Authentic Model Improvement

[NightFright]

Well, what we do now is for ourselves, anyway. They ripped from us, we rip from them. I call that mutual exploitation.

But you are right, ofc. It took us years to gather all this with the help of many different artists, and it took tons of patience and perseverance. On one hand, the chance of getting this into the official game is ofc tempting, but on the other hand, the only ones really profiting would be id/Bethesda, and worse: Many players would probably never know it came from the community and would only praise id for "their" great efforts, which would be very frustrating and unfair, to say the least.

So yeah... maybe better if they do their own thing, even if it means it will end up in a job not fully done. But I know my luck. If I don't want them to use our stuff, they will want to, and if I do, they won't. So... I actually don't know.

Anyway. We keep going, there's some momentum again.

[osjclatchford]

Megalolz! I'd laugh if they had the nerve to send a c&d order over re the AMQ moddb page...
the dates speak for themselves anyway.

looking into this a bit more I feel a bit more level headed about it now.
it seems the purchase is for the engine/game itself and the models and enhancements are considered extras.
thats how its being portrayed anyway.

I know its a new engine, theres a new episode, it comes with the mps and is available on multiple platforms but! you cant tell me that the draw for many of the gamers out there buying it is the new model content alone. sigh, they should have come to the AMQ first

funny though, some stuff Ive seen whilst researching this is people comparing the amq to the new and discussing favourites LOL

bah! it'll all be old news again in a week....


I'd still like to have alook at all the new models in the pack tbh I'd like to see what a good reskin might do for some of the new models hither and yon.
the new ssg is not a bad model at all but the skin is a bit of a mess... i could fix that I'm sure...
also Id like atinker of that gl too. see if I can make it look less mirrored...

more options are always a good thing. I seem to be forgetting that. I'm a little on edge recently and prone to snap responses at present. call it unemployment stress or whatever but better out than in though eh?

so, insanity aside it'll be good to see what/if seven comes up with as far as the md5 conversions go... *rubs hands in glee*

[NightFright]

Well, I can hook you up with all the ripped content from the new pak files, but it would be unconverted md5 shit. It's better if Seven is processing this first. That is, if he is willing to do so (fingers crossed).

Again, we don't need to and shouldn't replace too much since I don't want to turn this into a remaster compilation. We have some weak parts and these assets can fill the gaps, that's it. The Ogre is important since it's the most important enemy of all, so you have to get that one right. (From your screenshots, it seems it's hitting the sweet spot.) The rest I mentioned earlier is rather in the "nice to have" list.

Sad that we won't be able to push the mission pack stuff any further like this. But... if that Chthon has a proper face, we could turn him into a decent Lavaman.

[osjclatchford]

yeah. I think we can still do stuff... I'll see If I can do the mummy skin for the zom. no promises. its a tricky one and ive failed once already today...

In truth I was not really thinking of these models for the project exclusively but I do think the converted md5s are a resource the community could really use.
just to have an 'enhanced' as mdl's pack on its own would be a worthy thing.

ogre, zombie, hellnight, vore? hell even the fish, yeah they're nice but then so are the chillo ones we currently use. part of me thinks just stick to what we got with those. keeps the AMQ infused own identity thats seperate to this new project.
bah I cant decide... I mean, I love the new ogre but I also love the chillo one with my skin on it... I keep both on file and use whatever takes my fancy at the time...

as you say, the ogre is almost a must for the AMQ to have now. only because we've both been obsessing about it for ages now. and rightly so. its great.
the model seven converted doesnt bug/clip when it dies and the new skin has doe covered so thats done and done... and I mean DONE! (where have I heard that before)

the rocket launcher is a worthy replacement and would be a doddle to do the multi variant, but again, how far to go?

I guess its up to you now. Im just making a version thats mine, made up of my favourites and that staying in my autoload pak!

but I stand by what I say about variations on a theme as far as the mdl versions of the md5's. there are a lot of quakespasm/mark5 users out there and, as I say, options are always nice...

if any of it ends up appropriate for here with a tinker or two, then great, that can only be a boon! time will tell on this.

I should consider myself lucky this new stuff exists to debate it he first place!

[NightFright]

Just keep going and I'll see what I can use. Until now, it was most of what you posted, anyway. The GL/RL can still get a refit if they look better and if we get all the necessary reskins for the mission pack together (GL would actually need two).

It's definitely satisfying to finally get that damned Ogre done for good. Our current replacement is still nice, too, but it's like you said. We were too obsessed with it to let it go now that it's finally dangling right in front of our noses.

Today I'll play the new Quake port on the Switch for the first time and see what it feels and looks like. In E1M1, when you jump into water, it feels like you are dipping into blue ink. They definitely need to tweak that underwater tint. I still believe this will do much better on consoles than on PC where we have lots of ports already.

[osjclatchford]

yeah I noticed how bad the underwater tint was. and the view skewing. its well ott...

anyway attached is the new v_multi2 skin:
osjc_v_multi2_v2.zip

looks good, closer to original than our last one. good enough for the pack?

oh and in case you were wondering about the gl, although I can probably make a multi variant, I know for sure it will be impossible to make a prox from the new model as (like on our current gl) the model is the wrong shape. thats why i used an edited version of dewares model for my proxgun. making look like it matches my gl using the skin. but the new gl is far too diferent to do that with here. that would need major remodelling to remove the faceted areas. you know what I mean?
its all moot without the md5 conversions yet anyway. but thats the rl done anyhow...

[NightFright]

Tested Ogre and RL ingame. Blown away! Without taking anything away from our previous versions, these are significant improvements! Seeing that Ogre in action at long last is just sooo satisfying. If only the circumstances of its appearance had not been so weird. Anyway, I think we are now finally looking at the final entries for these models for sure. Nice that the MRL was already including the RL skin, so I just had to rename the mdl and delete the first skin to make it work in ID1 as intended.

Regarding the GL: I think if we can't make it so that you can clearly see the Prox Mine Launcher is derived from the same model, it's not worth changing. Besides, our replacement really isn't bad at all. Consistency is more important here. Maybe a solution can be found that convinces me, but it's not top priority.

If you want to try everything, it's on Github already. I did the usual optimizations (frames renaming, mdl compression, skin removal where not needed, "Gib Blood" flag added for Shambler headgibs) to bring the new entries up to the standards of our project.

(Oh, and if you wonder: I am including NOTICE.txt from Quake Enhanced now to be on the safe side legally, since it says you are allowed to use assets from the remaster as long as you include the license, which I am doing.)

[osjclatchford]

glad youve been able to use my new skins for the mrl , h_shams and ogre. it seems you and I are totally on the same page there.
as it stands today;
the ogre and doe ogre are now replaced.
the rl and mrl are now replaced.
the shambler head blood is now the right colour and as such a replaced skin on that model.

very pleasing as far as Im concerned! good to know I'm still of use other than passionate ranting LOL!

also thats damn good news about the notice.txt from quake enhanced. if it means we can use edited assets in our mod, then thats shit hot! it means we can essentially pillage away to our salvagey hearts desires and not break legal obligations, whilst still improving the project, YAY! Im all up for that. share and share alike says I.
If its free to all Im happy. I want everyone to enjoy our combined work here! this means they can do.

I feel I need those md5 converted to mdl models even more now.
its fun and exciting!
I'm literally itching to get at them and do new stuff! LOL its silly to be so impatient but in truth Ive not been this excited about quake1 since the days that glquake and malice and the like came out! It feels like real good things are happening for us here!
ohh this is going to get even better Im sure...

looking at some vids, I'd like to get a closer look at the new enforcer model against the chillo one. It might have a 'cleaner' skin if Im not mistaken... chillos one is nice but a bit 'grainy'/'jpeggy' here and there... yes nitpicking but fuck it, we can afford to if alternatives exist can we not..?

[osjclatchford]

here are the models I mentioned for the ogre/doe_ogre head, zombie head and h_hellknight heads:
osjc_zomb_hellkngt_ogre_heads.zip

the ogre model is socks, simply rescaled to .8 to look the same size as the capnbubs ogre head.
the zombie one is a reskin of chillos head model and the hellknight head is the sock one with a new skin...

yes, not perfect but ideal placeholders for the time being...

[osjclatchford]

and here is a headgib for the new remastered vore:
OSJC_h_shal.zip
not perfect as it is missing some texture under the neck but it'll do for now...



its the right form, size and texture though so its a damn fine start... good enough for me anyhow...

[NightFright]

Wait... do we actually have new mdl versions of those monsters, too? I only have the Ogre here, but not the Zombie, Vore or Hellknight. Adding headgibs without their corresponding counterparts seems kinda counter-productive, unless you can't spot the difference between current replacement and new headgib. For the Zombie at least it might be a problem.

But well, you seem to be on fire right now, so I don't want to slow down your productive spree here.

Btw, over at Doomworld they claim there actually ARE new bsp models in the remaster, but a) they are not used and b) the changes are so subtle they would be hard to spot, anyway. I mean, wtf gives?

[osjclatchford]

yeah, that second link that seven gave me had those in too... along with the rl view model.
he must have just picked out those things I mentioned in my post and did those.
hopefully he'll do the rest as the enforcer, weapons and chthon might be worth a look if nothing else. and, of course there might be actual headgibs in there too, but I doubt that. seems its just the monsters and weapons afaik. hence all this work...

https://www.mediafire.com/file/7wvvw...or+NF.zip/file
this file contains the new shalrath, hellknight and zombie.
inside are also heads done the same way as the shalrath head for the zombie and hellknight to ensure 100% visual continuity.
I doubt you'll use those in the pack as, 1 they have no bottoms and 2 theres no blood on the skins but I can do that if you do like those head models.
Im using them in my setup. the only one that is a real standout is the hellknight head and only if viewed from below as you can see right through it.
the shalrath and zombie heads are less noticable.
anyway, theres the ones in the above post based on sock and chillos models if you prefer... I dont but thats me...

[NightFright]

Well, the new heads are ok, and I said, at least the Vore and Zombie are also replacement candidates. The Hellknight is so close to the original actually it's kinda hard to spot differences, but I'll take that.

So yeah, you can go ahead with making bloody head skins. However, I hope those model bottoms can still be added. I dunno how much further we should still go with ripping. Again, that new Chthon can also be useful for the Lavaman. It might finally get that bulldog face we couldn't make with the thin mug of Chillo's offering.

Oh, and sadly that new Zombie doesn't help with DoA since they didn't add the missing animations to it.

Should we use their Rotfish as well? It has rather subtle changes, but it's still a bit better.

[osjclatchford]

oh, yeah I always forget the fish... yep. tis better (with its inner mouth detail an all that) so why not?
put it this way, it'll be going in my setup.
probably the enforcer too, and maybe even the knight but I'd have to see those in action side by side with chillos/lunerans to make that choice.
lunerans knight does have a special place in my heart... its anims are perfect.
the more I obsessively look at vids/pics the new stuff the more I doubt some aspects of ours.
till I look at the shambler... LOL

[NightFright]

So, to sum it up in order to have a proper to-do-list:

Missing MD5 conversions (looking at Seven with puppy dog eyes):
Chthon, Enforcer, Rotfish (, Grenade Launcher?)

Variants (reskins) still to be made:
Minotaur Statue, Mummy, Lavaman

Headgibs to be remade/finished:
Death Knight (+ Minotaur Statue), Zombie (+ Mummy), Vore, Enforcer (?)

Maybe Tea Monster can help with the heads. Those are very simple models without any animation. They just need to be cut from the rest of their model properly, with a bit of blood and flesh added.

After that, I think we should be done. Regarding weapons, we are good unless you want to give the GL/Prox Mine Gun a shot, anyway. I general, I hope we are soon done with replacing existing stuff since it's getting kinda tiresome, and regarding ID1 content, I think we can't get more material to work with than what we got now. If there's anything left after this, it would be for the mission packs.