What is wrong with FFA DM and why it will change (but not today)

[Baker]

FFA DM is what made Quake, you could even argue it IS Quake.

But in recent times, FFA DM has not been popular.

A few reasons that FFA DM isn't popular:

1. Standard FFA DM sucks

Players can't vote-map.
You can get telefragged by a new spawn -- very uncool.
Quad respawns too quickly; every 60 seconds is way too fast and ruins the flow of the map.
No decent observer system.

2. Why CRMOD can't "do it"

The biggest flaws I've noticed about CRMOD:

1. Weapon switching is SLOOOOW.
2. Can set a map rotation (as far as I know); no one that wants to play FFA DM wants to play 1 map over and over.
3. Support for only 10 custom maps. Uh ... 10 custom maps is not enough.
4. No hook capability as an option; the grappling hook adds speed to the game play.

Why this will get fixed:

Rune Quake can do all of this. Including the support for 200+ custom maps.

Why this won't get fixed today:

1. Not enough players
2. No servers.
3. Not de-QCCX'd; DarkPlaces can run it as a server right now.
4. DarkPlaces server debugging (needs road testing)

Why this will get fixed in the future (probably):

1. SynQ
2. Rune Quake
3. DarkPlaces server (anti wall-hack capabilities; auto download of maps for supporting clients -- which is only DarkPlaces right now and maybe for the indefinite future, but this could change)

[Canadian*Sniper]

I've played around 20 LAN FFA and team DM games on quake this past 4 weeks. I want to add my input on some of this.

Players can't vote-map.

Agreed. Only people with rcon and the server can change the map.

You can get telefragged by a new spawn -- very uncool.

that's a part of quake I wouldn't want to take away If you don't like that, then how about making new player spawns spawn at a spawn point that's the furthest away from a player?

Quad respawns too quickly; every 60 seconds is way too fast and ruins the flow of the map.

To me, constant quad IS quake. There's always someone with the quad and it's your choice to hide or fight. But I can understand why someone could get mad about it in start and e4m3.

No decent observer system.

You mean NO observer system Ya true.

IMO, Quake DM doesn't suck when modless. I still find it just as enjoyable as it was 10ish years ago.

[Baker]

that's a part of quake I wouldn't want to take away

Well, there is nothing more uncool than have 200 armor and weapons and getting telefragged by a new spawn.

If you don't like that, then how about making new player spawns spawn at a spawn point that's the furthest away from a player?

In Rune Quake's vanilla DM mode, new spawns never telefrag anyone.

Which reminds me, another flaw with vanilla DM is the ability to spam spawn points, which is silly.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

It is the natural order of everything to evolve.
Sometimes people welcome to evolution, sometimes people disagree with it and dont hop on the "Lets get upgraded" band wagon.

-CA+ evolving (not literally) into CAx,it was hated by some,rejoiced by others.In the end CAx consumed everything CA+.
-A.RJS,RQ+,RQA,BDA,RQ evolution.Regaurdless of all the drama that caused all these variants of RQ mod,everyone chose to either stay where they was,or they moved on to the next big thing.
-DM evolving into ClanRing, its obvious what happened here. I dont even know of a DM FFA server thats currently online, I'd almost bet there isnt one at all,atleast not in the USA.


it goes on and on,and in the end, it will only be decided whether or not people will accept the changes based on how much of the community accepts it. Currently there is no playerbase for FFA DM (excluding the CR community,which is tiny by comparison to others).

SynQ will make a FFA DM project less of an up-hill battle , but it still wont be easy. People will play where there the action is, no one enjoy's connecting to an empty server and twiddles their thumbs in hopes of someone connecting and playing.
It would be nice if SynQ brought to the table a menu system that categorized Q1 mods/game types, like that which you can see in Q3,and maybe Q2 (I didnt play that horrid game hah).

Click "Connect to a Server" , then "Refresh Server List" , and a menu list of "Sort by Ping,GameType,Players" , and all that fancy riff raff like newer games have today.

[PapaSmurf]

Baker, I agree with a lot of what you said, but putting hook in FFA DM ceases to make it DM. DM = no hook.

What a new FFA DM mod needs:

1)Custom map support
2)Deathmatch mode 3 (i'm iffy on this, but I think in general, DMM3 is better for FFA)
3)Nextmap vote option maybe.
4)Only switch to certain maps based on the number of players connected to server. So somehow categorize maps on how many players it can support and then only these maps can get selected for the next level. (This can be good or bad, playing DM4 with a ton of people can be fun).
5)No hook-I just don't like hook in deathmatch
6)Smart spawning-try to limit spawn camping.

that's all for now.

[Baker]

I agree with all those and all of those are possible today.

The grappling hook makes certain maps much more playable like the E4Mx series. I think Lithium hook (you have to find one and there aren't many) is better than no hook or free hook, except on the DM maps where I think no hook is the proper way to play them.

In any event, multiple servers can have different configurations and players can decide what they want to play.

SynQ will make a FFA DM project less of an up-hill battle , but it still wont be easy.

Easy is boring; doing the difficult is far more rewarding.

If it isn't hard to do, it isn't worth doing.

[Lardarse]

Dmm3?

[Baker]

You know, deathmatch mode 3, where the weapons stay.

/Abbreviations can confuse even those with the strongest Quake Kung-Fu, like Lardarse

[Lardarse]

I knew what dmm means, I just don't know what each mode is...

[PapaSmurf]

DMM1 = weapons/ammo respawns in 30 seconds, armor/health respawns in 20

DMM2 = weapons stay, ammo/health/armor do not respawn

DMM3 = weapons stay, ammo respawns in 15 seconds, armor/health respawn in 20

[Canadian*Sniper]

DMM2 are silly old rules

[Lardarse]

and DMM4 is Mid-air, right?

[Baker]

DMM4 is a Quakeworld only thing where you spawn with a lot of health and all ammo/weapons and 3 seconds of pent. Kind of a practice mode.

[Zop]

Sniper, I'm afraid many won't get your reference...

[Canadian*Sniper]

Don't you think I know that? But the people who do understand the reference will be like "ooo I get it. eehehoooo"