If you hate Clan Arena, explain why!

[Baker]

Not everyone likes Clan Arena, but why is this so?

If you don't like Clan Arena, explain why! Is this something that is inherently part of clan arena or something that can be changed.

Case in point, I don't view Clan Arena as much different than either rocket arena or games like Urban Terror (a Quake3 mod) where it is round based and you spawn with all weapons and armor.

If you don't like Clan Arena is it due to a bad experience on a server, due to the game play or because it is often played on a single map or some other reason?

[Phenom]

All the stinky assholes!

but every mod has a few.. CA is just infamous for them

[Canadian*Sniper]

I enjoy CA but rage was ruined by yeller. Good thing there are hundreds of other servers out there

[Stung]

Deathmatch is a more comprehensive evaluation of team skills on a map that has balanced allocation of powerups and weapons (DM3). It also has a more varied result; in ca, if you have a better aim, sound tactical movement, and a rudimentary semblance of team skills, the probability of you winning or finishing first is far too high, which is pretty boring. In DM, you can have all of that and a bag of chips and still lose; variables such as spawn locations, quality of teammates, and the innate modifications that powerups bring to the table (and controlling them), change the momentum and potential outcome of the game. The variability of DM makes it much more exciting / stimulating in my opinion.

For example, U4.Bib recently ran quad and kicked the shit out of the opposing red team, having 18 more frags than the second place player, but his team still lost by 30; this was because while he was in first place, the opposing team placed 2-5, and his teammates were 6-8 in total frags. Unlikely result, which in my opinion is much more fun than a consistent result.

I began playing CA as a means of finding consistency in terms of how my aim ranks. I find that based on the fact that me and spoon are 4-4 all time in 1-1, and generally cancel each other out (since I hunt his ass) in opposing teamgames, I've found my place among who I would consider the elite of the elite, and thus, CA serves a pretty mundane function for me. I stand by my assessment of the top 6 ca players, and believe I am of their equal, based on team skills and weapon efficiency / movement, and that as they say is that. The inconsistency of DM, which once irritated me to the point of not playing, is what makes it fun for me; as Forrest Gump said, "you never know what you're gonna get" in a 4-4 DM game.

Also, in terms of CTF, I believe the grappling hook sort of works to counter the variability of powerups and their changes on momentum because running the powerups and the spawns is much more plausible due to quicker movement; thus I don't really enjoy it too much. In terms of "rowdiness", I actually get more fired up during DM games (though the next day I forget about it completely) than CA games, because I'm much more into it.

I do believe adding to the variability could be a change in the way teams are picked to mimmick the way they setup fantasy drafts in like Madden and shit:::

3v3::
First pick: Captain One
Second and Third Picks: Captain Two
Final Pick: Captain One

4v4::
First pick: Captain One
Second and Third Picks: Captain two
Fourth and Fifth picks: Captain one
Final pick: Captain two.

Simple, really. Reversal of the order of picking every round of picks.

[Baker]

I do believe adding to the variability could be a change in the way teams are picked to mimmick the way they setup fantasy drafts in like Madden and shit:::

3v3::
First pick: Captain One
Second and Third Picks: Captain Two
Final Pick: Captain One

4v4::
First pick: Captain One
Second and Third Picks: Captain two
Fourth and Fifth picks: Captain one
Final pick: Captain two.

Yes, this keeps the teams more balanced.

[Net-Tyme]

Sorry... I can't RJ worth a shit.. Never could for some reason. And having a grapple for as long as I have I tend to keep hitting that damn button and losing shots only to be shot.

[Baker]

Sorry... I can't RJ worth a shit..

This so very obvious and valid point wasn't even something that crossed my mind Nice!

[The Villain]

Sorry, can't beat a good old FFA in my opinion.

[Zop]

Where's the 'No runes' option?

Just kidding.

[scar3crow]

Stung hit it pretty much spot on.

CA to me feels like CounterStrike, where the only reward for winning is a declared victory (as opposed to new toys), so it is CounterStrike but missing an element. The inventory loadout is RA basically, which takes out the variance as Stung observed.

CA to me is RA without it being a test of individual skills, it is CounterStrike without a reward system, and it is TDM with a silly inventory loadout and without the map playing a factor beyond collision detection.

Its bare bones Quake in a very non-fun way to me, I dont even enjoy watching demos of it, let alone playing it...

[Baker]

Stung hit it pretty much spot on.

CA to me feels like CounterStrike, where the only reward for winning is a declared victory (as opposed to new toys), so it is CounterStrike but missing an element. The inventory loadout is RA basically, which takes out the variance as Stung observed.

CA to me is RA without it being a test of individual skills, it is CounterStrike without a reward system, and it is TDM with a silly inventory loadout and without the map playing a factor beyond collision detection.

Its bare bones Quake in a very non-fun way to me, I dont even enjoy watching demos of it, let alone playing it...

I think the game play strength of CA is that the most fun fights in Quake are fights where both players have armor and good weapons (the opposite of spawn killing).

I think the game play weakness of CA is that, like Stung said, it plays the same every single time, unlike team deathmatch.

A little randomness some extra strategy built into the mod might make it more interesting, but then it would be a mod of CA and not true CA.

Some ideas to create a mod of CA might go like this:

1. Rounds where each player has 3 lives and spawns with a penalty of some sort (unable to fire for 10 seconds, or perhaps spawns with less armor or something) and players must be killed 3 times. You would also need to have less rounds (best of 5, instead of best of 9).

2. Possibly players spawn with Yellow armor and have the possibility to find red armor or spawn with less cells and rockets.

3. Spawn with less ammo with the ability to accumulate more ammo and slightly more health upon kills.

This would be a mod of CA, not actual CA and who knows if 1 or more of the above changes would work.

What I don't like about team deathmatch -- but like about FFA -- is that team deathmatch is very mechanical with very specific things you must constantly do, otherwise your team suffers -- a higher level of discipline, I guess.

FFA deathmatch has it's weaknesses too (Ring = silly/unfair and vulnerable to cheaters, Quad respawns @ 60 seconds distracts from the play, but no Quad is bad too) and I really feel that mods like Rune Quake succeeded in making FFA deathmatch a lot more interesting, although I feel Rune Quake in general suffers from a bipolar player base -- all players are either very good or very bad with few with skill levels in the middle, making it boring for the strong players and painful for the weakest players and ironically I think this solely due to the grappling hook allowing "hook whores" to evade any attack from a low skill player, which is not true at all without a grappling hook.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

I <3 Sting

[Stung]

<3 u QT

[Stung]

I think the game play strength of CA is that the most fun fights in Quake are fights where both players have armor and good weapons (the opposite of spawn killing).

I think the game play weakness of CA is that, like Stung said, it plays the same every single time, unlike team deathmatch.

A little randomness some extra strategy built into the mod might make it more interesting, but then it would be a mod of CA and not true CA.

Some ideas to create a mod of CA might go like this:

1. Rounds where each player has 3 lives and spawns with a penalty of some sort (unable to fire for 10 seconds, or perhaps spawns with less armor or something) and players must be killed 3 times. You would also need to have less rounds (best of 5, instead of best of 9).

2. Possibly players spawn with Yellow armor and have the possibility to find red armor or spawn with less cells and rockets.

3. Spawn with less ammo with the ability to accumulate more ammo and slightly more health upon kills.

This would be a mod of CA, not actual CA and who knows if 1 or more of the above changes would work.

What I don't like about team deathmatch -- but like about FFA -- is that team deathmatch is very mechanical with very specific things you must constantly do, otherwise your team suffers -- a higher level of discipline, I guess.

FFA deathmatch has it's weaknesses too (Ring = silly/unfair and vulnerable to cheaters, Quad respawns @ 60 seconds distracts from the play, but no Quad is bad too) and I really feel that mods like Rune Quake succeeded in making FFA deathmatch a lot more interesting, although I feel Rune Quake in general suffers from a bipolar player base -- all players are either very good or very bad with few with skill levels in the middle, making it boring for the strong players and painful for the weakest players and ironically I think this solely due to the grappling hook allowing "hook whores" to evade any attack from a low skill player, which is not true at all without a grappling hook.

Wow Baker, those are very innovative ideas. Possibly :: 3 spawns per round (less rounds obv), with armor decreasing per spawn, from 200 to 150 to 100? Just making more specific some of the ideas you suggested. I like them.

[Spazm]

Wow Baker, those are very innovative ideas. Possibly :: 3 spawns per round (less rounds obv), with armor decreasing per spawn, from 200 to 150 to 100? Just making more specific some of the ideas you suggested. I like them.

In terms of just the decreasing armor listed in the above suggestion by Stung (ignoring all the other points Baker made), CA wouldn't be better off. In fact, it would play into the hands of the stronger players even more. Assuming I read this right... a better player would have more health in a longer round. Thus they would have more time and resources to exploit their advantage, and likely demoralize weaker players on a larger scale. You would see a lot more 5-0, or 3-0's, or whatever it would be, in total rounds. This is similar to the law of large numbers, where a good player might randomly die from a bad player from a few lucky hits, but over a longer battle with more overall health, it becomes more probable that the good player would succeed over the bad player. If you prefer numbers: You roll a die three times, and get the number 2 twice. Will 2 come up 2/3rd's of the time over the long run? No. Roll the die a million times, and getting the #2 as the outcome will converge on its probability of being rolled, (1/6th of the time).

Also, there would be those who would be more aggressive throughout all three spawns in a round, and those who would become more defensive as their number of spawns decrease. Some of the aggressive players tend to whine when a player is playing defensively and is trying to outwit them (of course, some aren't and simply spam/camp), rather than constant mound shaft fights that the aggressive player prefers. So giving the defensive players a longer time to try to exploit their strategy would lead to even longer rounds, which would no doubt increase the level of quake drama. Prolonging the conflict of interests amongst a community full of infrangible egos will only correlate to more forum entries of 'STFU SPAMMER'.. 'NO YOU STFU NOOB'.