The Undergate

[paker]

I'm going to guess you are using JoeQuake 0.15, since the Undergate requires a gamedir, you must do cvar_savevars 1 a single time because JoeQuake does not, by default, save settings.

(I think JoeQuake's lack of saving settings by default is a bad thing, numerous players have been puzzled by the bizarre behavior.)

iI tried Darkside and it wouldn't save, JoeQuake won't save, FritzQuake won't let me set the mouse to free look, and WinQuake won't let me set mouse freelook.
In "normal" Quake I don't have a problem with JoeQuake saving settings.

[Baker]

DarkPlaces saves my config if I use it with the Undergate



The Undergate is a map with a small QuakeC modification, QuakeC is not an engine modification and cannot affect the behavior of the DarkPlaces/JoeQuake/FitzQuake, etc.

FitzQuake doesn't have a freelook cvar or have mouse look in Options, I feel engines that don't have mouselook in the menu aren't user friendly but otherwise FitzQuake is pretty solid for single player.

With FitzQuake or Enhanced GL Quake, you would have to type +mlook in the console everytime ... admittedly this is not userfriendly, but I'm not an engine author.

JoeQuake requires typing cvar_savevars 1 in the console for a game that uses a gamedir, otherwise it will not save settings from session to session. This is a characteristic of JoeQuake, not the Undergate.

The Undergate uses a gamedir, so without typing cvar_savevars 1 in the JoeQuake console (you only have to do this once, then it saves from that point forward) it won't save settings to config.cfg.

These issues you describe are weaknesses in the Quake engines/clients. You could provide the engine author's feedback and see if they can make their engines more user-friendly in the subsequent releases (if you check again, you will see that DarkPlaces does save the config.cfg as it should).

[Lardarse]

JoeQuake not saving cvars was a feature request by the speedrunning community. It's a pain in the ass...

Different engines have different names for the mouselook cvar. I remember discussing this with Entar a while ago.

Putting +mlook in autoexec.cfg will prevent the need for having to type it in all of the time.

Time for me to go test my work... and to find out just how much Baker messed up the QuakeC...

[Baker]

JoeQuake not saving cvars was a feature request by the speedrunning community. It's a pain in the ass...

Amen!

The reason JoeQuake doesn't save the cvars by default for the speedrunning community is that JoeQuake saves *all* cvars including deathmatch, coop, skill, samelevel and such which has it's advantages but isn't standard and can potentially mess up speedrunning.

It would be better if JoeQuake had a cvar to save only the typical cvars and had that on by default.

Different engines have different names for the mouselook cvar. I remember discussing this with Entar a while ago.

The freelook cvar is what Quake 2 and Quake 3 use. It is what EVERY engine should use for the mouselook variable ... FuhQuake uses it, DarkPlaces uses it, JoeQuake uses it.

Qrack uses m_look {0,1} which isn't the same as the other engines. FitzQuake ... I think ... actually saves the +mlook in the config.

Argh!

Where is the Quake Standards Group??? Hehe

Putting +mlook in autoexec.cfg will prevent the need for having to type it in all of the time.

Bleh!

Take the average person ... have them load up an engine.

It should work out of the BOX and with no need for a manual.

Brightness controls and mouse look are the first things any normal player expects to find in Options.

Most people do not play quake because it isn't user-friendly. My friends say, "FUCK THIS, Its too hard to set up." Then I tell them to go to Quakeone.com and make a post about their problems. They just say, "nah.. I'd rather play diablo, this game sucks anyway"

[Lardarse]

Brightness controls and mouse look are the first things any normal player expects to find in Options.

Ditto screen resizing, but only 1 or 2 engines support it...

[Baker]

I almost included that one. I started thinking about the command line and hate the fact that every Quake ideally needs one.

DarkPlaces and FitzQuake have that feature and I think it is very user-friendly.

How does DarkPlaces handle memory management? Does it still need -mem 32 or does it have some other method of handling memory management.

I still have to use -dinput (no aspect ratio on mouse) and -sndrate 11025 (forces Quake default sound, it is a little "crisp" without that for me) with DarkPlaces for what I consider the ideal settings, but that's just me.

[Lardarse]

Memory management is dynamically. There's no hunkmegs or heapsize cvar, and no requirement for a -mem or -winmem or -heapsize setting.

And teh FitzQuake way of doing it is a little less user-friendly, because it starts up in the default resolution first, then switches to the saved setting. At least it lets me choose my own refresh rate, unlike some engines...

[scar3crow]

I like how DP will run mods where the modder didnt properly precache in their code, instead of crashing it just bprints "Caching progs/x.mdl - Fix your code!!!"

That warning is even better when Im playing something of LordHavoc's =)

[Lardarse]

Another thought for next release:

alias startmap_sp "map undergate"

Will only work in DP. Guess what it does

[Legend]

Does undergate only work with the maps included? Or can it be used with other maps and mods someone already has? Is there a download that doesn't include the maps?

[Canadian*Sniper]

You'd have to customize the undergate map for the maps you want it to link to for that.

[Baker]

Does undergate only work with the maps included? Or can it be used with other maps and mods someone already has? Is there a download that doesn't include the maps?

The Undergate only works with the maps included.

(It isn't strictly possible to build a map that detects what maps and mods you have, although something like that would be cool -- at least it isn't possible with QuakeC.)

[Bauul]

Hello all !
I'm french, sorry for my poor language :p
Thank you for the Undergate, I play only this when I don't play original Quake or few Mission packs !
But I have two problems : for Quake Condensed and Garrison
I can only play the first map of Quake Condensed : when I find the exit I'm redirected to the Undergate.
And for Garrison, I have only the shotgun in all map, but I find ammunition for Nailgun and Grenade launcher (and this is challenging for kill five fiend and one shambler with the axe in a room ^^')...
Thanks for your help, this pack rule !

[Baker]

Hello all !
I'm french, sorry for my poor language :p
Thank you for the Undergate, I play only this when I don't play original Quake or few Mission packs !
But I have two problems : for Quake Condensed and Garrison
I can only play the first map of Quake Condensed : when I find the exit I'm redirected to the Undergate.
And for Garrison, I have only the shotgun in all map, but I find ammunition for Nailgun and Grenade launcher (and this is challenging for kill five fiend and one shambler with the axe in a room ^^')...
Thanks for your help, this pack rule !

I just now noticed this post --- sorry. I missed a few days of forum activity and this slipped by my notice.

Yeah, I noticed the Quake Condensed issue. I will correct this the next time I play around with it.

Also -- that Garrison map ... I've played it and, in fact, it has no weapons in the whole map -- I opened the map file to examine the entities after discovering the same thing you did and apparently that is how the map was made (I didn't have time to play test all 104 maps).

The Garrison map, unless there is a different version -- is rather deficient in that regard and it is odd the author did not put any weapons in the map.

I tried to finish it a few times -- with only the shotgun, of course since no other weapons exist -- and .... well, I couldn't.

[Spirit]

What Garrison is it? I think there are 2 or 3 maps with that name.