Remake Quake Project

[golden_boy]

It's true I substituted wood for the wizmetal in most cases in e1m2. However, wizmetal returns later in the episode, as you go further underground - there is a transition.

It's not really a spoiler, since it's visible in screenshots.

inkub0, there is actually a still better place than q1.com to talk RMQ development. I'll tell you via mail.

It's a really nice experience for us working with engine coders (mh!!), model, texture and skin artists... a much better way to make a Quake mod.

A team is the better way to work, in spite of the little disagreements you're gonna have. RMQ is going since 2007, and it looks like it might actually be finished (gasp) due to many people's contribution.

[LamentConfiguration]

Firstly: this is one of the few times I've actually read a whole 11 page thread instead of scanning/skimming it.

Secondly: This is going to be awesome!

That's all I have to contribute really

L.C.

[R00k]

I seriously will have to upgrade Qrack to support RemakeQuakeProject!
Though, i think i will find myself using it's native client to get the TRUE feel of it! CANT WAIT!!!!

[golden_boy]

Episode 1 has reached 50% layout completion.

From here on, it's a downhill race (for me at least).

RMQ episode 1 status review

Also, let's not descend into a trollfest with this community... let's keep it up, for a better Qture! All members of the community who don't want to go down the way of trolldom should stand up and give the finger to those who are trying to spoil it for us.

Let's please be nice to each other and don't feed the trolls.

[FC Zvyozdochka]

OMG these screenshots are BEAUTIFUL! I want to play this maps right now! e1m2rq screenshots amazed me the most - this is exactly what I always imagined when played original map!
Just one question: in my opinion demo e1m6rq has gameplay closer to those of Q2 or HL (I can't forget that puzzle with grappling hook and cubes in e1m6rq) instead of original brutal bloody Q1 gameplay, which is concentrated on battles. What about the rest of the RMQ maps?

>Also, let's not descend into a trollfest
Do not look at my userpic, okay?

[golden_boy]

Much of RMQ's gameplay is run-and-gun.

5-10% might be puzzles / traps / grappling hook. Hope that puts it into perspective.

You might need to push a cube onto a switch from time to time. The pushing happens a LOT faster now, though (you are stronger). You might also need to go and find a suitable cube sometimes, but while you're doing that, there can be shooting as usual.

The e1m6rq cube puzzle can be bypassed in various ways, rocket jump (or equivalent...) being the most obvious. Grappling will be mostly optional (say, for secrets), but sometimes possibly required. I'll try to provide alternatives though, it was wrong to force it on people so much.

For the most part. ;-) for a smaller part, people are lazy. Bloodshot's demo showed him grappling like a pro just days after the demo came out. So it is learnable.

I really need to make that into a movie, because Bloodshot demonstrated the grapple so well. He also creatively bypassed the block puzzle (via a secret).

There is one more cube puzzle in E.1, but it, too, will be bypass-able. Some people like puzzles more than others.

Some grappling will be removed and wind tunnels etc. put in instead.

[FC Zvyozdochka]

Thank you, golden_boy, that's very interesting!
But I've seen post in your blog, where you said that e1m2 is on holdup due to BSP format limits. What sort of limits did you mentioned? Can they be avoided? And can these limits appear in currently developing or future maps?

[golden_boy]

The limits...

While I was working to finish e1m2rq for QExpo 2011, I ran into the max. clipnodes (64k) when I added a medium-sized (ok. somewhat large) outdoor area. The map has way over 80k clipnodes.

This is something that can happen to all mappers. I didn't see it coming, which might be due to lack of experience with these limits.

It can happen to other maps, although I don't foresee it happening to any other E1 maps (except maybe e1m5rq).

There is a way around it, though.

The reason is that my maps are heavy on brush detail and large open spaces will increase the clipnodes count by a lot. They're not really typical Q1 maps, I guess. I make them much like I would make Doom 3 maps.

I think two other RMQ mappers circumvented the problem by turning stuff into func_walls etc, or offloading geometry into external BSPs which get loaded at runtime, but that's not really practical in this case and there are some drawbacks to it.

Maybe detail brushes will help, once we can have them and if they are properly lit (casting shadows etc).

The problem will go away, though.

[golden_boy]

I just watched 8 demos of peg breaking e1m3rq in 20 different ways. He did everything I didn't plan for players to do. I didn't know my map was so broken...



Man, it's good to have playtesters...

edit: luckily he overlooked some really bad exploits that he could have done, but man... this sure was a lesson I won't forget :-P

[=peg=]

Hehe, I always try to get to seemingly impossible places.. just for the fun of it, and, I like exploring

[golden_boy]

You did great, it was very interesting to see the various little (or big) exploits.

And now I know why today's games are 100% linear... much easier to control and predict the player, very few possible shortcuts, less testing required.

Of course that's not what Quake should be ;-)

[FC Zvyozdochka]

Golden boy, I've seen new variant of "Gloom keep" that you've posted in your blog. Excellent as usual! =D

But still I think about those limits in q1bsp format - maybe it would be better if you choose q3bsp to use? As far as I know this newer format supports more nodes and polygons in the map, it does support higher resolution lightmaps and many "childhood diseases" are cured in q3bsp.

What kind of engine do you use? I know that DP and some others support q3 map format.

[MH]

Q3BSP was considered but rejected because it doesn't properly support animating lightstyles. I know the likes of RTCW/etc have what looks like animating lightstlyes, but they're not really; they're just extra dynamic lights blended over the main scene after everything else is drawn.

Animating lightstyles are an important part of the RMQ experience and atmosphere, and not supporting them properly is a deal breaker.

In order to use Q3BSP one must modify the format in order to support them. Or one could modify Q1BSP to support extended limits. Either way you're needing to modify a BSP format - flip a coin.

HLBSP - it's nice to have RGB lightmaps and different palettes for each texture, but it does absolutely nothing to address the actual limits. Also some legal/licensing issues regarding use of HL tools for producing content that doesn't run with HL.

Q2BSP - built in detail brushes and areaportals, RGB lightmaps, same limits.

This is not something that has been idly or capriciously chosen. This is something that has been thought about, carefully considered, options weighed up, and the right decision for the project made in the end (and with huge reluctance I must add, because nobody on the team is a tools person and this will involve tools work).

The advantage of using a modified Q1BSP is that the .map format can stay exactly the same. What this means for a mapper is that they can keep on using their favourite mapping tool - Radiant, WorldCraft, Thred (!!!), whatever. It doesn't matter. Because the map format stays the same, all you need to do is take a .map and compile it. This is utterly critical from a productivity point of view.

There may well be other solutions that are technically superior, but sometimes you do have to choose something that is technically less than superior because of other more important considerations.

[silverjoel]

Have you considered FBSP? It's the format from the qfusion/warsow engine. It is the Q3BSP with increased lightmap detail and lightstyles.

[MH]

Does it break on the "use the same map format and therefore use the same map editor you've always used" thing?