Map Jam 2 - news item?

[dr_mabuse1981]

Those maps are so awesome, are they using Quake BSP ?
I thought something like this isnt possible with Q1BSP o.o

[nahuel]

Those maps are so awesome, are they using Quake BSP ?
I thought something like this isnt possible with Q1BSP o.o

mmm maybe are bsp2, a "special" q1bsp with extended limits, and many func_detail you can compiled with TyrUtils utils compiler

[Seven]

ericw and szo implemented spike�s bsp2 support around end of last year into quakespam as far as I remember. sock�s readme points out that the maps have been designed and tested with that engine. So from that point of view some maps could be in bsp2 format, but reading the thread at func will surely disprove/approve speculations and will leave no open questions

Anyhow, this is a great successor to map jam1 !
Thank you very much to all participating mappers and to shambler and sock for bringing them together.

You guys are great !!

[Johnny Law]

None of these use bsp2. bsp2 use is still uncommon.

[sock]

its funny how the Quake community is so fragmented and each community has got no idea what the other sites are doing. I really do recommend that everyone here visit func, check out what mappers are doing, get involved and maybe try some mapping.

mmm maybe are bsp2, a "special" q1bsp with extended limits, and many func_detail you can compiled with TyrUtils utils compiler

None of the maps in the jam2 pack are BSP2 format, hardly any custom maps use the format. Jam2 is just extended map limits and nothing else.

eyup, thats what they mean with 'faithful' engines that are mostly made to just be updates of the original engines but without fancy bells & whistles, and with the intention to stay as close to original dosquake's look and feel as possible

I don't want to pick on anyone here or even start a purist vs dp player argument but none of the maps in Jam2 are dosquake compatible. Most break original map limits, have custom textures, custom fog, coloured light files and custom skyboxes.

The reason these maps are labelled as faithful is to with gameplay, DP maybe an awesome engine with lots of graphic potential but it does have a lot of "custom" gameplay changes which are not liked by many mappers. The jam2 maps are designed (yes they are designed and tested) for original vanilla quake gameplay, it has nothing to do with bells, whistles or HD eye candy changes.

Also for anyone wondering what the theme is about, check out the blue texture theme maps by Iikka "Fingers" Ker�nen - https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/ikspq3.html. They are classic maps that all quake player should play once.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

fixed!

[MadGypsy]

I will be learning Unity at some point

Unity is kind of shitty. I know it's "awesome" or whatever but, it's not. If you are dead set on Unity you should get a Play Station developers license (free for individuals) and the PSM SDK with Unity. Negating Unity, you should check out Ogre or Irrlicht.

None of the maps in the jam2 pack are BSP2 format, hardly any custom maps use the format. Jam2 is just extended map limits and nothing else.

Isn't that all BSP2 is... extended map limits?

[Spike]

regarding bsp2... many engines treat lots of variables as unsigned 16bit types instead of signed ones (effectively 15bit), or by simply assuming that the values are in ascending order and guessing the high parts, or whatever.
its a neat trick that a) avoids undefined engine behaviour. b) avoids using bsp2 where all the extra data is 0 anyway. c) works in more engines.

[Adam]

Unity is kind of shitty. I know it's "awesome" or whatever but, it's not. If you are dead set on Unity you should get a Play Station developers license (free for individuals) and the PSM SDK with Unity. Negating Unity, you should check out Ogre or Irrlicht.

Thanks for the advice and links,
Unity is a part of the gamedev course that I am working through so I don't get much wiggle room on that. I will check the others out though.
There was a sort of RTS robot game that you played inside a halo shaped world, it used Ogre3D and looked really nice.

[Adam]

So I just did a search on BSP2.

The first thing I found out was that (basically) it's better for rendering scenes with high amounts of geometry but slower (then BSP) at handling simpler, smaller scenes.

I also found this.

Honestly, that Wikipedia page could be in an alien language.
Anybody up for translating it?

[Dutch]

regarding bsp2... many engines treat lots of variables as unsigned 16bit types instead of signed ones (effectively 15bit), or by simply assuming that the values are in ascending order and guessing the high parts, or whatever.
its a neat trick that a) avoids undefined engine behaviour. b) avoids using bsp2 where all the extra data is 0 anyway. c) works in more engines.

When you say unsigned 16bit variables, what variables are being read? Trying to understand this a bit better.

[MadGypsy]

Thanks for the advice and links,

It takes PS like a friggin week to authorize your license. If you go that route, don't be surprised if 5 or 6 days pass and you still don't have a dev license. I think I waited 9 days for mine (maybe it was even 11, honestly I forget but it was definitely over a week).

Unity for PSMobile is a hair different than stock unity. It's optimized for PS systems so, it's probably missing a couple of things as well as potentially added some.

My problem with PSM SDK is it isn't documented very well. It's pretty much straight c+ and there are a lot of samples/examples but I didn't feel like the examples were very helpful. Partially this is due to examples sharing key files but it's not real clear which ones.

[Johnny Law]

Isn't that all BSP2 is... extended map limits?

The "extended limits" in most modern engines mainly have to do with the number of non-structural things you can put in a map (models, sounds, monsters, etc.).

The extended limits in the bsp2 format mainly have to do with expanding the valid physical boundaries of the map, and allowing more (and/or more complex) structures in it.

At least that's my understanding!

[Dutch]

I think that has a lot to do with the engine itself as well, I once made a standard bsp map beyond the 4096x4096 limit that darkplaces had no problems with, but QuakeSpasm had the hall of mirrors too far from the maps origin. I'm going to do some reading on it tomorrow, it's got me curious now.

[Adam]

It takes PS like a friggin week to authorize your license. If you go that route, don't be surprised if 5 or 6 days pass and you still don't have a dev license. I think I waited 9 days for mine (maybe it was even 11, honestly I forget but it was definitely over a week).

Unity for PSMobile is a hair different than stock unity. It's optimized for PS systems so, it's probably missing a couple of things as well as potentially added some.

My problem with PSM SDK is it isn't documented very well. It's pretty much straight c+ and there are a lot of samples/examples but I didn't feel like the examples were very helpful. Partially this is due to examples sharing key files but it's not real clear which ones.

If I use the standard free (or educational) version of Unity will I be able to then load up the files in the PS version without much drama? I know you said it was a hair different but what does that include?
I don't know much about this, but I would have thought that standard Unity was an open platform but maybe the PS version locks you in?

The coding side of things worries me. I haven't done any since learning how to make Dos batch files. I really prefer visual interfaces like how you tie things together in Worldcraft, Gamemaker or even in Blender. The general consensus seems to be though "Don't mess about making games in Blender, use Unity".

I've got a while, so I can dip my toes into a few.