CTF Weaponstay

[Rampage]

last night we played a few 3wave 3v3 - 4v4 games at HDZ, with a 20 second weapon respawn and weapon stay.

Both are great additions to CTF, and unlike omi's arguments, weapon stay made sure no one jacked up on ammo and weapons.

When one had an RL you couldn't grab another RL unless you went and grabbed ammo, but if a player had no weapon, the weapon disappeared for 20 seconds (shorter respawn time). There was no weapon control, and the games were very close from beginning to end. When shao's team took a 3 cap lead and controlled the entire map we made a comeback and won the game due to grabbing weapons at crucial points in the game and turning the tide. The same situation occurred in the Egyptian pig factory, the opposing team took a 2 cap lead and we made a comeback instantly. There were still some respawn kills, but every player had equal chance at grabbing weapons and we all had to grab ammo to supplement those weapons.

I hope this addition in CTF stays, we'll definitely experience closer and more exciting games. rook, you should also look into what I was saying about adding some sort of noise to help track flags, there should be a drawback to holding the flag and not just hiding it away and wasting time until the flag is returned; this would help offset both over capping, or under capping.

[omix2]

20 sec respawn + weaponstay was not the agreement, it was 20 second respawn without weaponstay. keep it at 30 if youre gonna use weapon stay, any less and its just ridiculous... free ammo every 2 seconds.

i think the issue is some of you think you're entitled to weapons from playing too much CA. that isn't CTF. its CTFCA.

enjoy.

[Rampage]

20 sec respawn + weaponstay was not the agreement, it was 20 second respawn without weaponstay. keep it at 30 if youre gonna use weapon stay, any less and its just ridiculous... free ammo every 2 seconds.

i think the issue is some of you think you're entitled to weapons from playing too much CA. that isn't CTF. its CTFCA.

enjoy.

No, they both worked well together hand in hand, since you can't jack up on ammo you run out of ammo fast.. so contrary to what you're saying you have to experience it first before you can discuss it..

It also made the game much closer, and exciting and it wasn't lopsided like almost every single CTF game

[R00k]

Just for clarification, if a player touches the weapon and doesnt have that weapon at all, the player can take the weapon then another will respawn in 20 seconds. If the player camps that spot he cannot retake another weapon(the player doesnt get any ammo from touching the weapon). If he drops the 1st weapon, then grabs the new, then tries to take the dropped weapon, again he cannot obtain a weapon that he already has. So no weapon manufacturing There was still the element of running to RL, and waiting for it to spawn, though at more times than not, the rl was sitting there waiting for me. Playing this ddm4 mode shifted the gameplay from standing around waiting for weapons while u hear flag runners just take/cap the flag, into a more battle intensive game. I think Ramp got 70+ kills on Pig and that map has no quad! It's not jacked like full weaponstay, but on large maps, with 5+ on each team it isnt weapon babysitting either.

Omix, you should been there and played, it really didnt skew the game too much. But on 3on3's playing "Cheat Complex" then ya, it might be too giving.. dunno we didnt try that map.

[Rampage]

Just for clarification, if a player touches the weapon and doesnt have that weapon at all, the player can take the weapon then another will respawn in 20 seconds. If the player camps that spot he cannot retake another weapon(the player doesnt get any ammo from touching the weapon). If he drops the 1st weapon, then grabs the new, then tries to take the dropped weapon, again he cannot obtain a weapon that he already has. So no weapon manufacturing There was still the element of running to RL, and waiting for it to spawn, though at more times than not, the rl was sitting there waiting for me. Playing this ddm4 mode shifted the gameplay from standing around waiting for weapons while u hear flag runners just take/cap the flag, into a more battle intensive game. I think Ramp got 70+ kills on Pig and that map has no quad! It's not jacked like full weaponstay, but on large maps, with 5+ on each team it isnt weapon babysitting either.

Omix, you should been there and played, it really didnt skew the game too much. But on 3on3's playing "Cheat Complex" then ya, it might be too giving.. dunno we didnt try that map.

Yea I love pig, great 2v2, 3v3 map... well designed.. easy to pick up..

There was another map which we used to play with GDI... it has a long grassy canyon in the middle separating two bases, and each base is a small fort.... another map has a water separation in the middle.. with one base having a squarish box infront of it.. and you have to warp to get into this box.. the box leads you straight into the base... its difficult to describe when you don't know the names .. these are both maps I would like to play next sunday..

[Yellow No. 5]

Getting some ctf going was actually my main goal when we started this site (thats why there is a ctf forum yet none for any other mod). Back in the day all I played was pub ctf. Two years ago we tried "ctf thursdays" with a pub ctf mod based on R00ks crctf, made more pub/newbie friendly. It worked ok for a while but died for a few reasons:

*too hard to keep the game balanced and competitive.
As has been mentioned, the better ctf'ers know all the perfect hook spots, and can bunnyhop+hook their way around the map at 10x the speed of even good players...controlling all weapons/quad/etc. Good competetion is required for everyone to have fun.
What we did was set weapon respawn to like, 8 seconds, make quad respawn random, and enable a fast bellyhook. The weapon system mentioned in this thread sounds good...I think weaponstay would be better though. Waiting for weapons while shotgunning the guy with rl + quad + red armor + your flag != fun.

*too many different preferences, no one willing to compromise to benefit the community.
some people want fast hook. some want slow hook. some want crctf match, some want pub pickup, some want runes, others hate runes, etc etc. A lot of the better players weren't willing to make considerations for the newbs...therefore the newbs didn't want to play. For ctf...or any mod to stay healthy, there has to be some good pub servers that are somewhat newb frienldy. These keep the game alive by bringing in new/returning players, giving newbs somewhere they can learn. This allows enough people to be around for the better players to organize more advanced matches of crctf.

*Too hard to keep teams even.
People would come and go, teams would get lopsided, or players would refuse to switch teams or where unable to. Ctf pub servers should work like CAx, people can easily join/change teams, and admins can move people around easily to keep the game fun and competitive.

*intertex was too unstable of a host, even people with good pings got a lot of spikes and pl.
we have more servers now...

[spooker]

i had a good time sunday night. i really like the addition of weaponstay, though when we were talking about it i think we were talking about having the weapon stay there even after u picked it up, like shmack style. i like how it is now though; i did get stomped on, but at least I had an rl every time so if i had been on my game i would've had a chance to come back. i don't like the refusal of some people to play ID maps--not many people are like this but they are always the most vocal and seem to influence things disproportionately to their numbers. i think we should play a mix of ID and ctf. anything else leads in the direction of CA's inability to get over DM3

btw y5, if you're interested in ctf, how come you've never shown up on sundays!? if you're more into pub mode than 3wave, we did do several hops back and forth from ctf.quakeone.com to hdz, and even some capture the scrag (though that server lags awful for me)

[Disco]

I disagree with this. Why do we need everyone to run around with a rl? I think its part of the strategy to keep weapons away from your opponent when you can. Im with Omi on this one, this sounds like CTF/CA combination mod.


I will not play ctf if its like this. I think you should try the 20 second respawn only and not make it weapon stay on top of that,

[R00k]

I understand the strategy of map control, but sometimes more than often teammates will take weapons at/near base even when they dont need em. This gamestyle isnt meant to be a standard, just an option when the server is full. Maybe just reducing respawn times would be enough...

[Rampage]

i had a good time sunday night. i really like the addition of weaponstay, though when we were talking about it i think we were talking about having the weapon stay there even after u picked it up, like shmack style. i like how it is now though; i did get stomped on, but at least I had an rl every time so if i had been on my game i would've had a chance to come back. i don't like the refusal of some people to play ID maps--not many people are like this but they are always the most vocal and seem to influence things disproportionately to their numbers. i think we should play a mix of ID and ctf. anything else leads in the direction of CA's inability to get over DM3

btw y5, if you're interested in ctf, how come you've never shown up on sundays!? if you're more into pub mode than 3wave, we did do several hops back and forth from ctf.quakeone.com to hdz, and even some capture the scrag (though that server lags awful for me)

The ones who don't play, are usually the first to criticize changes.. until they experience them, they are still being ignorant.. I wouldn't comment on something unless I had a chance to try it first hand

[spooker]

yes. you can criticize it after you've played it

[Lerster]

Just wanted to say... you all whine too much!

If it's not about ping, it's about server features, if its not about server features, it's about your isp being bad, if it's not that it's gameplay or the map, if it not that its another player that causes you to cry.....

Ugh... just thought you all should know, i'm sick of it!

Though, i suppose without all the whining and arguments about servers/maps/mods etc, nothing would ever change... so i guess it's good.

Even if it is annoying that you all whine, your heads off and not play it as it's served to you as... but whatever.

~Cheers.

[R00k]

Curious about quad spawn time set to 5 minutes instead of every 1 mintue??

[PapaSmurf]

5 minutes is too long, maybe 2 minutes for quad if you want to increase the spawn time.

[PapaSmurf]

I think another change that could be made to ctf is to put more of an emphasis on capturing the flag by having the score be based solely on number of captures rather than giving frag bonuses for capturing.