NewDM Revival

[bta.monster]

The problem is fixed for now, I removed some of the maps from the vote.qc Namely the ones I just added. Which means those maps cannot be voted for as of now.

I guess the voting code can't handle over a certain number of maps...?
Baker or anyone care to help me on this ?

I noticed it says this in the vote-map thread:

Features

This code only uses a single impulse for voting.
Vote for a map by typing the name of the map in the console.
In theory, should support about 200 maps total.

"In theory" hmm... Maybe I should change something ... wait times so the binds don't get all sent to the player at once ?

[Baker]

The problem is fixed for now, I removed some of the maps from the vote.qc Namely the ones I just added. Which means those maps cannot be voted for as of now.

I guess the voting code can't handle over a certain number of maps...?
Baker or anyone care to help me on this ?

I noticed it says this in the vote-map thread:

Features

This code only uses a single impulse for voting.
Vote for a map by typing the name of the map in the console.
In theory, should support about 200 maps total.

"In theory" hmm... Maybe I should change something ... wait times so the binds don't get all sent to the player at once ?

Eh, well unfortunately I am insufficiently experienced with QuakeC barriers to assist. The code supports in excess of 200 maps and I know from the Universal Server project that it can for sure easily do 90+.

However, there could be some other little barrier or fly in the ointment that prevents the true coding maximum from being realized. I think the EuroQuake server at some point or even now had 135 maps QuakeC votable although using the slightly different RuneQuake method (which inspired the Bam method).

One thing I will say is that although having 200 custom maps is great variety, people do like diversity but they also like familiarity. If a slightly thinner map selection version was working, maybe go for that instead of bang head against poorly understood and possibly hard to surmount barrier.

Either way, unless R00k or Bam answers this I'm thinking Inside3D is likely the best solution.

And you know I was going to say this, but if you made the mod open source someone could just download and compile and maybe the right QuakeC guru might do it and solve your problem automagically. Open source = good for peer review and debugging.

[bta.monster]

Yes, I've been thinking of simply cutting down on the mappack and making it a bit more streamlined, there are a few I have in mind that are candidates for removal I've tried messing with a few things myself (very frustrating), the only thing that worked was to cut down on some of the maps... So more than likely that's what I'll end up doing.

I always hang out in #qc on irc.anynet.org, and ask around for help in there. Some very knowledgeable and helpful people. Most of them aren't really the type to just straight up give you code, or compile it for you. They want you to figure things out for yourself, so instead they give you hints to move you along on the right direction. Which is much better for learning

I've been planning on making the mod open source. However I haven't done much with version numbering. So I don't know what to call this current version. Maybe NewDM 0.09 ? I'd have to have a good place to put up the mod for download as well, I'm thinking Quaketastic. I may only 'release' the mod when I deem it to be completed too.

[R00k]

for the client connecting use -zone 1024 should help if the server is stuffing alot of commands to the client. This should help the SZ_GetSpace error

[bta.monster]

Here is the final version of the mappack. The file size is just under 50MB.

There are 101 custom maps in total running on newdm.servegame.org.
Anyone who downloaded the newdm_maps.7z need not worry, there are no new maps in this pack. Only removed a few to even it out.

Baker, care to host it on quakeone.com ?

[Baker]

Next time I get a chance I will upload it.

[Baker]

http://www.quake-1.com/files/maps/newdm_maps.zip

[bta.monster]

Thanks Baker.
-I like the news post

Currently working on Frikbot waypoints at the moment...!

[Baker]

Thanks Baker.
-I like the news post

Currently working on Frikbot waypoints at the moment...!

Canadian*Sniper did a great job with this mod and what I liked about his approach was having a theme or an opinion on how the game play should be.

But NewDM ended up being a failure after initial success largely due to lack of vote-map capability. You could get stuck on highly inappropriate maps for the number of players and no one likes being bored.

This was one of the reasons I urged Bam to make his now-famous vote-map tutorial.

I'm interested to see how your project progresses because being a true NetQuaker you already know all the things that pure modders and single player mappers have trouble seeing on building a player-oriented mod for a dedicated server.

I have 2 suggestions that you can use or not use (I'm not always right, I'm rather close to always right not because I am special or anything but just because I have a long memory watching mods and servers live and die) ...

1. Avalanche is difficult to get ahold of in my experience. But I would ask him for 2 ports (he has 'em I'm sure). On port 26000, I would run NewDM with NO custom maps whatsoever nor having them voteable and a STABLE build (and no Frikbots). On port 26001, you play and experiment and have custom maps available.

FTEQCC has #IFDEF capability and I assume you are using this QuakeC compiler. With #ifdef you can have the same code-base support slightly different builds like one with custom maps and one without custom maps.

When you are developing something, you want an audience. If you want an audience, you want it as large and as casual and as easy to participate as possible. This means no downloads, just asking a player to connect.

You can have the mainstream version running on 26000 and the experimental and ambitious version running on 26001.

Like I said, I may be right or a I may be wrong and I don't know what stage your project is in as far as to the extent that you may have a lot of things on your list that you want to learn, implement, play around with that would make the above overhead too much of a burden for freehand experimentation.

[bta.monster]

Yes, I'm eternally grateful to Bam for making that vote-map code.

I'd have no clue how to do it myself, and I'd only end up frustrating the guys at #qc if they were to teach me.

If I were to ask Avalanche for two ports... I have a feeling no one would ever play at 26001 (where the majority of my efforts (and the really interesting stuff) would be).

My main reason for reviving NewDM was to add some interesting custom maps for people to play on, as well as some bot support (and having a non-bullshitty FFA experience). Custom maps are a pain in the ass for some people to download and install.

Recently I've noticed an issue with the Darkplaces server disconnecting people that don't have the map. There's really no fixing that, as I'm using an old version of DP that's far more stable for a server than the latest... Which has many problems with frikbots acting odd, the lightning gun fires strange when running a dedicated server, PQ users get IPs spammed in console... I doubt Lordhavoc would want to take the time to debug all of that. I've messed around with various sv_* commands with no success. Hard to tell what the issues are with the latest Darkplaces build.

Nope, right now I'm using good 'ole Frikqcc.

I suppose I could do that... that is if players really don't want to bother to download custom maps. Which is saddening for me. There are no other problems with the vote-map code that I've seen, except when adding too many maps to it, and it overflowing the player. If I was to run NewDM with no custom maps and frikbots, I'd at least include the voting code, since not having voteable maps was the problem with NewDM to begin with, as you said.

The Frikbots ARE a little screwy with dedicated servers I've noticed. They can do certain things on listen servers that they can't on dedicated servers. Also sometimes the waypoint loading gets screwed up, and ends up changing the default 'saved1 1' value to some crazy number, which ends up making a whole shit-ton of bots connect on the next mapchange.

I've spoken to FrikaC and he said he's never really done anything with dedicated server support for the frikbots. Which is highly understandable, bots are meant for playing by yourself, anyhow.

I'll definitely take those suggestions into consideration. It saddens me that players wouldn't take the two minutes or however long it takes to download 50mb nowadays, and simply extract some good maps. I suppose what has to be done, has to be done.

[Baker]

Yes, I'm eternally grateful to Bam for making that vote-map code.

I'd have no clue how to do it myself, and I'd only end up frustrating the guys at #qc if they were to teach me.

If I were to ask Avalanche for two ports... I have a feeling no one would ever play at 26001 (where the majority of my efforts (and the really interesting stuff) would be).

Well you have to know what your goal is and since it is sounds like your goal is to have something different, I quite understand.

I mean even though I didn't write CAx the idea of custom maps on CA+ was pushed real hard by me, and then of course Phenom and I tried the ALL custom maps Dredd server idea and RocketGuy and I did RQuake which was essentially all custom maps too.

and having a non-bullshitty FFA experience

Yes I am all for that for sure.

Recently I've noticed an issue with the Darkplaces server disconnecting people that don't have the map. There's really no fixing that, as I'm using an old version of DP that's far more stable for a server than the latest...

DarkPlaces even WITH the maps loves to disconnect any non-DarkPlaces client every once in a while ... I've had it do it to me numerous times with coop and it happened occasionally on Sniper's server.

Which has many problems with frikbots acting odd, the lightning gun fires strange when running a dedicated server, PQ users get IPs spammed in console... I doubt Lordhavoc would want to take the time to debug all of that. I've messed around with various sv_* commands with no success. Hard to tell what the issues are with the latest Darkplaces build.

The only true benefit to running DarkPlaces server with the NetQuake protocol would seem to me to have the server show up in DarkPlaces server list (sv_heartbeat 1 / master server capability). Unless you are using DarkPlaces modding features, but those are mighty slim for the NetQuake protocol. Plus that DarkPlaces clients can auto-download the map when using DarkPlaces server.

that is if players really don't want to bother to download custom maps.

Go for what you WANT to do. If you WANT to do custom maps, then do that.

Modding is to fulfill the goals of the developer.

The Frikbots ARE a little screwy with dedicated servers I've noticed. They can do certain things on listen servers that they can't on dedicated servers. Also sometimes the waypoint loading gets screwed up, and ends up changing the default 'saved1 1' value to some crazy number, which ends up making a whole shit-ton of bots connect on the next mapchange.

I've spoken to FrikaC and he said he's never really done anything with dedicated server support for the frikbots. Which is highly understandable, bots are meant for playing by yourself, anyhow.

Chuck had RuneQuake Advanced (IEEE's modified RQ that ran on Widomaker) run on the NYGMA server with Frikbots. It was an Essentrix dedicated server.

It saddens me that players wouldn't take the two minutes or however long it takes to download 50mb nowadays, and simply extract some good maps. I suppose what has to be done, has to be done.

Remember, when Phenom and I did the Dredd server in 2007 we actively pimped/raided players from Rage and Shmack and Frenzy was super-pimping too.

I guess what I am saying is that there were 3 active game recruiters plus we did things like promo videos ... and



... since Phenom and I were both in the SNS clan, we had several SNS players that were defacto automatics to come play with us (built-in player base).

And the Quake scene at the time was much more custom map friendly since CAx increased the popularity of maps sanity, q1edge and q3dm6qw and people were more likely to download custom maps.

[bta.monster]

The only true benefit to running DarkPlaces server with the NetQuake protocol would seem to me to have the server show up in DarkPlaces server list (sv_heartbeat 1 / master server capability). Unless you are using DarkPlaces modding features, but those are mighty slim for the NetQuake protocol. Plus that DarkPlaces clients can auto-download the map when using DarkPlaces server.

Yes... That actually is one of the main reasons I use a darkplaces server, is for the server list capability. A few new players who've been posting around in the forums lately have stumbled across my server from that list. I figured it might help bring in some new players to the scene.

I did have issues with running wqpro400 as a server. Peg and I were on muny05, a very small map, dueling with SSGs, and right when we were both about to fire, the server crashed with an overflow error. I really don't know what would cause that, other than the server not being able to handle alot of particles going on at once. I did have -heapsize and -zone set in the command line.

The original Proquake 3.50 may run better however. I remember Quess would crash with pq400, but with PQ 3.50 it ran fine. I'll try a Proquake 3.50 server and see how it works out. After all, that is what Runequake runs. Tons of crazy stuff happens in Runequake, so if PQ 3.50 can handle Runequake, it sure as hell should be able to handle NewDM.

DarkPlaces even WITH the maps loves to disconnect any non-DarkPlaces client every once in a while ... I've had it do it to me numerous times with coop and it happened occasionally on Sniper's server.

I was afraid that this was happening too. Kimp and a few others got disconnected upon mapchange, even though they supposedly had all the maps. They got a different error this time, Host_Error: received a message. Something like that...

I think it might have something to do with the server changing maps way too quickly for the client. so the client can't keep up and those keepalive messages don't really work as intended. The maps change almost instantly with the Darkplaces server..

Chuck had RuneQuake Advanced (IEEE's modified RQ that ran on Widomaker) run on the NYGMA server with Frikbots. It was an Essentrix dedicated server.

I do remember Chuck's Frikbot runequake mod. The Frikbot + dedicated server problems may simply be Darkplaces. I'll load up a ProQuake 3.50 server and see how things go.

I found out what was causing the problem with the other engines, I had host_maxfps set to an absurd amount like 500, which messed with the bots pretty bad. Setting it to 72 (default) seemed to fix the problems.

Remember, when Phenom and I did the Dredd server in 2007 we actively pimped/raided players from Rage and Shmack and Frenzy was super-pimping too.

Heh, I could try and promote my server like that. Sometimes I'll get some Runequakers to connect, but usually they just complain that there's no hook. It even seems like some of them don't even have their movement keys bound, they just rely on hook to move.

Many of the players that did play NewDM no longer play anymore (like > 75%), and those were the players that really played for fun, and not pure competition. NewDM really adds a whole new dimension to things, you have to be really cautious so your enemy doesn't quickly blow you to bits up close with an SSG. This new dimension of play would probably discourage CA'ers from playing, since its different from the norm. The other weapons are actually useful!

[bta.monster]

Bleh, running a dedicated Proquake 3.50 server still crashes with overflow errors. I'll be dueling some bots and notice sounds dropping out, then after a minute or so it'll crash with SZ_GetSpace: overflow without allowoverflow set.

No clue what would cause that. I doubt its the vote commands, those only get sent to the player upon connecting... really baffles and frustrates me

[bta.monster]

The server will be down until I hear from Avalanche and it gets hosted in Dallas. Having some strange problems with my internet at the moment...

[Baker]

Un-newsing this for the time being while the server is down. Will be encompassed in a general news item should the server return, I had wanted to draw some attention to your development effort at the time but I'm trying to "clean up" the home page news at the moment.