ctf.quakeone.com - what should it be?

[Yellow No. 5]

Back in the day, ctf ruled quake multiplayer. And many of us are longing for some decent games of ctf. However, it's really difficult to get a ctf server going, as it requires more players than other mods.

We are setting up a new ctf server on ctf.quakeone.com. The problem is, everyone has different ideas of what constitutes a good ctf server. Here's my opinion on what we need. Please leave your thoughts and ideas on this...

I would like to think it's possible to strike a balance between what the "leet" 3wave purists think is ideal, and something a bit more newb friendly like hating. For ctf to develop into a more active community, we need a pub server for pickup games, meaning players come and go, joining the game as they please. Despite peoples complaints about trinicom, before it went down last year there was a lot more ctf being played, even crctf matches. This is because there was at least someplace for people to hang out and play, and newbs had a place to go with an easy learning curve to get into the game. If you wanted to start up a game on a better server, you could raid trinicom for players.

Here are our options
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mod
either crctf, modified to only run in pub mode, or the much simplified intertex pub mod. other choices will not be considered as they are old and out of date, and dont have the features and bug fixes these mods have.

maps
id only or id maps + 3wave/loc maps. only id would have the advantage of allowing basic out of the box quake to connect (yes, people do show up all the time on servers like this). however, a lot of the custom maps are very popular, and id only can get boring.

runes
runes should be on all the time, it's pub ctf, pub ctf = runes. the intertex pub mod does weaken them a bit to 1.5x instead of 2x, so they dont dominate (as much).

hook
a lot of purists hate offhand hook (+hook). it's understandable if someone spent 5 years developing leet impulse 22 hook skills they would be mad some newb can just use +hook. however, offhand hook has been around as long as ctf, and we can't afford to remove a feature 50% of players would not play without. and anyway, an experienced ctfer with impulse 22 hook and bunnyhopping, air strafing etc, can beat the shit out of a +hooker.

quad/pent
by default there's way to much quad on the id maps popular in ctf, like e4m3 and e4m8. i think with longer and random respawns it's ok. pent is retarded, but classic...mabye with random respawns.

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"This is gay, that setup would be gay, I hate everything, you're dumb, obviously setup should be like this.."

For it to work the server needs broad appeal. There is no point putting up a ctf server only 5 old skool purists will play, and there is no reason to put up another server like all the dead ones already up.

The biggest problem with trying to start up a ctf server is the old skool players are so good newbs or even casual ctf'ers get beaten silly, and then dont stick around. If old skoolers want ctf to be played again, they are gonna have to support a server with less of a learning curve, meaning features like +hook. But if we can start up a pub ctf server that is fun and has broad appeal, that will support other things, whether that's crctf matches, tournements, or whatever.

[Baker]

2 Words: Arena CTF

Run R00k's killer CTF with the Arena CTF maps as the default rotation with the traditional CTF maps available for vote.

Arena CTF maps are smaller and action packed CTF maps that do not require vast treks to score. They can be enjoyed by 4 to 6 players.

It gets crowded with more than 10, but has CTF had that problem lately?

If more than that show, they can warp it to the traditional 3Wave of their choice.

[Yellow No. 5]

[Baker]

I think the reason Clan Arena is successful is that it locks players in and out of a game.

The advantage of this is the committment. It is incredibly rude to leave in the middle of a game, but it is implied that it is perfectly acceptable to leave AFTER any game is over.

Does CRCTF have the ability to lock the players in a match via the "color up" / "ready up" system??

That would be very nice.

What I hate about playing CTF is players coming and going, the games taking too long, and not feeling free to leave.

If CTF had a time limit and a more reasonable fraglimit and some other mild improvements, I think I'd play it more.

The strength of CA is that the games don't last forever, but they are intense and action packed.

CTF mods seem geared towards the concept of "the server will be packed all day". That might be true again in the future, but right now CTF takes WAY too much of a time committment to play.

/just my thoughts

[Solecord]

As far as the server goes, a CRCTF server in pub mode would mostly likely be the best choice I suppose. However I am totally against the +hook option. +hook should simply alias impulse 22 in the mod. If you want to use the belly hook then go back to the old servers with impulse 97 and 98 or whatever... the current belly hook as seen on Runequake servers has no place in CTF. If a noobie can't get used to using the axe hook over belly hook then let them stay at Runequake. You can't keep "noobie-izing" every aspect of every mod. If a player learned to use a belly hook on Runequake, they can learn to use the axe hook.

You can't please everyone - I agree with that. But if you "noobify" every aspect of the server, it'll turn into another "noobie shmack" server.

I don't know what Arena CTF is but generally you aren't "required" to stay on a pub CTF server like at an arena game. Pub CTF is what it says - pub. If you want people to stay and finish a game, run CRCTF in match mode. It's basically just like CA in terms of keeping people out of a game. Besides, noobies aren't looking for a commitment. They just want to play during the time they can and leave as soon as they have to. That's why you don't see many noobies play CA.

As far as settings, on most CTF servers, frag limit is 150 because a capture = 10 frags. Combine that with all your normal frags and defending frags and the scores pile up quickly. You mess with things like that and maps will change rapidly and in some cases you will hardly get a chance to do much.

In CTF some things are a given. Screwing with those, you might as well create a new mod IMO.

[tut36_2]

more flags please!

[Baker]

A couple of things about the current successful servers:

4 months ago, CA was about dead. I knew about every CA player and there were maybe 7 of them, typically headed to Shmack (unwillingly) to either see if someone else who was (unwillingly) playing Runes wanted to CA.

A couple of things fixed CA and now it is going strong. Sometimes there are in excess of 20 players playing CA alone. I think part of it is that you can "just hang around" and not play. That is also true at Shmack.

But CTF is really screwed up. And it's going to keep being screwed up, here is why:

1. You must have at least 2 good CTF servers for there to ever be 1 good one because players must be able to pick where they play, not be "imposed" how to play.

2. The server can't switch stuff all the time. That is annoying.

3. It can't run any crappy maps -- not even 1.

Honestly, I like the setup of the xCTF a lot better than Intertex is/was setup. I even liked the Trinicom setup better.

I guess I like the xCTF setup best of all the servers is because none of the maps suck, the rules are set and I know if I go there it would be the same as the last time I went.

The first week or 2 of Intertex CTF nights were great. Then they started to play aroound with things -- which was dumb -- and then every time I showed up there it was different and no one was happy.

Why did people play around with the setup of Intertex when it was getting 12 players on every Thursday? I thought you only fix things that are broke?

/rant

The whole problem of this is that there is only 1 CTF server now. 2 if you count Clan Rum and 3 if you count xCTF.

Since there is only 1 server, the settings of the server will mean there are winners and losers, and alone will make it unsuccessful because players determine the success of things.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

theres nothing wrong with +Hook, if you expect there to be old schoolers purely playing (which isnt going to happen,get over it) , then you'll be playing with that small few amount of players that still exist (4-5 maybe,GL getting above 10 you'll need it)

if +hook auto switched to axe hook,and -hook autoswitched to last weapon it wouldnt be so bad,and it would be a lil more faithful to the old schooler's

Hating CTF Porkys Revenge was a extremely popular server that supported +hook , and it was OldSChool, so its kind of odd to dictate whats old school and what isnt,because I played CTF for a long time on hating,just cuz I didnt 3wave doesnt make me a old school CTF'r.

FOUR RUNES,UNGAYED,UN MODDED.that means,that when I pick up haste,I expect that bitch to shoot TWO TIMES AS FAST,not 1.5,not anyhing but 2x as fast.
same for STR,RES,and REGEN,it pisses me off how the 4 basic runes have been altered in some mod's (cough,dm+)

3wave maps should be off by default,only turned on by voting. There should be a mappack created for all the CTF server.

the "uber flag models" should be included with the mappack. players shouldnt be allowed to use color 0 13 , 0 4,3 4,or any of that nonsense shit.cross dressing attempts [ 13 4 , 4 13 ] should be an automatic kick,if a fgt wants to be gay,then let him get a dose of gay to fulfill his/her needs.

I agree with Baker to an extent, if you want to build a CTF Community,its gonna have to be compatible with the CURRENT SERVERS USING HOOK, name me one popular server right now that uses ONLY axe hook or morning star and ill stfu about it,but its not gonna happen,coz there arent any,but comprimising with the 3wave purist should indeed be a priority,but ruining the experience for newb CTF'rs wont make CTF popular again.

food for thought

[Canadian*Sniper]

I played a lot of Trini and 3wave when I got back into quake. Here are my opinions.

1. if you're going to allow people to use hook and weapons at the same time, make the hook trinicom slow.
   
2. If you're going to add runes, you should just leave them as they were when it all started. Also, you might want to add duplicates or more different runes if you're going to have lots of people in these games.
   
3. Maybe have an option for when you start, you get to pick the rune to start off with and keep it? There for players defending can pick the Defensive rune. etc.
   
4. Run the 3wave maps instead of the id1 maps. If you allow id1 maps then you're going to see the server play like 3-4 maps all the time.
   
5. Baker's idea to lock people into the match sounds like a great idea, but both have their disadvantages.

There's my 2cents.

[Solecord]

Sorry, 2 & 3 are dumb ideas. :/

5 > locking people is stupid on a pub server because most noobs won't stay that long.

[spectre]

Here's my two cents.

The problem right now with CTF is that newbies DONT EVEN KNOW HOW FUN 3WAVE WAS ONE TIME. Everyone even seems to think that 3Wave means NOT PUBLIC. Players now seem to have no idea what they're talking about and refuse to try 3Wave because it's different than what they know.

3Wave popularized CTF for a reason, so I say we basically replicate quake.erols.com.

- 3Wave models, maps, and hook.
- All original, default settings, including runes, hookspeed, friction, everything.
- Set the game-mode to public (not clanring).
- FULL rotation of maps, not just a select few 3Wave maps.
- Maxplayers at 16

We must have ALL the 3Wave maps. (well, maybe minus The Ruins of Neominonk, and Two Towers. However, Two Towers can be fun with enough people even though it's HUGE). Obviously we should also include the popular ID maps in the rotation. (e4m3, ogre citadel, etc)

To address the crowd that cries because "PEOPLE CANT FIGURE OUT HOW TO INSTALL 3WAVE" -- We have self installers for custom CA maps, we can do the same shit for CTF. CTF has been around longer than CA. If the players of CTF can't figure out by now how to install a mod then fuck them. We'll do our best to help them figure it out.

If I can experience an 8v8 on The Forgotten Mines one more time where everyone is spamming grenades to defend their base from the little nooks up in the cielings I'll probably have an orgasm. Same goes for Da Ancient Wargrounds and all the other 3Wave maps.

I want to see people riding around the floating platform spamming grenades or hiding with the flags in the wind tunnels on Strongbox again.
I want to see massive chases and base battles in McKinley Station again.
I want to see people falling into the wrong lava hole in Dysphoria trying to get the pent again.
I want to see someone hooked to the cieling in the Quad pit, camping his ass off, on Da Ancient Wargrounds again.
I want to see the flag carrier hooked to the cieling in the GL area in his base, spamming grenades to defend himself, while his team returns the flag on The Forgotten Mines again.
I want to play Disciple War Grounds again and hide in the wind tunnels when I have the flag.
I want to PLAY A Tale of Two Cities again. Period.
I want to camp the lava button in my enemies base in Capturephobopolis.
I want to have massive outdoor battles in Gloom Castles again.

I want to play REAL, FUN CTF again.

[omicron]

Ok I am an oldschool ctfer, I used to play in dv8 which was one of the better CTF 3wave clans. Here is my 2 cents.

In the interests of actually having a CTF server instead of having a dead CTF server I'd like for it to just be regular CTF with gold and silver keys as flags, and the 4 runes.

For the hook, make it an axe hook, but not the star.mdl one. Make it so that you click twice on axe and a hook shoots out of the axe. This is the best non-custom hook in the game.



Yes, I would LOVE a 3wave pub. Problem is the newbs suck at life. So I'd rather have some ctf instead of no ctf at all.

[Solecord]

If you make a 3wav server turned to public, the only difference between that and a normal pub server is the models and maps. So why not do what spectre said? That makes sense. We got tons of people installing the CA maps, custom DM maps @ dm.quakeone.com, they'll install the ctf mod with an ezinstaller.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

your going to basically be trying to build a new CTF community by stealin players from other mods (namely,CA and RQ), and RQ (shmack)is currently the-busiest server & mod in the netquake universe right now, bitch and complain about the server being anything BUT 3wave / axe hook, and I tip my hats to you over a waste of time. If you wanna get more technical and old school about things, what if everyone was like OMG Orange CTF was the best shit there ever was ,but it has no followers minus the small number of Enhusiasts who are still around today,more than likely you will not attract any new players,because everyone now days is used to Belly Hook.

Aim to please a community,one that does not even exist yet,and you'll attract more new players.

Aim to please the very,very small amount of 3wave enthusiasts in Q1,and pray people just deal with the learning curve and take the time to learn+play 3wave.

its an oxymoron,get a clue o_O

[Canadian*Sniper]

there's a full house at 3wave right now. I don't think the ctf community is in danger