Half-Life BSP In q1

[avirox]

One thing that might be nice to add to some of the opensourced quake 1 bsp editors out there would be the origin brush entity that Quake 2, Half-Life, and a number of other games use for rotating doors and entities. Basically the origin brush is a null brush that simply acts as the "hinge" for rotating objects. It's not an actual entity, but rather I believe its some sort of trick added by map creators. More info here:
http://www.superjer.com/learn/func_door_rotating.php

[golden_boy]

You can place an origin brush in any old editor. It's just a brush with the origin texture - same as clip brushes, hint brushes etc.

The map compiler (I guess) can identify such brushes (by the texture name) and do something with the origin of the rotating brush. Quake2 uses this method - Quake 1 map compilers don't support it. Thus I suggest using a point entity (info_notnull) to mark the hinge/axis, because all Quake map compilers understand these and it could be done in QC, instead of hacking map compilers and engines.

Baker: 20.000 of course. Hence why I don't make black-and-white maps :-P

You're probably right, I just said that there are no absolutes when it comes to mapping, since it's an artistic process as well as a technical one. I was nitpicking more than anything.

[avirox]

using a point entity won't work, because a rotating brush entity rotates around its' "origin" and the value of its origin is '0 0 0' be default. Setting the origin to anything else will move the physical brush. Somehow q2/hl/etc map compilers can set the .origin without moving the actual brush.

[Baker]

Also I've updated my MapConverter and MapScaler, download here.

Scrama, would you have any interest in opening up the part of the source where the .map 220 converts the texture alignment to .map format (or even better the reverse).

The reason I ask, this information might help these guys and their open source Quake editor. They are having trouble with rotating brush/texture stuff.

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60225

However, it is possible that Ben Jardrup/aguirRe's map compiler does have this formula in it. But I haven't had time to look.

You're probably right, I just said that there are no absolutes when it comes to mapping, since it's an artistic process as well as a technical one. I was nitpicking more than anything.

I might have had a little too much zeal in my post, yet I believe the future isn't going to be "Quake" per se.

Quake is a set of rules, the behavior of the monsters, the way the weapons work. Not the "assets".

I mean, you liked playing distrans Doom3ish map probably. Yet it used few or no Quake textures. That didn't stop you from enjoying it.

Floating drones in OUM aren't Quake, much of Nehahra isn't "Quake" per se. I recently really played Forwards Compatible and it used the Rubicon texture set and had enforcer skins on the grunts.

I know what you are saying about the palette. And it is very true that it helps keep consistency. But using another map format wouldn't disallow such a thing, it would just give the creator choice.

[Baker]

One thing that might be nice to add to some of the opensourced quake 1 bsp editors out there would be the origin brush entity that Quake 2, Half-Life, and a number of other games use for rotating doors and entities. Basically the origin brush is a null brush that simply acts as the "hinge" for rotating objects. It's not an actual entity, but rather I believe its some sort of trick added by map creators. More info here:
http://www.superjer.com/learn/func_door_rotating.php

Avirox, what's the deal with the glass in the Half-Life maps? I've added Half-Life map support to engine (ripped from FuhQuake) and I already have alpha transparency support and the "glass" renders solid (non-transparent). Are they using some field other than "alpha" to mark glass?

/is hoping the answer is simple

[avirox]

Glass and things like that are usually func_wall or func_breakable entities that have their .alpha value set to something below 1. Some examples of this are the windows and casings in c1a1, the water in c2a1a, the rotating lights in the beginning of c1a0c, etc. You should note that Half-Life maps do not have entities that use .alpha - quakelife uses a wrapper (HalfLife_DoRender) to set the .alpha based on how half-life works. Simply, though:

self.alpha = self.renderamt/255;

look in halflife.qc for the rest of it though.

[Scrama]

Somehow q2/hl/etc map compilers can set the .origin without moving the actual brush.

Compiler moves brush to the '0 0 0' and then moves back to the designed place.

Scrama, would you have any interest in opening up the part of the source where the .map 220 converts the texture alignment to .map format (or even better the reverse).

Today MC can save alignment, in some cases texture shifts by 1-2%. I hope I can fix it in close feature and open sources.

[=peg=]

However, it is possible that Ben Jardrup/aguirRe's map compiler does have this formula in it. But I haven't had time to look.

BJ's qbsp can build .map in valve 220 format yes.
I use valve 220 for it allows coordinates to be on grid while still being able to use QuRrK's Enhanced Texture Positioning features.. (QuArK ETP format makes for perfect texture alignment but brush coordinates go off-grid in the .map which gives the compile tools a hard time and results in clipping/vis errors most of the time)

Today MC can save alignment, in some cases texture shifts by 1-2%. I hope I can fix it in close feature and open sources.

When i compile quake maps from scratch in valve 220 format, textures also shift ever so slightly.. i think it has to do with the floating point precision of the compile tools..

[MH]

I wish I could get my hands on the Quake colored light utility made by MH years ago, it was the tool used to make .lit files that are commonly used for colored lights in Quake. I'd use it to set the colored light data for the lighting entities and this time they'd be built into the map

Here you go.

http://www.zshare.net/download/520147513e7e88cc/

Two sources in the zip, not sure which is the best to use, but have fun!

Oh, by the way; I'd advise being a bit careful with how far you go with this project. Back in 99/2000/2001 or so, some folks tried to backport CounterStrike to Q1 and open-source it, but ended up being C&D'ed by Valve. Probably not too big a deal these days as it's so old, but it does remain their IP and depending on how agressive their lawyers might be feeling, it could all end in tears...

[Baker]

Oh, by the way; I'd advise being a bit careful with how far you go with this project. Back in 99/2000/2001 or so, some folks tried to backport CounterStrike to Q1 and open-source it, but ended up being C&D'ed by Valve. Probably not too big a deal these days as it's so old, but it does remain their IP and depending on how agressive their lawyers might be feeling, it could all end in tears...

I won't be using any of their IP. I'm looking for ideas to extend the Quake 1 BSP format with a new version # and illustrating that the Quake 1 map format is a perfectly good one and just needs some modernization, so I'm using Half-Life as the example of a game that takes advantage of the format better.

[blw435]

This is a very interesting topic, how would people feel about the idea of turning this on it's head, and porting Quake over into the Source engine?

[gnounc]

You could start with DeathMatch classic.
I'd be interested to see it...but theres not much I'm not interested in seeing...I like...stuff. Nstuff.

[blw435]

DMC would indeed be a good place to start, although I'm not sure if it comes just in GoldSRC or Source as well....though there cannot be much difference?!

I have coded with Quake 1 many years ago, but don't really have the first clue where to start with Source.

I would say the first major hurdle would be to get the Quake textures and levels into the latest format (Baker, or anyone else, have you already done this?!) and maybe look at 'refreshing' some of them at the same time, to look, er, less blocky.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Quake and always will, it just sadly doesn't have the following it once used to. I think if the entire Quake level collection, Monsters, Weapons etc etc were carried over to the Source engine there wouldn't be a question as to if it were going to be popular or not.

[MH]

One could almost say that Quake is actually already running in an early version of the Source engine.

Sadly a game engine and all it provides is not what makes a game great or popular or anything else like that. It's just an engine, it's just a tool on which content is built, and content is what matters.

[Baker]

(Baker, or anyone else, have you already done this?!)

Well, there are the Quake Retexturing Project textures, Rygel's texture pack for DarkPlaces and of course Quake Reforged's horde of stuff.

[Note: my interest in closed-source game and totally restrictive engines like the Source engine is near zero. Closed source is why a lot of my favorite games don't run on Vista or Windows 7 or have to be emulated in DOSBox. I'm known to be openly hostile towards closed source .... just so ya know.

I get angry when a closed-source game that worked on XP doesn't work on Vista, etc. etc. And closed source means it won't be fixed EVER, because it can't be. ALL closed source will break some day, somewhere -- and then you can dig a grave and bury it.

Like how upgrading from DirectX 7.0 to DirectX 8.0 killed some of my games. And inexplicably some DirectX 8.0 games at best can run on Vista with no sound ... grrrr. I better shut up now. Yes I hate closed source games with a passion when that stuff happens ... Ending rant ...]