part of the server culture, and it is pretty fuckin funny, so just deal with it. part of it is that runequake is so crazy and varied that anything really can happen. for example, when you get the blizzard rune you can freeze almost anybody. except, however, if they have the ice spot rune or a biosuit. also, if they have the human fire rune, you can freeze them but just for 1 second instead of the usual 3. the first couple times, or even the first 15 times, you get the blizzard rune, you're unlikely to know this. btw neither scoffer nor surfer girl play at shmack anymore

[foq]

btw neither scoffer nor surfer girl play at shmack anymore

As the noobs leave, more come to fill thier places.

[How About A Fresca!]

A new kind of quake.shmack.net for experienced players.

Competition actually left the game and had a 20min discussion about how I was a cheater. I'm not even that good...

With all due respect, it's pretty much left the game since 1999. All the antics I see every year or 2 when I decide to play are consistent with how it's always been, ever since Q1 died out (in general, I know people still play). You just have to ignore it, or laugh it off.

[Baker]

With all due respect, it's pretty much left the game since 1999.

Certainly Quake is long past it's prime, but what Deigo means is he likes games with more skilled players participating at Shmack.

On the rare occasions it occurs, it is pretty fun if there are 7 or 8 really tough players in the mix at Shmack.

It used to be commonplace even in 2005, but ever since CAx was created more of those players are drawn to playing Clan Arena.

One reason for this is that players that commonly got accused of "cheating" (or so it seems to less experienced players) just preferred to play elsewhere (rather than be annoyed at the constant accusations).

/Btw, welcome to the forums

[How About A Fresca!]

Certainly Quake is long past it's prime, but what Deigo means is he likes games with more skilled players participating at Shmack.

On the rare occasions it occurs, it is pretty fun if there are 7 or 8 really tough players in the mix at Shmack.

It used to be commonplace even in 2005, but ever since CAx was created more of those players are drawn to playing Clan Arena.

One reason for this is that players that commonly got accused of "cheating" (or so it seems to less experienced players) just preferred to play elsewhere (rather than be annoyed at the constant accusations).

/Btw, welcome to the forums

Thanks for the welcome, and fair enough, point taken

The days when you could just hop on any one of dozens/hundreds of servers and get in a good 4-4 pickup game are obviously long gone. When I get nostalgic for that, I've resorted to customized frogbots to get my fix, although obviously it's not the same but hey