Cax generating, assessing, choosing, and implementing alternatives

[Canadian*Sniper]

Yes, but we're all fine with that, and on the contrary, SSG and SG are EXTREMELY accurate and effective.
SSG is GREAT splash damage in water and helps finish off kills.
SG is GREAT for hitting a low health opponent from across the map, for example Outside on DM3 or outdoor areas on edge.

I'm glad that there are at least 3 people in the quake community that understand this

[Rampage]

The major weakness in Quake compared to Doom is that the weapons are completely unbalanced. Weak* SSG and SNG makes you think that Quake was mainly built for singleplayer.

* weak as in a RL or LG would be a better choice in 99% of situations.

Apparently, You're not one of them.

[Canadian*Sniper]

Wrong. What I stated there was how I saw the general opinion of CA players. You always see a debate between phenom and yeller about how using such weapons destroy gameplay. Although I do see the SSG and SNG needing more improvement to fit more situations, I was always one to use SNG in hallways, SSG in water fights, and SG for sniping which later on gave me the idea for the alias Canadian*Sniper. I had my own zoom alias and everything but that's not the point and I don't want to derail this thread any further

edit: Not directed to Rampage but to anyone reading this not understanding the point is that the grenade launcher could use shells for ammo instead of rockets thus allowing the mod to limit how many grenades and rockets the players have.

[Rampage]

My sentiments exactly.

Lets keep this on track
MORE SUGGESTIONS PEOPLE!
AND LETS START CHOOSING ALTERNATIVES!

lets get some general agreements about what should be changed, so far I see friendly fire is the main component we all want to reduce spam.
Anyone else agree or disagree with this notion?
and have other input?

[Baker]

Phenom and I were just discussing some alternatives. Friendly Fire REALLY effects CA, and I think it has an extremely positive change.

Unless CAx were configured (if this is an option?) to a locked match-mode where no new players could join mid-game, friendly fire would be a disaster in CAx because some players would attempt to ruin games by shooting teammates.

[R00k]

When we spoke of reducing strictly GL ammo it's just to reduce spam. We aren't talking about killing off the weapon, it's a very good and useful weapon but to an extent. When people start throwing grenades around and sitting in one spot while everyone else is fighting it really takes away from the fun of the game.

Removing the gl would pretty much nix the pent to pent-window Rocket jump

There is a grenade spam mechanism in CAx, where as if u shoot more than 4 grenade in 3 seconds, you loose the grenade launcher. The delay between firing 1 grenade to the next is 0.6secs so 3 / 0.6 = 5, if you held down the button the 5th grenade would be your last.. but if you throttle the shots u can get a few more in.. 3.. 3... 3.. etc. Maybe increase the delay between shots for the genade launcher? Maybe, tweak the spam routine to count # of shots per minute?

[Rampage]

Unless CAx were configured (if this is an option?) to a locked match-mode where no new players could join mid-game, friendly fire would be a disaster in CAx because some players would attempt to ruin games by shooting teammates.

Thats why we are discussing these alternatives.

Solutions to this problem:

If a player kills another teammate more than three times, that player will be automatically booted for an alloted time or for one whole match.

Also by penalizing the TK'er for a certain amount of damage for every shot he takes he suffers the consequences of shooting his teammates.

We are trying to implement this to greatly reduce spam in the game and help with skilled shots.

No longer will a player be able to sit at window and spam the door until someone enters, get what I'm saying? now we'll be able to penetrate areas easier and attack campers.

[Rampage]

Removing the gl would pretty much nix the pent to pent-window Rocket jump

There is a grenade spam mechanism in CAx, where as if u shoot more than 4 grenade in 3 seconds, you loose the grenade launcher. The delay between firing 1 grenade to the next is 0.6secs so 3 / 0.6 = 5, if you held down the button the 5th grenade would be your last.. but if you throttle the shots u can get a few more in.. 3.. 3... 3.. etc. Maybe increase the delay between shots for the genade launcher? Maybe, tweak the spam routine to count # of shots per minute?

That's a great idea.
since we clearly can't re-code the game to permanently decrease GL ammo, let's increase the time between shots.

Countering the delay system right now is quite easy, I find I'm able to toss grenades quite frequently by just waiting a few seconds after I fire 3 shots.

tweaking the system to create a delay between grenade shots will help and ensure a person doesn't sit in one spot and throw grenades the whole time.

It would also create some spacing, for example if a player is sitting in lifts spamming down, if there is a delay between his shots it gives time for another player to RJ up and attack him before his next grenade.
that spacing can be crucial in terms of penetrating camper areas.

[R00k]

Unless CAx were configured (if this is an option?) to a locked match-mode where no new players could join mid-game, friendly fire would be a disaster in CAx because some players would attempt to ruin games by shooting teammates.

There is an admin option called SETCCLOCK that locks the match mode where no players can join a game in progress, though I have since altered this to allow new players to join an unballanced team ie 3 v 3 v 2.

Here's another unrelated suggestion, allow respawning during rally time to prevent having a lame spawn? Meaning, u spawn near nailbox-etc. and theres 3 opponents around you well u might get away or you might get raped.. typing "respawn" would allow you to get into postion before the round starts, and maybe limit this respawn command to 1 or 2 respawns per round?

[Rampage]

I think that's solid, you can end up closer to your team. Obviously this idea will be toned down.

I say limit it to 1 spawn per 1 round, within the 5 second time limit.

[R00k]

I think that's solid, you can end up closer to your team. Obviously this idea will be toned down.

I say limit it to 1 spawn per 1 round, within the 5 second time limit.

ya, there is 10 seconds between initially spawning in the arena until "FIGHT!" I think allowing this "respawn" beyond 3-2-1-fight could be exploited. "PREPARE TO FIGHT" is displayed at the 5-second mark. So, only "respawn" once before "prepare to fight" or before "3"... and let "prepare" be the signal?

[Rampage]

Yea, why not, it might raise some complaints but who cares.

How come you can't make it ONCE during the entire 5 second interval of the count down so it can't be abused?

[Rampage]

Ok so far, we have these 3 suggestions:

Friendly Fire = to help reduce spam, mobbing, help attack campers who are less likely to fire rockets at entry ways to avoid hitting teammates. FF will penalize the player for a certain percentage of his health/armor, for the same damage he dealt to his teammate. As to not be abused by people who like to ruin games, 3 team kills and you're kicked out for the duration of one match. (if there are any more ideas please reply).

Respawn = 1 Respawn will be allowed before the 5 second time limit at the beginning of the round expires. This will cause a player to relocate to a random point on the map as to avoid beginning of the round mobbing due to a bad spawn.

Grenade Launcher = Increasing the delay time between grenades fired to reduce grenade spam. This can be extremely helpful, it will require of the person firing to sit in one spot and wait longer to attempt and fire a second grenade, which gives more time for people to locate and kill the spammer. It also helps encourage people to penetrate and attack. Now a person will not be able to sit at SNG stairs waiting for an opponent to collapse onto his grenade shack. This will also reduce round times as we wont have to sit and watch a player spam his entire ammo into the entrances waiting for a mob to enter and finish him off so a new round can begin. (I'm sure we all hate watching this equally).

Please give your opinions about these three changes, suggest anymore changes or add variations to these ones. Any input would be greatly appreciated and rook can go ahead and implement these after he sees peoples opinions, we'll be able to test it out on speaknow.quakeone.com since it is running a very old version of CAX, give it a week trial and see how everyone feels about it.

[=peg=]

FF will penalize the player for a certain percentage of his health/armor, for the same damage he dealt to his teammate. As to not be abused by people who like to ruin games, 3 team kills and you're kicked out for the duration of one match. (if there are any more ideas please reply).

Say someone does this in the first round... he will then no longer take part in the rest of the match, resulting in unbalanced teams for 8 more rounds.. sounds a bit drastic to me..

that is: the team as a whole is penalized for the entire match by just one person.. also.. in theory this could go on until there is only one player left in a "team"

[Rampage]

That's the whole point, so people don't abuse killing their teammates, especially people who like to fuck Quake up.
right now if you log onto a CA server I guarantee many of the games would frustrate you due to the amount of spam.

It's extremely skilless, guys just go around corners firing rockets left and right so no one can get close to them, no one is actually aiming until it's close quarter combat.

We need a way to tone down spamming, and ensure players get better and play at a higher skill level by being more selective with where they fire.