One Through the Head for Nostalgia

[Radec]

I seen loads of improved character skins on quakeone but if these are going into a new Quake game with improved graphics, are the people who are making it sure they can make it a good one?

Quake is no doubt one of the greatest games in the fps world and even today, its fun to play it. But think of the classic games where the first was a 1990's born classic and then its sequel comes out in the 2000's and it was total crap.

So if Quake is remade with better graphics, it wont be that great game we grew up with, it will be Quake 4 fighting Shamblers and Vores, woopdeefuckingdoo..

On the other hand if this game is being made and it could turn out better than the original and I'll be proved wrong.

Anyways anyone shed any light on this. Is there a new version of Quake being made?

[gnounc]

Erm what?

[Baker]

You didn't phrase your question in the form of an answer!

[Hazza]

To answer your bottom question, NO, luckily- Doom4 and Rage are coming up, and more likely will the companies work on Strogg-sequel games and maybe Wolfenstein a bit more. (and I think it's for the best at the moment).

Now, as for the question of CAN a developer actually make a Quake1 remake/sequel that doesn't blow big hairy donkey honkies- YES, I believe it is!

So long as the guys behind it have a good grasp on abstract horror, can think Lovecraft style, and are aware of the balance between the satanic, the gothic, the gritty, the hi-tech and the outright alien in Quake- and are imaginative and know how to balance straight-forward heavy gameplay with a more solid, non-arcadey style (as standard for modern games)- it would rock.

And from what I've seen there ARE lots of guys that do 'get it' (Kell and Necros being the most noticeable examples, but they'd definetely not be alone).

So long as these guys form a company and get the licence, and spend time playing Quake, Armagon, Quoth, Half-Life (and OpFor), Half-Life 2 and Doom3- and probably Elite Force 1 and 2, to get a good idea of how to (and not to) harmonize Quake into a modern shooter, it could easily rock.

I'd have to go into more detail of specifics to make a modern Quake sequel good AND modern, but I think it's easier if we all bring up issues to discuss.

The first being, make sure Raven doesn't get the licence again. It's a strange pity, as although they *CAN* and *DO* make some awesome titles (they made Elite Force 1 and the Soldier of Fortune games), they suck at making sequels/remakes for OTHER shooters.
And personally, I'm starting to miss the Hexen franchise!
Even if they made some totally unrelated Hexen-themed medieval fantasy shooter I'd be ALL over it!

[gnounc]

[email protected]

[Radec]

To answer your bottom question, NO, luckily- Doom4 and Rage are coming up, and more likely will the companies work on Strogg-sequel games and maybe Wolfenstein a bit more. (and I think it's for the best at the moment).

Now, as for the question of CAN a developer actually make a Quake1 remake/sequel that doesn't blow big hairy donkey honkies- YES, I believe it is!

So long as the guys behind it have a good grasp on abstract horror, can think Lovecraft style, and are aware of the balance between the satanic, the gothic, the gritty, the hi-tech and the outright alien in Quake- and are imaginative and know how to balance straight-forward heavy gameplay with a more solid, non-arcadey style (as standard for modern games)- it would rock.

And from what I've seen there ARE lots of guys that do 'get it' (Kell and Necros being the most noticeable examples, but they'd definetely not be alone).

So long as these guys form a company and get the licence, and spend time playing Quake, Armagon, Quoth, Half-Life (and OpFor), Half-Life 2 and Doom3- and probably Elite Force 1 and 2, to get a good idea of how to (and not to) harmonize Quake into a modern shooter, it could easily rock.

I'd have to go into more detail of specifics to make a modern Quake sequel good AND modern, but I think it's easier if we all bring up issues to discuss.

The first being, make sure Raven doesn't get the licence again. It's a strange pity, as although they *CAN* and *DO* make some awesome titles (they made Elite Force 1 and the Soldier of Fortune games), they suck at making sequels/remakes for OTHER shooters.
And personally, I'm starting to miss the Hexen franchise!
Even if they made some totally unrelated Hexen-themed medieval fantasy shooter I'd be ALL over it!

maybe.
your right about one thing, only someone who has played Quake a hundred times could even be 1% qualified to make an improved Quake as good as the original.

THATS the problem with sequels these days.

A company makes a kickass game and then anouther company arrives and makes the sequel. Its just common sence that the new company will do something to fuck it up since they wont have the same 'heart' as the original.

i mean who the fuck is Splash Damage (what ever the fuck thier name is). They come in from no where and make the shit stack Quake Wars. there was no way they could make a game which was as good as former Quakes because they didnt make former Quakes.

anyways i think i'll stick with the original since the grainy poor graphics gives the game a feel that realistic improved graphics will loose and for that reason, an improved Quake will never be as good as the original because the original wa top dog and the only way is down.

[Fuzznut]

maybe.


i mean who the fuck is Splash Damage (what ever the fuck thier name is). They come in from no where and make the shit stack Quake Wars. there was no way they could make a game which was as good as former Quakes because they didnt make former Quakes.

Quake Wars is different direction for sure. Its more of a BF2 style game than traditional Quake. I think its pretty fun for the type of game it is.

Also did not Splash damage make Return to Castle Wolfenstein or something?

[Hazza]

The problem is id seems to just want to focus on Doom and treat the rest of their franchises as less important and something to give to one of their friends when they feel sorry for them.

But I have faith that Quake CAN transfer into a modern game, and fully accomodate all modern requirements (story, dialogue, ammo reload- whatever) and get it in the same vein as the original, or expand directly from it.

I mean, to be fair, the people doing the 'remakes' didn't exactly make a good game at all- even if it were a standalone title and not a sequel/homage.

The only other thing it needs is to be made by people who DON'T jump into fads (eg vampires, WW2 battlefield) and can tell them apart from sincerely contemporary features.
Also, they need to be able to adjust their style to not look too much like Doom demons or Strogg.
With that aside, and a Lovecraftian art style, they should do alright.

Which puts Kell, Necros and Ritual as good candidates- aside from id if they get back into the Quake1/Q3A artstyle mood.

I'm actually going to put up some artwork of my own soon, who knows maybe it will suit the style?

[Samus_Aran]

My breakdown of Id Software games is as follows:

Doom 1 & 2:
Really good mood and solid fighting, good sound, but level design/3D engine is limited to 2 dimensions which leads to overly repetetive levels.

Quake 1:
Excellent mood, solid fighting, excellent exploration, excellent architecture, excellent sound, AND DAMN SCARY/INTENSE!

Quake 2:
Only played the demo, utter garbage. Orange blood? Cubical orange gibs? Enemies that bend over to take a crap in the middle of a fight so you have to start aiming at everyone's feet? Flies that appear on monsters within seconds of them dying? Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking when they made Quake 2? Also, everything is comical/fake looking.

Quake 3 Arena:
Utter garbage, someone put a pack of Crayolas and some comic books into the dryer and turned it onto high heat. Major abuse of light effects. No single player. No deal.

RTCW:
Got bored after a few levels and stopped playing it. Everything is scripted and totally linear, everything in the level that you want to interact with is non-interactive, enemies are really stupid, etc.

Doom 3:
Only played the demo, utter garbage. Everything looks rubbery, monster AI is worse than Quake 1, enemies disappear after dying, everything looks the same, abuse of light effects, cheesy.

Quake 4:
Only played the demo, utter garbage, cheesy, fake, boring, repetetive. Just another copy of Doom 3.



Reviews of some non-Id Software games I've played:

Half-Life 1:
Amazing atmosphere, intense battles, best level design of any commercial game I've seen, best semi-linear level progression of any 3D game I've seen and incredibly long and detailed single player experience -- amazingly long, no abuse of light effects -- if there are glowing lights then there's an in-game reason for them. The only area in which I place Half-Life 1 below Quake 1 is in monster AI, because the monsters in Half-Life aren't as much fun after heavy repetition as the fiends and shamblers and so forth in Quake 1. I love the leaping face-huggers in Half-Life 1, and Quoth has nicely remade a similar creature, so Quake 1 wins for replay value.

Half-Life 2:
Really promising, but the cheesy zombies moans completely ruined this game for me. Completely. All I could think about while playing through the Half-Life 2 demo was about some guys sitting in a recording room trying to hold back laughter while making really stupid moaning noises into a microphone. It took me out of the universe completely. Sound is incredibly important for imersion in the world, Half-Life 1 understood this, having the best sound production of any game I've ever played. I couldn't make it through the demo levels due to the horribly fake zombie audio.

Penumbra:
I actually found this game almost too intensely scary, heh. Though once fighting some of the monsters, the flaws in their AI become painfully apparent, and it takes you out of the universe. Still, the scariest horror game I've ever experienced by a huge margin. Excellent use of long periods of calm silence to build up your fear.

Silent Hill:
Tried it out for about 20 minutes, got utterly bored by the scripted, painfully-linear gameplay, and god-awful forced-camera angles. This is simply a movie, not a game. I couldn't feel involved with my character in the slightest, which meant I didn't give a damn what happened to the character, no intensity at all, disinterested.

Thief: The Dark Project:
Loved this game. The graphics were only on par with the original Quake 1, but I loved the creeping around in shadows gameplay. Very realistic, and the combat as well, you couldn't take on more than 2 people at once or you were just doomed. I am debating if I should buy Doom III in order to play The Dark Mod, a fan-made remake of Thief games as a mod to Doom III.


All that said, I think it is highly unlikely that any game company would ever make a true-to-its-roots-and-faithful remake of Quake 1. There have been so many classic games that I have seen remade, and almost all of the remakes have just sucked for the die-hard fans of the originals!

Edit:

Fixed typos.

[Baker]

My breakdown of Id Software games is as follows:

Doom 1 & 2:
Really good mood and solid fighting, good sound, but level design/3D engine is limited to 2 dimensions which leads to overly repetetive levels.

Agreed.

Quake 1:
Excellent mood, solid fighting, excellent exploration, excellent architecture, excellent sound, AND DAMN SCARY/INTENSE!

Yes

Quake 2:
Only played the demo, utter garbage. Orange blood? Cubical orange gibs? Enemies that bend over to take a crap in the middle of a fight so you have to start aiming at everyone's feet? Flies that appear on monsters within seconds of them dying? Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking when they made Quake 2? Also, everything is comical/fake looking.

I hated Quake 2 but some people have a taste for it. I won't claim I have progressed meaningfully far in it, I have given it a few tries.

Quake 3 Arena:
Utter garbage, someone put a pack of Crayolas and some comic books into the dryer and turned it onto high heat. Major abuse of light effects. No single player. No deal.

You didn't comment on the cacophony of annoying sounds and the blandness of the gameplay!

RTCW:
Got bored after a few levels and stopped playing it. Everything is scripted and totally linear, everything in the level that you want to interact with is non-interactive, enemies are really stupid, etc.

Doom 3:
Only played the demo, utter garbage. Everything looks rubbery, monster AI is worse than Quake 1, enemies disappear after dying, everything looks the same, abuse of light effects, cheesy.

Quake 4:
Only played the demo, utter garbage, cheesy, fake, boring, repetetive. Just another copy of Doom 3.

Tried the demo of a few of those. I'm sorry but "reality" and scripts are the opposite of gaming and more like work.

Half-Life 1:
Amazing atmosphere, intense battles, best level design of any commercial game I've seen, best semi-linear level progression of any 3D game I've seen and incredibly long and detailed single player experience -- amazingly long, no abuse of light effects -- if there are glowing lights then there's an in-game reason for them. The only area in which I place Half-Life 1 below Quake 1 is in monster AI, because the monsters in Half-Life aren't as much fun after heavy repetition as the fiends and shamblers and so forth in Quake 1. I love the leaping face-huggers in Half-Life 1, and Quoth has nicely remade a similar creature, so Quake 1 wins for replay value.

Half-Life was a rather strongly put together game and a great extension of the ideas in the Quake engine.

Really promising, but the cheesy zombies moans completely ruined this game for me. Completely. All I could think about while playing through the Half-Life 2 demo was about some guys sitting in a recording room trying to hold back laughter while making really stupid moaning noises into a microphone. It took me out of the universe completely. Sound is incredibly important for imersion in the world, Half-Life 1 understood this, having the best sound production of any game I've ever played. I couldn't make it through the demo levels due to the horribly fake zombie audio.

Tried the demo. Amazing graphics and environment, boring gameplay. WAAAY too cheesy at times. Like the "Headhopper" pet.

Gordon Freeman's most boring adventure because it occurred on EARTH with ... of all things ... ZOMBIES.

[foq]

You didn't comment on the cacophony of annoying sounds and the blandness of the gameplay!

Dah! Dah! Dah! Dah! Dah!

[gnounc]

YouTube - Trio Da-Da-Da - 1982

[Hazza]

Wow Samus that is probably the best review of these games I have seen:

Entirely agree, with a few exceptions (or additions?)

-Quake 2 and Half-Life 2- awesome atmosphere, lame ass gameplay. Lacking the diversity of either originals, you just fight multiple variations of the grunt enemy from the respective first game- only of varying sizes and guns. Seriously, same tactic for EVERY Strogg and I rarely even get hit! And the Half-Life 2 zombies are shameful- the awesome mutant scarecrows from the first got turned into cliched walking dead that make silly noises- blah.

Quake 3- awesome artwork, awful lighting- fun but repetitive (some extra weapons and more complicated vantages in levels would have fixed that though).

Quake 4- bailing early was the right thing to do- it gets way worse.

[golden_boy]

Quake 2:
Only played the demo, utter garbage.

I could stop reading here, but...

Enemies that bend over to take a crap in the middle of a fight so you have to start aiming at everyone's feet?

It was 1997's try at improved AI. I could say similar things about Quake I's AI. Like "monsters that just run at you with a shotgun?".

Flies that appear on monsters within seconds of them dying?

It's a shooter - players aren't going to stick around until the corpses start rotting, right.

Also, everything is comical/fake looking.

That from a Quake I player. LOL.

Quake 2 at least has something like a story, which is at least somewhat reflected in level design (pods crashed through the roof, etc), and at least has rudimentary attempts to make the game a little more interesting, like the inventory, field computer, hub system, female player model, radio transmissions, bombarding planes, Gekk stealing an airstrike marker, and some really good DM maps. Model teams and Battle of the Sexes, Q2CTF, some REALLY good bots, the introduction of the railgun (since a staple), etc... not to mention technical improvements like light emitting textures and radiosity, proper rotating brushes, colored lighting (overdone, yes, but an improvement nonetheless), transparency... stimpacks, shards, interactive multiplayer maps... balanced weapon set... all things that would go on to become staples. Look at Quake Live.

It's not a bad game by any means. The engine was even good enough to spawn a veritable FPS craze, with games like SiN, Kingpin, Heretic II and others using it in different ways. The first mission pack has exemplary level design, by people who later made DOOM3.

Bad game? No. A game where they tried to do some new things, but the time wasn't ripe yet. A bastard, so to say. Half old school, with new school leanings. Half-Life did it right, then.

I'd rather have a game that at least tries to expand the box, even if it can't leave it behind yet.