Quake Coders

[Lerster]

Quake coders, drop your engine projects and work on security checking of quake server mods textures and cfg files, that are non-standard commands, models etc.

Make em, sectional. OOP it, for every server mod out there, RA CA DM.

An get the net secured again.

I find it very unnerving, when today Baron used "fake ping" to ping -XXXXXXXXXXXX on the server.

I don't like that servers check for nothing, anymore.

It's totaly unnerving.

I literarly lost the nerve to play.

He wasn't in or nothing, and i'm not mad at him... i'm just mad that nobody is working on making the gameplay secure/fair.

All they care about these days is graphics.

X_x

Where's the fun, in graphics if everyones cheating. (For all anyone knows, everyone could very well be)

I don't know, i think i'm just going to play offline for now on and occasional RA.

Resigning from the famous CAx and CA+ (as i was told that's not exactly secure either) However, nobody even plays there anymore probably because 99% of them cheat, or are cheating regularly and are too lazy for the "workaround" that people claim exists to the qsecurity.dll or .so.

An to be frank, i've never cheated ever in my life.

An i can't believe that people would cheat.

I can understand from a coder aspect, it'd be like "geez I wonder if i can make this do this...."

But as for "FUN" .... it's not fun to be a cheater.

It's lazy, rude, and intolerable.

Whatever, thus ends my rant.

I bet nobody will even read this or consider this... anyways.

[Phenom]

I agree, Quake 1's integrity is seeming to slip again, we must be vigilant. I'm not a Quake Coder but I try and support the Quake 1 community as much as I can

Being able to connect to Rage with any client you prefer is simply AWESOME! but there are people out there who can't enjoy a game without cheating unfortunately :/

Keep up the good work Quake Coders! You are the thread that holds the integrity of the Quake community together!

[Deigo]

I agree cheating is retarded.
I know I'm a good Quake player. I also know I'm not close to the best, which gives me reason to believe that there are people out there that can rape me with pure skill, no cheats involved. With this insight, I can't say that I've met anyone who cheats. I may have and just not noticed, but I'm usually pretty good about stuff like that. If I get destroyed, it's usually from someone like Bosh, TV, a DOOM member, FFingers, or someone of that nature. Other people can beat me, but it's mainly those players who can make it seem like I'm afk.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

okay,lets re-instate CA+ and ProQuake CheatFree for all the security enhancements we have in Quake (a extremely outdated form of anti-cheat measures) , and then I can use JJ's wallhack feature and buttfuck everyone who comes around a corner! YEA!!!

[Lerster]

MindFeildz totally misinterrupted.

Clearly.

I meant, i want people to build a new cheatfree (ClOSED) source dll .so that is oop'd (OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMED) for, multi-server mod's such as if your connecting to an RA server the RA server inquires these files, and these files telll it exactly what to check, the textures, cfg files for (unallowed commands), and models, etc. Also i'm sure judging by the size of what each mod needs offically.

An i'm sure if some coders know how to test integrity of data verification. They can confirm if it's all text, or coding symbols such as curly braces. Being used, or otherwise.

An to be frank anyone trying to conceal / cheat is a fucking retard.

For these that can build such things, that do make walls disappear etc. Fine, i will grant it your 3l337, Elite, i won't deny that.

An your experimentation was fine... but you shared it, so you fucked everyone else up by sharing it... and i'm very upset about this.

If no coder that is smarter then these coders that build the hacks, then, how can one ever expect to play a even game ever online?

And also, why would anyone ever game online or support the gamming industry, ever?

Thanks, that is all.

[Lerster]

thank you, Phenom & Deigo, for your comments.

[mithril]

are you really having a problem with cheaters? I play ca/ra a lot and never notice anyone cheating. What server are you having the problem on?

[Mindf!3ldzX]

lol im just goofing lerster. the best format for Quake1 to go would be intergration into PunkBuster , but I dont see that happening.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

ps , its easier to build a hack to exploit quake rather than build a anti-cheat method that stops exploiting quake,simply because when you stop a cheat,they was one step ahead of you,once it stops working,they will find a new way,and its a never ending vicious cycle.

[scar3crow]

>> We talked a little about network security modules. What are your thoughts on closed source security modules that keep springing up?

Security modules seem wrong on so many levels...

They complicate open source development (particularly in the case of compiling
your own binaries).

They can always be bypassed, leading to an arms race of more and more
aggressive security modules and cheats; for example, launcher programs can
modify code in memory before running the game, drivers can be hacked to
implement wallhacks or aimbots, and if the server->client network protocol is
not heavily encrypted then network proxies can be written to implement radar
cheats that run on separate computers, etc. And if the client->server network
protocol is not heavily protected then aimbots can be implemented in proxies
also.

Most importantly security modules are user-hostile, what ever happened to games
being user-friendly?

I believe in securing the network protocol against exploits (for example not
sending players behind walls, which reduces network traffic substantially,
giving a better play experience) to prevent wallhack/radar cheats, and then
letting the user do anything they like with the content (replacement textures,
replacement models, there are people who replace these to make the game look
better, not to cheat).

Ultimately the real problem is hostile players who want an unfair advantage
over their opponents, or are just obnoxious punks, both are equally detrimental
to the online gaming experience, and this has nothing to do with security.

The only real way to combat these hostile players is by identifying them, and
preventing them from playing alongside the friendly players, this is more a
community problem than a technical problem.

http://www.linuxquake.org/interview_with_lordhavoc.html

[Canadian*Sniper]

What he said ^

[LordHavoc]

A quick note:
DarkPlaces prevents clients from claiming to have a negative ping, it doesn't kick them for this or anything, but it never lets the negative number escape to the scoreboard.

It could read their ping in a different way that is more accurate (preventing 'fake ping' cheats from accomplishing anything) but I actually don't consider this a serious problem as it does not harm anyone else's game, only gives them a false impression of a statistic.

It's only one of several ways they can be obnoxious, like I remember when clans had problems with imposters posing as their members and trying to get a clan in all sorts of trouble (usually this failed however as the imposter was unmasked and humiliated, and the clans ended up becoming better friends with eachother because of a common enemy).

[Lerster]

>> We talked a little about network security modules. What are your thoughts on closed source security modules that keep springing up?

Security modules seem wrong on so many levels...

They complicate open source development (particularly in the case of compiling
your own binaries).

They can always be bypassed, leading to an arms race of more and more
aggressive security modules and cheats; for example, launcher programs can
modify code in memory before running the game, drivers can be hacked to
implement wallhacks or aimbots, and if the server->client network protocol is
not heavily encrypted then network proxies can be written to implement radar
cheats that run on separate computers, etc. And if the client->server network
protocol is not heavily protected then aimbots can be implemented in proxies
also.

Most importantly security modules are user-hostile, what ever happened to games
being user-friendly?

I believe in securing the network protocol against exploits (for example not
sending players behind walls, which reduces network traffic substantially,
giving a better play experience) to prevent wallhack/radar cheats, and then
letting the user do anything they like with the content (replacement textures,
replacement models, there are people who replace these to make the game look
better, not to cheat).

Ultimately the real problem is hostile players who want an unfair advantage
over their opponents, or are just obnoxious punks, both are equally detrimental
to the online gaming experience, and this has nothing to do with security.

The only real way to combat these hostile players is by identifying them, and
preventing them from playing alongside the friendly players, this is more a
community problem than a technical problem.

http://www.linuxquake.org/interview_with_lordhavoc.html

What truly amuses me about that, is that... okay, if this coder is so good to do all that, and has... than he just created a bigger problem.

The concept, is to have more firepower then the other. A fear tactic, meaning eventually nobody will be left that is smart enough, to take on the tedious task of building/compiling a source code that out weighs the new closed source codes... without a guideline / source code....

Lots of pests, will be avoided.

If anyone fucks with finding ways around later, then surely they prove they are good programmers, but really. Do they even stick around to play? I highly doubt it, they probably give it to a noob, and say use this.

I am just guessing and speculating but i assume that is what they would do, i can't see many coders enjoying this game R00k and Hav0c okay....

But, really i don't hear much of coders in that sense. Oh and, i believe Baker apparently codes too.

If i forgot anyone this is a forum post of, quake coders.

I am not a quake coder... i am someone studying programming that is unrelated to quake, at the moment.

[Lerster]

Also, lord havoc is it was OPP coded a new closed source file for linux or windows or exported to both....

I am sure the program can take into light the crc's and file sizes of newer clients textures... it'd be a lot of code... a lot of work.... but in the end, provided they SETTLE on a fucking TEXTURE permamently ever!

An various commands that would be FIXED and LIMITED to certain servers / per client....

I don't see how it would be improbable....

But then, i'm an outsider.

I dabbled with some QuakeC once but at the time i knew, no actual C.... and by losing a days work i gave up and haven't tried again.

My fault for not backing shit up.

But anyways, i am learning C and i have learnt how to take standard input, and store it and manipulate it on a very basic level.

Hey! It's a start. ^^

[Lerster]

Right! nearly forgot....

Thanks Mithril, Scar3crow, M1ndf13ldzX, and Canadian Sniper.

Also thanks for your appearance Lord Havoc.... i'm sorry, that i am unfamiliar with your work, i only tried dark places once for some stupid experiment Canadian Sniper was trying, with someone else and maybe yourself... but i was late with the connecting....

So whatever.

Apparently you just got rid of the loading (dialogue) / screen in the id maps, to make it seem like real time transportation, to the next map.

Which was an interesting idea, but was it too fast?

I don't know as i didn't make it for the test out.