"SynQ": Why the future won't resemble the past

[Baker]

A large amount of work was done on the sounds lately and some more work needs to be done, but I just did a walkthru of a few maps in SynQ and for the first time the sounds didn't completely ruin everything.

Alc, who has been working on this project mostly on the sounds angle, did a lot of work on the ambient sounds ... which is one of the tougher tasks with the sounds ... and combined with some substitutions I made for some sounds that just weren't right -- this had made some big strides forward.

Consequentially, Alc has donated a massive amount of online storage space to the project so it is very likely that in the near future there can be some near lossless video online of this.

SynQ *will* take a long time to reach it's final state -- which is or more or less a completely rebuilt from top to bottom Quake-like game (with probably some sort of very unauthentic single player -- Lardarse has some interesting ideas on that) with an unfaithful take on things that optionally uses new engine features where possible with full backwards Quake compatibility.

But SynQ will *not* take a long time to reach a state where the releases are good enough that you might just prefer to use it over the real deal for online play.

[mithril]

that's a good point...
just as a devil's advocate, if i'm using a diagram from another journal article (i do research) in an article of mine... even if i redraw it from scratch (with is often), and change things in the diagram, i am required to cite the original article...
ie. (source: Modified from Smith et al., 1999).

Well, this depends. If the figure/diagram was generated from a mathematical equation, you can certainly plot the output of the same equation without giving credit, since mathematics is fundamentally "free" in that no-one can "own" a mathematical formula.

If the diagram is more like a picture/artwork drawn by the author, then certainly copyright laws will apply if you try to verbatim copy it. However, I *think* that if you redraw the thing yourself from scratch it may be ok. For example, if I take a famous painting and repaint it on my own canvas so that it looks similar to the original and then sell it, I haven't broken any laws, provided I don't try to pass it off as an original (ie: I would need to inform the buyer that I was the one who painted it).

Going back to software - this really falls into the mathematics example above. A software algorithm is inherently mathematical in nature, and therefore no-one can really "own" a software algorithm. Software patents of course do try to exert ownership over an algorithm, which is why there is so much controversy surrounding them these days. But assuming ID doesn't have a patent over the way the textures were generated, then the only other issue is copyright. Software Copyright tells us we cannot take the original texture source code and just use it, but it also does not prevent us from writing our own source code to do the same thing. It is the difference between a software algorithm and a software implementation. An implementation can be copyrighted, but an algorithm cannot. And if we do make an alternate implementation, then there is no law which says we have to give credit to anyone. Similarly to your research example, I don't believe there is any legal requirement which says you have to credit the original figure, but I think in journals this is done out of general courtesy.

[Entar]

with probably some sort of very unauthentic single player

I'm actually more interested in the single player side of it anyway, so that people can make their mods standalone right out of the box. Of course, the multiplayer maps being free to use helps too, for any multiplayer mods.

Anyway, hurry up and get it at least fully playable, even if it doesn't look all that great for starters.

[Baker]

It's closing in really quickly.

I played against the Frikbots using 100% SynQ plus regular Quake sounds. It was fine.

Then decided to quick being a chicken and removed the id sounds out the folder and discovered I didn't really notice one way or another. Don't get me wrong, the sounds are different -- but they aren't annoying anymore and after 3 minutes of play, you don't even think about it.

And yes, very initially I was thinking multiplayer only but I'll use Frag.Machine's suggestion and have QuakeC control the single player, keeping everything compatible for modding purposes.

The RQuake mod translates Hipnotic monsters into standard Quake monsters so maps like A Desert Dusk can be played. I think that concept will be used in this. Or perhaps use Lardarse's "Enforcer flags" idea where Concentric Devastation had only monster_enforcer but used a flag to distinguish between regular, mega (blue enforcers) and enforcer commanders (red).

Although I am not quite sure the best approach to take, I'm going to try to make this modder friendly.

[Entar]

I'd recommend that you keep it compatible with a regular, original-Quake, progs.dat, even if you decide to include another one with your releases. This way you can be sure that modders won't have a problem with any of the content.

Man, this is going to be cool, so long as it's legal and all that. On that note, to avoid any disappointing mishaps, you might just send off a copy to Todd Hollenshead for him to dig through and try out. Then he can just email you back and tell you if he thinks any content is illegal or otherwise unacceptable.

Anyway, it's looking good (for the most part), so keep it up.

[Baker]

Acid indigestion: The weapon models!



Neogenisis made some funky weapons and they do look interesting in Tenebrae and are awesome in their own brutality style with real time lighting.

But the reality is, except for the shotgun, while the models look good in real time lighting, without real time lighting and with non-faithful 24-bit textures they look out of place.

So the question in my head was this: Are the models impossible to make fit with the feel of this or is it hopeless?

Most of the models themselves are excellent. But with a model, the skinning is the hard part to do -- as far as I can tell -- because I see modders occasionally upload a grab bag of unused stuff and it often includes unskinned models.

The Neogenisis Rocket Launcher model itself and the Supershotgun model are pretty fantastic, but they just don't look that good from a view weapon point of view.

I messed around and messed and messed and messed around trying to figure out how to make the Rocket Launcher look good.



No



And after about 55 experiments I finally settled on something that I didn't like, but you can't work on something forever.





I don't like it, it has the feel of an aluminum baseball bat, but it does look a little more conventional than it did before.

And the following can't be GPL'd, but I messed with the player skin some more. I think the player skin will be an optional non-GPL add-on that will either be an option in the install or a separate download.

EVENTUALLY, I think the player will get reskinned (the Open Quartz player model is REALLY terrific) and then there will be a good GPL player skin that can be in the core of SynQ, but in the interest in getting this moving along as quickly as possible.

I'd contact Alan Yen if I could and try to get permission to include the player skin in a GPL distribution, but I have not the slightest clue on how I would track him down to even ask him.



The rocket box skin I had made before really sucked; I borrowed a rocket logo from Open Arena (GPL) and slapped it on a box for now.

[Alc]

Dunno. I'm up for the new level textures, but somehow I just want classic-looking weapons and ammo boxes. The bright colours don't fit in.

[Baker]

These are a little too radical, even for me.

Eventually, these will be revisited.

/Hmmmm .... this gives me an idea. Most of the look and feel is in the external textures and there could be multiple options for this.

I've already made something like this, but never put the finishing touches on it:



Of course the above example, those wouldn't be the options, but SynQ could have 2 or 3 different sets of models/boxes/ammo; a faithfulish one, a non-faithful one and maybe some other category.

[Lardarse]

I like the new rocket box. I have some thoughts, though: It would be nice if the ammo boxes (and health) were easilt identifiable by making each ammo type a different colour. Red for rockets, obviously, then blue cells, yello shells, green nails, and white health. That would probably be easier to play with...

[Baker]

That is a good idea.

[Baker]

Neogenisis's armor looks better than the above, but I figured I'd reskin the OpenQuartz armor for an optional alternate look.





A rework of the skin of the Neogenisis supershotgun model. Below, the old SSG look (both will be included, I think a semi-faithful set of weapons/boxes and a non-faithful set will both be included as options and maybe more than just those as options).

[Alc]

I think a semi-faithful set of weapons/boxes and a non-faithful set will both be included as options and maybe more than just those as options

That's an excellent idea.

[Baker]

Armor Update:

Green armor ... looks crappy because green armor is "ok", but you don't get excited about it:



Yellow armor ... yeah you want the yellow armor so it looks more interesting:



"Red armor" ... the armor you'll shoot rockets at it just to protect it because it means everything and you can rule the universe if you get it (assuming you have a good weapon). I might put some red on it, change the color or just leave it as is ... haven't decided:

[Alc]

Hey! That red armour isn't

[Entar]

In the spirit of grabbing GPL textures for other projects...

I was editing my deathmatch map that comes with vr2mod today, and I decided to try grabbing some Nexuiz textures and renaming them in my textures folder so that they would replace the old ones in-game; and just for the fun of it, I got some of the viewmodels too... Then I ran it with vr2mod in Vr2 and here's what I got: