Unreal vs. Quake

[Lightning_Hunter]

A few of you are confusing Unreal with Unreal Tournament, but I can see why. They are both basically the same engine - only one is SP based, and one is Multiplayer based. Unreal 1 had very basic DM matches online, but no CTF or fancy game types that UT had. Unreal 1 was mostly SP. Unreal Tournament was mostly Multiplayer.

I have never played Unreal. What is the multiplayer portion of the game like? Is it as popular as Quake's? Is it as competitive as Quake's?

In my opinion, Unreal Tournament is one of the greatest multiplayer games out there, easily beating the later sequels of UT2k4, UT3, etc.. If you want the best of both worlds (SP and Multiplayer), purchase both Unreal Gold and Unreal Tournament (they are both really cheap), and install the Old Skool mod for Unreal Tournament. You can then put the Unreal Gold content in the UT folder, and uninstall Unreal Gold. Unreal Tournament then becomes a super platform for Single Player and Multiplayer. My Unreal Tournament folder is 15GB, half of which is Single Player content. There are so many great user made SP packs for the Unreal Tournament Old Skool mod that you would miss out on if you only owned Unreal 1.

Some examples of very large user made SP campaigns built for the UT Old Skool Mod:
7 Bullets
Operation Na Pali
Deja Vu
Xidia Gold

Some of those packs took years for the teams to build. I built one of the maps for the "Deja Vu" project. It got great reviews back when it was released (and still does sometimes).

Edit: Oh, and all the good custom maps that were created for Unreal 1 SP work in the Unreal Tournament old skool mod. So there really is no reason to have Unreal 1 installed if you also own Unreal Tournament.

[golden_boy]

The upcoming map page shows pretty much all the major projects currently being worked on in the way of SP for Unreal.

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nice idea

[Fragger]

Hmmm... Are there any Unreal hi-res skins anywhere?

[Baker]

I'd say Quake for MP, Unreal for SP.

Personally, I think if someone hasn't tried Once Upon Atrocity (link) or Insomnia (link), they can't see the glory of Quake single player.

Although I'm not trying to compare Quake and Unreal. Just saying I believe many custom Quake single player releases are more interesting than stock Quake, imho.

[Lightning_Hunter]

Although I'm not trying to compare Quake and Unreal. Just saying I believe many custom Quake single player releases are more interesting than stock Quake, imho.

Quake and Unreal both have different types of SP games, so it's hard to compare them. Quake has the best straight-forward action of any game. Whenever I feel like relaxing and killing some bad guys, Quake is the way to go. The carnage is just pure awesomeness. The only game that rivals the carnage of Quake is Doom. It is simplicity at its best. That being said, Unreal has more of a magical feel. It's a bit slower paced, but with more story and progressiveness. Unreal is more moody for the most part.

Like I said, I can't choose one game over the other. Both have great gameplay and replay value. I agree about usermade maps being better than the stock SP maps for the most part. Those SP packs I linked to above for Unreal are arguably more epic and much better looking than the original Unreal game. A few of them even match the length of the Unreal SP adventure. I think when most games are first made, the developers had to go extremely easy on the visuals, or else the game just wouldn't play well at the time on most computers. Once computers age and get better, people start making more visually impressive levels.

Hmmm... Are there any Unreal hi-res skins anywhere?

There actually aren't! Are you hinting at something?

There are high-res texture packs out there for Unreal, but no monster skins yet. Quake skins first though!

[dfsp_spirit]

Personally, I think if someone hasn't tried Once Upon Atrocity (link) or Insomnia (link), they can't see the glory of Quake single player.

Although I'm not trying to compare Quake and Unreal. Just saying I believe many custom Quake single player releases are more interesting than stock Quake, imho.

You're definitely right about that. I noticed only very recently that you can do great things in Quake SP with QuakeC and there's many custom maps out there that beat the stock maps easily and by far.

I haven't tried the ones you linked but I tried The Lost Chapters, Nehahra, Stark Monstrosity, The Living End and some more. I'll try the ones you linked and some more of these.

[Baker]

The Lost Chapters, Nehahra, Stark Monstrosity, The Living End and some more. I'll try the ones you linked and some more of these.

Those ones are good, but not "elite". In my opinion. I'm talking the gameplay and atmosphere and total gameplay value, not environment as clearly all of those that you mentioned have that.

Insomnia is outstanding. And Once Upon Atrocity is outstanding in the very same way. I can't reduce it to words easily, but Insomnia and Once Upon Atrocity are at times "hard to figure out" and the satisfaction you get finally completing them is great.

[golden_boy]

Quake has the best straight-forward action of any game.

I wanted to say "DOOM" there, but then I noticed that you said "DOOM".

I know what you mean, and while I'm not Quake's biggest fan, the simplicity and straightforwardness are two of its selling points, yes. I would't debate that.

In RMQ, we take the straightforwardness to extremes by making it a little more like DOOM, mainly by tweaking weapons. The most noticeable effect is that combat becomes even faster, and difficulty in combat is created more by monster placement, monster abilities (they got new tricks up their sleeve), and sheer numbers not unlike DOOM.

I'm not saying this is better, though. It's just that even RMQ, which is a pretty extreme mod in some ways, recognizes "straightforwardness" in combat as Quake's core strength. In other words, this is something we wouldn't change.

The main differences with DOOM are that it's faster mainly because of more powerful weapons, it has more interesting lower-tier monsters (imps and pinkies) which again makes combat both faster and more varied, and everything is more 2D. Also, melee combat is more interesting in DOOM (chainsaw, Berserk powerup).

Having to pump nine shells into an ogre is a bit tedious, considering Ogres are pretty bread-and-butter opponents. "A shell, an imp" has always been a strength of DOOM (and DOOM3, too).

I would admit that Quake's multiplayer is better than DOOM's though, while still being straightforward. My personal gripe with that would be weapon balance. I prefer QuakeLive.

[Hazza]

I actually hated Unreal- beyond a few (exceptionally credible) features, it was so boring and annoying I seriously don't understand what people liked about it. The graphics were only slightly better than Quake 2 (although you needed some very specific hardware to ever get it that far- otherwise it was actually a lot worse). The interface and gameplay were awful, and the weapons were ridiculously clumsy and weak.

The environments (well, the majority of them) were definitely visually and audiably spectacular- but the level design was poor and left me spending ages just walking around a canyon :/

Atmosphere from monsters and weapons- some had attitude (the mercs were fantastic)- the rest didn't quite have much personality.
Universe was fantastic, and music was great and suited it well.

So for me (back then and today) it's definitely Quake. Unreal definitely goes further in artistic immersive refinement- but gameplay was plain bad.
Now if we were talking about Half-Life I'd actually say it WOULD be better (although the overboard traps and jump puzzles penalize it to not much better)!

Agree Golden Boy- Quake's major failing was the lack of lower-tier monsters/too-durable lower-tier monsters (along with duplicate weapons and repetitive episodic environments);
If the ogres, for example, wielded rapid-fire grenade launchers (al a Q2 Gunner), it would perfectly justify their hitpoints. If I ever made a mod that would be the first thing I would do- along with wider gun variety, and environment variety (strangely, Q3A actually shows how this is done).

[spooker]

My point was this. Wikipedia lists 9 games in the unreal series:

Unreal (1998)
Return to Na Pali (1999)
Unreal Tournament (1999)
Unreal Tournament 2003 (2002)
Unreal Championship (2002)
Unreal II: The Awakening (2003)
Unreal Tournament 2004 (2004)
Unreal Championship 2: The Liandri Conflict (2005)
Unreal Tournament 3

With 9 different titles, it presents a confusing picture. It may be more boring, but I wish they had stuck with "Unreal, Unreal 2, Unreal 3"-type numbering system. So, which one has the most active multiplayer community? Is any of them free?

[golden_boy]

Heh, I didn't know half of these existed

I only played the UT2k4 demo, and found it pretty fun. I liked the weapons and the bot AI. It seems a lot like Q3, though.

Never played single player Unreal, simply because it's not easy to get. Or it is, I think there's some Unreal Anthology box for like 10 euros, but it's not plug-and-play on Linux. And I can't really afford to get lost in some game for another 2 weeks. Not now. I'm still trying to finish some other games, while actually getting work done.

Quake Live is amazing for Linux players. Plug and play. Good bots. CTF. Always a busy server with people of your skill.

I might play an Unreal demo, if one exists. I'll go looking for one right now

I did watch the speedrun, of course, as I did for many other games. It looked like another 90s shooter :-/

I'm a sucker for modern games with nice graphics, weapon upgrades, websites, and so forth...

[golden_boy]

I haven't even finished my Jaheira romance ffs!

[Radec]

It�s a tough old question, I know. Its almost as if God (if he exists that is) decided to create THE perfect game (Quake) then to be really nice, gave us another THE perfect game, Unreal.

Quake II was good and Unreal II was shit but that�s not important.

Its like choosing a Steak Meal between two Restaurants on Holiday (and as Baker said) what�s the point in choosing between the two? Both are overwhelmingly fantastic so just go to one restaurant on Monday and the other on Tuesday.

But whilst it might take some time think about it, Quake is a bloody great game and a lot of fun. This is made even greater when you remember it was born in the mid 90's and you can compare it to games of the 00's and still call it the better game. It is so old you could play it on DOS it�s that old! Quake has the class and the imagination, but Unreal improves upon that and creates something astonishing.

And so because neither game is a great deal better than the other, I�d expect and would be right in saying, everyone would go for Quake, which under no circumstance, do I disagree with that. Quake is the best game and Unreal is the best gamer� so this Thread is kind of pointless, because there is no wrong answer, just TWO very good answers.

HOWEVER� What If you go the future and compare Unreal Tournament with Quake III Arena. Q3A is again, a fantastic game and it out did UT99 in sales but UT99 is far superior without question. I�ve played both games extensively amounts of time and I would go for UT99.