Requesting source code for the security module

[Baker]

I suggested this a couple times already...

Cheaters are ultimately not a technical problem, but a social one.

Hence, a technical solution seems shallow.

When anti-wallhack was added, it did three things:

1. Wall-hack accusations went bye bye. There was a certain whiner player who was actually rather disappointed because then he could call good players a wallhacker anymore.

2. A few previously loudmouthed cheaters suddenly were reduced to average.

3. Confidence in the game returned. Bots may always exist, but wallhacking is a super unfair cheat.

So anti-wallhack did solve some social problems. If you are waiting to ambush someone, it's nice to know the other player can't see you.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

I suggested this a couple times already...

Cheaters are ultimately not a technical problem, but a social one.

Hence, a technical solution seems shallow.

Why not use something like a key system - a social network. A server's admin(s) would give out keys (like pgp or ssh keys) to players. If a player clearly and repeatedly misbehaves, his key is invalidated by the admin. This would at least be better than IP-range type blocking.

So a cheater would be excluded from the group (social control), and bypassing a pgp/ssh-like key system would surely be pretty hard.

Of course this means that only certain, trusted group members would be able to connect. But for Quake, this wouldn't really be a problem because the community is small.

Like Neil said, his last project was a DLL and the projects before ,and maybe even after that,have been seeing if he cant break the confidence of the Q1 community by making more cheats,and then people whom I thought had some common sense ,DEFENDS Neil ,claiming "his hacks arent being handed out" , but I can account for two players for a fact who was given hacks that was distributed after the anti-wallhack,created by Neil.

It's the same ol' nonsense it has been in prior years, if your in the 'in crowd' ,its all too easy to obtain that extra advantage ,courtesy Neil. I mean seriously, dont you guys ever wonder why "new hacks" show up in Quake1?

Someone should take Neil's man card.


but,seriously Neil..... get a new fucking hobby you fat bastard

[Baker]

Like Neil said, his last project was a DLL and the projects before ,and maybe even after that,have been seeing if he cant break the confidence of the Q1 community by making more cheats,and then people whom I thought had some common sense ,DEFENDS Neil ,claiming "his hacks arent being handed out" , but I can account for two players for a fact who was given hacks that was distributed after the anti-wallhack,created by Neil.

It's the same ol' nonsense it has been in prior years, if your in the 'in crowd' ,its all too easy to obtain that extra advantage ,courtesy Neil. I mean seriously, dont you guys ever wonder why "new hacks" show up in Quake1?

Someone should take Neil's man card.


but,seriously Neil..... get a new fucking hobby you fat bastard

I'd rather have someone like Neil finding the flaws now than having to wait for them to be found out later.

No doubt he likely made a radar or something and if really creative made something that shows a player model where a player sound was emitted from.

Current cheats possible with anti-wallhack on, as far as I know ...

1. Botting
2. Radar showing players presently in view even if behind you, provided they would be visible if you are looking in another direction. You could even make a rear view mirror if you wanted to.
3. If sv_cullentities 2 isn't being used, seeing projectiles behind walls.
4. Drawing a player model where a player sound was emitted from.

Except for botting, those are mild advantages. Radar being slightly useful for making it a little less likely to being attacked from behind. The other 2 are a slight advantage over headphones.

Not really a problem of the same magnitude of wallhacking where you were never safe and playing with far less information than a cheater, who could always know where you were.

[MH]

I see no issues with someone doing hacks and letting us know about them. It would be worse if he didn't - after all, it becomes a known vulnerability that we can work on closing (and it's not the vulnerabilities you know that you need to worry most about), so it's a kind of a service to the community in a slightly perverse way.

[Baker]

I see no issues with someone doing hacks and letting us know about them. It would be worse if he didn't - after all, it becomes a known vulnerability that we can work on closing (and it's not the vulnerabilities you know that you need to worry most about), so it's a kind of a service to the community in a slightly perverse way.

It used to be that FOV in Quake was viewed as a cheat because many players didn't know about the fov cvar and it wasn't in the menu.

Needless to say, I added FOV and Mouse look into the ProQuake menu, and the ability to truly maximize player speed (The "Always Run" Maximum setting sets cl_backspeed and cl_sidespeed to 400, for example).

This reduces any unfairness due to lack of reading the manual. It's all in the ProQuake menu including the ability to turn bobbing off and reduce the "quad/pent/ring/envirosuit" hues.

At least we know what the possible cheats are now. Some of them can't be stopped, like cheats #2, #3, #4.

Botting can stopped very temporarily. Like I mentioned before, I could make a really screwy client/server build for a tournament and in the 2 hours it would take to figure out how the aim is communicated and where it is in memory, it would be 1 1/2 hours too late to use it. The tournament game would be over by then.

[dfsp_spirit]

Hm, does that mean we get a new Quake every day?

+1

[Mindf!3ldzX]

While I find both of your 'glass half full' approach to Neil and his contributions admirable,and these things are definately worth noting. Anyone who helps keep Q1 pure also ensures that Quake1 has a brighter future, but in this case its still pretty damned close to "The enemy of my enemy" tactics, which is all great until its no longer beneficial..

Here's the math ;

Neil makes new cheats
+
Neil Corroborate's w/ others 2FIX found cheats
=
Actively seeks to create cheats that circumvent,or bypass current anti-cheat measures.

While I understand thats nothing out of the ordinairy,and as long as that math problem continue's to unfold in that pattern,always repeating itself,then you're good as gold for future anti-cheat measures,due to old ones are getting fixed,new ones are getting found,and fixed as well. This is typically good stuff, but thats just not the case. The glass is truthfully half empty

[Neil]

TBH the last thing that got leaked was the qrack client, which really didnt anything except a broken aimbot(super spin) , fakeping and the ability to toggle straight shaft. It did have radar but that was broken also. And it was only leaked to tical, also it is easily catch-able with a q_version as i did not spoof this.

As for my most recent projects I dont release them to anyone, I may from time to time come on here and say what I'm doing but the cheats themselves are mostly for finding out how to break anti cheat measures, then update them. None of which have been released or else you would see a mass rape of newbies like before. Not to mention that the last time i compiled anything quake related was 6+ months ago as for some reason I lost my drive once I fully broke qsecurity. Either way these days I'm more of an anti cheat then a cheater, but the only way to break anti cheats is to think like a cheater or to be one.

[Baker]

While I find both of your 'glass half full' approach to Neil

.
.
.

This is typically good stuff, but thats just not the case. The glass is truthfully half empty

Half-full? Half-empty? Doesn't really matter how you think about it, the way things are is the way things are.

Life isn't about getting what you want, it's about wanting what you get.

Do you know how fortunate we are to have anti-wallhack or that Quake is open source? There are games with cheaters and because they are closed source, there is no defense or hope of ever remedying the situation.

Case in point: Inside3d Forums :: View topic - Discussion on MOHAA ; that guy was envious of Quake's anti-wallhack and the legitimacy of his game (Medal of Honor Allied Assault) was hopelessly compromised by cheats and turned into an unfair joke (with a closed source game).

And one special thing about the Quake community: since the source is open, we have developers. For a 13 year old game

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Here's the thing,just as you said, newer games are rampant with more flavors of hacks then Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream,but in Quake1....


How many programmers do you think are actually creating cheats specifically aimed at Quake1?

[Neil]

None, but as 90% of games are based off of quakes engine, you can easily port cheats to work.

EDIT: This is what happened when newbies found out about opengl32.dll everyone just downloaded one for counter-strike and used it in quake

[loaded1mbimage]

rOOk Go Rook nice, cool, strong, sexy

r0ok you fuck off instead please, if you dont care dont write anything man dont even read it! People are dropping dead in this world (like it isnt normal or something would be wierded if noone dropped dead every day).

And while people drop dead u join a damn 1996video game forum and tell people to fuck off. Are you an idiot for real? Bitch. Ass. Monkey. Very mature, what if you extended your vocabulary some it might help you progress in life.

Whats wrong with you anyway im sure Baker can talk for him self, why gang up on one guy who just ask questions, calling him names. Youre lowest then the lowest fuck and should crawl on the floor and lick my boots. Do you understand?

Can I just say cortex fuck off and maybe you will realize no one cares......


People are dropping dead in this world] and your bitching about how high your ass ranks on a damn 1996 video game. yippy skippy you win, love shines on your assshole, move that monkey aside...

[spooker]

bro, that post of rook's is over 6 months old. come on man, move on...

[gnounc]

indeed. everytime I see this thread in the "recently posted in's" i die a little inside.

[loaded1mbimage]

...

Move on? I dont hang in the forum very often and I didnt check the date so it was fresh news to me. Beside how can you move on from something you never started? I just started it, and now ill move on! Thanks for the tip it helps alot any more good suggestions while youre at it? e-mail them to
detseretni-ton-m`[email protected] Zzzz ....

bro, that post of rook's is over 6 months old. come on man, move on...