getting into level design (again)

[MadGypsy]

WAD files hold your textures and in the case of GFX.wad it holds the images for your HUD. Pak files are just compressed archives of game data. You may not have any texture wads because BSP's hold the texture data inside them. If this is the case, just go to the Quaddicted link GB provided (in his initial tutorial) and download a texture pack (WAD) that you like. Then place it in your ID1 folder.

To get the textures to compile properly: select any brush in your map and click view/entity inspector (or just press N). Then next to WAD: type the name of your wad and press enter. You only have to do this once per "new file"

To get Radiant to load a wad simply double click it's path in the texture browser. If there is no obvious path listed, it is because you don't have any wads in ID1 folder.

You are about to have a much more complicated problem though. I have downloaded every radiant there is (check em out) and they are NEVER pre-configured in the build menu to compile a quake 1 map.

Let me know when you get that far and I will explain it and point you to resources.

[Mike_Tyson]

You may not have any texture wads because BSP's hold the texture data inside them. If this is the case, just go to the Quaddicted link GB provided (in his initial tutorial) and download a texture pack (WAD) that you like. Then place it in your ID1 folder.

Okay, but what if I want the original Quake 1 textures? I think I would like to start with the the plain, normal textures from Quake. And I don't think they are there at Quaddicted (not sure, maybe they are - there are a great many files).

Let me know when you get that far and I will explain it and point you to resources.

Okay thanks.

[MadGypsy]

original id.wad

There are some really good texture wads in that list. I wouldn't be so set on the original quake ones. I downloaded the entire archive a while back and I have been ripping textures that i like from various wads and making my own custom wad. If I ever get to a point where I actually finish my map I will use a procedural texture editor and remake all the textures (as near as possible). The perk is that i will then be able to make gloss, luma, normal, etc maps and bring the map to life even more.

[Mike_Tyson]

Thanks MadGypsy! I could install the textures, and can now make textured brushes in Gtk Radiant! Now I can start modelling something very simple and try to compile. I'll report back regarding this if I encounter difficulties which I can't figure out myself.

I am not entirely focused on the original textures. It's just, that for my first experiments, I would like to use the original textures only because with these I am of course very familiar from playing the game countless hours, and I know what can be done and how they are combined for best effect.

But I will of course later want to integrate my own textures. Now I am just learning how to model, how to make a level etc. But I have one idea for a level which I want to realize which I have thought about for a long time: a Japan-themed level. It happens that I live in Japan for about seven years already. And I want to make a level whith a Muromachi-era/Fantasy theme (think Shinto shrines, Japanese palaces and castles), done Quake-style. Don't know if I can pull this off. For this I will need to have plenty of custom textures, which I want to make myself; I make fotos of textures in the real world which I like and want to integrate in the level, like the red of a shinto gate, or the yellow/brown and green borders of tatami textures. Then I want to postprocess them heavily and turn them into textures.

[Mike_Tyson]

WAD files hold your textures and in the case of GFX.wad it holds the images for your HUD. Pak files are just compressed archives of game data. You may not have any texture wads because BSP's hold the texture data inside them. If this is the case, just go to the Quaddicted link GB provided (in his initial tutorial) and download a texture pack (WAD) that you like. Then place it in your ID1 folder.

As I wrote, got it working. Can I copy my own, selfmade textures somehow into the WAD file? Because of the Japanese themed textures I'm working on which I mentioned.

To get the textures to compile properly: select any brush in your map and click view/entity inspector (or just press N). Then next to WAD: type the name of your wad and press enter. You only have to do this once per "new file"

You mean like this?

To get Radiant to load a wad simply double click it's path in the texture browser. If there is no obvious path listed, it is because you don't have any wads in ID1 folder.

It is listed, and if I click it it loads the textures fine. Just wondering, do I have to do this each time I start up Gtk Radiant or load a new level?

When I load a level I'm working on, apparently only the textures which I use in that level are loaded in the texture browser. I have to double-click the path to load all the other textures.

It's not too annoying, I just find it strange that it doesn't remember that I double-clicked the path and have already loaded all the textures previously, and am wondering if I set up everything correctly?

You are about to have a much more complicated problem though. I have downloaded every radiant there is (check em out) and they are NEVER pre-configured in the build menu to compile a quake 1 map.

Let me know when you get that far and I will explain it and point you to resources.

Yes, I think I reached that point. The pic above is the simplest level I think is suitable for testing the compiling, it's just a box with info_player_start and two textures.

I would like to compile this and and test it in my Quake (Dark Places engine).

So, happy that I can come back to you on this one. Thanks! And I am wondering, what is better, setting up Gtk Radiant for compilation, or compiling outside of Gtk Radiant? As gb was referring to "Bengt Jardrup's TXQBSP, and BengtLightColoured modified by MH" and that compiler GUI by the guy who did the awesome Altar of Storms...

[golden_boy]

It really doesn't matter. Radiant's internal build menu is basically just a script that runs the compilers. It's mainly for convenience, but you won't know what the different compiler options do until you try the compiling by hand / with necros' compiler gui.

[MadGypsy]

like this?

- like what?

the pic above

- there is no pic above

Yes, I think I reached that point.

- I wrote the tut the same day that I said to come back when you are ready Become a Quake Modder - Understanding Radiant's Build Menu

Pak files are just compressed archives of game data.

correction - paks are not compressed. I believe I read that later on in one of GB's tuts. I am not a pro. When I realize an error I correct it though. I actually had to stop writing "off-the-top" tutorials cause I make too many mistakes. The stuff in Become a Quake Modder (to my knowledge) is highly accurate. Many times I even do each step myself and then explain it. I spend time planning what i will write and then checking myself for accuracy. Other "quickies" by me, in other threads, may not be so reliable.

Don't rely on previous posts by me for minute facts. Don't expect future posts to include them.

Michael

[Baker]

correction - paks are not compressed. I believe I read that later on in one of GB's tuts. I am not a pro.

Yeah, paks aren't compressed.

[MadGypsy]

.....I am not a pro.

Was that intentionally quoted for no reason as an uppercut or a hook?

[Mike_Tyson]

- like what?

- there is no pic above

Apparently a problem with the permissions on the sites where I stored the image. I think I fixed it now and hope the pic is visible now.

[...]
Don't rely on previous posts by me for minute facts. Don't expect future posts to include them.

Well I haven't implied I expect minute facts have I. You make it sound as if I ask for help at each and any minute step, which I don't. Thanks for the link again to the Become a Quake modder thread, I missed that part somehow.

[golden_boy]

As I wrote, got it working. Can I copy my own, selfmade textures somehow into the WAD file? Because of the Japanese themed textures I'm working on which I mentioned.

Yes; you can import texture images into a WAD file with a tool called Wally. You need to shop around Google for it - maybe you can also find Wally here or at quaddicted. Maybe at QuakeTerminus, if that site is still up.

Edit; link:

Quake Terminus

Another similar tool is TexMex.

A WAD should include low res textures (64x64, 128x128 and so on). These are used for mapping and the compiler includes them inside the BSP file. You can then later load external hi-res replacement (TGA and / or DDS) versions by just putting them into the right directory for the engine to find.

It is listed, and if I click it it loads the textures fine. Just wondering, do I have to do this each time I start up Gtk Radiant or load a new level?

When I load a level I'm working on, apparently only the textures which I use in that level are loaded in the texture browser. I have to double-click the path to load all the other textures.

It's not too annoying, I just find it strange that it doesn't remember that I double-clicked the path and have already loaded all the textures previously, and am wondering if I set up everything correctly?

You did. It is the same for me. It gets less annoying once most textures you intend to use are included in the level - like you observed, those get loaded automatically.

Edit; I'm going to explain map compiling by hand now.

The compile process has at least three steps: QBSP, Vis and Light. Traditionally, each step is done by a dedicated command line program; this is why you're usually told to run qbsp, vis and light to compile your map. The original id software tools were called just like that.

In its simplest form, the process looks like this (let's assume your map is called mymap.map):

1. Put qbsp.exe, vis.exe and light.exe (or their equivalents) in the same directory as your .map files.

2. Using a DOS box / terminal / commandline, run these steps in order:

QBSP.exe mymap.map

This will create a BSP file from the .map file. It also needs to be able to find the texture .wad file ("wad" key in your map's worldspawn entity). Otherwise it will complain about not finding any textures and your map will appear white or checkerboard-patterned. This step also compiles your map for transparent water, if needed. Modern compilers do that automatically.

Vis.exe mymap.bsp

This takes the BSP file created by the previous stage and runs visibility calculations on it. You can use a -fast switch on the command line to accelerate this ("fastvis"). Once the map is ready for release, it should be "fullvised" (no -fast switch).

Light.exe mymap.bsp

This also takes the BSP file and creates lightmaps for it. Again there are a number of command line switches you can use, such as "-extra". These switches usually make the lightmaps prettier, but also take longer to compile. Some light tools will output a .lit file containing coloured lighting information.

3. Move the BSP file (and any accompanying files such as .lit) to the /maps folder of your mod (or to quake/id1/maps). Start your engine and type "map mymap" in the console to load it.

Like all command line / terminal processes, all this can be simplified by using a .bat file, a bash script, or a similar script that runs these steps automatically. Radiant's build menu, for instance, is a glorified bat file that does exactly that.

Personally I use a bash script since I'm on Linux. So when I want to compile a map, I just type "buildfast mapname" in my terminal and viola, out pops a BSP file that's automatically copied to my mod dir. The buildfast script is simply an automation of the process outlined above.

And for shits and giggles, here is my current buildfast script (LINUX! BASH!):

#!/bin/sh

cd ~/quake/tools/quest

#for e1m2rq
#~/quake/tools/hmap2 $1.map
#for e1m6rq
#~/quake/tools/bjptools/bin/treeqbsp -transwater -oldaxis $1.map

#wine ~/quake/tools/txqbsp/Txqbsp.exe $1.map
wine ~/RemakeQuake/engine/Experimental/BSP2Tools/TxQBSP2.exe $1.map

# -transwater


#~/quake/tools/bjptools/bin/vis -fast $1.bsp
#~/quake/tools/hmap2 -vis $1.bsp

#wine ~/quake/tools/WVis.exe -fast $1.bsp
wine ~/RemakeQuake/engine/Experimental/BSP2Tools/WVisBSP2.exe -threads 2 -noambient -fast $1.bsp



# for palace
#~/quake/tools/bjptools/bin/light -extra4 -soft -sunlight 350 -sunlight3 40 -sunmangle 45,-45 $1.bsp

# for e1mx
#~/quake/tools/bjptools/bin/light -fast $1.bsp
# for e1m6rq
#wine ~/quake/tools/bengtlight/Light.exe -threads 2 $1.bsp
wine ~/RemakeQuake/engine/Experimental/BSP2Tools/LightBSP2.exe -threads 2 -fast -soft $1.bsp

#~/quake/tools/hmap2 -light -extra4x4 $1.bsp
# -extra4

# removes skip surfaces
#~/quake/tools/newskip/newskip $1.bsp

cp $1.bsp ~/SJ_work/maps/
cp $1.map ~/SJ_work/maps/
cp $1.pts ~/SJ_work/maps/
cp $1.lit ~/SJ_work/maps/
#cd ~/quake/

The # are comments, so you see that most of the lines aren't actually used. The $1 means "substitute the first argument given to this script". As you see, there is also a skip program in there, which I ni longer use because the BSP2 tools include this functionality. At the end of the script, the generated files are copied to the maps/ dir automatically.

I'm sure you can write a batch file that does the same in Windows.

[MadGypsy]

Well I haven't implied I expect minute facts have I. You make it sound as if I ask for help at each and any minute step

Relax man, I wasn't talking to you. It was a public service announcement. It's written like that cause it was like 3 paragraphs of rambling explanation. I edited it down to 2 sentences. The only point is, I get minute facts wrong too often to keep writing them.

[Mike_Tyson]

Thanks gb - I could now compile my simple level exercises I did under Gtk Radiant on the command line! Now I'm on to the modelling...

I also prefer the command line. This way I know much better what's going on and have more control, and can write my own scripts and do my own personal workflow.

A question about the versions/compilers we are using. I downloaded the compilers I am using from the homepage of Bengt Jardrup, which you recommmended in an earlier post in this thread. Here are name of executable, version, and from which archive I got it from:

• Txqbsp.exe, TxQBSP 1.13 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup, http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/txqbspbjp.zip
• Vis.exe, Vis 2.31 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup, http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/visbjp.zip
• Light.exe, Light 1.43 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup, http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/visbjp.zip

I noticed that you seem to use different executables: TxQBSP2.exe, WVisBSP2.exe, LightBSP2.exe.

Are these also from Bengt Jardrup? Or is "BSP2Tools" an entirely different beast?

(LINUX! BASH!):

[...]

I'm sure you can write a batch file that does the same in Windows.

Yes, and I wanted to recommmend something for all other Quake modders who prefer for whatever reason to work under Win 7, but do not want to go without the power of Linux: Cygwin

This is one of the coolest things ever done. It adds a POSIX layer to Win 7. This means you have bash and all the tools you expect from Linux in Win 7. Not as emulation, but natively. You can compile Linux source code natively. You can have an X server and run X windows together with Win 7 windows at the same time. And many, many other cool things. Your productivity under Win 7 will skyrocket with cygwin.

This is not to start a Linux vs Win 7 fight! Linux is great. But Windows 7 plus cygwin is great, too. Just wanted to recommend this in case anyone doesn't know it already. Win 7 and POSIX is not an antithesis anymore with cygwin.

Relax man, I wasn't talking to you. It was a public service announcement. It's written like that cause it was like 3 paragraphs of rambling explanation. I edited it down to 2 sentences. The only point is, I get minute facts wrong too often to keep writing them.

Ah okay. Sorry, I took this the wrong way.

[MadGypsy]

I also prefer the command line. This way I know much better what's going on and have more control, and can write my own scripts and do my own personal workflow.

There is nothing wrong with using the command line, but everything you just said can be done in the build menu as well. I'm not trying to poop on your statement but the command line adds ZERO functionality and actually it sort of decreases functionality. All of your build options are now outside of radiant, somewhere else.

My build menu is totally sick. I currently have it set up to:

1) Run the current map in the engine you choose
2) Build using ANY of the most popular compilers/tools (including newskip)
3) Open my last QC session

Number 3 is the real important one. Now my notepad++ and my radiant are linked in their menus. I can launch either from within the other. My notepad++ also compiles QC. So you see, I never have to search for stuff. I never have to navigate around to find a compile.bat. Shortcut menu in notepad++ and build menu in radiant bring my entire (mini) pipeline together into 1 interlinking unit. I am a matching skin away from confusing people into thinking they are one big program.

Hmmm, a skin...

Need to go find out if radiant can be skinned. I already know notepad++ can.

[Mike_Tyson]

Hi Gypsy, this sounds cool. I guess many different ways of building a workflow are possible. By the way I am using Notepad++ too, it's one of the best editors out there!