Full version of "The Dismal Obliette"?

[LambentHammerBurst]

EntEd is pretty useful as you can open the BSP up, edit the entities and save - no need for a .ent file - so it makes your entity edits universal (don't need a engine to support the .ent files although it's standard now).

BSP Headquarters - Downloads
Get it here, and read the info on it for "important info" as without that, you can't open bsp (just maps)

[MH]

Out of curiosity, why is this out of your comfort zone? I hacked the .ENT files of around 40-50 maps while doing waypoints for Frikbots, and all of them always came out exactly as I intended. You can tweak just about anything using the .ENT file, minus the BSP info itself. Modifying the .ent seems to be exactly the same as going into a map editor and "officially" doing it.

Bolded bit - precisely why it's outside my comfort zone. I'm not a mapper and I've established to my own satisfaction on plenty of occasions that I have no talent for mapping. Believe me - loading these two in a map editor and joining them was a terrifying experience for me.

If I started hacking entities we'd have smoke pouring out of the building and children running screaming onto the street within 5 minutes. Guarantee you.

[LambentHammerBurst]

Well saying no talent for mapping is a bit of a exaggeration. May not be experienced enough - but I tried doing this in the past and FAILED BADLY. I did the the whole holes in the wall (bsp leaks) and god forbid I could figure out how to fix it lol.

I do hope you didn't mind my edit. My edit made it match the pre-release version of the map in DM - just yours has the lift which does up to the main area - which Romero added AFTER the pre-release was out it seems (as it's absent completely in Pre-Release). The only change I did aside from making it match the pre-release was removing the need to shoot that button to open the gate (as like I said, once it was open - it was open forever - so why even have the button and it was needed to be open to get to the main area - if you exclude the lift)

If you want to keep your version - so in DM you don't have the glitch (player spawning in old area and cannot get to the main) I mentioned - I'd remove the spawn in the "lost entrance" area - so when you spawn there. You're not trapped. The issue can still happen though as one can rocket jump through it. A "better" fix would be to put the closed door that the original map had at the start (where you merged the 2 maps) and make it only appear in DM using the "spawnflags 2048". So then in DM the map will be identical to the version of the map shipped with Q1 in DM but would be full in SP.

[MH]

You're edit's OK.

I think that if we were going to do a "community version" of this map that would be recommended to replace the one that comes with Quake (jn a hypothetical pak2.pak, for example) it should have as few changes from the originals as possible. But doing something for fun is cool.

[LambentHammerBurst]

Yeah the "Lost Entrance" changes the whole dynamic in DM. It becomes a large map that needs at least 2 more people than the "default".
I tried a 4 player deathmatch on ours and that's how I discovered the issue of that barrier. On my second death - I spawned below and then when I went up it was:
Quad Damage right in front of me, oh yeah!
Turned to ah shit! As I got the quad but had no way to get to the other players. I only had a shotgun and nailgun. Could jump over or rocket jump (which would also be bad due to quad lol).

However my edit fixed that issue. The removal for the shooting of button was for flow. A issue I did notice after I removed it was if one spawned in the main area and went down to the entrance - he wouldn't be able to get past the gate without jumping into the water. So that changes the flow quite a bit too. So that would of been a needed fix eventually too.

However this map has completely changed from the retail in the sense of DM. That extra area changes the map drastically. It's actually better in Team DM - did a 2 vs 2 AND it would actually make a decent CTF map too with some entity edits for weapons - to balance it - as the "Lost Entrance" area ONLY has a single weapon - nailgun.
I don't know all the spawnflag options - but putting the "gate" that you removed to merge the 2 maps together back BUT ONLY in DM would make it "classic" again - then in CTF and Team DM - it's gone again. That would be the ideal method in my opinion.
I do also feel the entrance area at least needs a gun or 2 more in there. It's a "dead area". If you spawned in the main area - you had no reason to go down there. I did put the Rocket Launcher where I said before and it's great there along with the Large Rocket in the SP Quad area. Reason for was a great weapon down there, but getting it was a bitch - even with 4 people lol. When you went to get it, you had to go through the ENTIRE water area to get out again - as it was at the end AND all the platforms were too high to RJump out of there. The Super Shotty was good in concept, but in that area it was useless - the big open areas made caused it - but that's only if they lingered in that area. A Strategy if you spawned there was grab the ssg and rush to the main area.


For the fewest changes. It's hard to find that balance. In SP - it's perfect.
DM is where we have to come with what way it needs to head.
As stated before, having the old area accessible makes it a bigger map and changes the feel. However it matches the original design before Romero had to cut it. If kept, it needs the RL from my testing. The SSG - can go IF the 2nd spawn I mentioned is cut. If it is kept - it's needed. Reason is that area is a dead zone. Has lots of ammo, but to get it all you have to go into the water and it takes a fair amount of time. So the reward for going down there is kinda nulled by the time it takes to reap the benefits. Adding the RL and SSG give the benefits and also adds Deathmatching down there. Have nails flying everywhere, a couple rockets and some pellets. Presently it's Nails flying at the entrance exit - as if you're down there - you want out.
The other sense is going for the Retail Quake feel and that'd be simply re-adding that entrance door that was in the retail version and having it appear in only DM. This makes it identical to the Retail map in Deathmatch.

[LambentHammerBurst]

I asked inkub0 if he could do some RTLights, said he may do it
He has uncomparable experience doing RTLights than I (this was my first and only) - he just released the campaign for MP2

[inkub0]

my experience *is not* uncomparable, but i worked as photographer assistant for 2 years =)

i'm working on it

[LambentHammerBurst]

And your work is great. Check your PM. I looked at them and fixed one lighting bug which caused a big black line on a wall if you were using standard id1 progs.dat (if you used a custom model or Seven's mod it was fixed).

Shots of his lights

[Spinvis]

I tested it quickly yesterday, the map MH put up, and its really cool, a great new beginning of the map, i really like it how you start out at the bottom of a dungeon/pit and work your way up over narrow staircases and bridges, great feeling! I vispatched the map MH put on here and it looks great with transparent water in Darkplaces.

Anyway is there gonna be a "final" version of this map released (fixed and touched up even further) with the latest rtlights, lits, and dlits?

[LambentHammerBurst]

inkub0 sent me his RTLights, added 2 more lights and then fixed one bug.
I will upload and post it once I have access to my main PC.

The version I have however opens the lost entrance in DM. To close it - I'd need MH's source. Opened it due to the issue I mentioned a few times.
I will send you inkub0's RTLights and lits MH did - vispatch the edit I did and I believe that would be the closest to "final". Mine doesn't touch SP but just fixed DM on the map.

[MH]

I didn't include the source in the distribution because it's already available in a combination of the e2m10 release and the ID1 map sources GPL release. I reckoned that if I could do it then anyone could!

Here you go: e2m6-full-mh.zip

[LambentHammerBurst]

lol nope
I tried it a year or so back before I joined here - failed badly lmao. BSP hole after hole. Tried again about a month before posting this thread - same thing

TY for the map source

[inkub0]

sorry, i noticed that black line after i sent you the file

so, i can host the file on my webspace, what is the final link?

[LambentHammerBurst]

Inkub0 - what's your email. I will send you the updated map (more edits that are DM only) and so you can Vis it too

[Edit]
Inkub0 - check your hotmail.it email - just vis the map and upload

[inkub0]

sry i forgot to VIS the map !
(and i dont know if i have the VISpatch on my hd )