That recent terrorist attack on that Club......

[DeathMaster]

Muslims don't associate themselves with Terrorism.
People like you associate Muslims with Terrorism.

That's where you're wrong: the terrorists associate themselves with Muslims.

I understand this may be a sensitive topic due to religious reasons but we can't dodge the reality that in the end they're basing their stuff off the Quran. They're shouting "Allahu Akbar", which literally translates to "Allah is Greater", the exact same words the Muslims use when praying. I'll be the first one here to say there's fucked up shit in every religion, including my own, but we can't exclude one because "Not all of them are bad...".

Let me put it to you this way: is the Westboro Baptist Church bad because they are Christian, or are they bad because their way of expressing Christianity is morally wrong and disrespectful?

[wicked_lord]

All i'm gonna say, is if at least a few of those people in the nightclub had been legally armed, this entire scenario may have panned out drastically different.

Up here in Idaho, if some scumbag starts popping shots in a public setting, I guarantee you a few dozen other people are clearing leather to return fire to the son of a bitch.

Probably why there are very few shootings in these parts...bad guys are looking to dominate other people, not to get in a gun fight.

We have the most concealed carry permit holders out of all 50 states here in FL. Last known count was 1.56 million. Not even Texas has a million yet. The laws here in FL which fall under statute 790.25 prohibits the carry of a firearm in an area that dispenses alcohol (not serve alcohol). Therefore there is no case law that clears up whether or not you can legally carry in a club that has a dance floor or an area seperate from the area that dispenses the alcohol. Example: you can legally carry in Applebees or Chilis as long as you do not go into the bar area, however in a club, what do they consider the bar area? Thats the problem we have in FL. The definitions of these laws are not clear and no one wants to be a test case voluntarily so we have to get clarification from the Florida Supreme Court but they dont have time to hear oral arguments over non case laws such as this.

[H1CC]

Wow you guys sound a lot more educated on this than I am, um, and I kinda agree with DeathMaster on the point that Terrorists associate themselves with Islam, not the other way around.
DeathMaster what is this 'religion' that you have that is 'guilty of antihomosexuality too'? You kept mentionining it as an older denomination but haven't mentioned what it was. Also I think I had you confused for ShadowShift at first because he went by "Death Knight" earlier...

[Dutch]

@wicked_lord

Yeah that is an issue...too many different rules that cause confusion and make people apprehensive to arm themselves. It should ultimately be up to the nightclub whether or not people can be armed on their premises if you ask me. I can see the state's argument for discouraging weapons in an area full of intoxicated people however. But we just witnessed one possible result of that argument in effect. Freedom comes with collateral sometimes.

@DeathMaster

Well said sir. I think you nailed it.

@H1CC

If you are easily offended, then you and gypsy are not going to get along. At all. Lol.


The way I look at all this is merely conditioning. Like Pavlov's dogs. We constantly see radical islamists killing people on a daily basis. Over time, we naturally stereotype Islam. The key word is naturally. Stereotyping is an instinctual response to avoid danger. You associate a certain thing as being dangerous, so you go to extremes to avoid it. Call it right or call it wrong, but anyone who claims they don't stereotype is either lying, in denial, or lacking the most basic of survival instincts. Where this gets complicated, is when we form personal relationships with people we would otherwise stereotype. One of the nicest men I've ever known is a Muslim. But even he is reasonable, and fully understands why the stereotype exists. He is outwardly critical of radical Muslims as well.

There is no black and white answer. The way I see it, until I really get to know someone, there's a certain level of distance I plan to maintain if they fit a certain stereotype. And I gurantee you there are a lot of people out there who feel the same about guys like me. Just the way we are as human beings. The world is not, has never been, and will never be, some big happy family where we all sing songs around a campfire and pat each other on the back. That's fantasyland. We're all too different, and there will ALWAYS be someone out there who you wants you dead simply because of who you are. That "someone" in this conversation is radical islamists.

[MadGypsy]

You bring up a good point, Dutch. I can't just walk down the street in my own neighborhood without the soccer mom walking her dog and kids crossing the street or turning the corner before we cross paths. Actually even male college students do that too. These people have no way to know that I'd be the first person to try and save them against exactly what they think I might be. Do I get all offended and cry about being stereotyped? Of course not. I look questionable and I don't even have a militant hate group that anyone could attach me to. If I was walking down the street in robes and a hijab or whatever I would expect people to run like hell and hopefully not shoot me. I'd look like an even bigger problem.

@offended, never get along with me

it doesn't have to be that way. That's really funny to me but, it doesn't have to be that way. I find it strange that someone will have a strong opinion about something that has literally nothing to do with them and then get offended when encountered with an opposing strong opinion. We have arguments going both ways with the tolerance of Muslims and it's entirely possible the same people preaching tolerance can't even tolerate me, but want everyone else to blanket tolerate a group that may want to kill them. Last time I checked, I'm just outspoken and verbally aggressive.

Edit:

After a little thought about this I've decided to take one for the team. In order to make sure that everyone hates Muslims and stays excited about shooting them, I'm gonna join Islam. If my calculations are correct (and they rarely are) you should be able to pick up your free, government issued assault rifle from any federal building in the near future due to my decision. You are welcome.

[MadGypsy]

@what happened to me (sorry I missed this)

Nothing happened to me. I will state that I am good, though. The information you exposed is something I guessed long ago. There was simply no way you were a girl. You can hand me any novel in the universe with the cover ripped off and I will tell you if a male or female wrote it. I will be right every damn time. My only "point" here is that I'm good (lol). It doesn't matter to me what you identify as. I accept people based on their merits not preference...like I said, nothing happened to me.

For the record, I don't cross the street or acknowledge my gun when I see muslims or anyone else "dangerous". I really couldn't give 2 fucks what their intentions may be. So ironically, whereas I do not like these people I do nothing to outwardly disrespect them. My attitude is based more on extreme confidence rather than fear. Let some militant raghead start some shit in my presence.....it'd be like Christmas.

[nahuel]

immigration causes many problems , and hate attacks by migrants are not new. the problem now is that culture shock is too big. Immigration is also caused by large economic interests of lobby groups (immigrants = cheap labor). I personally think that each country should ensure sufficient quality of life to avoid people emigration .

My grandparents were immigrants Spanish , Portuguese and Italian. cause them to come to my country was the war and hunger. But now the world is very different!

there is also a fairly common myth to the politically correct discurse : " Immigrants do work that natives do not want to do "

This is quite false, simply: the immigrants come cheaper... and employers always want to pay cheaper...

What really strikes me is that in a country as advanced as USA , an unnstable and violent muslim guy, who had been investigated by the FBI (I'm sure that America has the best research agencies ) can buy a gun legally .

The gun ban in USA probably will not solve anything, but personally I think guns it should only be sold to right people (psychologically stable people, educated and good citizens ).

I know that my opinions do not interest ( as any discussion of this kind on the Internet) but I found interesting thread.

I hope everyone has a good day.

[DeathMaster]

DeathMaster what is this 'religion' that you have that is 'guilty of antihomosexuality too'? You kept mentionining it as an older denomination but haven't mentioned what it was.

I was referring to Christianity. I thought that was kinda obvious, but I guess when you're posting at 2:30 in the morning the tendency is to skip over some parts to get the point across.

[Dilligaf]

What really strikes me is that in a country as advanced as USA , an unnstable and violent muslim guy, who had been investigated by the FBI (I'm sure that America has the best research agencies ) can buy a gun legally

I think Obama is a closet Muslim and has leaned on all law enforcement, from the FBI down, to back off Muslims. Just my theory...
and I think there's more to this story...

[wicked_lord]

I think Obama is a closet Muslim and has leaned on all law enforcement, from the FBI down, to back off Muslims. Just my theory...
and I think there's more to this story...

2007 when Obama announced his presidency he was a muslim and a proud muslim at that. After his election he underwent alot of criticism for being a muslim and he pretended to convert his religion by going to a christian church. The pastor of that church obama attended clearly said obama was having a hard time converting but that he was going to continue onward. Obama even removed the ring he wore for awhile that on the inside of the ring it said "there is no god but allah". He wears that ring again and has stopped attending a church, he has attended several mosque in recent years. Also if you read his book, The Audacity of Hope, he said on page 261 �I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.�

Tell me, closet muslim? Nope, he is out there about it and does not give a damn what we think. I am for certain the Saudis helped his campaign and helped him get elected just like they are wity Hillary's campaign. I dont care what people say about Trump's attitude and his comments towards people, we dont need no PC, we need a man or woman with a pair who can run this country unafraid to speak their mind and do right by We The People.

Trump 2016!

[H1CC]

Obama's not a Muslim, he's a Muslim sympathizer.
There's a difference.

I think Obama is a closet Muslim and has leaned on all law enforcement, from the FBI down, to back off Muslims.

..
It's this attitude that "you're either with us or against us" regarding Muslims that makes it look like Obama's a 'pro-Muslim' person when really there is no such thing as 'pro-Muslim' or 'antiMuslim', just whether you practice Islam or not and whehter you're super uncomfortable around anyone that does.
I can't believe you guys think 'on-edge bigotry' is a good thing, like it keeps us on our toes, to avert potential danger from those few muslims who actually are terrorists-- I stand by what I said about the paranoia and fear being what the Terrorists want, and walk with as much confidence around someone wearing a long black beard, brown skin, and a checkered scarf over a brown sweater as I will with a bunch of white kids with ****y t-shirts and starbucks coffee drinks in hand.

Stereotyping is an instinctual response to avoid danger. You associate a certain thing as being dangerous, so you go to extremes to avoid it. Call it right or call it wrong, but anyone who claims they don't stereotype is either lying, in denial, or lacking the most basic of survival instincts.

..
I walked down the hall with plenty of brown-skinned women wearing headscarves and even a few men who if I had to compare looked more like the Terrorist team PC's from Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (on the Middle-East maps) than anything else. Hell, there were even conversations in their native language between some of these people (I had no way of knowing if this was an Arabic language or if they were just different-looking Mexicans-- they could have been speaking Taiwanese for all I know). It never struck me to contact someone to raise the terror alert level.
That I don't get uncomfortable admist the types of people who fit the 'Muslim stereotyping' doesn't mean I lack basic survival instincts (as Dutch said), it just means I'm not a fucking bigot.

If you are easily offended, then you and gypsy are not going to get along. At all. Lol.

and having to hear "meh, I'm not going to bother to pick out the straights" is incredibly offensive.

I didn't say that I was offended, but that what he was saying was incredibly offensive.
Trust me, you would know if I were offended-- like this:

The information you exposed is something I guessed long ago. There was simply no way you were a girl. You can hand me any novel in the universe with the cover ripped off and I will tell you if a male or female wrote it. I will be right every damn time.

..
I should probably also mention that I'm genderfluid, and I lean between both-male-and-female-on-female and both-male-and-female-on-male like the freakin' weather changes. My best friend Online says he gets different vibes from me in regards to gender depending on the day. My best guess is that Quake tends to bring out the more masculine side in me-- and that I'm highly defensive around you, MadG., which I attribute more to my (slightly more subservient, self-defensive, insecure etc.) male side than my stronger (personality-wise), but less frequently present, female side.
If I were really being 'female' I'd have figured this wasn't worth my time already, made a good point that none of y'all could have figured out what to say about that quick, and made an exit from this argument on my own terms-- but I'm continuing the losing fight, willingly, for nostalgia purposes at this point.
It's like I've become a masochist for the emotional pain as a male, and as a female I'm more satisfied being able to dish it out.
Ergo, it's not so much that I'm not a girl, as it is that I'm not very good at being a girl.


My parents raised me strictly male, and even in my childhood I didn't gender-identify with 'boy' or 'girl', and remember having said that at least a couple different times before I was a teenager.
Now that I'm older and could have developed a set gender identity, I feel like it was offset by the 'conditioning', especially considering that when I had enough time to escape my parents-- or anyone who would see what I look like physically-- I automatically started to feel more female and was able to play a woman on the internet, quite succesfully I might add, for over 2 years... until I resolved to stop lying to the friends I had made in that time... and then later on 'transgender' became a 'thing' and I realized I should have just been openly trans-girl all along (instead of compulsively playing a woman because I was more comfortable that way).


I'd like to see you pull your gender-identification trick on a novel (code for 'long posts'?) written by someone who were born physically intersexed.
I have one friend who had that condition, identifies as female, and I'd wager you'd probably strike her as 'a guy who wants to be a girl' as well until she showed you the photos she usually uses on Skype.


Which brings me to the real burning question, Mad, is it that you don't think anyone is transgendered?
Or is it that you just don't think I'm trans-gendered?


And, finally, nahuel
about the "psychologically stable people, educated and good people" bit:

The gun ban in USA probably will not solve anything, but personally I think guns it should only be sold to right people (psychologically stable people, educated and good citizens ).

..
God, no, there's enough mental health discrimination in this country/in the world as it is. No one should have the authority to determine who is and isn't "psychologically stable" because the reality is that that's highly subjective and there's no standard for who's 'crazy' and who's not other than everyday social standards and the way those with unpopular opinions and/or mentall ilness are treated unfairly for it. We shouldn't be trying to pretend anyone can be 'right' enough about what does and does not count as 'crazy' to make alterations to housing decisions etc., let alone make that decision with regards to gun purchase.
Besides, according to MadGypsy's (and others' around here) pro-gun arguments, maybe one of those 'psychologically unstable' people could be one of the concealed carry-ers that starts shooting possible assailants when an extremist Muslim 'starts shit around them', or when a mass shooter comes to town. If we're going to go along with the argument that 'someone carrying a weapon could stop a mass shooter/terrorist before they kill more people', why deny those with a mental health history record from being able to be part of that equation/situation? Most 'mass shooters' are completely sane (as in they don't have a record of persistent mental illness yet do have a tendency to become very violent when angry and/or have violence-condoning personal opinions).

[Baker]

I think Obama is a closet Muslim and has leaned on all law enforcement, from the FBI down, to back off Muslims. Just my theory...
and I think there's more to this story...

That isn't what is going on, even if you everything you said is true.

Globalism is what is going on.

Elites and multinational corporations want to break democracies.

Transferring real control to unelected bureaucrats that can be given orders (or replaced on a whim -- like the EU).

The way to break democracy is to divide the people into petty and ridiculous sub-groups and make them each others enemy.

It's called agitate and distract, and why our politics today is ridiculously petty.

[H1CC]

Baker don't you already have your own thread about Globalism?
Or are you just mad that they don't sell tinfoil hats in your size, you know with how much you let it go to your head, must not be one big enough for ya huh-- or maybe you can't get your zombie apocalypse survival kit because only megacorps sell them and you're trying desperately not to support those that would 'break down democracy'.


I've heard nothing about this until you started bringing it up in this and your The Apolitical Donald Trump thread.
It just comes off as another crazy conspiracy theory, in that same way that so many people claim that the Government is controlling the media.


There's a bias in the Media, one that is different in different and news/entertainment sources-- and it is important to get your news from more than one source.
Other than that I see no evidence to support your theory that global megacorporations are conspiring to break down Western Democracy for their own self-interests.

[Baker]

@HICC

Wanting to outsource jobs abroad, to bring in cheap workers via immigration isn't a secret. Nor is the interest in exporting the wealth in democracies or tax avoidance.

Have you not heard of the details of The Trans-Pacific Partnership?

You might want to do more posting about your different thoughts on your gender identity or current video games if you are otherwise uneducated and uninformed about current events.

[Dutch]

That I don't get uncomfortable admist the types of people who fit the 'Muslim stereotyping' doesn't mean I lack basic survival instincts (as Dutch said), it just means I'm not a fucking bigot.

Let's put this in terms applicable to where i live. There are LOTS of wolves and bears up here, but what most people don't know is that the most dangerous animal up here is the moose. Nothing scarier or more awnry than a cow moose with her calf.

One morning, there was a cow moose with her calf on my front porch. Moose aren't known for attacking at random all the time. But it does happen enough to make people nervous. The obvious solution to avoid being trampled to death is to stay the hell away from them.

Under your logic, I should have just walked outside all will-nilly and expected nothing bad at all to happen.

Imma pass. If that makes me bigoted towards moose, so be it. But in my terminology 'bigotted' has an entirely different meaning.