SNS Defeats TU, 2 to 1

[scar3crow]

After watching the demos... I must say those were the most incoherent Quake matches Ive ever seen.

I dont know, theres something about the combination of spawning with weapons, not taking damage from your own explosions... It just makes it feel like a spam fest rather than a war between 2 clans. What would be interesting was if you spawned with just green armor and thus could take a rocket - but you had to be more careful and thus play as a clan, and the map could retain the armor entities, so it had something to focus on.

It just felt like chaos - and the scoring system seemed to make it lose all momentum regularly, there was no groove of the battle to get into.

It just seems counterintuitive to teamplay - which was part of the point of clans... Give me my old DeathRow videos "No quad for you" "Or for you ; )"
Lets see some clan play, rather than a bunch of random battles. There were multiple instances on dm3 the fight couldve gone smoothly if they coordinated even through the most basic of communications "you enter that way when i say go".

[Baker]

I imagine you watched the demos in DarkPlaces. ProQuake and Qrack have a lesser known feature which is one of the most awesome features of CAx, it utilizes something called pq_teamscores to put the scores in the HUD.

Everyone was using ProQuake except Monster (who was using DarkPlaces, I understand).

pq_teamscores screenshot:

After watching the demos... I must say those were the most incoherent Quake matches Ive ever seen.

I dont know, theres something about the combination of spawning with weapons, not taking damage from your own explosions... It just makes it feel like a spam fest rather than a war between 2 clans.

It looks that way to the untrained eye. CA is not as sophisticated as DM nor as team oriented (because map control isn't a factor), but it also makes it easier to play and the fast paced speed is addictive.

That being said, CA has a number of tactics involved that aren't visible when watching the demo.

This is why Phenom could outperform Monster on Sanity in the first game despite how everyone knows Monster was the biggest individual threat of anyone playing the game.

There were multiple instances on dm3 the fight couldve gone smoothly if they coordinated even through the most basic of communications "you enter that way when i say go".

That's what happens. In the case of SNS no one needed to say anything, I see Phenom or Bryant or Destroyer go one way, I went the other way to try to attack from both sides.

The nice thing about CA is that, unlike some other types of games, you don't have be overly sophisticated if you know how to play the game.

Case in point, a former Quake clan called POD moved to another game a couple of years ago and they wear headphones and use TeamSpeak when they play. I don't want to play a type of game that is so serious as to require that type of thing.

[scar3crow]

It looks that way to the untrained eye. CA is not as sophisticated as DM nor as team oriented (because map control isn't a factor), but it also makes it easier to play and the fast paced speed is addictive.

So its... group arena?

The thing is, I dont consider communication to be sophisticated, especially just a teammessage of "hold" or "go" which makes a huge difference. I thought the point of clan wars was to operate as a clan together, to show your strength as a whole unit in competition against another clan. I dont know, it seemed to be equivalent to hopping onto shmack:26002, without a wonky scoring system that breaks qc standards (yes, I lament a scoring system that can be done in a friendly progs.dat but instead makes calls to proprietary code which forces game logic into a client engine).

I dont consider the headphones to be very serious, its not very serious when I plug in the input jack for my headset and double click on Lardarse and we chat. And if anything, it would make Quake less frantic and more focused - granted I wouldnt need this with LordHavoc, that man has the most intuitive gameplay behavior ever (he used to be hardcore into CTF and just seems to KNOW what needs to be done).

I just like gameplay where people do act as a team, rather than just Not Shooting That Guy With the Same Pants. There might be some subtle teamplay going on there, but the demo definitely didnt show it.


...and I must be getting better, sometimes I tie with Monster.

[Baker]

The thing is, I dont consider communication to be sophisticated, especially just a teammessage of "hold" or "go" which makes a huge difference.

Ah, no one lives long enough in Clan Arena for that stuff :d :d

without a wonky scoring system that breaks qc standards (yes, I lament a scoring system that can be done in a friendly progs.dat but instead makes calls to proprietary code which forces game logic into a client engine).

Hehe, if DarkPlaces innovates something it's a "standard" but if ProQuake or QRack have a nifty feature, "it's proprietary code" ... I get it

HEhe

...and I must be getting better, sometimes I tie with Monster.

Demo please! Heheheh :d

[Monster]

I'm getting worse . Practice doesnt help. i used to be able to beat phenom easily, but i guess not anymore Soon everyone will be able to pwn me. *sigh*

some times i do really awesome , (like yesterday i had 18 frags) some i suck ass,sometimes i do ok. Its just a matter of luck. practiciing doesnt do shit.

[scar3crow]

My ability to have real time shadows drawn from a rocket exploding is a visual only, it doesnt affect what the player is aware of in the game - as opposed to the score. Its ridiculous that there is a progs.dat out there that uses an engine specific function to tally a score when it could be done with straight qc and thus would work in any engine. The point is that it doesnt need to be engine specific, yet it is. That is how it is proprietary.


I should record matches sometime, hell, once I got a mid air rocket kill on Tical. But actually Monster is the only person I play with regularly really. Im gonna pretend that Im getting better rather than Monster is getting worse.

[Fuzznut]

I'm getting worse . Practice doesnt help. i used to be able to beat phenom easily, but i guess not anymore Soon everyone will be able to pwn me. *sigh*

some times i do really awesome , (like yesterday i had 18 frags) some i suck ass,sometimes i do ok. Its just a matter of luck. practiciing doesnt do shit.

Monster, I think you misunderstood Bakers post.

He seemed to be implying CA functions more on the team principle than individuality. Which is why phenom did what he did because he's more use to working with a team.

I also think Baker gave you an incredible compliment.

And as for your practices on CA, we need to practice being a TEAM instead of individual players. We need to work on working together.

[Fuzznut]

Where in the hell are these young kids these days coming up with their fatalistic view of things?

[scar3crow]

fatalistic

clearly, Mortal Kombat

[�'Rouen_TU]

Where in the hell are these young kids these days coming up with their fatalistic view of things?

Hmm given that Monster is just turned 15, let's do the math.. 15 -6 yrs current administration = fatalistic view.

[Canadian*Sniper]

Baker, I didn't know about the team scores in the HUD feature :'( I recorded the demos using DP and only showed half the HUD (why show what weapons the play has if it's CA?!)

[Fuzznut]

I didn't know it was there either. Any other features of CA and GL pro you would like to share with us Baker?

[Baker]

I can't think of anything else that isn't obvious when playing on the server. CAx is pretty solid and the pq_teamscore support is something very enjoyable to me, prior to the addition of that, it was very difficult to keep track of team scores.

Just another great feature borrowed from Slot Zero's Rune Quake.

[Fuzznut]

What about this screenshot of da5id or whatever with Bryant?



you see the match won counter and to the right you see two other numbers.What were these for? As far as I could tell only 2 teams, Red and Blue were competing.

Can you give a recap Baker of how to observe different players during a match? How to cycle through them?

[Baker]

Yeah, during a match press "fire" and press jump to cycle thru the various players. Pressing fire toggles between chasecam and eyecam.

That's a good idea on how to make that more user-friendly. I had to ask that question too. Maybe when riding, it should centerprint that info and also who one is riding.