Latest FvF?

[Baker]

Since we're speaking about this, I would have to agree that it is silly for an open sourced game to have closed source mods. Some could argue that it's for security reasons. The CAx source code isn't being released because rook doesn't want anyone to find exploits in the security code in it. If the security of a mod rests solely in a hard coded source, it will only be so long until someone jacks the progs.dat and decompiles it into source code. Then what? Is the security gone?

But that's still a reason to close source a QUAKE mod. It helps keep serious play in the community. Now let's discuss FVF.

If someone's contributions are open source, they have a much higher value to the community.

Someone whose contributions are not open source, to me these contributions are lower value because they are not available to others so the idea would have to be re-coded.

For instance, I know why CAx is closed source. The reason is the fear that someone would run a tournament with a progs.dat with cheats in it that allowed someone to scam someone else. This is sort of a different case because the intent of having CAx as closed source isn't to impair development, Rook shares code/ideas with others and additionally Bam also works on the source.

Hopefully someday someone codes secure server code that checks the digital signature of a mod or some other type of development occurs to solve this type of issue. I think Quakeworld has this capability currently.

The concern I always have about Open Source is that if there are very few modern mods with the source code available, the odds of someone new bothering to learn QuakeC are quite minimal as a result if they can't do anything with it.

[Baker]

The original registered FvF decompiles quite nicely

Just out of curiosity (a 5 minute whim), I used deacc32.exe and was able to decompile the Registered FvF progs.dat and the code does not nearly look like half the mess I expected (it's actually not bad at all, which surprises me). An example:



I am pretty sure that using something like WinMerge against the original progs 106, it could be reassembled into something very cohesive that would compile.

What made me think of this is that I just noticed that ORL said something about the FvF progs.dat.

All progs.dat prior to about 1999/2000 were made by the original QCC compiler because no other compilers existed. These progs ALL decompile VERY well.

An ironic note: Long ago I had read Gunter's story about working on the FvF source by hacking it with a hex editor and how he was fortunate enough thru a series of events to have come in contact with someone (the author) who could provide him the source.

In retrospect, although that was the easiest way for him to continue working on the mod, looking backwards ... it wasn't the only way.

Part of me finds the fact I discovered this now very funny. The reason is that I really do not have any particularly special abilities and yet I always seem to run across these things that people with vastly greater capabilities never find. Heheh.

[foq]

Baker just pwnd Gunter.

[Baker]

Information is just information; it isn't good or bad, it's just knowledge. I'm a free knowledge kind of guy. More knowledge is always better.

/Probably no one who has any interest in FvF has an ounce of QuakeC experience except Gunter (and RocketGuy). I think what you will discover is that FvF being closed source or open source makes very little difference because the value anyone ever brings to a party is what they can ADD to it. In the case of FvF, that is still going to be Gunter. So what is different? This is why I think closed-sourcery is silly, to be quite honest. There are plenty of open source mods, maps and engines and I don't think any of them ever regretted it.

[ORL]

and FvF is played by all of 5 people once every few weeks.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

[Canadian*Sniper]

The Turk is a bot so it doesn't count

[RothGelen]

I don't have any screenshots, but I've been there with 4 other people in the past.

[Baker]

My point wasn't so much about the precise number of players, but rather the true absence of any good reasons to keep mods closed source.

There are so many dead mods that died a closed-source death (CRMOD, CRCTF, countless others) and so few live ones.

Open source extends the lifetime of things, there is NO multiplayer mod that exists today that was not based off another the source code of another mod.

You only have to look at the limitations of something like CRMOD to see that all closed source mods are a dead end.

CRMOD limps around in it's current obsolete form the same way that ProQuake cheat-free limps around in it's current obsolete form.

[joao93]

and FvF is played by all of 5 people once every few weeks.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." (2)

[Canadian*Sniper]

/me claps at joao, obviously not impressed.