I want to create

[SirSavage]

Hello all,

It has become apparent to me that I really want to be some kind of moder. Every now and then I find myself looking at forums like this and being interested in the cool stuff you people create.

I posted in the introduction thread something like "how do I make a game?" and now feel that that might be jumping the gun a bit.

So what I do want to know is; how did you moders get started? Is this strictly a self-taught hobby? Did you get a degree in programming? Do most moders have a common background? Are there general moding strategies (like never mod alone/always mod alone...etc.)?

Thanks,
Will

PS if it would help to know more about me and what I'm looking to create just ask.

[R00k]

Mod Quake: Getting Started

and yes, mostly self taught...

[SirSavage]

Thanks for the help.

I'm afraid though I might need a little more. See I'm not really even a computer person, I just want to be.

Here's a paragraph taken from the webpage you sent me; I've highlighted in red everything I don't understand.

"After you have edited a .qc file, and you have executed qccdos.exe IN the Progs dir, you will find a file named PROGS.DAT In the /quake/mygame/ directory. You can then exit to the root Quake dir, and run Quake with the-game mygame line, which will cause quake to look for data in the mygame directory before falling back to id1. You can then play with your patch."

I look at that text and feel motivation draining from my frontal lobe into cyberspace. Maybe there is another simpler tutorial, or video tutorial?

Thanks again and thanks in advance for any help.



EDIT:

Okay so I've been looking around that web site a bit more and it does get a little better. But now I want to know

1. Why mod with quake 1 and not quake 2, 3, or 4 ???

2. Can you profit ($$$) off a quake mod you make ???

3. Can you animate sprites into a 3D quake game? I'm an artist and wanted to make a mod where everything looks like comic book art.

Thanks again-again

Will

[terminus]

I wanted to do quake maps at one time. Then I figured out how hard quake mapping is.

I found something else I wanted to do.

Unreal mapping was pretty easy though.

"After you have edited a .qc file, and you have executed qccdos.exe IN the Progs dir, you will find a file named PROGS.DAT In the /quake/mygame/ directory. You can then exit to the root Quake dir, and run Quake with the-game mygame line, which will cause quake to look for data in the mygame directory before falling back to id1. You can then play with your patch."

That explanation is pretty straight forward. If you're cooling off there, you have a very steep mountain to climb.

[SirSavage]

Yea I guess Unreal could be an option. I guess I just started with quake because I am a big fan of all 4. I played THE HELL out of the quake 1 demo when I was a kid.

I found something else I wanted to do.

So you gave up? or you found another way to make your game?

anyways what I don't get about the text I posted is

1. How you execute something IN a directory

2. What a root directory is

3. How to run something with a game-mygame line.


But yes, I definitely want to explore all options and make an informed decision before I start work on mine and my friends idea.

[zylyx]

You are not focusing hard enough. In a brink of excitement to get something done is where most people fail, like me. Look at it carefully and re-read it. Try not to trick yourself into rellying on being spoon fed info on how todo things.

[R00k]

Ya, pretty much the bottom line to success is the yearning to achieve.
Sometimes it's easier to get into by starting with an idea. If you have a goal set then you can learn the tasks required to reach the goal. From there you can create more goals and keep learning.

[SirSavage]

You are not focusing hard enough. In a brink of excitement to get something done is where most people fail, like me. Look at it carefully and re-read it. Try not to trick yourself into rellying on being spoon fed info on how todo things.

Spoon fed? I just wanted to know how people get started and I was given a link to how someone who is already a programmer gets started modding.

And I'm not asking to be spoon fed answers to those 3 points I posted above, someone just posted a response that sounded kind of like "Whats not to get" so I showed specifically what I thought was out of my reach.

I guarantee the burning desire will come if I determine that the game I want to create is possible to create.

So, I'm not even sure if my questions are reasonable enough to be answered by people here but they are:

1. What would be the best game for me to mod

And

2. Can someone profit off a modified game ( I know half life has a bunch of quake code in it )

Thanks for the info.

Will.

[R00k]

You cannot legally make a mod for $, unless you purchase a license and even then you must create all of your own content.

[metchsteekle]

1- acquire a thing for stuff: http://tremor.quakedev.com/QCide_1.81-dist.zip (Justin Thyme - QCide)

2 - acquire some stuff for a thing:http://tremor.quakedev.com/Clean_v106qc.zip (same site as above but lower on the page)

3 - associate the stuff with the thing and [associate yourself with the stuff] by having some file like objects like /zomgshitz/quake/mi mawd/Qfn'C (stuff and thing in Qfn'C)
(note thing ad stuff in same folder like object is easyer than thing and stuff in separtae folder like objects)

4 - RTFM'ses

5 - filler

6 - find inspiration (H. P. Lovecraft) and or (the Complete works of H. P. Lovecraft) or be a REAL MAN and BUY THE BOOKZ ...DAMMIT ([ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUq_gBa_8iQ]YouTube - blink-182 - Dammit[/ame])

7 - find help and samples to try (Inside3D - I only had one Officer, Mr. Keg.) and (Inside3D Forums :: Index) when shit goes sour

8 - eight, i forget what eight is for ["" of violent femmes]

9 - keep trying

[Paradise]

Learn DOS; C++ and take programming classes. Of course you must know math too!

Create your own game??

Well this one is very old, and tools are too! Nowadays they create much more sophisticated games.

I strongly suggest you use some sort of free sandbox like FarCry's - where you get feel of how level is created.

Of course that program itself cannot be used to make commercial stuff.

As for profiting of Quake mods - fat chance no wai - cuz nobody cares about it except us (which are very few) and know-it-all-hard-core-programmers in gaming industry are very busy with new things to bother with old stuffs.

Be prepared for lots of learning from basics; you must know computer basics before even stepping in programming as field, even more when you go to classes. Because if not, you will not understand anything!

Best path for you to take is go to college for it, fight for internship somewhere and then see if you got what it takes.

It is also up to you; if you can do that work. Modding and game-creating is very frustrating because you gots lots of codes error-checks to do - one letter incorrect - and whole thing flops!

O.. and field is already saturated.. which means you already gots lots of competition ahead of you and that you must prove yourself.

If you ready for all that, remember last thing: never stop learning.

-T.

[SirSavage]

I don't think I'll be going back to college for this. I believe Rook said moders were mostly self taught anyways.

Well to all the people who sincerely wished me well I sincerely thank you.

I DID happen to find a set of simpler instructions out there:
"We aim to provide you with all the information, examples, and resources you will ever need to create Quake II DLL's. If you've never programmed before, our Tutorials will get you up to scratch fast! Then move on to writing full-blown modifications in C and/or C++. We will cover development in all sorts of environments, including professional ones (MS VC++ and Symantec C++) as well as freeware alternatives"
Quake2 DLLs

I'm glad I checked up on the GNU after you guys told me you can't profit off a quake mod because it turns out you're wrong. In fact here's a quote directly from id's website:
"Many people don't realize exactly what releasing the source under the GPL means, or understand how to exploit the opportunity to use it. Thus, idTech3 is perhaps one of the most under-utilized game technologies available. If you have a team that is long on talent but short on cash and need a proven engine to develop a game that CAN be distributed commercially, it doesn't get much better than "Free". If you abide by the GPL terms, then this technology is truly a gift from id. Unlike some "bargain" licensors, we don't impose ANY restrictions on your distribution channel (retail, internet, etc.). This is the perfect way to get noticed as a company or design team, as you can do something cool - and get paid, too."
As I mentioned earlier all the art would be done by my friend and myself as our goal is to make a pen and ink comic book world arena/labyrinth type game.

As for my competitors. . . I'm not trying to make the next Far Cry I'd rather make the next Braid.

Again I don't want to sound indignant, so to those of you who tried to help, thank you.

Bye.

[R00k]

1- acquire a thing for stuff: http://tremor.quakedev.com/QCide_1.81-dist.zip (Justin Thyme - QCide)

2 - acquire some stuff for a thing:http://tremor.quakedev.com/Clean_v106qc.zip (same site as above but lower on the page)

3 - associate the stuff with the thing and [associate yourself with the stuff] by having some file like objects like /zomgshitz/quake/mi mawd/Qfn'C (stuff and thing in Qfn'C)
(note thing ad stuff in same folder like object is easyer than thing and stuff in separtae folder like objects)

4 - RTFM'ses

5 - filler

6 - find inspiration (H. P. Lovecraft) and or (the Complete works of H. P. Lovecraft) or be a REAL MAN and BUY THE BOOKZ ...DAMMIT (YouTube - blink-182 - Dammit)

7 - find help and samples to try (Inside3D - I only had one Officer, Mr. Keg.) and (Inside3D Forums :: Index) when shit goes sour

8 - eight, i forget what eight is for ["" of violent femmes]

9 - keep trying

LOL! thats the best post thus far!

[R00k]

Wait Savage, I didnt say most modders were self taught, I said I was.

Your best bet is to finish college. If your parents are paying for it now even better! This way you can land a job making good money quickly on your way to building your own Brand(tm). So play it smart and invest in your education.

[zylyx]

Dude, you aint gonna make money from a 13 year old game engine, especaily if you dont know how to even program. You cant "pick up" the language along the way. Also, if you are doing qauke modding, and you have no programming experiance, starting with QaukeC isnt really a good idea, due to the fact that the language was designed as a interpreted scripting language for people who already knew how to program in C. Therefore, it has a lot of things cut out, and has a few bad habbits.

Second, I'm in my 1st year of a 4 year Bsc Hons computer games technology course, and I'm busy finishing my pong game for the gameboy advance. Making even simple 2D games is not so simple, so keep that in mind. And I havent even touched real 3D graphics programming.

Also, learn and revise your maths, as you should be familiar with these concepts before even starting 2D game programming, let alone 3D:

- Basic trigonometry
- Integral and differential calculus
- Vectors (positions, scalar products, vector products, vector equations)
- Parametric and Cartisian forms
- Matrix Algebra aka the maths backbone of games programming
- and lots of other things

And this is all beginners stuff, by the way.

Also, if you want to make your game dynamic, i.e. have your game objects behave realistically in terms of their physical properties and the physical properites of their environment, you will need to learn dynamics (sometimes called mechanics), which includes things like:

- Kintematics
- A lot more vector maths
- Forces
- Newtons law of motion
- Even more calculus
- Relative motion
- Friction
- Turning effects of forces
- Centre of Mass
- Work, Energy and Power
- Momentum and Impulse
- Circular motion
- Simple Harmonic Motion
- Elasticity

And again, this is only begginers stuff.

And in programming, you must know the following:

- Use of a C++ compiler and IDE, for example, to prepare, compile and execute C++ programs
- Simple program structure with declarations, types and input / output
- do-while loops
- while loops
- for loops
- If statements
- If � else statements
- Switch blocks
- Break and continue statements
- Functions and parameters
- Pseudo-code/ programming planning
- Use of functions to organise program structure aka �procedural programming� - more C style
- Use of classes to cluster code and reduce parameter overheads aka object-orientaited programming - more modern C++ style
- Other types for data representation such as typedef, enum
- Bitwise operators
- Arrays
- Pointer variables
- Struct�s
- C++ Classes: attributes, methods, constructors
- Using STL (which is the Standard Template Library), which includes data types such as vectors, lists and stacks, for storing various types of data.

Again, the above ONLY scratches the surface or real games programming. Because you also mentioned that you also want to mod Quake 2 and make DLL's (if you even know what those are), you will need to know windows programming, and I dont even know that yet. And todo 3D games programming, you will need to know either OpenGL or DirectX, which are API's (application programming interfaces), used in games development for things like 2D and 3D rendering (DirectX does other things like input/output, sound, networking, etc) on specific programming platforms.

Start small, work your way up.

check this site out for more info: GameDev.net - all your game development needs