Darren Wilson NOT indicted

[gdiddy62]

@Cobalt and PrimalLove

Killing = common sense?

I think I see the problem.

Emptying a clip or as many rounds as in this situation does NOT make sense to me. And, YES, I've had training. Today, though, I have no guns in my house by choice. NO, thankfully I've never been put in a kill or be killed scenario but I HAVE been bum rushed several times in my life by someone...NOT knowing if they had a weapon or not so I know what you are referencing. Mind you this is in a prison where there could possibly be weapons. At NO time did I feel deadly force was warranted even though I WAS fearful for my safety.

I will also disagree about the name calling as well. There were many references to racism based on assumptions of behavior or ignorance of references, etc. It does NOT have to be blatant to be considered as such. I AM proudly one of those liberal minded individuals from academia that has educated himself and also been very lucky to experience much of the world in a variety of ways. Progressive? I guess that depends on how you want to reference it.

Our culture now IS violence and an attitude of believe as I do or else. Arrogance and militarism are the norm with the ideas of the Bush Doctrine and what we see evidenced here in this thread with the polarization I spoke of. Rah rah USA? Wow, if that is all we are that is sad. We are and should be much more than that.

[PrimalLove]

@gdiddy62

@Cobalt and PrimalLove

NO, thankfully I've never been put in a kill or be killed scenario but I HAVE been bum rushed several times in my life by someone...NOT knowing if they had a weapon or not so I know what you are referencing.

I am not sure why I am often lumped with others that make statements I do not make. But I suppose that comes with the territory. I made no claim that killing = common sense. I am of course against killing someone and it is obviously a recourse of last resort. It is very traumatic to be one responsible for the death of another. So normal people have no desire to do so that includes police. I do not think you actually understand what i was referencing at all. I am not talking about gun training. All officers have this training. Nor am I speaking of killing or gun culture. I am talking about a psychological and physiological state of the body during fight or flight situations. More specifically during situations of intense violence or fear (Combat situations, etc.). Like for instance a gun going off at close range or the struggle against another that may be trying to take a weapon from you with the likely intent to use it against you. Again in this situation I have limited information of what happened in the case of Darren Wilson and Michael Brown. But what we know is the gun did go off close to both during the struggle in the car. This seems to be confirmed by findings of the autopsy report. Again I am not absolutely certain of this but I am generalizing for the purpose of the point of my statement. Getting "bum rushed" I am not sure qualifies for this situation. I assume you were/are a prison guard? In any event, those situations you reference while certainly dangerous and intense are not what I am describing.

If you had gone through such a situation you wouldn't have made the statement. Because you would know the effect. These effects are of course well documented and studied. So its not uncommon knowledge in academia of the mind sets of officers involved in using deadly force. Loss of memory, time dilation, diminished sound, heightened focus, tunnel vision, etc. As I said, response to fight or flight can vary dramatically depending on who you are, amount of training you have and experience in those same situations or lack thereof.

My point isn't to justify killing anyone. Only to explain that nothing is shocking about the officers reaction. The use of the gun was part of his training and firing it more than needed was likely caused by his adrenaline rush during that moment.It wasn't his intent. Which is another point I made. Interviewed officers involved in deadly force situations will often lose time, and report not being in control. This is of course normal psychology and during situations of pure survival completely understandable even tho the outcome in this case was tragic. So anyone who has experienced this or knows a lot about the psychology of combat and fight or flight mechanism understands this reality. From a public perspective its reasonable to think its unjustified to shoot someone 6 times or more. The problem is this has nothing to do with the actual situation that the officer was facing and does not take into account his psychological and physiological state at the time. So again, it's not to say its right or wrong and I shouldn't even say its justified. It's just a reality of the situation. It is simply normal to see this reaction given the conditions. Many suffer from these situations. For instance, the endless loop problem. In cases of people trapped in a burning building, some will succumb to the fear and repeatedly try to open a locked door even though they know it will not open. It is not because they are stupid. It is because of the adrenaline and lack of experience in those situations. So they choke. They are unable to think. This is also well documented in sports medicine among pro athletes. The psychology is similar.

I certainly don't mean to promote a culture of violence or to justify unlawful shootings. I cannot say that happened here because he will not be indicted. The grand jury sees it as not having enough probable cause given the evidence. I can accept that because I believe the process was fair. Others may not agree. I just didn't think it made sense to condemn someone based on number of shots. And I know people often make this assumption about police shooting too many times during these altercations and I realize they do not understand the context or the reality of the situation. That was why I commented on it. I wouldn't expect many to understand this point. Like I said, people don't go out of their way to be in these situations. Which is normal. And I even expect and understand the conclusion that it doesn't make sense to you. And I have explained why it doesn't make sense to you. You simply do not have proper frame of reference.

I will also disagree about the name calling as well. There were many references to racism based on assumptions of behavior or ignorance of references, etc. It does NOT have to be blatant to be considered as such. I AM proudly one of those liberal minded individuals from academia that has educated himself and also been very lucky to experience much of the world in a variety of ways. Progressive? I guess that depends on how you want to reference it.

If you are a liberal or progressive it was not my intent to offend. I just simply do not hold all or many of the positions of that side. It is of course difficult to make generalizations about liberal thought as I am a firm believer in classic liberalism but it has changed far from that original view. I do not want to see the country go the way of modern liberalism. It isn't what our country was founded on and is diametric to it's founding principles. Not in all respects mind you. And I certainly can get behind some progressive ideas, but it is just simply a position I often disagree with but don't mind having discussion on. In any event, you are correct. Progressive can mean many things but I was speaking mostly to what it has come to mean in America. Which I understand not all countries over the pond might understand or know the difference. Some times its hard for me to know and I am over here. :/

I am not sure about the name calling you refer. I don't believe I did any of that. I suppose that is directed at others? It may be advised not to lump people into your responses and maybe give a point by point of what I may have said that you take issue with.

Our culture now IS violence and an attitude of believe as I do or else. Arrogance and militarism are the norm with the ideas of the Bush Doctrine and what we see evidenced here in this thread with the polarization I spoke of. Rah rah USA? Wow, if that is all we are that is sad. We are and should be much more than that.

I have already spoken that I am not a fan of our current foreign policy so I see little reason to address you last statement but I will. I suppose you didn't read my responses. I am no fan of being the police force of the world but also don't think it means we are some evil empire. Our bases are questionable but are not there to oppress anyone or for occupation sake. It is not as if we don't have permission to have those bases there. May I advise asking your respective governments to have them removed if they are a problem? I don't see the call for that too often. I also am not a fan of war. But if you attack us I expect a response. Any group who does should also expect this. If that's militaristic then guilty as charged.

EDIT: Also not sure what you mean about rah, rah USA? I am not sure why it would be considered strange to feel patriotic about ones country. This seems to me a strange remark. And it isn't all we are. I made several points about what makes us special. There is no question that America is special. I much like how Bono put it. America is an idea. And its an idea worth fighting for and an idea worth cherishing. We certainly didn't invent freedom or free markets, but we made those ideas rockstars.

[Cobalt]

Well thats great for you. Unfortunately not everyone , especially young officers with not much experience have been down that road yet. I would guess a 300 lb person does take more bullets to put down than a 200 lb person. Or were u that guy on the coop server the other day trying to take out the Shub with the nailgun? I just dont see police out there roaming around looking to murder people like this has been blown out to be.

Oh and no I am not a ra ra cheerleader all the time when it comes to the path the USA is heading down right now. I do feel patriotic about its past accomplishments and contributions to the world as far as technical advancements etc. I dont feel that is a shield to hide behind forever. I dont know how long past accomplishments can overshadow whats going on now, and Im sure plenty of people see them already trampled on and worthless and to be taken for granted, but I try to focus on being grateful that things are not worse.

@Cobalt and PrimalLove

Killing = common sense?

I think I see the problem.

Emptying a clip or as many rounds as in this situation does NOT make sense to me. And, YES, I've had training. Today, though, I have no guns in my house by choice. NO, thankfully I've never been put in a kill or be killed scenario but I HAVE been bum rushed several times in my life by someone...NOT knowing if they had a weapon or not so I know what you are referencing. Mind you this is in a prison where there could possibly be weapons. At NO time did I feel deadly force was warranted even though I WAS fearful for my safety.

I will also disagree about the name calling as well. There were many references to racism based on assumptions of behavior or ignorance of references, etc. It does NOT have to be blatant to be considered as such. I AM proudly one of those liberal minded individuals from academia that has educated himself and also been very lucky to experience much of the world in a variety of ways. Progressive? I guess that depends on how you want to reference it.

Our culture now IS violence and an attitude of believe as I do or else. Arrogance and militarism are the norm with the ideas of the Bush Doctrine and what we see evidenced here in this thread with the polarization I spoke of. Rah rah USA? Wow, if that is all we are that is sad. We are and should be much more than that.

[gdiddy62]

I just dont see police out there roaming around looking to murder people like this has been blown out to be.

I agree for the most part, although I have met some personalities that should not be given the power of the badge and gun.

PrimalLove you were lumped in because you responded to my post.

Bono is right, America is an idea, but it is an idea we have not been attending to very much lately. It is an idea that needs constant attention and creativity which I do not see much of anymore. I too meant no offense, but did want to impress the need for intelligent, civil dialog and debate and consideration of ideas beyond our own experiences. I still believe the violence and looting shows us an underlying issue which has been festering for a great while. My hope is that we use that "idea" of America to come together as one. The citizens of Ferguson and the rest of this country are ALL Americans regardless of color, religion, sexual orientation or political affiliation.

I wish we would remember that more often....

[PrimalLove]

@gdiddy62

Agreed

[gdiddy62]

To all:

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

[Dilligaf]

One thing I don't understand... Why do folks think it's OK to burn a completely innocent persons lively hood to the ground. Someone that had absolutely nothing to do with what happened in Ferguson. Actually, someone that chose to be there, and open a store there, and do nothing but serve the community in good faith. Why the hell do you loot and burn their store. I think a lot of them could be out of towners looking for an easy opportunity to score some quick liquor and sneakers? Yeah, scumbags. I wouldn't blame them if all the good citizens of the area left. Once this kind of "disease" moves into town it's hard to recover. There'res a lot of blame to go around here though. I probably would have chosen to stand and protect what's mine. Stay away from my store or I'll shoot your ass too! Everyone in the country knew what was going to happen when this verdict came down. The government included. Really think they couldn't have prevented this, burning, looting, unrest. BS. They could have put enough "boots on the ground" to prevent it. I personally don't think they wanted to. Just one of my conspiracy theories.

#WickedLordknowswhathestalkingabout
#IpackHeatAlways

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Let's cut the bullshit and just examine the original post,because the OP is why we are here.

Why would it be good news that an officer wasn't indicted? Would it be due to a preconceived bias that the officer was white and the victim was not? Was the officer "Home Team" noting you are an ex-cop?? What about the fact you chose to make a post closely resembling to popping a bottle of bubbly in celebration. Animals? Did you have any intentions of including white folk into that over generalized description of homo sapiens? There is nothing that removes white folk from being capable of stupidity and ignorance, you're just feeding into these facts the more you put on this facade. You've heard the term 'digging the hole deeper' yes? Well I'm absolutely positive it applies here.

Moving past the OP and focusing on "Reasons I am not racist".....

Racist's tend to go out of their way to prove they aren't racist. That's not atypical of racism, that's pretty much just how it goes.

[damage_inc]

Regarding the indictment: The Ferguson Grand Jury Decision Proves 'The System' Still 'Works':https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...ll-works.shtml

The world you think you live in is an illusion. The evidence is all around you and once you get information from sources other than those who couldn't give two shits about you, you will see this to be true.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

I don't know, I can admit that much. Wasn't there, don't want anything but justice. Who's best suited for deciding that?

[xaGe]

People using racism as an excuse to loot and burn the town ARE animals in it for themselves with no interest in justice for anyone BUT themselves.

Sorry missed where people were calling out a specific race as animals? Unless you consider People as non white only? Your weird.

Animals? Did you have any intentions of including white folk into that over generalized description of homo sapiens? There is nothing that removes white folk from being capable of stupidity and ignorance, you're just feeding into these facts the more you put on this facade.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

look where he quoted black statistics.
http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-tal...tml#post154461
I dont know I just cant see any happiness for anything being discussed on the subject in the OP.
Nothing to be proud about.

[PrimalLove]

@damage_inc

Interesting article but far from unbiased information. Any competent legal scholar will tell you that not only was this grand jury process fair but probably the most thorough and opened process it has ever been. Although i am sure the author of this post is a terrific editorialist he is not a legal scholar. I actually think it should have went to trial. And I also acknowledge that indeed it would have been easy for the prosecutor to get an indictment without the need of the grand jury. But the fact that indictments are so easy to get should give you some pause and ask why? Should it be so easy to do so?

Just because the jury took so much time to deliberate on this shouldn't be a cause of contention. Indeed this is a strange position to have. And yes the prosecutor didn't recommend charges. This is indeed unusual. But not for nefarious reasons. This prosecutor was actually trying to be fair and balanced. In short, he was actually seeking justice as opposed to just doing his job. Which is to prosecute and win. I still believe it should have went to trial but to say this man somehow threw the case to the grand jury because he knew what the outcome would be or that the grand jury is somehow biased towards police officers is not realistic. The article is oddly conspiratorial. This prosecutor was very open and transparent about this case and what was presented to the grand jury. This isn't something you see often and should be praised. I may have wanted a trial but top legal scholars know better than I on this topic so I will refer to their expect advise over this articles well meaning but biased conclusions.

[damage_inc]

Yeah Primal, you keep trusting those in power buddy Oh you mean like bringing actual justice, like you or I would receive, if we did something like this dirt bag:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...sentence.shtml

If you don't like that "biased" article follow link within! Just so you know, I personally knew someone who was caught with kiddie porn(4 images) on his computer, he went to Coleman Correctional Facility for THREE years! Labeled a sexual offender for LIFE. No involvement with any person in any communicative manner!

How is it possible that the two crimes warranted completely illogical sentences, for the given facts of guilt! It's not.

The disparity the first link I provided showed factual numbers illustrating the difference between those in power and those not.

[Phenom]

I can't wait till police officers start waring "GoPro"s... Then this type of thing will be less of an issue.

A white cop shoots a black MAN, that makes the cop racist?

I'm not defending anybody here but lets flip a few variables here and see if we can guess the outcome...

Lets say...

A white cop shoots a white man... Surprising? No not really. Racist? No.

A black cop shoots a black man... Surprising? No not really. Racist? No.

A black cop shoots a white man... Surprising? No not really. Racist? very much a possibility, just ask the racist people.

A black cop shoots a white man... Surprising? No not really. Racist? very much a possibility just ask the racist people.

If you're black or lived in a black community for any length of time and really got to know the mentality of most black people in places like Ferguson you'll find out that being black has a stigma about it that can't be shook.

I personally haven't lived in Ferguson but I have grown up being black and I've witnessed racism everywhere I've gone... (Alaska, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Kansas, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii).

Racist people tend to be ignorant and throw the baby out with the bathwater without taking the time to understand things for themselves. Most grew up with racism and hate in their life and learn it from parents or they think because because 1 person of a different color has screwed them over that they're all like that and that is utter bullsh!t.

I've met and befriended many ex-racist people and even questioned them on their past racist relations and all their responses are generally "racism is stupid. I was stupid".

The reason racism exists is because racist are stupid and think their blood is "redder then everyone else" of a different color, or don't even know that America was built on the blood of true native American *Indians* (Happy Thanksgiving btw) and tell people of color to "go home".

You can't say racism doesn't exist because there are still A LOT of self proclaimed racist everywhere...

However on the case in Ferguson I do not feel this was racism at play.

I do feel this was a case of stupidity meeting up with inexperience and painting a worst case scenario.

I also feel that if Michael Brown was whiter then a sheet of paper and pulled the same suicide act he would have still ended up riddled with bullets and the whole situation would have blown over by now and instead of "a racist cop shoots a black MAN" it would be something along the lines of "Police brutality & militarization of police needs to stop."

In either case it's an outcry from we the people. Not just one specific color of humans but humans who actually want to see a change... Then you get the ignorant people who completely miss the point and mess things up for the people trying to make people aware to the true situation.

I feel that police need to be better equipped with recording evidence in order to prepare for situations like this, should always have to at least attempt to use a taser or rubber bullets to stop an aggressor or be held accountable for their actions just like the criminal has to or else we will see more and more force being used by the police. Police do not serve and protect YOU, they serve and protect the law and taking someone's life despite the color of their skin should be the very last resort in any situation unless they HAVE a weapon and are actively shooting the office or another INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY human being.

A police officer should already know they most likely will run into situations like this and should expect it at any given moment and a law abiding police officer HAS the right to return to their family after their shift... But I'm starting to question that right applies to police officers who have a suspect in custody or suspect being detained or just a suspect as I've seen a lot of uncalled for shootings and deaths at the hands of police officers who are supposed to be upholding the law.

I don't hate police officers I've actually worked close with at least 2 police officers as security officers that I'm still very good friends with who live in my state.

I don't hate anyone of any color. I do hate criminals who try to take my right to live as a human being on this earth and shit on it with their power tripping/entitled ego and that implies to all humans whether you ware a badge, suit, outfit, costume or even run around bare ass naked.