To answer your question..

[Baker]

Anyone forcing their play on another is wrong. Someone wants to play DM3, fine. They don't, fine.

The whole reason this is an emotional topic is that many of us who helped make Bomber/Rage a successful server liked the server because a lot of maps were played, including DM3.

There needs to a new Bomber server where DM3 is played about half the time along with the other popular custom maps.

[Solecord]

We need a new server - dm3.quakeone.com - that only plays dm3 for those who want that, then other servers can rotate maps

[Phenom]

We need a new server - dm3.quakeone.com - that only plays dm3 for those who want that, then other servers can rotate maps

Theres already a 24/7 DM3 server!
RAGE = DM3

I don't think many people are worried about Rage, it will always be a focal point for CA on DM3.

Baker's idea of a "Bomber" server being made with DM3 mixed in with custom maps would pretty much be a solution to everyone who needs to play DM3 every 10 minutes

My ideal CA setup would be a map rotation that looked something like this

DM3
Sanity
Q1edge
DM2
Croctear1 (=Peg= showed me this map)
Aerowalk
DM6
Aggressor

Probably a couple more to make a solid 10 maps in rotation.

This setup to me would blow a CA = DM3 only server's socks off in not only playability but also in player's attitude and fun factor.

Ever since Bomber.ironrocket.com was up and running the whole map rotation and using custom maps in CA has repelled people with a bad attitude or want to ruin the server's fun. I believe this is dew to taking away the "comfort zone" of the higher skilled players who can only perform well on 1 to 2 maps and offer a chance for other newer players a variety of maps instead of saying "Welcome to Quake Clan Arena, we play DM3 only." even when the server has a map pack download which I find ironic, why pretend to be a server that runs custom maps and make people think they have to download new maps if you don't ever play them? Thats a waist of time if DM3 is being played 99.99% of the week and if you plan on "resurrecting" Quake 1 you can't do it on a single map with a closed mind only worrying about a handful of people you want to make happy.

[Souless]

You could drive away players that have been playing for years and will probably keep playing for years to come or a new person who will probably stop playing after the next "great" FPS, or MMORPG comes out.

[R00k]

I vote for a two map rotation of "start.bsp" and "end.bsp"...

Isn't it odd though, that the most popular multiplayer quake 1 level is called "the abandoned base" ?

[Phenom]

You could drive away players that have been playing for years and will probably keep playing for years to come or a new person who will probably stop playing after the next "great" FPS, or MMORPG comes out.

honestly, I am not concerned about the players who have played for "years and will probably keep playing for years to come" If they can't handle a simple level change then they probably weren't fun to play with in the beginning.

I'm saying that in order to attract new players DM3 can't be the only poster child for CA.

So far Souless, you are the only person who has said "If rage went away from playing mostly DM3 then I would have no reason to play quake anymore." meaning if you can't have DM3 then you don't play Quake, which is fine, you can play Quake however you want, but some of us are looking at Quake 1's future, not its past.

[Souless]

HA... Quake 1's future? Since when has Quake 1 had a future? The only way Quake 1 would have a future is if there is a competitive edge with it. Casual play just won't cut it. Casual players come and go as the wind blows...

[foq]

Come to think of it, I pretty much only play DM3 as well. I never see anyone on Dredd, and I don't like RQ too much. There's usually always someone at rage so I go there for 1 or 2 games and then take off. If rage had a map rotation that would be great.

[Stung]

Scarecrow, you should not diminish "old school quakers" like that
As I am one, and many other good players who played and still play DM3 on a consistent basis.

People can choose to play whatever map they want to play, it doesn't mean they can adapt any less to maps than you can.

Besides most old school quakers consist of DM, 3wave, and CTF players who have come together to play CA because the lack of activity in the other Mods (very unfortunate may I add). Like i said 30-1 hour of DM3 is quick, easy, and leaves the player with options to leave the game or stay to play more.
DO not bash players based on flawed reasons, there is no valid premises to that statement.

New players may feel a comfort zone in DM3, but the admins have to really take the issue into their hands here, and force people to play different maps on Rage and other CA servers, this is the only way expansion and spreading of the game will occur.

Most players who come from other games are used to playing several different maps and will not enjoy the lackluster variety that Quake CA DM3 offers.

So now we have 2 things we need to get rid of as a gaming whole.

1. DM3 - Only
2. Trash talk

15-20 people play regularly. You can claim that to be symptomatic of your 2 given reasons, but for quake the real cause of such is much less insidious: it's just plain old. People who play now aren't playing to experience anything new, that much should be obvious. A strong contingent actually seem to be drug addicted or former addicts who just feed their need for higher levels of stimulation through Quake's ever-changing (yet never changing in any real NEW manner, in the broad sense) fast pace. And apparently feed on the social validation of such addictive behavior.

With respect to your 2nd point, serious online gaming is more of a thing for teenagers and those in their early 20s; yeah there are exceptions to the rule, but expecting any such people to act rationally at that age is like, oh I don't know, keeping Rex Grossman as your quarterback even though he has 1.2 and 0.0 qb-rated games going into the post-season: it's a nice fat recipe for disappointment. Trash talking won't stop, and a certain level of dissonance isn't hardly the end of the world given that we can't murder each other over the internet. In some ways it can be healthy. People take caustic tongues far too seriously, and react very poorly/irrationally to such things. One can only hope they learn to ignore things not founded in reason, and learn to manipulate the angles of such nonsensical banter.

And scarecrow actually tacitly makes an astute point about a certain breed of players who cannot strategically adapt and therefore play CA/DM3 intead of Deathmatch. They do exist whether us 'oldschoolers' exist or not.

[Baker]

With all due respect, you aren't seriously self-deluded to the point of thinking quake can be expanded are you? 15-20 people play regularly. You can claim that to be symptomatic of your 2 given reasons, but for quake the real cause of such is much less insidious: it's just plain old.

I think with great difficulty Quake could be expanded.

The problems are access to the game, quality, the QuakeC, the engines need to be made easier.

I could go into more detail but it would take more effort to illustrate than to actually do it, but if you look into the pattern of projects I have worked on ...

1. ProQuake Launcher
2. SynQ
3. Unofficial ProQuake
4. building an OpenSource CRMOD from RuneQuake
5. urging user friendliness in DarkPlaces/Qrack

... I think it is possible.

I'm not naive, I see the problems. The problem certainly is NOT Quake's gameplay, merely the presentation, access (must be legally freed) and ease-of-use of Quake.

The following movie uses Quake sounds and the Quake player model, but is otherwise SynQ is (the map, the textures) and is legally free. Many of the sounds in SynQ are sucky but DM3 sure as hell isn't and the SynQ player model is awesome and so is the HUD (not pictured).

[Stung]

I edited my message 1400 times to remove its caustic nature and you had to quote the harshest part? =)

Yeah I agree, it can be rejuvenated to a point, but not to CS:S level or anything. I like what you have done.

[Phenom]

Either way, doing anything to help Quake 1 grow is a major + for Quake's community!

I'm just glad to see Steam selling Quake 1

[Baker]

I edited my message 1400 times to remove its caustic nature and you had to quote the harshest part? =)

Sorry, man. I often have edit and edit my posts to tone them down etc so I know the feeling.

Yeah I agree, it can be rejuvenated to a point, but not to CS:S level or anything. I like what you have done.

I don't think Quake needs 70,000 players like CS has.

Quake only needs enough players that someone can play whatever they like, however they like it, most times of day. That would end the arguing over how a particular server is run.

I mean, if there were 3 DM servers -- for instance -- that were busy in the evenings, then they could just play at the one with the best ping. If there were 2 or 3 popular CA servers, no one would need to argue about maps or how a certain server is run.

[Rampage]

15-20 people play regularly. You can claim that to be symptomatic of your 2 given reasons, but for quake the real cause of such is much less insidious: it's just plain old. People who play now aren't playing to experience anything new, that much should be obvious. A strong contingent actually seem to be drug addicted or former addicts who just feed their need for higher levels of stimulation through Quake's ever-changing (yet never changing in any real NEW manner, in the broad sense) fast pace. And apparently feed on the social validation of such addictive behavior.

With respect to your 2nd point, serious online gaming is more of a thing for teenagers and those in their early 20s; yeah there are exceptions to the rule, but expecting any such people to act rationally at that age is like, oh I don't know, keeping Rex Grossman as your quarterback even though he has 1.2 and 0.0 qb-rated games going into the post-season: it's a nice fat recipe for disappointment. Trash talking won't stop, and a certain level of dissonance isn't hardly the end of the world given that we can't murder each other over the internet. In some ways it can be healthy. People take caustic tongues far too seriously, and react very poorly/irrationally to such things. One can only hope they learn to ignore things not founded in reason, and learn to manipulate the angles of such nonsensical banter.

And scarecrow actually tacitly makes an astute point about a certain breed of players who cannot strategically adapt and therefore play CA/DM3 intead of Deathmatch. They do exist whether us 'oldschoolers' exist or not.

Your first point is valid, but you have to consider the 'contingent' is not strong enough. The problem the game is facing is not new players and oldschoolers that are unwilling to adapt and play maps, the server population is just plainly too low. There are people wishing to experience enhanced game play through a broader map range; that is also quite difficult considering all players are stacked on one server playing the same map.

You're right that trash talk is part of the game, and I have endured it for much a large part of my "Quake Career" if you would like to call it that .
However, trash talk should only be taken to a certain extent. The server should not be diminished by trash talk, its a wave that seems to carry on and on throughout each game and unfortunately helps dismantle its reputation rather than help build it. As Phenom said many times the rebuilding efforts are vastly increased, but this is another factor that play a role in helping to destroy the game, not just map changes.

I still believe the game has a lot of life, I play console games with friends mostly and I am uninterested in the new breed of online computer games. I find Quake strategic, simple, fast pace, and action oriented, and instinctively favorable. I was a supporter of playing DM3 only before, but I realize this, to form a group of casual quakers into a more solidified core will require an amicable atmosphere, as well as a diversified map rotation.

[lust7afk4ever]

ramp/stung are right, but a little to late, i think most old or pro players new this like 7 years ago. to late now and plus no one cares really. q1 jsut something to do to kill time or a good laugh. if you want to mix things up play a diff mod like coop. or i recommend another game like cs:s