Ca

[mithril]

What will it take to GPL the CAx mod? Seriously...? I went to the downloads section and couldn't find the CAx mod there. Do I need to beg?

[Canadian*Sniper]

Can quake mods that aren't standalone be GPL'd? Is there even a point?

[Yellow No. 5]

This has been answered like 30x but anyways...

Mods are not subject to the gpl license....just quake engines. A mod author can release the code with whatever license if he so choses but has no obligation to. R00k and bam have no intention of releasing CAx as there is no need and that would make it less secure. That's also why crmod has never been released.

[mithril]

Can quake mods that aren't standalone be GPL'd? Is there even a point?

Of course they can, provided the authors want to.

This has been answered like 30x but anyways...

Mods are not subject to the gpl license....just quake engines. A mod author can release the code with whatever license if he so choses but has no obligation to. R00k and bam have no intention of releasing CAx as there is no need and that would make it less secure. That's also why crmod has never been released.

I understand that they have been unwilling to do this, but my question is why. CAx is one of the most popular quake mods currently and it appears very difficult for someone to get the mod and set up their own server. If they are unwilling to make the mod free, perhaps it is time to create a GPL version of it.

[Canadian*Sniper]

Of course they can, provided the authors want to.

But the original progs.dat source code provided by id software was never GPL'd (if I recall correctly)

[Baker]

R00k and bam have no intention of releasing CAx as there is no need and that would make it less secure. That's also why crmod has never been released.

Well, is that a statement of philosophy or ideological slogan? Or is that a statement of fact?

Because really, that can't be statement of fact.

You could have ProQrack server run a CRC of the progs.dat to verify it was authentic Rook-made build for tournament purposes *AND* also GPL the mod.

If a server operator was hard set on cheating, they could certainly rig the server engine to have a different damage calculation based on player name. Or make the anti-wallhack have a hole to exclude themselves.

How can CAx be argued to significantly protect against cheating because the source isn't available when wallhacking was rather common 2 months ago and botting is quite possible even today? If you want secure games, it will require a secure engine and nothing the mod does can help.

I'm only mentioning this because I think knowledge is important and I don't think bad reasoning makes a good argument. CAx can be closed source for a number of reasons, but I think the "security reason" doesn't hold up well.

/By the way, I would have asked JPG if he were interested in releasing the source of CRMOD (and I believe he would have) if I had thought it would benefit the community. But Slot Zero now has vanilla DM match mode in RuneQuake identical to CRMOD, and RQ has a lot more built-in capabilities so I think it would be WAY easier to someone like Bam to build-down RQ than build-up CRMOD.

[Baker]

But the original progs.dat source code provided by id software was never GPL'd (if I recall correctly)

The original progs.dat wasn't GPL. I think it was public domain, someone like FrikaC (or anyone at Inside3d) would know.

Public domain is perfectly compatible with the GPL. Which is why mods like Artifact-RJS, RuneQuake and RQuake are GPL.

Can quake mods that aren't standalone be GPL'd? Is there even a point?

You seriously need a GPL education. You should make friends with Cheapy :d

How can you know LordHavoc and be a DarkPlaces user and not know the value of the GPL?

[Canadian*Sniper]

I've already read about the GPL license like a month ago when I was doing research for NewDM. But that's not going to stop me from slapping you around for making that comment.

[Yellow No. 5]

that can't be statement of fact blah blah....

The statement of fact is that they have no obligation to release the source. In addition I offered some explanation of why. There are countless possible ways around any problems created by an open source mod, but it's still easier just not to release it.

Don't agree or don't like that reason, fine. Another reason is R00k doesn't want to release it. Be mad or instead you could just be happy he spent 3 years making a really fucking awesome mod for a type of gameplay he neither likes nor plays.

Also, it's not whatsoever difficult to get the mod, you just have to ask.

[omix2]

The statement of fact is that they have no obligation to release the source. In addition I offered some explanation of why. There are countless possible ways around any problems created by an open source mod, but it's still easier just not to release it.

Don't agree or don't like that reason, fine. Another reason is R00k doesn't want to release it. Be mad or instead you could just be happy he spent 3 years making a really fucking awesome mod for a type of gameplay he neither likes nor plays.

Also, it's not whatsoever difficult to get the mod, you just have to ask.

I liked CA+ more, so excuse me while I not give a fuck.

[R00k]

I liked CA+ more, so excuse me while I not give a fuck.

Omi u liked ca+, nice, i was a co-developer of that mod, it had its time and it's place, and btw rockets were only 100pts damage and the radius was linear, like quake3 so if u like CA+ then u go play RA3. CAx is Quake1, CA gameplay with "PLAYER" REQUESTED features! So, go play CA+, and "not give a fuck", by yourself.

[QuadRaptor]

The only thing I didn't like about CA+ was the fact that you spawned in the same place in every round. In my case on DM3 I always spawned somewhere where I'd get double-teamed real easily, such as RL or SNG, and the other team would just keep doing the same thing to waste me before I could play.

Other than that, CA+ was alright.

[R00k]

Yes QR, This was one issue resolved in CAx via 'true random spawns'
plus we added more spawn points, most which arent hit unless its a big game.

CAx was a total rewrite of Clan Arena. It took us 3 years to get it stable. (2 weeks playable) In those 3 years it was playable but people like bizarro_monkey, Bam, Yellow#5, Baker, and all the players!!!! made this a community effort.

[Baker]

So, go play CA+, and "not give a fuck", by yourself.

CA+ was a great mod in it's day, but the shortcomings of that mod get clear really fast.

Phenom and I did a lot of experiments with CA+ while we were waiting for Rook to help us with a custom warp menu for Dredd last year and because CA+ comes on Fatpipes servers by default.

In addition to the spawn in the same place problem, it really likes to crash.

In fact, you can crash any CA+ server merely by warping it to E1M2, starting a game and it crashes on the first frag.

If mod didn't have those flaws, it wouldn't be that bad but it also lacks pq_teamscores support where the team frags are totalled in the HUD by ProQuake and Qrack.

[Stung]

The ubiquity of splash--even if "default" as designed by quake--in CAx is still a huge annoyance; heavy cerebellar training is required for shafting, so one could argue on a neural basis that CA++ was indeed the more skillful mod, as cerebellum training correlates positively with the health of the Prefrontal Cortex, involved in planning, working memory, etc.

I would be curious to see what Baker thought of this argument, in the context of possible lowering CAx splash a bit (is that heresy or healthy, or is this a false dichotomy?)