SP: What makes a Hall of Fame map/episode?

[Baker]

There have been several Quake map review sites historically. The only truly active one presently is Underworld Fan at http://underworld.planetquake.gamespy.com/

At the Underworld Fan site, there is an outstanding Hall of Fame, it can viewed at this link:

http://underworld.planetquake.gamesp...qclassics.html

Some of the other map review sites that reviewed Quake maps in the past:

Team Shambler        http://teamshambler.planetquake.gamespy.com/
Quake Map Hotel      http://hotel.planetquake.gamespy.com/
Quake Level Heaven   [url]http://hosted.planetquake.gamespy.com/spq2/quake1/index.htm[/url]
RetroQuake           [url]http://retroquake.planetquake.gamespy.com/[/url]
Ten Four             [url]http://tenfourmaps.telefragged.com/[/url]
Ethereal Hell        [url]http://ethereal-hell.telefragged.com/[/url]
And probably many others

I think the Hall of Fame at the Underworld site is the single best resource for deciding where to start playing single player maps and episodes.

1. First because the site is actively maintained and includes many things that existed only after the other sites closed.

2. Second because the Hall of Fame at the Underworld site appears to be incredibly bias-free. The maps in the Hall of Fame are there because they are great maps regardless of who made them.

Some of the old review sites seem to have a disproportionate amount of reviews by some authors -- but I wasn't playing single player back then so who knows maybe there is some sort of explanation for this I am not aware of. Maybe you had to submit a map for review or something --- couldn't tell you or maybe certain authors excelled at drawing attention to themselves. Might be a logical explanation.

3. The Hall of Fame at the Underworld site, because it was made later and not earlier reflects upon maps as they stood the test of time, not on "buzz".

The Underworld Fan site has the Hall of Fame pretty much down pat. To me it is remarkable of how carefully constructed the list is.

Everyone has their own personal preferences and no one would ever agree with a list to a "T", I wouldn't even agree with my own list from last year

So ... what makes a Hall of Fame map?

Is SM82 Rubicondom a Hall of Fame map?

Is Duke of Ontranto a Hall of Fame map?

I think most people would agree that Day of Lords is a Hall of Fame map, but why is this one such a shoe-in?

I don't have any answers, just questions. Seems like an interesting thing to think about.

[scar3crow]

o_O

You left out Single Player Level Heaven!

Which does have its own Top 10, and a section at the bottom for previous top 10 holders as well. Also he crafted a few good maps himself that are worth playing.

What makes a hall of fame map? Here is my short answer because I have class in 20 minutes. Good game flow and difficulty adjustment in a non-linear environment that rewards, even just allows, exploration. Anything that never makes me think "thats not Quake" but instead "That is Quake", yet have not seen before.

I could write a whole lot more on this, which is why Im forcing myself to stop right now. Cursed classes.... There is a lot that makes a good single player level. Unfortunately, most of those elements are still only in the user made communities.

[golden_boy]

His list is OK, but I always thought it was a bit too old-school and some things are just questionable.

The maps that got top ratings by him should get into the hall of fame, as well as some later ones. Some that I miss:

gmsp3
kinn_marcher
nastrond (just played this again, it's got "quake factor".)
could
ac
ant

and Lost Chapters.

Some others deserve to rank higher, among them sm32, Zerstörer (top spot IMO) and Beyond Belief (OUM better than BB? Kidding?!)

What makes a Hall of Fame map?

1. Quake factor.
2. Creativity, artistry, style.
3. Accomplishment (speedmaps don't count.)

What is quake factor? A mixture of oldschoolness, hardcore gameplay, and visual style. Examples are ant and nastrond.

An example for category 2 is gmsp3. The quake factor is somewhat lower, because it doesn't feel like typical Quake. It transcends Quake (size, textures) while preserving some of its elements. Like I said earlier, it could be part of a Quake sequel (the real Quake 2.)

Category 3 are maps like kinn_marcher.

Most others are a mixture of sorts.

Is sm82 a HoF map? Good question. I'd say no (I'd also say no to sm36, though.) The map is well made ("solid" is the word here) but often too uniform and predictable.
It's a good map, but it reminds me of a quake2 base. Endless streams of shotgun guards in some kind of bunker system.

[Baker]

His list is OK, but I always thought it was a bit too old-school and some things are just questionable.

I personally hope that Underworld fan keeps his current Hall of Fame in an archive if he ever updates it.

It is old skool, but didn't he write it in 2002 +/- ?

The maps that got top ratings by him should get into the hall of fame, as well as some later ones. Some that I miss:

gmsp3
kinn_marcher
nastrond (just played this again, it's got "quake factor".)
could
ac
ant

Those are all very good maps. It's part of the reason I started a thread. I thought Duke of Ontranto was a very fun set of maps and enjoyed playing it more than gmsp3 or any of those listed above.

Should fun and enjoyment be a factor and if so how does that weigh in?

and Lost Chapters.

Some others deserve to rank higher, among them sm32, Zerst�rer (top spot IMO) and Beyond Belief (OUM better than BB? Kidding?!)

I think Zerstorer narrowly edges out Insomnia as the top spot. I think Insomnia is a better all-around episode than Zerstorer, but Zerstorer is incredibly unique.

I enjoyed OUM and haven't played Beyond Belief (yet). I know OUM is old, but those mega-enforcers really were done right in Lunsp1 or whoever re-skinned/sound fixed them.

What makes a Hall of Fame map?

1. Quake factor.
2. Creativity, artistry, style.
3. Accomplishment (speedmaps don't count.)

Yeah, #2 certainly does it for gmsp3 and #3 for Marcher Fortress.

Also the second I saw Tim Elek's Nehahra map and and played it -- wow, that was so so imaginative -- well, that's an example too. That one, like Marcher Fortress wasn't so much #1, but the creativity factor.

Where does fun or the actual gaming experience come into this though??

The ones I like the best provided the best game play to me plus some combination of awe, or if not awe, something else to draw my interest into it (immersion?).

[golden_boy]

Those are all very good maps. It's part of the reason I started a thread. I thought Duke of Ontranto was a very fun set of maps and enjoyed playing it more than gmsp3 or any of those listed above.

I haven't played it, simply because it didn't obviously seem like my type of map. I like small and middle-sized maps with the focus on frantic gameplay, done in a style that resembles episodes 1-3 of original Quake ("high quake factor".) Thus my love for stock Quake maps, Beyond Belief and maps like Antediluvian or RPG's "Quake Condensed". SM57_pulsar_se would also fit this mould, for example. Can you see why I like Zer better than Insomnia?

Should fun and enjoyment be a factor and if so how does that weigh in?

Of course it's a factor, but that's extremely subjective. You can somewhat "measure" quake factor, gameplay, architecture etc. but fun is totally subjective. From that POV, a hall of fame or "ranking" would make little sense because every player's list would be different.

You're right that UWF's list is overall pretty good, though.

Where does fun or the actual gaming experience come into this though??

In UWF's hall of fame people could vote, and gaming experience (is that the same as atmosphere?) probably was one of their factors in voting. In this way, it's representative.

However, some of the newer maps are missing. Come on, gmsp3 is better than sm36. :-)

Edit: I'm downloading fc1, just so I can say that I tried it ;-) From the screenshots I take it he used Hexen2 textures combined with id episode1 style - let me be honest, it doesn't mix. Especially the stained-glass Quake windows and the fragile Hexen2 things --- next to each other --- ...

But we'll see.

I'll post comments in the Ontranto thread

[underworldfan]

thankyou Baker for your kind comments.

I am going to update my hall of Fame page soon, to also include more recent maps.
look for an update on my website soon!

[Baker]

I found a couple of broken download links on your site yesterday, if I can remember what they were, I'll email them to you.

You might save the current Hall of Fame like as the "old one" somewhere. Really the current Hall of Fame represents mostly the first 5 years of Quake, but it would be cool to not forget those as I know some maps will get bumped.

[underworldfan]

Dont worry, i will probably leave the "old" hall of fame exactly as it is.
I will just add a new separate section for the newer maps.

[underworldfan]

here is my new page, as promised

Q1SP hall of Fame 2

http://underworld.planetquake.gamesp...classics2.html.

gmsp3 owns.

[Baker]

Looks like there are some maps in there I haven't played :d