"SynQ": Why the future won't resemble the past

[Baker]

Ammo/health boxes "fixed". Somehow my .map files lost their lighting in wc16 the last time I compiled. DarkPlaces made them fullbright, but other engines rendered them as all black.

[Baker]

More progress:

1. aguirRe fixed the g_shot.mdl for me and now everything functions in software renderer engines. That is a big headache lifted.

2. "Total Channels == Max Channels" issue ... one or more of the ambient sounds is causing this. Should be easy to fix either by converting the audio or just replacing any of the offending ambients.

[Falzzi]

Mind removing the knockback from the rocket launcher, its f*cking annoying Otherwise this release was pretty good, apart from the horrible models and sounds

You should include plenty of readmes, including "How to make my quake smooth", "How to use custom textures" etc. since its a thing for new quakers.

[Baker]

Mind removing the knockback from the rocket launcher, its f*cking annoying Otherwise this release was pretty good, apart from the horrible models and sounds

Heheh The rocket launcher knockback is a little annoying, isn't it.

Eventually all the weapon models will be replaced, but for now they are in there because they are available for use.

I'll look into removing the knockback.

You should include plenty of readmes, including "How to make my quake smooth", "How to use custom textures" etc. since its a thing for new quakers.

Actually, I plan the opposite. I have a different take on those, I'll explain my thoughts ...

No one uses replacement textures in newer games because they have no desire to; we do that in Quake because the textures in the original game look really bad by 2006 standards. For example, you don't see replacement textures for Unreal, Enemy Territory or Quake 3.

Eventually, everything in this should be of the quality level that you wouldn't have much interest in replacing any of it.

As far as "how to make my Quake smooth", it should not require a readme. If it does, then there is something wrong with this project.

I understand your angle and I agree with the theme of it.

I think one thing that is VERY wrong with Quake is the configuration, it is bullshit. I have seen configs that are literally 500 lines long and read like a computer program. It should work "out-of-the-box" with the default settings and the fact that so few engines do this, honestly, really pisses me off.

There isn't anything about Quake that should make it require reading manuals or documents to play it or opening a config.cfg to set it up; none of the other games I've ever played needed this (except Quake 3).

Quake is mostly grab a gun and shoot. Anything that you need to do should be in options or in the default settings and if it isn't, the engine being used is a failure from an ease of use perspective.

And there shouldn't be very many options (brightness, mouse settings, controls, something simple to change the "effects level"). Most people just want it to work.

This is a large part of the reason that Doom II is a lot more popular than Quake.

[Baker]

Here is a quick experiment of E1M1. There are a lot of faults with it and the outdoors area needs to be changed.

[kaeser]

back from the cottage!

baker, great feedback. i'll definately look into those comments, and i've already picked out some of those textures you've brought to my attn. the poor clipping/centering of the textures is all over the place... not just that mural secret door... eg. the button on the second floor with the squisher-piller is not centered, nor are the lights in the ceiling above the spawning area. yeah, they are annoying.

the key thing that i'm trying to do with the map is to make it look 'lived-in' and when possible, 'utilitarian'... my biggest peeve with metal-walled maps is that they look hygenic and shiny, etc. not a place that ogres would be hanging out for extended periods of time. concrete-maps can look that way too. i really didn't like quake2 because of it's metal textures and bluish palette. i decided i would try to avoid that by using different types of stone/wood, warm colours, and applying petroglyphs/graffiti when possible. i want this map to look like there have been people using it regularly for quite some time.

more to come,

[Baker]

the poor clipping/centering of the textures is all over the place... not just that mural secret door... eg. the button on the second floor with the squisher-piller is not centered, nor are the lights in the ceiling above the spawning area. yeah, they are annoying.

Very true, but try to within the framework of merely retexturing right now. You'll discover those imperfections on every map.

They are fixable, but you'd have to open the map in a map editor and recompile. While that is in the scope of the project and something acceptable to do, I don't want to go there yet because it increases the complexity of the task greatly.

Little things can be adjusted later and really, there are no true limits to alteration of the maps themselves as long as the physical structures remain unchanged.

the key thing that i'm trying to do with the map is to make it look 'lived-in' and when possible, 'utilitarian'... my biggest peeve with metal-walled maps is that they look hygenic and shiny, etc. not a place that ogres would be hanging out for extended periods of time. concrete-maps can look that way too. i really didn't like quake2 because of it's metal textures and bluish palette. i decided i would try to avoid that by using different types of stone/wood, warm colours, and applying petroglyphs/graffiti when possible. i want this map to look like there have been people using it regularly for quite some time.

more to come,

Keep working on it :d I like the direction you are heading.

[Baker]

E1M1 - final (well, phase 1 final)









^^ Why can't Quake have signs on walls? I say it can

[Baker]

Move over Quake guy!! The heros of the new age?

Well, Alan Yen -- the designer of these and other bad ass player skins -- will have the final say on that (if I can track him down!).

But even if I cannot, this is proof positive that the Open Quartz player model can be skinned to be wickedly cool.

He's about 99% compatible with the Quake Guy for skinning purposes.

[Baker]

Another problem eliminated, I ended up asking LordHavoc what I did wrong with the superzoom script for DarkPlaces and it was easily fixed (I just needed to add a couple of spaces).

No more warning messages for that.

I think that's the end of the "bugs" in SynQ.

[Entar]

The other textures look fairly good, really (besides maybe the bland gray texture on the wall there), but can you do something about the water and slime? They're kinda solid colored, and they almost look... cartoony...

EDIT: And what is UP with those teleporter and crate textures??

[Baker]

but can you do something about the water and slime? They're kinda solid colored, and they almost look... cartoony...

EDIT: And what is UP with those teleporter and crate textures??

In due time The teleporter and crate textures were (failed) experiments to inject more color in the map.

The first goal is to get everything functional and the second goal is frequently release updates.

After playing around with E1M1, like every other map, I realize there are a lot of possibilities if the map is opened in a map editor, but I don't want to go there yet.

I am currently working on a replacement texture set for all 564 id Software textures. The main reason is control the file size and for "all engines" backward compatibility (original GLQuake crashes if the same texture names are used in different maps).

Of course, this is going to have all the same flaws that the original (non-faithful) QRP project had -- where the textures do not always look right in a given context.

But that's ok because eventually every single map is going to opened in a map editor and modified to make them more lively, change/adjust/add textures, MAYBE *small* func_illusionaries to give more character to the maps, add color lights, the luma/glow channel textures, etc.

[mithril]

Anyone making the argument that Quake's graphics are great or that Quake's graphics would make someone want to play it is drinking some weird koolaid.

I thought Quake looked terrible back in 1999 when I first played it online, but the gameplay was outstanding. I only even tried Quake because Half-Life -- which looked like a dream -- had such disappointing multiplayer.

Weird, I think the quake1 graphics look great! But then again q1 is the only game I've ever played online =P.

2. Quake Retexturing Project can't be used

a. According to Up2nogood[Rock], all of the textures for the QRP were made from scratch. However, a number of them have a very strong visual resemblance to the original textures.

b. Additionally, although a somewhat trivial point -- the very liberal terms of use of the QRP textures -- even if they could be used -- require attributing credit to the project. This requirement, I have read at Inside3D, is not compatible with the GPL 2.0 license agreement. Even if they were to change the "requiring credit" part -- which they easily could, that doesn't change the problem in 2a.

I'm not sure point 2a is correct - just because the textures made from scratch resemble the original ones doesn't mean you can't GPL them if you want. For example, if I wanted to write from scratch a clone of say, microsoft office, I would be able to put it under the gpl even if it looked similar - as long as its written from scratch with no code from MS they can't do anything about it (neglecting any software patent issues for now). Copyright laws, as I understand them, mostly prevent verbatim copying. Like you can't take the original ID texture source code and use it, but if you come up with an independent code which creates a similar end result theres nothing wrong with that.

[Baker]

Some of the QRP textures look very similar. And, even if they could be used, I think an alternate look and feel would be very refreshing. After 10+ years, I'd like to be looking at something fresher on-screen myself



And

[kaeser]

that's a good point...
just as a devil's advocate, if i'm using a diagram from another journal article (i do research) in an article of mine... even if i redraw it from scratch (with is often), and change things in the diagram, i am required to cite the original article...
ie. (source: Modified from Smith et al., 1999).