"SynQ": Why the future won't resemble the past

[Baker]

Baker, is everything from shareware quake freegame to use? What are the limitations on the textures/models you can use, ie, are the textures/models from the retexuring project available to use?

1. Shareware can't be used

None of the shareware models, sounds or textures can be used. Those belong to id Software and have not been released under the GPL like the engine and map sources have been.

2. Quake Retexturing Project can't be used

a. According to Up2nogood[Rock], all of the textures for the QRP were made from scratch. However, a number of them have a very strong visual resemblance to the original textures.

b. Additionally, although a somewhat trivial point -- the very liberal terms of use of the QRP textures -- even if they could be used -- require attributing credit to the project. This requirement, I have read at Inside3D, is not compatible with the GPL 2.0 license agreement. Even if they were to change the "requiring credit" part -- which they easily could, that doesn't change the problem in 2a.

3. Quake Remodelling Project

The Quake Remodelling Project really doesn't have the same problems as the Quake Retexturing Project does. The models -- most of them -- don't look the same as the Quake ones, and -- like the Quake Retexturing Project -- were created from scratch. The Quake Remodelling Project does have the #2b. credit attribution incompatibility.

So it is possible that some of models for the Quake Remodelling Project could be used as an add-on to this and -- if the "credit attribution" part were to change, could plausibly be used in the project.

While some of these things may seem trivial -- like the GPL 2.0 license incompatibilities, the GPL is a truely beautiful thing once you look at the details and understand the rights/obligations and an important goal of this project is to keep everything in the core GPL 2.0.

[Lerster]

looks nifty, now i'll never have to hunt for my quake on a cd again!

cool.

[sassa]

great work!!

[sassa]

ps. papasmurf from sweden?

[PapaSmurf]

PapaSmurf from washington (the state).

[Mindf!3ldzX]

If you run it in DarkPlaces, it does.
To my understanding, this isn't an engine, it's a pack of maps, textures, etc. so it can be run in any Quake engine that supports the things it chooses to include (this may include md3 models, hi-res textures, etc).

This completely alienates any older engines besides DP,OQ,Qrack,and maybe others like Vr2/Tenabrae..which is in my eyes,forcing a new standard on anyone who's previously played Quake.Snazzy graphics and Snazzy Quake engines,are nice for those who enjoy them. Myself personally,I'll never use this software, I prefer old school Q1 look/feel,and since I wont be able to use ProQuake using this maps/models/paks/etc sets, I'll never bother with it,that is,unless a day comes when I cant find Q1 full for download on the internet,and I cant find ProQuake 3.50 for download on the internet, which is highly unlikely. When people want to play Quake for nostalgiac purposes,they want to play it as it was remembered as closely as possible,and eliminating older style engines like ProQuake Tomaz MH and other obsured engines,might detur people from accepting this "Free Quake" concoction,and resort to the more obvious choice for those wanting nostalgiac gaming of Quake1, illegal downloads of Q1.

This idea,for a "New to Quake" gamer stand point,is a great idea though. Bring on the newb's! haha~Kudo's to Baker.


PS : Will GLPro+ aka Xquake be supported?It had support for 24bit high res textures, but im not sure about other stuff...I still know where to download it,even though JPG through a tempertantrum because Trujen wanted his work to stay Xquake intact,and not show up in "this engine" and "that engine" , making his engine less than favorable choiced.He simply should have kept his engine offline until he was done with it,problem solved

[Baker]

That's more of a statement that none of the newer engines are currently better than ProQuake in all ways, top to bottom, than it is about this. I don't disagree.

Start a new thread for that!

[Entar]

This completely alienates any older engines besides DP,OQ,Qrack,and maybe others like Vr2/Tenabrae..which is in my eyes,forcing a new standard on anyone who's previously played Quake.

Well, I don't think this pack, in its final state, will force people to use any particular engine.

/me keeps waiting for the pack

[Baker]

Well, I don't think this pack, in its final state, will force people to use any particular engine.

It won't - it will be compatible with every engine. But to use it as a stand-alone total conversion, the engine will have to support running total conversions without owning registered Quake (the pop.lmp check).

ProQuake and some older engines will be disqualified as a result.

[scar3crow]

which is in my eyes,forcing a new standard on anyone who's previously played Quake.

As opposed to people who just download a random engine, try to connect to a server and find out its "cheat-free"? Id rather run the risk of people having to disable a few things for better frame rate than being told they cant play on that server at all. Thats forcing a standard.

Myself personally,I'll never use this software, I prefer old school Q1 look/feel,and since I wont be able to use ProQuake using this maps/models/paks/etc sets, I'll never bother with it,

I dont use ProQuake because it feels like the Quake player is stuttering in movement. Quakes sense of solidly moving, which sets it apart from other technologies, matters more than graphics any day.

When people want to play Quake for nostalgiac purposes,they want to play it as it was remembered as closely as possible,and eliminating older style engines like ProQuake Tomaz MH and other obsured engines,might detur people from accepting this "Free Quake" concoction,and resort to the more obvious choice for those wanting nostalgiac gaming of Quake1, illegal downloads of Q1.

If I was returning to Quake and encountered ProQuake I would go "What the hell is up with the movement?". If I was returning to Quake and wanted that strict nostalgia feeling and loaded TomazQuake I would say "What the hell is with these particles?" To be honest, screw the nostalgic player who is inexplicably trying NEW engines. They have dosbox, they have winquake, if their card is old enough, they can use glquake. I however welcome the returning player who can understand that things have changed, and wants to enjoy the gameplay once more.

BTW, Qrack and Vr2 are not older engines, theyre still being coded. If this breaks support and they want support, they can add it, Entar and r00k are both capable coders. But then again, neither of those engines adhere to the strict standard you seem to hold to Quake - though on the other side, their movement doesnt feel terrible. I cant comment on OQ, I know TQ isnt updated as Tomaz is doing other things now, and Tenebrae alienated itself a long long time ago.

Sorry, after seeing that post so many times, I had to respond.

[Baker]

Anyone wanting nostalgia won't be happy with this at all. This is going to have far more resemblance to Quake 3 when it is done than to Quake.

And -- I don't care! This project has nothing to do with appeasing the thimbleful of players wanting to live in 1996 and everything to do with making the game look worth playing to someone who has never played it.

70,000 players play Counterstrike every day and who knows how many play WoW. Those players wouldn't touch Quake on looks alone.

The game play in Quake is outstanding, but even with the best engine/particle effects/textures out there, looks very poor in comparison to any other game.

That can be changed.

[scar3crow]

From what I can gather, Baker is trying to give a demo of Quake via its multiplayer gameplay and doing so without using any of the id intellectual property.

Baker - Just dont follow Q3A when it comes to the shaft, I still think that model looks like placeholder art, and it surprised me that id used it on the commercial release.

[Phenom]

I'd like being able to choose your player's model in Quake 1. I've always wanted to run around Quake1 as Mario =]

If it takes Quake being changed in to a completely different suit then I'm all for it. I already own the official Quake 1 and have played it since 1996, if I choose to I will play Quake 1 from ID Software or I can play the free version "SynQ" made by Baker and a few others(I dunno who's all working on this).

Trying to see SynQ from the eyes of someone whose never played Quake 1 but is interested. I would much rather play Q3 Because Quake 1 is ugly.


If Baker is going to make a Free version that people will enjoy playing it would have to be somewhat on par with today's relative PC game graphics (Quake3 etc) if new comers in forms of masses will enjoy it. People coming from HL2, Quake 4, Doom 3 expect at least decent graphics. Quake 1 graphics are not only ugly, but were made in 1996. SynQ needs to have something that will make people want to download Quake 1 legally for free instead of trying to download it illegally or just not playing it at all.

[Baker]

Anyone making the argument that Quake's graphics are great or that Quake's graphics would make someone want to play it is drinking some weird koolaid.

I thought Quake looked terrible back in 1999 when I first played it online, but the gameplay was outstanding. I only even tried Quake because Half-Life -- which looked like a dream -- had such disappointing multiplayer.

[Phenom]

I agree with scar3crow once again.

Quake3's lightning gun ruined Quake3 for me.

First 10 minutes of play on Q3 and I finally find a LG, became disappointed with its usability. never really liked Q3 the same way since.. it feels like the rich snobby cousin of the Quake family.