Quake: The Only Question That Matters

[Lardarse]

Would you recommend Quake to a friend?

As a single player experience? Yes. The original levels offer levels which require a wide range of techniques, especially on higher difficulty levels. With maps and mods available on the internet, you can get even more of a challenge if you need it.

As a multi player experience? No. I only need to take one look at this community to never need to think twice abut that question again...

[Paradi$e]

the current mod setup on the default shmack server is not evolution, it is de-evolution.

Sure it is, that is only your opinion according to you and other most exclusive only CA-ers, typical. If anyone notices, they all just seem to hate RuneQuake. Hmm...

Bottom and final line: It is still evolution bub, whether you like it or not. Things were added, they became more complex = growth and therefore, is evolution of the original concept. It moved forward, accept it or be left out. If CA will decrease in popularity, there will be nothing left to play but RuneQuake and vice versa. As for me, I will go to any mod that is the most popular and has a healthy active player base and I will be thankful and enjoy it because, regardless, I am still playing Quake 1 12 years later after it came out.

[Paradi$e]

As a multi player experience? No. I only need to take one look at this community to never need to think twice abut that question again...

Do not let the Assholes get to you. In fact, you will deal with them in any online game, in fact, any online environment, in fact, even in real life! It keeps going and going and going... Do you see the pattern? You can not run away from it, your only option is to shut it out, just like any bad experience, ignore it and move on.

If you let them get to you, you will fulfill their desired objective to hamper you from playing and getting any enjoyment out of anything.

If you are playing Quake 1 and are that sensitive you can block out the chatter with con_notify 0. But this is not recommended, you must be exposed to this crap to develop a thick skin to it. For me, I leave it on, and laugh most the time, frag them off, and toss back an ingeniously sarcastic comment from time to time.

This produces a most desirable result for me, as the offender(s) get(s) even madder, starts talking more and more and makes a fool out of themself(ves). After ignoring them/him, they/he will most likely leave shortly. There you go! Mission accomplished. You did everything at once, enjoy your Quake game and own the offender at his own game and make him leave - something he wanted you to do, all at the same time. :d

[Baker]

As a multi player experience? No. I only need to take one look at this community to never need to think twice abut that question again...

Ok, someone has hit one of the issues! :d

However, I think you are only correct that this is a problem now. This was not a problem at all at Dredd last year when a grand experiment with that server was running.

This issue has to be addressed. Too many times newbies gets harassed for lack of skill or even actually kicked off a server for not understanding something. These geniuses that harass new players and call them names are some of the same idiots that complain the game is dead. Go figure!

Forunately, there is a way to easily repel these types of players from a server and it's voluntary on their part too But I'm not going to tell the secret. It's funny.

In the past 2 years, I've persuaded at least 50 friends to play Quake at least once. LAN games ftw.

You're on to something with this. For 2 or 3 different reasons.

In Sniper's example, he mentions *LAN*. Well, in LAN play you aren't going to have newbie harassment.

As a single player experience? Yes. The original levels offer levels which require a wide range of techniques, especially on higher difficulty levels. With maps and mods available on the internet, you can get even more of a challenge if you need it.

I think the basic single player experience that comes with Quake is "ok". I think the real great part of single player Quake are the custom maps.

For the most part, due to the complexity of setting up Quake for someone without assistance and to the even higher complexity of running custom maps and mods, it would be difficult for me to recommend Quake single player to someone I know. They would just get frustrated.

Case in point, about a year ago there were a couple of instances of someone new to Quake thinking mouse look was an add-on feature to the ProQuake Launcher.

Quake is not user friendly for using custom maps and mods.

[Spirit]

Quake has a great multiplayer community, it's just not this one but the QuakeWorld people. I don't mean to start a flame war or insult you, but you should open your eyes a bit more. :p

[Baker]

Quake has a great multiplayer community, it's just not this one but the QuakeWorld people. I don't mean to start a flame war or insult you, but you should open your eyes a bit more. :p

Quakeworld isn't the same as Quake to me.

The European Quakeworld community is awesome. If I lived in Europe, I might be tempted to play QW just on that fact alone.

There is no meaningful American Quakeworld community. Most of what there is Team Fortress, which is about as close to "Quake" as playing QRally or Slide in my book.

I find the type of bunny Quakeworld physics permit goofy. Even if I didn't, I find screenshots like the following offensive:



Whatever game that is in the screenshot, I have no interest in it whatsoever.

And the fact of the matter is, that is how Quakeworld is played.

And the above screenshot appeals to no one; but that's what you have to do to play it seriously. Why aren't screenshots of that 2 color game posted everywhere? No one would download it. And that's the terrible secret of Quakeworld. Basically, the game drifted to the point where what would once be considered cheating is the accepted norm and you have to turn it into a 2 color game to play it competitively.

NetQuake's physics and the raw gameplay are awesome. Quakeworld doesn't have that -- and worse -- Quakeworld is so heavily modded to me that it is very far removed from what made Quake great.

Quakeworld is about turding up your graphics as much as possible with solid color maps and players, messing around with computer-program like configs and the bunny. And it is centered in Europe.

If I don't like turded up graphics with solid color textures and solid color players, writing computer program configs and like Quake's old fashioned physics and gameplay and I don't live in Europe, what does that have to offer me?

I feel I have far more in common with the Quakeworld community than sometimes I feel I have with NQ. But no matter how much I like the QW guys, I don't like Quakeworld itself for the above reasons.

I hate to mention these things because I think the European Quakeworld community has achieved some great things, but I tried to switch to QW once in 2005 and I just didn't like it at all. I'm hardly alone. Most NQ players find Quakeworld awkward.

Quake has a great multiplayer community, it's just not this one but the QuakeWorld people. I don't mean to start a flame war or insult you, but you should open your eyes a bit more. :p

In summary, maybe your interests are not broad enough to see other perspectives. I don't like NQ over Quakeworld "just because".

[Paradi$e]

Ha! That pic is disgusting.

I optimize my Quake, but 2 colors, they must be crazy in the head to need that much tone down. For what, are they playing for their lives or a zillion dollars? ROFL.

I enjoy the graphics. At one point I was using picmip and mipmap to their lowest levels and WinQuake. Quake was looking like a box, but I took them out because I like to see the textures and with GL you can retain the classiness of the original game but with much nicer graphics. And it takes advantage of hardware acceleration (graphic card), which it actually runs faster then WinQuake, which uses only software mode.

That smiley face as portrait is priceless, I burst out laughing. Unbelievable!Good one Baker! (b)

[Baker]

The European Quakeworld community is great. They have a lot of ideas and they get things done and they work together. I think that is the ideal model of a community.

I don't have any interest in critiquing Quakeworld, except to explain why certain characteristics of Quakeworld don't appeal to most NQ players.

Spirit being someone who feels that FitzQuake and Enhanced GLQuake are the proper context of a single player experience (I agree) because they are authentic feeling, I find it rather hypocritcal that he would somehow believe that the same sentiment of wanting an authentic feeling Quake experience among NQ players can be casually dismissed.

[PapaSmurf]

Sure it is, that is only your opinion according to you and other most exclusive only CA-ers, typical. If anyone notices, they all just seem to hate RuneQuake. Hmm...

Bottom and final line: It is still evolution bub, whether you like it or not. Things were added, they became more complex = growth and therefore, is evolution of the original concept. It moved forward, accept it or be left out. If CA will decrease in popularity, there will be nothing left to play but RuneQuake and vice versa. As for me, I will go to any mod that is the most popular and has a healthy active player base and I will be thankful and enjoy it because, regardless, I am still playing Quake 1 12 years later after it came out.

umm...I don't like CA anymore than I like rune-quake. I did have an enjoyable experience with CA a few months back with the dredd server. I liked trying out the new maps; it was fun. At that time, however, I wanted to also play those new maps in a DM ffa setting (i still do, in fact).

Rune-quake, on the other hand, is one huge cluster f*ck. First of all, there's the hook, which I can understand is necessary when playing on some of the original ID1 episode maps. Without the hook, these maps become somewhat difficult to navigate; but, this shouldn't be solved with implementing a hook, it should be solved with better maps designed for FFA DM play. And, I'm sorry, but the number of runes is out of hand, and these alternate weapons are just...silly.

Look, there are some things about rune-quake I like, especially the robustness of the mod. I just think that some of the changes that were made were a little over-zealous, gas grenades and the sng alternate weapon bomb, in particular. I'm also not saying that vanilla quake is what should be played, I like the idea of adding new weapons, or modifying the SNG and SSG to make them a little more powerful, so it's not a RL/LG only game. And, alternate weapon types is obviously a think that can be good for the game, if done right. I think a better alternate weapon for the grenade launcher would be proximity mines, ala the hipnotic pack, or possibly even trip mines. I just think that current state of rune-quake on the shmack server is so bloated that it detracts from the game, and becomes more about spam and finding the right rune.

[Phenom]

umm...I don't like CA anymore than I like rune-quake. I did have an enjoyable experience with CA a few months back with the dredd server. I liked trying out the new maps; it was fun. At that time, however, I wanted to also play those new maps in a DM ffa setting (i still do, in fact).

Rune-quake, on the other hand, is one huge cluster f*ck. First of all, there's the hook, which I can understand is necessary when playing on some of the original ID1 episode maps. Without the hook, these maps become somewhat difficult to navigate; but, this shouldn't be solved with implementing a hook, it should be solved with better maps designed for FFA DM play. And, I'm sorry, but the number of runes is out of hand, and these alternate weapons are just...silly.

Look, there are some things about rune-quake I like, especially the robustness of the mod. I just think that some of the changes that were made were a little over-zealous, gas grenades and the sng alternate weapon bomb, in particular. I'm also not saying that vanilla quake is what should be played, I like the idea of adding new weapons, or modifying the SNG and SSG to make them a little more powerful, so it's not a RL/LG only game. And, alternate weapon types is obviously a think that can be good for the game, if done right. I think a better alternate weapon for the grenade launcher would be proximity mines, ala the hipnotic pack, or possibly even trip mines. I just think that current state of rune-quake on the shmack server is so bloated that it detracts from the game, and becomes more about spam and finding the right rune.

I would have to agree with PapaSmurf, I play RuneQuake about 1-5 times a month and there are a few key things that ultimately make me loose intrest quickly.

IHOC was, to me, a well balanced rune mod, there were a total of 4-5 runes and a hook. Not 10+ runes and a hook that can kill you within seconds with no way of dodging it once you're hit. Coming from a DM,IHOC,CA background I can honetly say I don't mind navigating around a level without hook or some kind of rune that lets me teleport, manually running a map gives me that much better knowledge of my abilities on a map in almost all situations.

In the end it comes down to what mod you play, and thats a sad way to look at another person in the Quake community. Theres to much of a divider between players who don't want to get out of their comfort-zone long enough to learn that Quake is a lot more then just 2 mods (CA RQ) battling it out for the last of the players. I join RQ not because I own at it but I enjoy diversity, I jump from speaknow, bomber, dredd, rage for the different types of play, I don't refuse someone's invitation to play on a specific server. Like I said before, I don't enjoy RQ nearly as much as DM,CA or even CTF, but I give it chances to win me as a constant player, but being killed by someone who HAS to use a power-up irritates me to the point where I decide to play vs a server with truly skilled players, which CA has many of.

I see RQ in the server browser and sometimes someone will be leading by a large margin, thats either 2 things, someone figured out how to properly exploit the runes in their favor or that player doesn't need runes to be truely a great player. If its the later I would hope that person expands their skill beyond only playing RQ.

But I just can't take RQ seriously, no matter how much I try. The instant kill and radiation areas ontop of personal shamblers and all the wacky runes makes it feel almost kiddish to me.

Having said that I would rather refer someone new to the Clan Arena/DM servers before a RQ server even if newbies have an easier time getting a frag on RQ because killing someone with your standard rocket launcher is much more gratifying to me then setting a death trap and hoping someone walks into it or spamming a teleporter exit with zombies or dethtraps.

[Paradi$e]

All that craziness of RuneQuake ultimately means more complexity which you must control. If you are new at it, of course you die a lot.

This mod was made with newbies in mind for them to get in a few frags and have some fun with it. But it can also be enjoyed by elite players who really know how to handle a tough rune fight. In any scenario it is fun and offers challenge at all times. You are on your toes as even a noobie is dangerous with the "right" rune.

Complaining about dying in a mod it is a really noobish approach to dissmissing it. RQ is very thought out, ballanced out and ironed out. If you spend enough time with it, you will come to that realization.

The exploiting of the runes, I find that the most hilarious comment. You exploit everything to win, correct? I exploit the technique of shooting at my opponents feet to get most damage, etc..

It is not exploiting, it is using your brain. The only difference is that, since RQ is very complex, you are using your brain much more then elsewhere. Why? Because you will die more often than in other mods based on the examples cited above.

If being killed by a noob bothers you then you really don't belong in playing any online game whatsoever. In any game you might get nailed by a noob, fact of life. LOL. Get over it. Might happen more in one place then the other, but it still happens.

As of addressing the final point. There is no mod that is best. They are all different. My opinion is that CA is just plain, I mean you have no runes, no hook and no powerups. Pretty elementary, right? Then why all this argument? RuneQuake has A LOT more stuff added into it, therefore it evolved from being just plain vanilla Quake that CA seems to resemble much more of then RQ does. That was all I said in the first place.

As for a newcomer to the game. They have to start with the basics, which is Single Player. Then moving to Multi Player. Perhaps starting with CA because it still stresses basic Quake skills and is not too complicated and ending with RuneQuake because of its complexity.

A very simple answer with a logical explanation. I hope this puts the final lid on things as I am not here to flame with anybody or prove that RuneQuake is superior in any way. I believed I said this before, but I am saying it again if you may have missed it: IT ALL COMES DOWN TO YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Thank you.

[foq]

RQ sucks because of maps like start and e1m7. gg

[PapaSmurf]

All that craziness of RuneQuake ultimately means more complexity which you must control. If you are new at it, of course you die a lot.

This mod was made with newbies in mind for them to get in a few frags and have some fun with it. But it can also be enjoyed by elite players who really know how to handle a tough rune fight. In any scenario it is fun and offers challenge at all times. You are on your toes as even a noobie is dangerous with the "right" rune.

Complaining about dying in a mod it is a really noobish approach to dissmissing it. RQ is very thought out, ballanced out and ironed out. If you spend enough time with it, you will come to that realization.

The exploiting of the runes, I find that the most hilarious comment. You exploit everything to win, correct? I exploit the technique of shooting at my opponents feet to get most damage, etc..

It is not exploiting, it is using your brain. The only difference is that, since RQ is very complex, you are using your brain much more then elsewhere. Why? Because you will die more often than in other mods based on the examples cited above.

If being killed by a noob bothers you then you really don't belong in playing any online game whatsoever. In any game you might get nailed by a noob, fact of life. LOL. Get over it. Might happen more in one place then the other, but it still happens.

As of addressing the final point. There is no mod that is best. They are all different. My opinion is that CA is just plain, I mean you have no runes, no hook and no powerups. Pretty elementary, right? Then why all this argument? RuneQuake has A LOT more stuff added into it, therefore it evolved from being just plain vanilla Quake that CA seems to resemble much more of then RQ does. That was all I said in the first place.

As for a newcomer to the game. They have to start with the basics, which is Single Player. Then moving to Multi Player. Perhaps starting with CA because it still stresses basic Quake skills and is not too complicated and ending with RuneQuake because of its complexity.

A very simple answer with a logical explanation. I hope this puts the final lid on things as I am not here to flame with anybody or prove that RuneQuake is superior in any way. I believed I said this before, but I am saying it again if you may have missed it: IT ALL COMES DOWN TO YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Thank you.

Why do you keep bringing up CA, I never said that's what I was comparing rune-quake to. In fact, I don't ever like CA, particularly. All i'm saying is that runequake is like those fighting games (SF2, tekken, etc.), where one character is super cheap and easy to win with. Or like World of Warcraft, when it first came out, everyone was a rogue, because it was so easy to kill almost anyone else with that class (they've since balanced out the rogue). Sure, a skilled player can overcome this, but it shouldn't be a trial to overcome the game's deficiencies, rather than the other player's skill. I've heard some say that rune-quake is very balanced, I just don't see it. What counters the blink rune and using those sticky rockets, and then blinking away?

I dunno, I like Quake because of the strategy and the fighting. Clan arena is pretty much no strategy. You say, because of all the crap they threw into rune-quake it's more strategic, I just don't see it that way, I find it to be less strategic with all that crap.

Look, I know you're getting all defensive because you love the rune-quake mod, and you're not any good at any other mod. I guess that's fine, "it all comes down to your personal preference."

[Canadian*Sniper]

Super Smash Brothers Melee tournaments have items disabled because it doesn't determine someone's skill when a very cheap ass item like the hammer appearing on your opponent's side. When money is riding on the match, it's a ball twister when you're KO'd by an AoE attack that takes up 3/4 of the screen. So it became official that tournaments would not use items because it was too random.

I bring this up to compare quake with runequake. Just think of the runes as items that create randomness. There have always been arguments that there is skill in mastering the randomness but it has also always been overruled. It's not Poker random, it's just random. Rock Paper Scissors. I used GOD. God beats paper!!!

I have to agree that the blink rune makes a 1v1 an instant win or a boring match.

[spooker]

the same tools are available to all. having runes expands the concept of "skill" to include controlling your rune ability and other peoples'. it is just like ctf, where there are different sources of power--in ctf, it is quad, pent, rl, lg, and flags; to win you have to control those. In RQ, it is runes. Now, why people often say there is less "skill" involved in RQ is that the importance of aim is diminished, but that does not mean there is less skill, just that the skill lies elsewhere. If you have good aim, you will likely kick ass; if you have good aim AND skill managing runes, you'll definitely kick ass.

All of what i've said does not hold true if, as often happens on shmack, the map is either start or e1m7 and there are more than 4 people on. More than anything, shmackers seem to love 15 people on start, which i absolutely can't stand. thats when i leave