Populationgrowth

[Mindf!3ldzX]

I'm kickin rox in the corner wondering what happened.

[Baker]

I do one assholic post a year; no apologies

But I meant what I said.

[spooker]

*thread successfully derailed. +1 spooker

but really, baker, i've held multiple jobs in micro bio labs, so, guess again

yes pure science is quiet, backroom work, but if you want it to be silent and not guide the actions of men, it would seem kind of pointless. ozone depletion is no longer a problem precisely because there was a scare. fortunately, it was caused by a small range of chemicals that were relatively unimportant. not so with global warming. climate change already kills 300,000 people per year by one study http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30998907/ and costs billions

i just had to leave the place i was living because of heatwave and water shortage. fortunately i have the luxury of moving

...seems silly to stick your head in the sand, don't you think?

[StatiC]

just some random typing...

If you live in the USA and think it is overpopulated, do a coast-to-coast flight and look out the window. That green stuff that you see for 95% of the flight is called trees.

no fucking doubt, so true, there is More than enough space left...

now those funky Georgia Guidestones, state that World Population shall not exceed 500,000,000... haha i dunno, all this NWO shit, i aint buyin into it just yet.. soon we'll all have microchips in us and whatnot... lol fuck that ish' how would the world be with 2 billion ppL ? maybe slightly boring, and how would it be with, i dunno..say 4 example, 96 billion ppL... overwhelmingly annoying ? more fights for sure, more disagreements, ppL will take sides and go to some kind of war over whatever reason, and lots will die... im not sure exactly when humans became to be.. but it took quite a dam while to get to 6 billion, certain cultures dont really look into the prospect of having many offspring, and some really do love having 5 or 6 or 14 kids.. lotsa give and take.. im not sure what average life expectancy will be in 40 years or 200 years, but ill be too old and senile to give a hoot !

in about 30 years u can find me in the mountians on the low, full bearded Serpico with flow.

[rev]

in about thirty years you can find me on speaknow, waiting weeks on end for just SOMEONE to frag. mark it down.

[Baker]

but if you want it to be silent and not guide the actions of men, it would seem kind of pointless. ozone depletion is no longer a problem precisely because there was a scare. fortunately, it was caused by a small range of chemicals that were relatively unimportant. not so with global warming. climate change already kills 300,000 people per year

I've said before that I thought the best thing about the "global warming" issue was that people were concerned all over again about pollution.

What I objected to is how anyone who questioned the data or the model got labelled a "Republican" or a climate change denier or other such idiocy.

Like you did to me a few posts ago.

My point is that real science is done with research, not name calling. Real science is done with skepticism.

But leadership IS an incredibly important thing and I agree that the ozone issue is a prime example of things getting handled properly. I hope (what if there is an additional cause or the CFC model was wrong or less likely due to natural causes). The CFC model for ozone depletion sounded very convincing.

On the other hand, the "global warming" model wasn't very convincing.

And some of the supposed side effects of global warming were borderline silly.

Case in point, how can melting ice raise the sea level? Does an ice cube in a glass melting change the amount of water in the glass? Doesn't warmer weather increase the amount of water vapor in the air? Wouldn't this water vapor have to come from somewhere?

In particular, I find the population scare absolutely absurd for a VERY good reason.

The people who are having way too many children are in poor countries with no education and creating a scare HERE solves this problem THERE exactly how?

I believe in evolution, for evolution to work the most capable people should have the most offspring. And these population scare dipshits think you are helping evolution by telling people in successful countries to have less children when they aren't having too many children to begin with(*).

Laughable.

But me and these population scare dipshits do agree on something

Both of us agree THEY shouldn't have children

(*) (the birthrate of American citizens is a non-growth rate of 1.9%. There is NO population growth in the USA except from immigration. Same goes for Europe. And Russia. And Japan. And every other developed country too.)

[StatiC]

dam salmon !

Case in point, how can melting ice raise the sea level? Does an ice cube in a glass melting change the amount of water in the glass? Doesn't warmer weather increase the amount of water vapor in the air? Wouldn't this water vapor have to come from somewhere?

water vapor returns to us in the form of rain, but theres no telling where it will land when it does come back down..

but, good point B'.
"and, if u take every living animal out of the sea, wouldnt the oceans water level decrease?"
quote from - Canibus - "niggganometry"

Japans whale hunts, salmon fishing, crabbing and so on...

oops, hehe, had to edit this post after i posted it, u not allowed to write the N word.. just for posts sake.. i dont thro the word around =) not like i can ... or want to..

[JPL]

Did anybody watched "Home" last thursday ? It was projected simultaneously in 125 countries. this is a movie about Earth and the Humans, that has been done by Yann Arthus-Bertrand.
good movie that summarizes what we are discussing here. Alos, you can find it for free on the internet (here is the complete movie I think [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU]YouTube - HOME (English with subtitles)[/ame] )
I think this movie is clear: we, humans, are the cancer of Earth. and overpopulation comes from our ability to adapt us to any environment, regardless of the impact onto the nature... M. smith was right...

[Mindf!3ldzX]

I had to the answer to this question in 7th grade science.

Case in point, how can melting ice raise the sea level? Does an ice cube in a glass melting change the amount of water in the glass? Doesn't warmer weather increase the amount of water vapor in the air? Wouldn't this water vapor have to come from somewhere?

When the ice cube is completely solid,lacking no air bubbles,and is completely sub-merged with no room for any "above the surface" area does the water level remain consistant when the ice cube melts.

Take for example a 6" tall glass, and a ice cube thats 3" in diameter and 8"tall lengthy ice cube,and this cup is filled to the complete top,icecube pretruding the surface. The only displacement of water level occuring is all of the cube thats actually submerged, once fully melted the water level will spill over because the displacement. consider for example, this large ice berg



Would a bunch of those melting be neglible? probably... considering the fact that the majority of iceburgs are indeed submerged,and the amount above ground is very little when compared to whats below the surface of water.

[Baker]

I had to the answer to this question in 7th grade science.



When the ice cube is completely solid,lacking no air bubbles,and is completely sub-merged with no room for any "above the surface" area does the water level remain consistant when the ice cube melts.

Take for example a 6" tall glass, and a ice cube thats 3" in diameter and 8"tall lengthy ice cube,and this cup is filled to the complete top,icecube pretruding the surface. The only displacement of water level occuring is all of the cube thats actually submerged, once fully melted the water level will spill over because the displacement. consider for example, this large ice berg



Would a bunch of those melting be neglible? probably... considering the fact that the majority of iceburgs are indeed submerged,and the amount above ground is very little when compared to whats below the surface of water.

Good points Mindzy, but like you stated most of the ice is indeed below water level.

The above water level ice -- and ice is a little less dense than liquid water -- is very trivial compared to the mass of water in the oceans on the Earth. Maybe 1 or 2 inches, if that, if melted.

Places like New Orleans aren't in jeopardy because of rising sea levels, but erosion.

Erosion happens no matter what and is not a man-made problem.

Just ask the Netherlands!

My gripe with the panic people is that if you point out actual facts like the above, they won't listen and label you some sort of "Republican".

I think this movie is clear: we, humans, are the cancer of Earth. and overpopulation comes from our ability to adapt us to any environment, regardless of the impact onto the nature... M. smith was right...

Oh and JPL --- if population growth is such a problem then why does your country -- France -- pay women to have children due to a declining birth rate. France ranks #143 of 162 nations in birth rate.

Yes I am a killjoy and annoy people who like to panic with comforting actual scientific facts and ruin the fun panicky atmosphere.

Humans adapt!

[metchsteekle]

Humans adapt!

you, by any chance haven't seen the ever-so-terrible movie Waterworld where they kill people who adapt?

[terminus]

It's not God's job to intervene everytime an old lady gets mugged or a tsunami wipes out small societies. God is not a comic book super-hero. God is what God needs to be. A crutch for someone trying to quit drinking, or emotional-security for someone facing death. Someone who listens when someone else needs to pray. At the end of the day, we are ultimately responsible. We have free-will, to destroy or create. To accomplish or fail. God is not a baby-sitter. He is a creator, designer, author and what anyone else wants to believe he is. What he is not, is a savior. We should become smart enough one day that we don't need a savior. I think we're getting closer, but still far away.

Oh, I don't know, he seemed to intervene in lots of trivial matters at one time. Usually to kill someone with diarrhea. Now-a-days, he only seems to intervene to help a christian in a fender bender, or to win a Grammy--while 20,000 children starve to death every day. Seems he does have all sorts of priority issues.

[rev]

Oh, I don't know, he seemed to intervene in lots of trivial matters at one time. Usually to kill someone with diarrhea. Now-a-days, he only seems to intervene to help a christian in a fender bender, or to win a Grammy--while 20,000 children starve to death every day. Seems he does have all sorts of priority issues.

ha! guess i stand corrected.

[spooker]

wow that political name calling really got under your skin huh? why? was not entirely serious, but since it seems like you want to belabor the issue, and i'm not one to back down from an argument, i'll say that i didn't call you a republican for, as you say, voicing doubts over some of the effects of global warming (like you did in this post), but rather doubting whether it is caused by man. if you go back and read your post, i think you will realize this. it's a statistical fact that politicians in the Republican party and citizens who support the Republican party often doubt that climate change is caused by men. this is one of the biggest differences between Republicans and Democrats. Global warming is to Democrats as gun rights are to Republicans.

i'll also say that it was funny you attacked me for making an "ad hominem argument" in the same post in which you fired an ad hominem insult back at me, by telling me i'm ignorant of science (how would you know this?) and now calling me a "panic person". but, it didn't bother me as much as it seems to have bothered you. discussion is just as much a rhetorical exchange as a logical one. humans are not computers after all. i also found it laughable when you seemed to assert that "real science" can be accomplished on quake forums. comon man, this is philosophizing, not doing experiments

btw there's not many people with whom i'd go back and forth like this. most people don't care about these types of discussions. when i get drunk, i often end up talking philosophy to people who absolutely don't give a shit and just want me to shut up

Good points Mindzy, but like you stated most of the ice is indeed below water level.

The above water level ice -- and ice is a little less dense than liquid water -- is very trivial compared to the mass of water in the oceans on the Earth. Maybe 1 or 2 inches, if that, if melted.

Places like New Orleans aren't in jeopardy because of rising sea levels, but erosion.

Erosion happens no matter what and is not a man-made problem.

Just ask the Netherlands!

My gripe with the panic people is that if you point out actual facts like the above, they won't listen and label you some sort of "Republican".



Oh and JPL --- if population growth is such a problem then why does your country -- France -- pay women to have children due to a declining birth rate. France ranks #143 of 162 nations in birth rate.

Yes I am a killjoy and annoy people who like to panic with comforting actual scientific facts and ruin the fun panicky atmosphere.

Humans adapt!

[Baker]

wow that political name calling really got under your skin huh? why?

...

btw there's not many people with whom i'd go back and forth like this. most people don't care about these types of discussions. when i get drunk, i often end up talking philosophy to people who absolutely don't give a shit and just want me to shut up

I may have overreacted, I do that from time to time.

I care about the world. I have an honest felt belief that if everyone was honest and open minded that the world would solve all the problems very quickly.

New problems would take their place, but that's life.

Perhaps the reason that got under my skin is that I have a deep-felt dislike of our political system. Long story, but I don't think the system serves us well at all ... I think it creates two large group of nearly equally ignorant people with dearly held beliefs without foundation and both of proponents of a mix of fairly good and fairly horrific ideas.

And I think our education system sucks ...

/Gah ... if I start, I'll never stop.