Grenade/Rocket Spam Ideas?

[Baker]

This isn't for standard DM or CA, but I want to collect ideas on how to reduce the use of rocket/grenade spam in games.

Historically different ways have been tried:

1. Trinicom would remove your grenade launcher if you threw 3 grenades in a row.
2. Canadian Sniper/Monster in the "New DM" mod reduced ammo in ammo pickups.

#1 was kind of unfair in CTF because if you were unarmed except you got a grenade launcher, you really couldn't use it.

#1 also kinda of failed in a CA implement attempt because smart players would fire a grenade, then shoot RL, and then back to grenade.

#2 is inappropriate in most mods.

One thought: If a grenade or rocket explosion isn't within a radius of 100 from an opposing team player ... reduce shooter's rockets by an additional 2, 3 or even 4? [Then again, what if the shot almost hit a player but was a close miss and the rocket keeps going ...]

[Mr.Burns]

Hi Baker,

On some servers I've played they've used option 1 but increased the spam "grace period" which worked fairly well. e.g. increase the limit from 3 to 5 or 10 nades if fired in rapid succession. This still allows people with the GL to use it fairly but still help to disuade determined spammers.
I played on one test server a long time ago and noticed that spammers occassionally exploded. As anyone that has played me will tell you, I'm not a spammer but being the curious type I tried it one day whilst on the server on my own and if you sat in 1 place and spammed 10 nades in rapid succession you got a message saying "oh no your GL has jammed" and you promptly exploded and lost your pack. Crude but effective, and a little entertaining for non spammers to say the least .

One of the tricky bits here is the definition of spamming. So for example we could take the view that 8+nades fired in succession without a break of more than 3 seconds in between at least some of them would be spamming. Some people would suggest less, some more, some will say it shouldn't be restricted at all but if you are going to limit it then you have to put a stake in the ground (ideally through Pitbull's chest) at some point.

This could and probably should be at the descretion of the server owner, so some form of admin settings may be good idea so that they can tweak their server to their liking and define something along the lines gl_spamrate, gl_spamcost, gl_spamgrace and the gl_spamrecovery.

These are probably unworkable options but in the interests of making a contribution and trying to help, and completely off the top of my head...

• If spamming is detected then perhaps consider a "n nades then your GL needs to cool down" period of lets say 15-20 secs (gl_spamrecovery). Switching to another weapon after this has been implemented should not reset the clock. Or...
• perhaps maybe increase the cost of spamming nades either at the outset or after spam detection from 1 nade to 5 or more (gl_spamcost). Or...
• After a nade spam grace level (gl_spamgrace) set by the server op you could switch the GL to launch a different type of nade (eg cluster nades, see superweapon GL code in the DMPLUS source I sent you) which use 5,10 or more nades per shot, shoot more slowly and require your GL to recharge between each one. So for example if I spammed 10 nades in a row and continued to do so without a break of 15 secs my GL would then change mode but only fire its payload once every 15 secs at a cost of 10 nades. The GL would not return to normal until the gl_spamrecovery period had passed. It would discourage spamming but might inject a fresh weapon in to the game. No doubt purists will hate the idea

Once the method has been defined, and the params set by the server owner/admin then perhaps have a vote anti-glspam option for players who become troublesome to the majority, thus giving some control back to the player base.

Similarly you could have an anti camping option [vote anti-camp] that admins could enable to "discourage" players from sitting on a perch or small area (eg 3 yards) for a prolonged period of time and spamming away. Fortunately we have a very effective anti camper device we use at times on Flanders and Bigfoot that can clear out levels from annoying campers in seconds - we call it Polarite . The trouble is this measure clears out the maps of everything else too, people, health, weapons, walls, you name it. I know some of the more highly skilled players in Quake actually enjoy removing campers but imagine that - no more campers in Quake. I wonder how well that idea would be received. Oh well, food for thought I suppose.

@MH: Sorry, more potential options

/Just my humble contribution

Kind regards

Monty

[Baker]

No, that was very helpful.

I don't want to impede rocket jumping, unfortunate misses, real game play.

Maybe mark rockets and grenades that pass near an opposing player in the nextthink function and ones that explode and never passed near someone = spam.

I suppose that rocket jumping and grenade jumping could be detected by how close the explosion is to the attacking player and ignored.

[re: options ... I'm just against a client having lots of them. I'm not against a server having settings, servers require tuning and experimentation. All the server mods from CRMOD to CAx incrementally tweaked over years.]

[Mr.Burns]

Hi Baker,

I'm totally on board with the RJing, near misses etc as it's become an integral part of the game over the years. You only have to watch Peg or Pol to see how beneficial it can be.

Re: Marking ordinance, might work. A little bit of spam is not a bad thing as it can add some levity in to a game. Again watch Peg to see what I mean, his nades seem to follow you home on the bus, down the street, in to your home and up the stairs before exploding in your face while you're on the toilet. He is a nade master and it wouldn't be good to stifle that kind of skill. Even for just it's comedic value

[Also, please see pm when you have time]


Kind regards

Monty

[Rampage]

What rage did was make it so it costs 2 rockets instead of one for nades. It only helps a bit, as it is still possible to spam a tonne before you run out.

Instead of a delay message that comes up and says you can't use the weapon because you've been spamming, why not just create a natural time delay between each nade fired?

so I shoot 1 nade.. 2 seconds later.. I can fire another one.. the biggest problem with 'nade spamming' is that it fires in rapid succession so people just sit in one spot (I'm guilty of this my self) and firing them down to specific areas where many people are fighting.

Putting a natural feeling 2 second delay between shots would make it pretty tough to stand there and wait a few seconds between each shot, and it won't really do much since by that time either the people you're spamming are done fighting, or they can wait until you fire one shot and come into the room and attack you.

I much prefer this as an alternative to the whole 'your GL is deactivated because you fired too many shots at once'.. the problem with that fix being that it still allows the person to get off a bunch of shots.. btw.. I also learned how to trick that (as I'm sure many other people).. I can fire about 4-5 in rapid succession, I wait about half a sec to a sec and then I can do another 3-4.. it really doesn't discourage spamming.

Try the 2 second delay between grenade shots, I guarantee less people will rely on it.

[Spike]

or just reduce the max you can carry. 100 is crazy for a deathmatch game where you can die from a single rocket/nade (no armour/megahealth).

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Best way to stop spam is make Grenades COST more. 5 ammo = 1 nade , 25ammo = 5 nades.

but personally, spamming is like getting mad that a player plays a cautious / bait / waiting behind a wall type game / never rushes / you can't do TOO much in this category before you're flat-out being a dick. I mean, tons of people call my nades spam and im like OKAY BRO.

[Syluxguy28O3]

i find grenade spam dosent really kill alot of peope in ca. its mostly a defencive measure to protect your rear. i like the system on atlanta, where you can only fire 4 grenades at a time. it stops spam, and still gives you tactical options.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Spam kills in CAx at doorways / mound / or anywhere im not-spamming nades

[Syluxguy28O3]

Spam kills in CAx at doorways / mound / or anywhere im not-spamming nades

true. i just dont see it that often.

[Perochi]

I was playing QuakeWorld Clan Arena last night , the server limited grenade launcher ammo to 10. It had seperate ammo from rocket launcher. I think doing this would solve the spaming which I depise. But only when im dodging the spam

[Mindf!3ldzX]

I was playing QuakeWorld Clan Arena last night , the server limited grenade launcher ammo to 10. It had seperate ammo from rocket launcher. I think doing this would solve the spaming which I depise. But only when im dodging the spam

Clan Arena + "QWBunnyHopping" ? Whats different besides dicking the grenade ammo into its own form of ammo ? Are there players there? Is the grass still greener?


/goes kicks rocks

[Perochi]

Well I used ezquake to connect since darkplaces was taking a shit.
But yes 4 different players connected. I only won 1 of 4 games.

[R00k]

Like what was previously mentioned, in CAx I used a variable of things that stretched the limits while maintaining correct gameplay.

a.> 2 rox per shot for the gl

b.> grenades can be affected by splash damaged, bouncing the spam a diff direction.

c.> grenade spam protection, where each shot reduces a counter, but each second it increases the counter. Obv, the shots take away from the counter faster than the increase.

Oddly enough, Ive modified my own sound files, and replaced the grenade shot with the sound clip from Monty Python's "SPAM!"

... kinda of failed in a CA implement attempt because smart players would fire a grenade, then shoot RL, and then back to grenade.

Instead of a spam protection, where u actually lose the gun, the attack_finished of the weapon could be exponentially increased/decrease so that the more u spam in a row the slower the reload time. Each weapon would have it's own attack_finished independently (ex: gl_attack_finished), so switching guns doesn't reset the delay of the gl.

I'm sure people will bitch about change, but the majority would bitch about some1 sitting at RA and spamming 'nades.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

wait,I just realized how annoying it might get to hear "SPAM!" all the time. LOL
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE[/ame]