Announcement

**Phenom** · 03-31-2011, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Baker View Post

... I have a great question ...

Where do you think the future of Quake leads?

The sky is the limit! (Within QuakeC standards. heh or am I wrong?)

**Mindf!3ldzX** · 03-31-2011, 11:28 PM

A public service announcement, brought to you by the EastSideXtremists

DEAL WITH IT !!!

**foq** · 03-31-2011, 11:42 PM

ITT: More lucrative talk of a brilliantly shining future we've heard of for months.

>If you are pessimistic, this isn't just the story of how Quake begins ... it is the story of how you got run over by events flat-out beyond your control and with you or through you, this train isn't going to stop. You will be run over by a locomotive which you will happen to like all the way.

>Implying I would stand in the way of a train

**gothiccandy** · 04-01-2011, 01:28 AM

Ok the way I see it is......... With as many players, fans, people needing an outlet, and family members looking to start a new "family game night" and coupled with the fact that you can piss someone off one week and before the end of the next meet up and "work things out" type of unity. Then Quake ( as well as other favorite.'s) will always be around. Like all good entertainment it may slow, only to come back twice as strong with new life and thats when the cycle will start again. Not saying that we are a"poster board" family but..... take ours for example, Mindz plays, he kept on & on now look at me I'm quite addicted, our son is now slowly starting to want to play,and yes I do believe that my "little mini me" (our daughter) will see and know just why mommy says "It's a hell-of-a stress reliever".

Hell Hubby installed Darkplaces, just to add customized facial textures .LOL damn them EX's!!!!

**Baker** · 04-01-2011, 07:32 AM

Aw damn, I drunk posted again. Hehe.

A friend twisted my arm and insisted I hang out and drink beer.

Still, I need to keep mouth shut and continue engine coding.

**Baker** · 04-01-2011, 11:15 AM

Rather than be absolutely quiet ... the one thing I will say is that a major achilles heal of the Quake engine is that it is coded in a way that makes it very hard to maintain and to some extent takes a lot of time to peer into how the different pieces work.

One solution is to just keep stitching new features on, like a zombie.

But I don't feel that is viable.

A different solution is decide to get your hands really dirty, disassemble the major pieces, streamline it and make it flow right and install some "glass" so to speak in the user interface that allows easier developer access to see what is going on.

Now the end result of that works like this: the engine can be easily modified and it can be done fast and reliably.

Then it is no longer a situation where making most modifications is messy, it gets to be a rather straightforward and clean process.

I don't want to leak the feature list, though. It would ruin the surprise.

**R00k** · 04-01-2011, 11:58 AM

Feature request #102:
Support for multiple cl_download_web_url values.
cl_download_web_url, cl_download_web_url2, cl_download_web_url3,cl_download_web_url4 etc...

or cl_download_web_url_server allowing the server to pass a value to the client so if the client's default value fails, the server knows where to get the file specifically.

**Baker** · 04-01-2011, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by R00k View Post

Feature request #102:
Support for multiple cl_download_web_url values.
cl_download_web_url, cl_download_web_url2, cl_download_web_url3,cl_download_web_url4 etc...

or cl_download_web_url_server allowing the server to pass a value to the client so if the client's default value fails, the server knows where to get the file specifically.

What if one archive has a different version of a model or .bsp. For example, there are 2 different FFA dead.bsp maps out there.

What if someone sets up an archive depot and doesn't know what they are doing?

I agree with the concept. Trusting a depot is a bit dangerous. I've been thinking about that issue. It was a fair amount of work to setup downloads.quake-1.com to work and the idea that someone who truly doesn't have a clue putting up a depot could contaminate many player's Quake folders with "wrong" data.

MH · 04-01-2011, 12:24 PM

The biggest challenge I found was maintaining support for mods. You'll often find lots of stupid quirks of the original code that many mod authors have come to depend on. Fix them and you'll break the mod (just witness the trouble DP has with some mods as a classic example of what I mean).

Any engine that's intended for use outside of a specialist niche simply must address this as a priority. If you don't support, for example, moving sky brushes on instanced bmodels (a whole world of yuck) then someday someone somewhere is going to find or release a mod that uses them and your engine will not work with that mod.

Cardinal rule #1 - if it worked in software Quake or GLQuake it must also work in a modified engine, no ifs, buts or ands.

**Baker** · 04-01-2011, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by MH View Post

The biggest challenge I found was maintaining support for mods. You'll often find lots of stupid quirks of the original code that many mod authors have come to depend on. Fix them and you'll break the mod (just witness the trouble DP has with some mods as a classic example of what I mean).

Any engine that's intended for use outside of a specialist niche simply must address this as a priority. If you don't support, for example, moving sky brushes on instanced bmodels (a whole world of yuck) then someday someone somewhere is going to find or release a mod that uses them and your engine will not work with that mod.

Cardinal rule #1 - if it worked in software Quake or GLQuake it must also work in a modified engine, no ifs, buts or ands.

Reading your commentary on Nehahra, Nehahra kind of grosses me out. And really although the ProQuake modifications JPG made were critical ... yes, I understand you don't think much of them but I do see things from the player perspective as those are my origins ... need to be finessed and put into a new protocol and done the right way.

I am thinking that within a few months may be the right time to discuss protocol stuffs @ Inside3d because really in this modern age, no one who can be taken seriously is using GLQuake [have the server kick them a message that you are using an old crusty Quake and give them a web site address to get modernized].

[You know, even though the first post was a "drank too much beer post" ... it's all true. I did a great job with that post, really. Although in the morning, I was like "Did I do anything crazy last night? ** thinking ** Groan ... yeah, I did

Ironically, it does speak the unvarnished truth ... this game is open source and we finally have a engine developer community mindset to really make differences that matter to this old awesome game. I get the idea that the average player reading the thread and with no specifics isn't going to understand what is going on ... and it matters little once the changes are delivered. Mindzy's post was my fave ... "A public service announcement, brought to you by the EastSideXtremists" I do tell Mindzy and Phenom stuffs

Well and MH, of course. I should really tell R00k too.]

A critical difference in my head between online NetQuake and other games is the fact we've got stable vertical integration [QuakeOne.com admins cooperate with multiplayer client developers and we all cooperate with server operators ... this is because the Q1 community so damn strong and tight knit and actually care about the game] to enact changes and do it on whim. Anti-wallhack spread to 12 major servers within 5 days as an example. So I'll just spit this out: 64 player support for a game organizing mega hub --- CTF players can go to a CTF section and await players ... CRMOD players can hang around the CRMOD section.

/No this is scarcely the only thing in the list. I thought mentioning 1 would be "fair".

MH · 04-01-2011, 07:24 PM

I've features built into DirectQ that let me snoop a little at what mods are doing behind the scenes (pr_show_stuffcmd, qc_debug, etc) and some of the stuff I see is quite shocking (that's one of the reasons why I occasionally turn up on the QC board at I3D and yell "don't do it that way" at people, by the way). I don't like to be hitting on Nehahra all the time as it can give the impression that I disrespect the achievements of the creators. That's not true, but I do find some of the decisions made to be very questionable. It's almost a poster case for how not to do things really. But then again it was 2001.

Very handy stuff for helping to figure out why your engine is misbehaving with a certain mod.

**Panix** · 04-01-2011, 11:47 PM

gb24chanf4gssrulesareforqueersstfu

**foq** · 04-01-2011, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Panix View Post

gb24chanf4gssrulesareforqueersstfu

Yeah, but has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

**Baker** · 04-02-2011, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by MH View Post

I don't like to be hitting on Nehahra all the time as it can give the impression that I disrespect the achievements of the creators.

I agree with that. I think Nehahra is really "neat" but you summed up it up well on your site "missed opportunity". Maybe the last time I ever bring up Nehahra weaknesses.

That being said, almost anything requiring an engine modification is a bit messy.

Kurok is a bit messy in places, I retconned some of the changes out and moved them to the config (and have access to the .qc source to repair).

Technically since Nehahra is open source, someone could retroactively "fix" it but I suspect the real trouble is in the demos.

/End Nehahra weaknesses talk

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