RiftQuake

[Dutch]

The only real problem with increasing the rate of fire on the SNG is the firing will no longer correlate with the player_nail firing animation if viewed in DM or coop. Frames are set at 0.1 seconds each, which is what the SNG fires at without modding I believe...this is why my assault rifle has such a slow rate of fire. I originally liked 0.8 seconds per shot. A combination of player think functions may resolve this, I'm going to play around with it some more.

If you want SNG gibbing even with the less damaging SNG shots, you can always add code to the SNG fire function that checks if the player has a quad, then triple the damage done.

EDIT: oops just realized smith just said that lol

[_Smith_]

void() player_nail1 =[$nailatt1, player_nail2 ] {/*func code*/};

Is a shortcut for:

void() player_nail2;
void() player_nail1 =
{
self.frame = $nailatt1;
self.think = player_nail2;
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
/*func code*/
};

So all you have to do, to execute next animation function faster, is to overwrite default self.nextthink inside player_nail1; like this:

void() player_nail1 =[$nailatt1, player_nail2 ] { self.nextthink = time + 0.05; /*func code*/ };

[Dutch]

void() player_nail1 =[$nailatt1, player_nail2 ] {/*func code*/};

Is a shortcut for:

void() player_nail2;
void() player_nail1 =
{
self.frame = $nailatt1;
self.think = player_nail2;
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
/*func code*/
};

Excellent, that's great to know. I didn't know that was shortcut syntax, I had wrongly assumed it was a built-in function or something. I'm still learning a lot. A little re-animating and bypassing the 0.1 nextthink should have me rocking. Thanks smith.

Oh, and on my last post I said 0.8 seconds, I meant to say 0.08 seconds.

[talisa]

eh... id know how to do it, but... i like the SNG how its now,
i dun need to be able to specifically be able to gib monsters with SNG with quad.

think its totally fine if you cant gib monsters anymore with SNG,
and it would be kinda lame if the SNG was suddenly back to slow while you have quad

[Dutch]

Ok y'all, here's a small update on what I'm planning on doing. All of my focus recently has been on the weapons arsenal and how I can enhance it even more. Here's a list of things to do:

* New models that push triangle and texture limits to the max, but are still acceptable for .mdl file format, to ensure vanilla engine compatibility.
* Reloading functions and frames.
* Melee attack for each weapon (Halo style).
* Alt fire for each function. This can also be a functional tool rather than alternative firing. For example, the Shotgun will have a flashlight, the Assault Rifle a laser, and the Scout Rifle a scope, which brings me to...
* Zoom scope using non-extension methods. I'm going to play with this as per Seven's advice. If it gets too hacky and does not "smooth" into the gameplay, I'll remove it.
* Upgraded muzzleflashing.
* Quicker Assault Rifle rate of fire (including some re-animation to compensate).
* Alter the Rift Gun's fire function. I don't like the rapid fire. Rename it the Rift Cannon (or the Rift Launcher...yet to be determined).
* Model and code a Rift Rifle. Fires Rift Cells but in a different flavor
* Weapon drop function for dying players. I don't like the backpack. Upon death, the player's currently equipped weapon will fall to the ground, using avelocity and touch functions for sound / angle fixing once on the ground. Similar to Halo's dropped weapons.
* Weapons will only rotate and hover above ground in DM. For added realism, they will be grounded objects in SP and coop.
* Finish up the ammo box models. I've made a lot of progress in this, sorry for no pics though.
* Re-work the hud (sbar) to comply with faithful engines, all while fitting into the new features. This will take some creativity, as I cannot use csqc like I wanted to. gnounc informed me in another thread that csqc is a no-go for vanilla engines...a lesson learned without learning the hard way lol. Thanks.
* Fast weapon switching (Q3 style) for added realism.
* Add more sounds, and replace a couple I'm not satisfied with.

The intention with all of this is to modernize Quake gameplay in respect to the arsenal without relying on advanced engines, but still trying to maintain the Quake 'feel'. Easier said than done. I can say right now that the best explanation of what I hope to achieve is a functional blend of Halo 1's tactic and Quake's fast-paced action (and Gears of War gore ). While I'm at it, might as well express the fact that I will be basing future level design and horror themes off of a Dead Space influence.

I need another opinion from you guys and gals though. How would you feel about weapon categories? To increase realism, I am playing with the idea of having three weapon categories: light (pistols [yet to be created]), medium (Shotgun, Assault Rifle, Flak Cannon, Rift Rifle), and heavy (Scout Rifle, grenade launcher, rocket launcher, Rift Cannon). The melee for pistols will be a combat knife. The axe will be no more. A player can hold one of each weapon category (three total: a pistol, a medium, and a heavy). They will have to decide what they want to pick up and swap out. Think about it, this is more realistic as hauling around 8 weapons is not even remotely feasible. I'm a hunter, and trekking through the woods with just one rifle is a pain in the ass lol.

Players will have the three weapons in their inventory showing on their person at all times. One will naturally be equipped. Pistols will be holstered on the side, and the two larger weapons strapped to their back. These will be separate of the player model itself, instead spawned accordingly.

Lots and lots of work to do, can't freaking wait to dig into it!

Also guys, let me know if you have ideas that you'd like to see implemented in RiftQuake. If I feel like it would fit in nicely, I'll throw it in.

Feedback on the ideas much appreciated, as always. Thanks guys.

[Seven]

Hello Dutch,

That is a long list and smells like a lot of work
Enjoy your vacation, so that you are fit and continue working with fully loaded batteries.

My suggestion:
Try not to implement all features before releasing a beta or even alpha.
Many times you are blind to some things because you are developing them.
Others, with free minds, will look at some things differently and can give valuable feedback.
That might help to keep your mod on track and improve it.


A personal note:
The thing with the multi weapons is in my personal opinion maybe a double-edged sword.
If you look at (and play) mods with a lot of weapons, you will find that it is more irritating to chose which is the best weapon for the special situation you are in now.
And you know, Quake is fast paced game, so continuesly switiching is somethign that most/some people do not like.
Most people have their favorite weapon anyway and they will use it even in not 100% fitting situations.

The other thing is the ammo: If you create different ammo types for the weapons, you would need to put a LOT of ammo into your maps.
Cause you never know which type the player likes/uses.
It is even difficult for map-creaters to find the balance with Quake�s 4 ammo types.
Imagine how it will be with 8 or more ammo types...
You might end up placing ammo in every corner.
One example is mission pack 2 (rogue), as it brings a lot of new weapons.

But that is just my personal opinion (which is often wrong ).
Maybe I also misunderstood your weapon strategy...



But whatever it is, create your mod as you have it in your mind.
And I am sure you will have many new ideas during your vacation (that is always the case with me). I dont have a laptop/notebook, so I always write small notes on papers wich I bring back home

Enjoy your trip !

Kind regards,
Seven

[MadGypsy]

I think you are too stuck on vanilla engines. Ask yourself - What am I trying to accomplish by keeping everything vanilla?

People like LordHavoc, MH and Spike have practically made a career out of making the engine better. This is because the vanilla engine sucks. Just because you may target (ex) darkplaces, it doesn't mean you have to make your game less authentic. Also, by not using a vanilla engine you can do better than making models that max out the old mdl format. You could not worry about maximums at all and simply make models that you like (in some non mdl format).

I see your enthusiasm and you have already proven that you are very serious about your project but your one oversight is that you seem to be trying to build a mustang out of pinto parts. It gets even sillier when you realize the mustang parts are free.


What if you built a mustang but didn't paint it? It would still be and run like a mustang but it wont look like you just bought it off of the showroom floor.

I don't see the appeal or sense behind using the least versatile methods you can come up with, ie, re: Ask yourself, what am I trying to accomplish by keeping everything vanilla.

If the answer is: Ugly barely customizable HUD, headaches, long way around everything, months of making garbage models and garbage animations to match, the inability to complete your actual vision and a host of other shit that is inherent of 20 year old tech... then you are on the right track.

Your focus should be on how to create your game, not how to shove most of it into old tech.

[golden_boy]

Mad Gypsy: Because "It's not Quake" (TM)

Why Quake modders keep ignoring the great strides taken by the community to extend the engine in the last 15 years is a miracle. It is also a shame because it means that the engine efforts are largely in vain. It almost looks like the engine advancements "don't really count" to some.

Darkplaces and FTE should be used for more than a pretty light show Too few modders make use of the extensions, which is where the real horsepower is hidden and where engines like Fitzquake look incredibly dated in comparison.

We've seen some CSQC projects catch on recently, mostly because it's an easy way towards a pretty GUI. We've seen some play around with FTE's ragdolls because ragdoll is hip. But a) CSQC is so much more than that and b) people really should use the SSQC extensions a lot more.

Quake eats its children.

Let's also just say that a lot of people have forgotten what "mod" used to mean. It does not mean "modifier". It means "modification". The former varies the base game, the latter may deviate from it.

[Dutch]

That is a long list and smells like a lot of work
Enjoy your vacation, so that you are fit and continue working with fully loaded batteries.

Haha once I dig into something I can't stop, I am like that for just about everything! lol. Thank you for the advice on taking short strides. I may end up getting ahead of myself with all this, we will see. It sure is a lot of work, but it at the same time it's fairly enjoyable.

As for the weapon categories, I think I will need to play around with this. It would slow down combat a bit possibly, but would also increase the tactic. I've always liked games that blended the two. I better start thinking about a beta release.

I see your enthusiasm and you have already proven that you are very serious about your project but your one oversight is that you seem to be trying to build a mustang out of pinto parts. It gets even sillier when you realize the mustang parts are free.

LMAO. Great analogy.

Why Quake modders keep ignoring the great strides taken by the community to extend the engine in the last 15 years is a miracle. It is also a shame because it means that the engine efforts are largely in vain. It almost looks like the engine advancements "don't really count" to some.

Do you guys read minds or something? I was asking myself the same question yesterday. I can do so much more with half the BS to deal with in the two advanced engines. I am really glad you two brought this up. I'm a big fan of the features and support offered by DP and FTE. And now that I've been drastically increasing the scope of RiftQuake, trying to stay 'faithful' is becoming silly. Like trying to shove 20 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag, basically. My biggest reason for staying vanilla compliant was basically keeping the old school crowd happy. I didn't want to limit my audience.

I'm tired of dealing with limitations, especially when LordHavoc and Spike have offered a way around them. The mod is going advanced engine, or else I will be fighting and playing around with limitations and I'll never get the project done. If any of you faithful guys were keeping up on the mod, I do apologize. But there are areas of modding I'd like to dig into that a vanilla engine just won't handle.

Your focus should be on how to create your game, not how to shove most of it into old tech.

That right there spoke volumes. I can count on you to make me keep my focus straight. Like I said, all this is still pretty new to me. I feel like a puppy: easily distracted. Lol. I appreciate it bud.

[MadGypsy]

It would take a little extra work (maybe... depending on extensions) but you could make your game run in darkplaces and fte.

@keep on right track

I will always be blatantly honest in my opinion. If that's what you mean then, yeah, I'll keep you on track. I believe in you. I am convinced that you are going to make and finish a game. I also stay current with this thread so, when I write something like my last post, it's because I'm watching the build up of everything.

More than once you have said "...but I just found out vanilla can't do that" and now you're even talking about maxing out the oldest model format on the planet. It's just obvious that vanilla is not designed to support your goals.

[Tea Monster]

My biggest reason for staying vanilla compliant was basically keeping the old school crowd happy.

Honestly, don't bother, at the end of the day, they only want something that is EXACTLY like the original.

If you have a vision of something, you should pursue it to the greatest extent that you can. If you don't, then you are cheating both yourself and your audience.

When they made Quake, they didn't sit there and say "You know, the old school Doomers aren't going to like all these new fangled models. Lets stick with sprites just to keep them happy".

You can't change it at all and keep them happy, you might as well make something the best that you can. That is how Id pursued their ideal back in the day, and I believe you should too.

Just MHO.

[Dutch]

I will always be blatantly honest in my opinion. If that's what you mean then, yeah, I'll keep you on track. I believe in you. I am convinced that you are going to make and finish a game.

That's exactly what i mean, and i appreciate it immensely. Criticism/opinions/advice tell me you guys are interested in what i'm doing here, and i'm not building this game just for me. It would be pointless to do all this if no one else was going to enjoy it. Yes, it's all in good fun, but i try to be a perfectionist in whatever i do.

@Tea Monster: i appreciate your input as well. I you probably nailed it. In all honesty, i probably lost some old-schoolers from the start when i changed the weapons. I do respect old school quake. But i see the potential there is with the combination of quakes simplicity coupled with dp/fte. Unless you have the know how of building a game from the ground up, it seems a modder couldnt ask for more.

Thanks guys. Hopefully some real updates soon.

[MadGypsy]

If you have a vision of something, you should pursue it to the greatest extent that you can. If you don't, then you are cheating both yourself and your audience.

I second that.

Hopefully some real updates soon.

I second that, too.

[Dutch]

Work-in-progress pics of the weapons. So far I have re-modeled the 10-gauge shotgun (now dubbed the "Talon" shotgun) and the Assault Rifle (the "Stinger" rifle). Small tweaks and texturing still need doing. Currently modeling the Flak Cannon.

[gnounc]

Wows. Thats going to look hood in game.
Can't wait to see the textures