Economic Crisis

[spooker]

wow mindz i thought we were having a discussion. seems that since you stopped smoking weed you can't talk to anyone else without being aggressive and insulting, even to sweethearts like peg. go back on the drugs, for all our sakes, plz. don't know where the negative energy came from, but if you want to turn intelligent discussions into flame wars, like this, i'll think you'll find ppl getting sick of you rather quickly. when did you become a troll? disagreeing with someone is quite different from insulting them. i don't think you understand that distinction

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Spooker I'm just calling you out on the facts. You made a point about "truth is there are many other places that can manufacture more efficiently than the united states" is complete nonsense and bullshit.
Are you saying that we as a country are inadequate to produce our own goods? What should we be doing with our time rather than manufacturing goods (providing jobs) and selling goods (making money) Spooker?

In my example of TRW outsourcing my job to Reynosa MEXICO , it should be been quite obvious my response was directed at your "They do it better" opinion you provided,which is complete lies.

The very same work I was preforming for $250-$300 per week in Atkins,VA is now being preformed in Reynosa Mexico for less than one third what it was costing TRW to pay us American's. Company's typically do not ship an entire manufacturing plant to another country because "They are going to preform the work better" , its so they can pay them less for the same work. I'm sorry if you didnt like the fact that your statement was so inaccurate that I not only noticed,but disproved it with personal experience.

[spooker]

opportunity cost

i didnt say we can't manufacture, but rather that it's inefficient for us to do so since with all our resources there are other, better things we can be doing. china making all our goods and polluting their whole country frees us up to do other things. im not really saying anything innovative, just expressing the viewpoint of the area i live in, which has reached a stage that is nearly entirely post-manufacturing

[foq]

What could we be doing that's better than manufacturing? Goods have to come from somewhere, and when we can't make our own goods (like now), other countries are free to cut the ambilical cord and hurt us pretty bad. Take a look at Japan... Japan was (and still pretty much is) an isolationist nation, and they're doing very well.

If we would manufacture our own goods to supply ourselves with and sell to other nations, we could be in our own little pocket of the world, seperate from the sickly collective economy.

[lunatichigh]

I am scratching my head at the S&P 500 continuing to go up. Is this a case of anything denominated in dollars going up because of a weak dollar?

Foquer, Japan imports all of their resources, just announced the highest unemployment rate in the post WWII era, has had two decades of a relatively stagnant economy, deflationary pressure, and an aging and falling population, according to economic statistics. That being said, I don't know what the actual well being is since that is difficult to quantify.

I don't know if i agree with losing the manufacturing base being such a terrible thing. I mean, as society advances, eventually the making things part is going to die down right? Services are valuable as well.

[foq]

How can manufacturing ever die? I just don't see it happening... ever.

[JPL]

How can manufacturing ever die? I just don't see it happening... ever.

Manufacturing will never die for sure, but it will just change of location... India, China, ... low cost / salary countries.

Look to what happened in France 4 years ago with Mittal. Mittal bought a french company that was doing special metal for industry. 6 months after they bought the company, they decided to move the complete activity to India for cost reductions... as well as all the patents...

I am experimenting the same in my company: wipro bought in 2006, they learnt a lot about bluettoth and wifi systems, they tried a lot to move the business in India, but we were quite reluctant to support them for that... that saved our ass for some time.... And now, it is time for us to prepare our suitcase and to leave the company, with a kick-ass as bonus...

I alos think that is indeed a matter of education, particularly of the market share that are still playing with the stock markets regardless of the past errors: I foresse the same "disaster" in the next 5 years if the politics do not regulate them....

I think this is also the companies' methods that have to be revisited and modified. They want to do money (it is obvious), but it does not have to be done at the expense of the employees. I am not communist enough to think that once you are employed, you cannot be fired, but I think some more respect could be given to the employees, the more when a company could support the activity during this bad period... or provide more support to their employees to help them finding a new job... and by the way this is a legal thing in france that forces companies that fire people to help them (by training as example) to find a new job... anyway..

Anyway, I will find a job sooner or later..; but times will be rude I think... being jobless is not feeding people.

[foq]

As far as education goes it would be cheaper to forego the institution and give everybody a laptop to do home schooling on. However... that puts A LOT of teachers/bus drivers/what have you out of buisness.

Education is a nescessary thorn in the economy's ass. It takes A LOT of resources to keep it going, but remove it and the hole left in the economy would bleed it to death.

I say the #1 grand solution is isolationism. Produce our own goods, where we get them for ourselves, first then sell to other countries for profit. Don't let anyone else do for us what we can do for ourselves. Since we are producing our OWN money and our OWN goods, defecit -SHOULD- grind to a halt (slowly, but it sholud) and then slowly move in the other direction...

[JPL]

I say the #1 grand solution is isolationism. Produce our own goods, where we get them for ourselves, first then sell to other countries for profit. Don't let anyone else do for us what we can do for ourselves. Since we are producing our OWN money and our OWN goods, defecit -SHOULD- grind to a halt (slowly, but it should) and then slowly move in the other direction...

Not sure isolationism is the good solution for all country. It is possible for USA as the country is huge, with plenty of resources... though... oil consumption is a problem in anyway.. And for small countries, that do not have enough resources (Japan is the right example), what can they do ? These countries will die for sure. Hence my opinion: the isolationism system is not the universal solution.
I rather think , and that it is more regulation of the system we would need. As spotted some posts ago, some people are playing/loosing with the money you have in bank. These guys should be controlled.... I can understand they are able to earn a lot of money, make bank increasing their revenue, but it cannot be done at the expense of common mortal being people...
This crisis is rude, and I'm afraid we will need a long time before neing able to return to a "normal" situation....

Wait and see...

[rudl]

I say the #1 grand solution is isolationism. Produce our own goods, where we get them for ourselves, first then sell to other countries for profit. Don't let anyone else do for us what we can do for ourselves. Since we are producing our OWN money and our OWN goods, defecit -SHOULD- grind to a halt (slowly, but it should) and then slowly move in the other direction...

Isolation as you describe is really unfair, it means fuck everyone else.
And apart from that it wouldn't work.
Most people here talk about food and manufacturing lol You are all farmers?
Do you want to work on the afield like centuries ago? or in a chinese manufactory? probably not.

Its a financial crisis, thats how it started, everyone should be aware that. That banks made very risky deals, and lost a lot of (your) money.

[Lerster]

this situation doesn't effect me, and if it does i'm unaware.

I just hope the Canadian dollar fluctuates back up a bit more... so i can exchange my cash to usa bux, for my trip to seattle.

:p

I go around 18th-20th of sept.

As for work... my work owns alot of shit... i work for Tyco... they are like... the umbrella corporation, and i'm sure they probably have a zombie, growing... grounds, somewhere.... somewhere... someplace... they are breeding monsters. *eg*

I don't mind, they are a great company to work for.

[Baker]

Isolation as you describe is really unfair, it means fuck everyone else.
And apart from that it wouldn't work.
Most people here talk about food and manufacturing lol You are all farmers?
Do you want to work on the afield like centuries ago? or in a chinese manufactory? probably not.

Its a financial crisis, thats how it started, everyone should be aware that. That banks made very risky deals, and lost a lot of (your) money.

If I recall, Germany has the #1 export/import ratio in the world.

And the USA has the fifth worst export/import ratio in the world.

While maybe not isolationism, the USA in particular MUST start exporting more in order to recover. Our country imports, imports, imports and that's fine until the credit is gone like it is now.

Over the past 50 years, as far as I can tell our governmental system was not influenced much by economic factors (i.e. our government in the USA isn't very business-friendly-- think of red tape, regulations, overhead costs that can bypassed and simplified in any other country in the world) and I bet that will eventually change because we need the jobs.

Oil: The USA imports I'm thinking 50% of our oil. They could fix that if they really wanted to just by very strong fuel efficiency laws. I think the average US vehicle gets 18 mpg, which is terrible.

The reason we haven't fixed it I bet is largely because our auto manufacturers like GM/Ford don't make those kind of cars and wanted to sell gas guzzler trucks and SUVs.

[lxndr]

Protectionism is what turned the 1929 crisis into the great depression, not what a I call a solution. Why manufacturing is made in Thailand, India or China, not only because there's more profitability, as profitability declines as you get more people into the business, but because us has consumers want to pay goods cheaper to increase our standard of living. There's not much people willing to pay twice the price because of the "made in USA", especially not those with few incomes. Furthermore, giving work to poor countries has increased their own standard of living, including incomes. Most of the time if not always, crisis result from a bubble, when lot of people start to think they've found their vein of gold, it's human, it can't be solved, but central banks can reduce the risk if they do their job correctly, which clearly wasn't the case here.

[JPL]

Hitler Try To Dismiss Employees: This is a small video remake that has been made by one of my colleague... It is "reflecting" what happened during the last week.... roughly

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INhjz8bG01E]YouTube - Hitler tries to dismiss employees[/ame]

Awesome job

PS: Any relation with my company, or with my top management is completely undesired .. though...

[lxndr]

JPL, do you have any idea on what were there motivations for closing the site ? I've read it could be for shutting down a competitor but it doesn't make sense if they were hiring people after the buyout.