Darren Wilson NOT indicted

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Why would I be butt hurt? I originally said wow, you asked Wow what? I obliged lol.

13% =/= most. Can't get mad over someone elses ignorance, noting there is a stark difference between stupidity and ignorance,I found your statements ignorant.

[wicked_lord]

Why would I be butt hurt? I originally said wow, you asked Wow what? I obliged lol.

13% =/= most. Can't get mad over someone elses ignorance, noting there is a stark difference between stupidity and ignorance,I found your statements ignorant.

Black unemployment three times higher in Ferguson, because of Obama, Lou Dobbs claims | PunditFact

That is the article to sum up the possibility of Ferguson residents getting help from government entities. A median income of $10,000 is just WOW.

hey call it ignorant if you want too that is your opinion. You dont phase me one bit as you post ignorant shit all the time too.

[Dutch]

I don't intend to add fuel to this fire, but it is interesting how Americans are constantly judged on being primitive and, in this instance, medieval by people who live in nations that have historically performed mass genocides motivated by racism and political gain.

America has had several bad calls and rough spots (present day included), but we've never been anywhere close to medieval in respect to other nations.

The Soviet union, the third Reich, and the English empire come to mind.

[Cobalt]

Mike Browns mom is pregnant again already, shes clearly been traumatized ....

[Dilligaf]

It's sad to say but race relations will never get better in this country with people like Al Sharpton running around the country screaming racism every time something like this happens. The police officer was under attack. Check the facts. What if that kid had gotten ahold of the officers gun and shot him dead. Would he have shot his partner too? Everyone makes choices. Mr. Brown made a bad choice IMO.
We were taught as children to respect the law, black or white. When the man says stop, you STOP. You don't attack cause you think you're a badass, and if you do, bad things will most likely happen, and most likely, to you!

[xaGe]

I agree with everything you said Dilligaf! When ordered to stop, this 18 year old, 300lbs man chose to charge the officer to fight him for his gun. That's assault with deadly intent and I for one would shoot any man or woman attempting that one me. He got what he deserved for being stupid, not for the color of his skin.

If it was any other race in the same situation charging a white or black police officer it would of been a non issue. You know because its SELF DEFENSE!

People using racism as an excuse to loot and burn the town ARE animals in it for themselves with no interest in justice for anyone BUT themselves.

It makes me sick. "Only in America?" Right?!

#AllLivesMatter

[golden_boy]

Wicked Lord, Primal Love: You are racist douchebags.

European Union is not a socialist country. You must be out of your mind. And most normal states don't have jury courts, they have trained judges and attorneys, several of them, because those are better qualified to judge than John Doe is.

A judge is not a dictator. It has nothing to do with "keeping government in check". Judges are not part of government.

I guess your president is a socialist too, since he says "black communities don't just make this up."

Common sense? Occam's Razor? Often things really are what they seem.

Oh and, keeping your nose in your own country? You've got soldiers stationed all around the globe, and you make war where you please. America is the country that keeps its nose everywhere else. And don't say "yeah that#s just the government." You're a voter, you've got democracy, it's your problem too.

And the victim was legally an adult? Did the cop check his id before he shot him?

[xaGe]

^wow..

[wicked_lord]

Wicked Lord, Primal Love: You are racist douchebags.

European Union is not a socialist country. You must be out of your mind. And most normal states don't have jury courts, they have trained judges and attorneys, several of them, because those are better qualified to judge than John Doe is.

A judge is not a dictator. It has nothing to do with "keeping government in check". Judges are not part of government.

I guess your president is a socialist too, since he says "black communities don't just make this up."

Common sense? Occam's Razor? Often things really are what they seem.

Oh and, keeping your nose in your own country? You've got soldiers stationed all around the globe, and you make war where you please. America is the country that keeps its nose everywhere else. And don't say "yeah that#s just the government." You're a voter, you've got democracy, it's your problem too.

And the victim was legally an adult? Did the cop check his id before he shot him?

You can sit on a shaft and rotate. Call me a racist and dont even know my background. In highschool i dated 2 black chicks and a spanish chick. I have 3 bi racial nephews whos dads are black and all 3 dads are dirtbags. Now Im racist? Pfft. Get real.

I have nothing to do with where the troops are stationed. I as in ME you moron keep my nose to my own country. What part of smart are you? You act like every other wannabe smart person here. In reality we all have imperfections and you are truly showing it.

Were you there to see if the cop checked his ID? maybe he was attscked before he could verify his ID. You ever been a LEO? If you have never walked in a cops shoes then you dont know what goes on out there. I have been in those shoes I have seen what goes on in the real world. When you monday morning quarterback from your computer I cant expect nothing more then another fumble. Get out enjoy life and see the real world. I travel for a living so I see what else is out here. Do you?

[wicked_lord]

Michael Brown's beautiful arrest record.

Even though Darren Wilson did not know this during the time of the shooting because he did not get the chance to get his information, this still played a factor in the eyes of the grand jury. I got this information for a public servant even though this is public record.

Description: Burglary � 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Assault 1st Degree � Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo:565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Also a member of the Vice Lords gang, 6�3″ and nearly 300 lbs.
What else would be found if his juvie record was unsealed ? How about this?
Brown has a second degree murder charge on his juvenile arrest record.

[gdiddy62]

This has been interesting to say the least to listen to you all bicker, so I'll pitch my 2 cents into the ring as well.

1. golden_boy is correct, all of this behavior is a symptom of an underlying disease which none of us, in spite of what we might think, is privy to. That means there is something going on in Ferguson, but what, we may never know. Even if I do NOT think looting is appropriate in any way doesn't mean I shouldn't try to understand the cause. Why? To keep it from happening again and to be sure that ALL sides are not violating civil rights.

2. Nowhere in the law does it say burglary or past instances of it warrants a death penalty, so digging up the past in this instance is pointless. I understand that if you are an officer and someone grabs for your weapon that you will be fearful, BUT I will question openly the number of times he shot this young man.

Now, since none of us were there means ALL of us have no idea what truly happened so why let this divide us into these polarized camps that call names, demonize and show the Neanderthal behavior that we seem to be criticizing??????

[PrimalLove]

@golden_boy

I do not believe I said anything racist. I just said I disagreed that racism played any part in this shooting. Certainly it is a race charged issue after the fact. But it wasn't the reason for the shooting. I am not sure what you mean by, did he check his id? It is not the officer's concern in an intense situation like that to check the persons id. My purpose in mentioning his age was simply to show that in fact he was not a child even tho you stated he was. It was meant as a correction of your incorrect statement. Tho it is often portrayed in the media as if he were a child so the mistake is I suppose reasonable without knowing the facts.

I never called any country socialist tho I feel this statement was aimed towards wicked_lord so I will give that a pass.

And most normal states don't have jury courts, they have trained judges and attorneys, several of them, because those are better qualified to judge than John Doe is.

Perhaps I should clarify tho i believe I was pretty clear. I said most "common law jurisdictions" have jury trials. I did not mean to imply that all states do nor do I know what you mean by "normal" states. This seems to be an obtuse statement to make.

As for jury trials, I am not sure where you got the impression that professionals are not part of the process? They don't simply put jurors into a room and say hey here is some evidence to read let me know what you think. Well trained, professional attorney's present their evidence to the jury and they make a decision based on the evidence provided. The judge will carry out the sentencing based on this ruling. So your statement doesn't make sense.

I respect judges and the tough job that they have but to say they are somehow more qualified to make a ruling than juries is a strange statement. Both juries and judges can be bias. Both have to make decisions based on the same evidence. I can't say one is necessarily more qualified than the other. Nor does it mean that either one will make the right ruling. At the end of the day they are all human. In the US court system you have to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt. So to say that a judge is some how more qualified to make such a decision than an entire jury deliberating on the matter after rigorously going over the evidence presented by professional, competent attorneys is a strange statement to make. The decision is easier to make when guided by reasonable doubt. Our system is not perfect, but it has worked well historically in America. It is probably the most fair and balanced court system in the world. Tho I am biased on this issue.

A judge is not a dictator. It has nothing to do with "keeping government in check". Judges are not part of government.

I never said a judge was a dictator. My statement was meant in a more general way. But I will address this point. Judges are indeed part of the government. In the US it is called the Judicial branch. This branch is part of our separation of power or checks and balances. The judicial branch interprets the laws and carry out sentencing. Keeping state power in check is a founding principle of our nation. So, although trial by jury have many uses beyond this, a core principle of it's use is to keep state power in check. Judges are agents of the state and are not formally elected to this position. They are appointed. This is fine, but this does not mean they are above reproach or scrutiny. They are well qualified to interpret law because they are educated on this matter to a great extent. But does this make them more qualified to make a ruling based on evidence? Hardly. They have to make a decision based on the evidence provided and whether they were able to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. I think a jury can also make this decision. They are indeed given the same complete testimony or witnesses and presentation of available evidence. Same as the judge. To place full trust in an agent of the state is misplaced. It is a right in the US to have a trial by jury for this very reason tho not exclusively so.

Jury trials can of course be biased and make bad decisions. But we do have a rigorous jury selection process to help to weed out potential biases and other problems with a juror. This helps to keep the jury as impartial as possible. It is not perfect of course, but the system has worked well for us.

I guess your president is a socialist too, since he says "black communities don't just make this up."

I don't think Obama is a socialist. In his mind, he is taking us down the right path. his viewpoint of where the US should be going is unfortunately held by many influential people in academia as well as many on the democratic left. Sometimes called progressives here but over the pond "progressive' doesn't probably mean much to you. It's hard for me to describe but believe me in America there is a stark difference between the left and right ideologies. So I do not hate Obama. I just don't agree with his vision of the future. But I respect that the American people voted for him. He did platform on change, which is what people wanted, but they really did not receive.

I don't think black communities are just making stuff up. I just think they have an incorrect view of the world based on human nature, false assumptions and confirmation biases. I certainly recognize that racism still exist in America and that black communities suffer dis-proportionally from poverty and crime. This is a statistical reality. But is it because of racism in America? I do not believe so. There really are not any barriers to success in America if you work hard and are determined. Is it harder for people in communities of poverty and crime? Of course it is. And I want that to end as much as anyone. But its not because cops are racist or that white people are holding down black people or those of color. That just simply isn't the case and it is doing everyone in that community a disservice to tell them that is what is happening. They have a twisted world view that will guide them into the wrong direction. It doesn't encourage taking personal responsibility. It just makes you believe everyone is out to get you.

In an environment where everyone believes this way, is it any wonder why the rioting is happening? I am all for protesting. It is healthy to be critical of the state and it's agents. It is healthy to protest and fight for things you believe in. No question i respect and admire such convictions. But looting and rioting is not productive. It has destroyed the community and businesses in the area. Setting the community back years. Maybe decades. This is not productive nor will it lead to positive change. It's a disgrace.

Believe me, I want things to get better for that community same as I want for the entire US. Nothing makes me happier than to see people thriving and succeeding! It's what makes America so great! And it's citizens so resolute! People come from all over the world to be here and start a life and have freedom. It is something to be proud of in my mind. And I want to keep America that way as long as we can.

Oh and, keeping your nose in your own country? You've got soldiers stationed all around the globe, and you make war where you please. America is the country that keeps its nose everywhere else. And don't say "yeah that#s just the government." You're a voter, you've got democracy, it's your problem too.

I don't have much to say on this as I don't think this was directed to me. But I will say that I am not a big fan of our foreign policy nor do I think we should be the world's police force. And we do not make war where we please tho I see where you might get that impression based on some of the actions of the past two administrations. This is fair enough. But historically we do not do this. Nor do we conquer and take territory. We were the first modern nation not born of Imperialism or conquest. I call that progress considering every nation before us used the conquest method to gain wealth and prosperity. In other words, taking from others.

When we won the Mexican war we did not take control of Mexico. We gave it back and forgave their debts. We did keep half but to be fair a large majority of that part was Texas at the time that had already fought and won its Independence from Mexico. They had joined the Union and so when Mexico declared war on them they basically declared war on us. So we obliged. But if we were about conquest we would have just taken the land and called it part of America. This didn't happen.

We fought to stop Nazis during world war II. I do not remember taking an territory for our selves. In fact, we helped to rebuild Europe and our allies. I certainly don't think we were a force for evil in that war do you? It is true we have many military bases across the globe and I am not a big fan of it myself. But, an added bonus to our presence in terms of our navy has been very beneficial to many countries when it comes to global trade. We keep the shipping lanes safe for passing ships carrying imports and exports to various countries around the world. I certainly don't see this as a negative. It is an economic positive to many countries around the world. So although I can sympathize that our current foreign policy is problematic and gives the impression that we will do what we please, this is not historically how we have handled ourselves in foreign policy. We make mistakes and have done horrible things to be sure. But we have overwhelmingly been a force for good in the world. Tho admittedly some of our actions over the last 15 years have been questionable.

it is also worth mentioning that whatever your thoughts are about the Afgan or Iraq war, we did not simply come in and take. We did not take the oil fields, we didn't take the precious minerals from Afghanistan. We did not take the land. In fact, we built infrastructure and helped to train Iraq forces to deal with insurgency. We made many mistakes and the reason we even went to war in Iraq was based on incorrect intelligence. Not to mention we had some crazy idea that we could just drop democracy in and that it would some how take a foot hold immediately. This was a misunderstanding of cultural and religious implications of such an undertaking. Something the Bush Administration clearly did not understand. Nor was the war handled well. We were ill prepared to fight an insurgent enemy that hid among the innocent civilian population. But, our country was attacked and such things cannot go unanswered. It may be that our foreign policy created the conditions for such a retaliation. I am willing to concede this point. But it took extremist and terrorist to manipulate people into doing it. Whatever their motives, they are misplaced and represent a misguided and dangerous world-view. We are not the creators of terrorist or extremist. They create themselves based on ideology and warped world views. But we are happy to answer their threats with force.

[PrimalLove]

@gdiddy62

I only wanted to comment on your second point.

BUT I will question openly the number of times he shot this young man.

It is unlikely you have ever shot anyone or had to. This is normal as I don't think many try to go out of their way to experience this. But I have. Nothing can prepare you for that moment. You can train an officer or a solider to pull the trigger, but not how to live with the consequences.

Why did he shoot so many times? Why do officers often fire too many times? This is actually a natural reaction to anyone who hasn't been under fire or in a serious fight or flight reaction and isn't use to the adrenaline rush that comes from being under fire or being in a life or death situation. Tho I do not have all of the evidence what has been leaked seems to suggest a struggle took place. Anyone that has been in a fight understands the tunnel vision that happens. The change in how time is perceived, etc. This is because adrenaline is being excreted into your bloodstream. Now you can train people to deal with this reaction much more effectively. Indeed people who have been to war torn areas are much better at dealing with stressful situations because they have learned to mitigate their flight or fight response. Veteran cops also respond better to these situations. So it is trainable. But most of it comes from experience.

The simple fact is, officers don't often get much training in this area. They don't often have to actually use their weapon. This is good thing to be sure but it also means they don't get exposed to those life or death (fight or flight) situations as often and when they do come down they are trained to react by drawing their weapon and firing. The firing multiple times is more of a reaction to the adrenaline response than it is a reasoned intent. So the multiple shots does seem over zealous from a bystanders perspective because they were not in that moment. It wasn't life or death for them. They did not have a gun and have adrenaline flowing through their veins and have to make a split second decision that will alter the course of the life of the person being shot and the person doing the shooting.

So it is not all surprising when someone says an Officer emptied a clip into a suspect. Or a group of cops fired 6 shots each all into the same person. Because I have experience in this area I already know this is not surprising. It would happen to almost anyone in that situation of intense panic, fear, and adrenaline. Nor is it surprising when officers use a gun when it seems more "humane" to use a taser or shoot him in the leg. The reality is you cannot make that call from an armchair. You just simply do not understand the conditions in which the officer faces. Until you do, making judgments like that is understandable but irresponsible and misinformed.

Nothing can prepare you for what happens after you shoot. That is something they cannot hope to teach you. It is something you have to come to terms with. Not everyone can get through it. It is never easy to take a life. Nor is the decision easy to make and is regrettable especially when the decision is made because of your natural instinct to survive.

As I stated before, I have no idea if he is innocent or guilty. The grand jury just ruled not to indict based on the evidence. But using how many times he shot the victim as a metric of his intent is understandable as an outside observer but ill informed. I would like officers to get additional training in helping to control adrenaline flight or fight responses and we can do this. It is an active technique taught to special forces groups world wide as well as specialized swat units. But the funding for such additional training would likely hold this from being a reality.

[Cobalt]

Well at least these guys have enough class to not start degrading the discussion further by name calling.

Maybe you need reminding that you would not even be on the internet much less have a Quake to enjoy yourself with each passing day if not for America. Just about everything you take for granted every day over in your country that uses electricity has its origins coming from OUR country, not any European culture over there where you are. So go ahead and insult the people who have paid taxes that support R&D in colleges and other countless other institutions here for decades, so that you can sit back over there with this technology we bought to the world amd can throw it back into our face. When you decide to walk a mile in an Americans shoes, then you can start passing judgment on its culture and its people.

Wicked Lord, Primal Love: You are racist douchebags.

[Cobalt]

No but if you are caught robbing a store, the owner or the officer on the scene has a right to open fire if they dont surrender, thats common sense. If they shoot to kill they can always say it was them or me. Has been going on for centuries now and its not gonna change.

2. Nowhere in the law does it say burglary or past instances of it warrants a death penalty,