Cax generating, assessing, choosing, and implementing alternatives

[Rampage]

I know we've had this thread before, but I think some changes need to be implemented.

I understand under admin controls, the admin can set the GL ammo to 15.
I think this rule should be perma-set for all servers either under admins discretion or during the next CAX update. This would greatly induce spam and help create a higher level playing field where people do not just throw grenades and get random kills (which I am also guilty of).

We had a discussion in another thread about eliminating players individual name tags when your cursor runs over their body. Personally I think this would eliminate cheesing, such as head hunting skilled players in groups, or during big fights. It would also create a stronger impression in a players mind to help create individuality. You would have no presumed bias prior to facing a certain player because the popularity of his "name" and thus after a nice shot, or a nice kill you will feel strongly that the individual you just faced is quite talented. This may sound a bit confusing, just put it in perspective.

Also, just like speaknow, Rage needs to get back to having 3 teams. I can't count how many times I've bumped into teammates, and the map is full of just one color creating havoc. The spam has caused countless unnecessary deaths from teammates pushing other teammates into enemy fire.

I say we add team damage to help SIGNIFICANTLY reduce spam, it may sound stupid to those who are spam friendly but for others it would create a high level of play where people are forced to reserve their shots and cease from hitting their own teammates because clearly reducing ammo did not help effect spam at all.

If a teammate is "killed" by another teammate (only after a certain amount of damage has been dealt) I suggest the player be penalized with a loss of a frag on the scoreboard or perhaps sitting out the entire next round (which I prefer since it would really deter newbies from firing at random) if any of you can think of another penalty please list it.

I would greatly appreciate any input, and lets start implementing these changes. I truly and strongly believe some of these changes will create a more amiable atmosphere to play in, with less complaining about spam, grenades, and other random bullshit.

[Canadian*Sniper]

About the spam part. I totally agree that team deathmatch type games should have friendly fire enabled (meaning I can hurt and kill my own teammates). Killing a teammate should result in you getting a penalty as well. Like death. That or hurting a teammate will hurt you as well.

But if you really want to reduce spam, you would have to enable self damage back in the game. Then players would have to be more careful. But then again, isn't CA all about teams with no self damage going at it? Should it be changed?

[Rampage]

yes thats the whole point of this thread.

[Rampage]

what I'm discussing is reducing this spam effect by CAUSING team damage that in turn penalizes that player in what ever way we decide for an updated CAx.

Whether it would be damage inflicted back immediately, sitting an entire round, or something else.

[R00k]

I understand under admin controls, the admin can set the GL ammo to 15.

GL and RL share the same ammo :/ Why not disabling the GL all together?

This would greatly {REDUCE} spam and help create a higher level playing field where people do not just throw grenades and get random kills (which I am also guilty of).

TRue, at times I will purposely toss a grenade at a doorway as i walk through so that it lands behind me and will explode on anyone who happens to be chasing me...

We had a discussion in another thread about eliminating players individual name tags when your cursor runs over their body.

The name only appears over opponents when you shoot them, and does not appear at all if there is a difference between your water level and their water level (ie 1 player in water 1 player out of water)..

No offense R, but dont u purposely use a colored shirt to display who u are in ctf/dm games? Intimidation factor can be effective

Also, just like speaknow, Rage needs to get back to having 3 teams. I can't count how many times I've bumped into teammates, and the map is full of just one color creating havoc. The spam has caused countless unnecessary deaths from teammates pushing other teammates into enemy fire.

While this is purely admin/player's preference, I really hate a 1 on 1 on 1 game... it's always going to be a clean-up win. Larger maps kinda help, in all aspects, whether 4 on 4 or 4 on 4 on 4...

I say we add team damage to help SIGNIFICANTLY reduce spam, it may sound stupid to those who are spam friendly but for others it would create a high level of play where people are forced to reserve their shots and cease from hitting their own teammates because clearly reducing ammo did not help effect spam at all.

While I like this idea (even for ctf), teamdamage (including self damage) would cripple the RJ mobility. Sure I could create no selfdamage from RJ's though if your teammate is close enough they'll get hurt.

On the spam subject, this is why there is a setting to deplete ammo...

If a teammate is "killed" by another teammate (only after a certain amount of damage has been dealt) I suggest the player be penalized with a loss of a frag on the scoreboard or perhaps sitting out the entire next round (which I prefer since it would really deter newbies from firing at random) if any of you can think of another penalty please list it.

Maybe team damage should reduce YOUR armor/health instead then? The person spamming and hurting their teammate would end up killing himself....

I would greatly appreciate any input, and lets start implementing these changes. I truly and strongly believe some of these changes will create a more amiable atmosphere to play in, with less complaining about spam, grenades, and other random bullshit.

I suggest INSTAGIB; zero splash damage, no spamming, 1 hit 1 kill, pure skill

[Canadian*Sniper]

Maybe team damage should reduce YOUR armor/health instead then? The person spamming and hurting their teammate would end up killing himself....

Whenever I think up features for a mod I first think about how one might exploit it and make the game not fun. If hurting a team mate would result in only you getting hurt then the original exploit of one killing teammates to be a fucktard is now replaced with one guy purposely getting in his teammate's way so they will do damage to themselves. It might be best that both people receive the same damage.

[Rampage]

A bit of a misunderstanding.
I was hoping there would be a way to just reduce GL ammo permenantly without effecting rocket ammo, I guess it can't be done.
If we disable the GL all together, it takes away some of the strategies used by GL. For example as you stated placing some grenades behind you as to counter chasing and helping pick off people when you're in 2v1 or 3v1 by placing them strategically. The same goes for water where you can aim it quite well to hit mermaids.

As far as placing the cursor over the name tag, I wasn't stating it was see through in water. I'm only talking about not knowing who you're facing so you can really appreciate the kill that person made and reduce team ups when you're a known player. By the way, since there is a grapple hook in CTF, I dont mind being teamed on, So I enjoy making myself distinct with different colored shirts, my preferred color is teal and white

I never stated you need 1 on 1 on 1 games, you can still keep 4 on 4 on 4, which is better than 6 v 6. The map becomes radical, everyone is spamming, you can rarely pull off a clean fight without being mobbed. It's easier and more fun if there are 3 teams during big games since you are able to see a lot more fighting and not bump into teammates.

Regarding the team damage issue, have it take off your armor health as you said, that would be great and really reduce spam. If you create no selfdamage from RJ that would be good, and it will work the same way where if you hurt your teammate it hurts your health/armor that way RJ whores can selectively RJ instead of go crazy all over the map to catch up to players who are not so adept at RJ'ing.


P.S Instagib blows!

[Canadian*Sniper]

I was hoping there would be a way to just reduce GL ammo permenantly without effecting rocket ammo, I guess it can't be done.

There's a huge debate on whether sg and ssg are allowed in CAx so one could change the grenade launcher so that it uses shells instead of rockets. You can have your RL with so much rocket ammo and GL with so much shell ammo. You could make it 5 shells per grenade as well if you wished.

[Phenom]

I would say the only way to effectively reduce people spamming in team games on a CA server would be to turn on FF(Friendly Fire) but keep self damage turned off, after all it is Clan Arena and not DM

In order to preserve the structure and foundation of CA I don't think weapons should be removed at all, a lot of people use grenades as part of their strategy.

I would propose that if FF is on and a team member kills you, you would get 3 simple options that pop up on the screen like this:

*Player2 has team killed you. What do you do?
1.Slap(Takes off 35%-45% of the TK'ers armor/health
2.Kill(kills'em)
3.Nothing

This will give the victim the choice to deal with the situation and hopefully admins won't have to babysit much to deal with TK'ers, as if a player TK's 3 times or more in a match they will be removed from the match, not kicked, or banned but just removed from the current match in play.

I honestly think the whole mentality of some admins these days of "I have to sit on my server to watch, babysit and make sure everyone plays nicely" can be easily solved by giving the actual players the ability to sway the server in the majorities favor, not just counting on the admin to make simple decisions.

The above idea isn't my original thought, it was taken from another game HLOD but it is effective in keeping TK'ers at bay if they know they are at risk also.

[Rampage]

That's not bad, but where do you draw the line?
If you have a personal grudge against me, and I accidentally killed you, you can just kill me instead of taking off my damage.

Also, if you had no health left from fighting opponents, and as your teammate I RJ'd off the wall and it splashed you, you're going to kill me if you dislike me, or feel angry about the situation and how you died, which wouldn't be fair to me.

I prefer the system where it leeches the exact same damage you did to your teammate, thats well deserved, you want to survive? don't hit teammates.

When we spoke of reducing strictly GL ammo it's just to reduce spam. We aren't talking about killing off the weapon, it's a very good and useful weapon but to an extent. When people start throwing grenades around and sitting in one spot while everyone else is fighting it really takes away from the fun of the game.

[Phenom]

That's not bad, but where do you draw the line?
If you have a personal grudge against me, and I accidentally killed you, you can just kill me instead of taking off my damage.

Also, if you had no health left from fighting opponents, and as your teammate I RJ'd off the wall and it splashed you, you're going to kill me if you dislike me, or feel angry about the situation and how you died, which wouldn't be fair to me.

I say we add team damage to help SIGNIFICANTLY reduce spam, it may sound stupid to those who are spam friendly but for others it would create a high level of play where people are forced to reserve their shots and cease from hitting their own teammates because clearly reducing ammo did not help effect spam at all.

Then be more careful around your team and think! Play smarter not harder!

[Rampage]

Another suggestion is to reduce rocket splash damage.
I feel it's way too high, I've died to numerous rockets that have flown far behind me and hit a wall or a pole, especially in water and still killed me.

It makes it a bit easier to counter mermaids by shooting at the ground and hitting them when the rocket is not exactly close.

then again, who am I to say how much fire power a rocket should have?
unless Quake Rocket Launchers were directly ordered from Al Qaeda, than I would understand minimal splash damage.

[Canadian*Sniper]

The major weakness in Quake compared to Doom is that the weapons are completely unbalanced. Weak* SSG and SNG makes you think that Quake was mainly built for singleplayer.

* weak as in a RL or LG would be a better choice in 99% of situations.

[Rampage]

Yes, but we're all fine with that, and on the contrary, SSG and SG are EXTREMELY accurate and effective.
SSG is GREAT splash damage in water and helps finish off kills.
SG is GREAT for hitting a low health opponent from across the map, for example Outside on DM3 or outdoor areas on edge.

[Rampage]

Phenom and I were just discussing some alternatives. Friendly Fire REALLY effects CA, and I think it has an extremely positive change.

NBA, NHL, NFL, and MLB all made changes to increase productiveness in their sport, now as far as Quake goes I think we have to do our part.

Take for example those 3v1 or 2v1 mobs.

yes we all want to help our teammates, but now you will have to improve your shaft skill in close quarters as to not splash teammates with your rockets.

This will also reduce teaming up and cause more individual 1on1s, which I'm sure most of us want any way.

one of the most common problems I see is players stressing how much they hate being teamed on especially after a great fight with another person, and than their teammate skillessly jumps in and cleans up. In DM, this is a necessity, but in CA, we have all grown weary of it, two completely different games.

We were also discussing how the damage should be dealt when you hit a teammate. I don't think the victim should be penalized for the same amount of damage as the rocket, if its possible in the coding can it be made that the teammate who got hit would only receive a smaller percentage of the damage, and the person who hit him receive the rest of the percentage?
Just wondering, although it would probably not be possible because you would have to tinker with the damage to opponents as well unless they are completely separate entities.